Projects National Dex Ubers Teambuilding Competition [On Haitus Offensive Ho-Oh sumbissions still open]

bumboclaat · Dec 19, 2023

Approved by R8

NATIONAL DEX UBERS TEAMBUILDING COMPETITION :ho-oh:

Artwork by hexagonereal

Welcome to National Dex Ubers Teambuilding Competition! In this project, a Pokemon (or set) will be presented for you to build a team around each week and then submit. This will then be taken into voting. The winner is the team with the most votes!

Rules:

Entry submission: Post team in the thread itself with import and explanation in hide tags. Please, when you are submitting a team, try not to slash movesets / items in the importable. The finished product should be the build you are most confident in. It is fine to do minor set changes throughout the week, but if you want to give an option for one of your Pokemon, note it in the Explanation instead. Make sure the team you post are according to the Pokémon, Core or Theme of the Week: or else you’ll obviously get disqualified. Joke teams will also be disqualified. If you'd like to submit an idea for a Theme, don't be afraid to PM bumboclaat, Runo, or ANinjaDude through Smogon.
Disputes / Copying: Obviously, there is potential for disputes over copying or people making similar entries. In general, if your team entry has the same cores of Pokémon and similar move sets to an earlier entry, it will be disqualified. If anyone tries to abuse this by reserving an early post in the thread for their entry, please bring it to my attention and they'll be disqualified. If you are caught doing this there is a high possibility you will not be allowed to post in the building stage for an indefinite amount of time.
Discussion and team changes: One part of the process is to have discussion about the teams and the core. While I'd like to keep this from being a speedy RMT thread, suggestions of improvements to entered teams are allowed. In the interests of fairness though, I'd ask that any suggestions don't involve anything more major than move set changes, and that if you've already submitted a team you won't change the Pokémon in it. Basically, just be sure that you're happy with the team before you send it in.
Clean and Tidy: I'd like to keep the thread as clean and uniform as possible, as for ease of browsing, so this means keep formatting consistent, using the provided links for sprites and avoid posting one liners during the submission phase.
Sprites: Please use this sprite option below:
- format is :pokemonnamehere: i.e. :groudon-primal: -->
Voting Phase: The voting system used is the Ranked Pairs format. This format is arguably much fairer than the simple voting format and should help keep high stakes for the teams that win. So to vote you basically order your options like this: C>B>A>D, like this A>B=C>D, or like this D>C, assuming there are 4 team options (A, B, C, and D). You can vote if you made a team, but naturally, you aren't allowed to vote for yourself. If you choose not to vote for all teams, the last team(s) will be assumed to be last and valued equally if more than one got left out. If you have any questions about this system, by all means, contact bumboclaat, Runo, or ANinjaDude.
Voting for the next cycle. Upon the conclusion of each cycle a poll will be posted at the top of this thread. The poll will run for a couple days whilst we vote on the current teams posted. Each poll will consist of multiple options of which the winner will be the next mon we build around. I have made a preliminary list of mons that will potentially be an option for the teambuilding competition. However, it is not set in stone. So again, if there is a set or a pokemon you think would be fun to build around please do not hesitate to pm bumboclaat, Runo, or ANinjaDude with your suggestion.

bumboclaat · Dec 19, 2023

Hall of Fame

Cycle 1	Choice Band Marshadow	BrakeSeer Marshadow Balance (Updated 01.04.24)
Cycle 2	Giratina - Origin	Band Marshadow + LO Ho-oh Balance by 09-10A
Cycle 3	Rayquaza	SD Groundceus Webs by WeirdHamster
Cycle 4	Choice Band Calyrex Ice	Caly I Balance by Bumboclaat
Cycle 5	Landorus Incarnate -	Dual Lead Lando I HO by 09-10A
Cycle 6	Arceus Ghost or Choice Specs Eternatus or	Scoliopede Ghostceus HO by 09-10A
Cycle 7	Mega Latias	Mega Latias BO by 09-10A
Cycle 8	Mega Salamence	Mega Mence BO by S0A0M0I0
Cycle 9	Choice Yveltal //	ZGeo Xern BO (not floober) by BananaTimeZ
Cycle 10	Lunala	Specs Lunala Balance by Bumboclaat
Cycle 11	Palkia-Origin or Necrozma-DM or	ZNDM + Band Ray BO by Bumboclaat
Cycle 12	Deoxys Attack	Glimm Psyspam by Sandwich Lover
Cycle 13	Low Ranked Arceus Forms (Dragon and below)	Rockceus BO by Bananatimez
Cycle 14	Arceus Fairy	3A Fairyceus Balance by Brakeseer
Cycle 15	Trapper or Dragon Z Zygarde	Dual Trapper by Eledyr
Cycle 16	Offensive Ho-Oh
Cycle 17
Cycle 18
Cycle 19
Cycle 20

bumboclaat · Dec 19, 2023

The first week will start upon the completion of the NDUbers cycles in the NDOM mainpage which can be found here. If you would like to build a team featuring SD :necrozma-ultra:

head over there and submit your team!

bumboclaat · Dec 21, 2023

Week 1 - Choice Band Marshadow

:sv/marshadow:

Marshadow @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Ghost
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Low Kick
- Shadow Sneak
- Spectral Thief / Rock Tomb / Ice Punch / Pursuit
- Poltergeist / Rock Tomb / Ice Punch / Pursuit

After a session of NDUbers laddering there are two questions that cross every battlers mind. How did I have so much trouble with this team full garbage mons and how did that Marshadow do so little damage? With each passing generation gamefreak releases new mons and exceeds our expectations for powercreep. The singular constant through the last few generations is ladders baffling love affair with focus sash Marshadow, much to the dismay of ANinjaDude. No, showdown did not glitch and replace Marshadow's attack with Ledian's, it really just is that weak.

As such, choice band Marshadow has been given the centre stage spotlight in our inaugural teambuilding competition. Whilst 125 attack is nothing to write home about access to high powered, famously unresisted STABs accompanied by strong priority in technician boost shadow sneak allows Marshadow to kick well above its weight class. The pool of mons who can comfortably switch into choice band Marshadow is comprable to a puddle, and that is before it decides to tera ghost. What team will you build to show ladder what Marshadow is actually capable of? The deadline for submissions is 28 December 05.00 GMT. Voting will take place from 28 Dec - 31 Jan and with the new year we will have a new mon to build around

R8 · Dec 21, 2023

Mola + Marshadow fat

This is an edit of the team I used in NDFL ; I explained more about Alomomola in this VR nomination post.

I probably will do a more in-depth explanation of the team when I'll do an ndfl team-dump, but in a nutshell the idea is to be a fat team taking advantage of Mola as a regen pivot & a wish passer that can help with the longevity of the team (honestly, regen+wish+pivot is such incredible combination in general, giving you lot of flexibility in game). Marsh obviously appreciates mola being able to pivot into it, and potentially help it against hazards chip. The concept works, but honestly I think there is still improvement possible for the team, so here are some options I thought about:

Of course in general if you have ideas to improve the team, feel free to toy with it and tweak it the way you like it and see how it goes
-The Groudon can opt for a much more offensive set to get more value from the longevity Alomomola provides to it, I'm not sure if you really need a set so defensive. You want to keep the rock move however, to threaten Ho-Oh so it doesn't just remove your spikes for free.
-Yveltal used to be U-Turn over Taunt, you can try that. I think Foul Play is also possible to be safer against setup sweeper, but I believe the team already handles those well. Marshadow my beloved!
-You could toy around with the Alomomola spread - iirc, it currently is max hp max spdef for an eternatus calc, so keep that in mind.
-Marshadow is adamant to get as much power as you can behind Shadow Sneak, which is a wonderful tool to have against offensive teams, so I don't recommend changing that. Rock Slide is very considering you have spikes instead of rocks in this team, which makes Ho-Oh generally more annoying considering it might try to absorb Knock Off if they know/realize you don't have rocks. Generally making sure they don't feel safe trying to scout what you lock into is very nice too. I like Spectral Thief on adamant marsh as the sole real ghost stab, as it handle coil zygarde with the help of Alomomola safely bringing it in, and also because on this specific team I prefer the prefect accuracy of Spectral Thief over Poltergeist, which also comes with the benefit of not getting sabotaged by Knock Off. I unfortunately realized this in middle of my game against WeirdHamster :(

You might also notice how the team forgoes rocks for spikes - this is to match opposing spikes better, and also because spikes is very comparable to rocks to this tier in my opinion: if you look at the VR, Spikes just are better against most pokes, so I think this is a very feasible thing to do as long as you pay attention to your matchup to the Pokemon you might want to be able to hit with rocks instead (knocked off boots users, mega-salamence, giratina-o, rayquaza).

If you have any questions ideas or suggestions feel free to ping me in the natdex discord or shoot me a pm (.r.8. is my user tag), I'm interested to try to improve the team, as I believe there might be a lot to be tried out with this structure of team

BrakeSeer · Dec 21, 2023

bumboclaat said:
Week 1 - Choice Band Marshadow

Marshadow @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Ghost
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Low Kick
- Shadow Sneak
- Spectral Thief / Rock Tomb / Ice Punch / Pursuit
- Poltergeist / Rock Tomb / Ice Punch / Pursuit

After a session of NDUbers laddering there are two questions that cross every battlers mind. How did I have so much trouble with this team full garbage mons and how did that Marshadow do so little damage? With each passing generation gamefreak releases new mons and exceeds our expectations for powercreep. The singular constant through the last few generations is ladders baffling love affair with focus sash Marshadow, much to the dismay of ANinjaDude. No, showdown did not glitch and replace Marshadow's attack with Ledian's, it really just is that weak.

As such, choice band Marshadow has been given the centre stage spotlight in our inaugural teambuilding competition. Whilst 125 attack is nothing to write home about access to high powered, famously unresisted STABs accompanied by strong priority in technician boost shadow sneak allows Marshadow to kick well above its weight class. The pool of mons who can comfortably switch into choice band Marshadow is comprable to a puddle, and that is before it decides to tera ghost. What team will you build to show ladder what Marshadow is actually capable of? The deadline for submissions is 28 December 05.00 GMT. Voting will take place from 28 Dec - 31 Jan and with the new year we will have a new mon to build around

https://pokepast.es/5667d4fd2ab251e4
this is a balance team built around breaking down powerful walls like donbozo and darkeus to make room for my hazard centric team to chip down opposing pokemon with marshadow as an anti ekiller measure which the team usually struggles with. with dual special win conditions with many similar checks like xerneas and cm garceus with coil zygarde to act as a phaser with ho oh as well as a physical win condition if the unaware physdef mon dies or is weakened, and since the opp has likly been saving their spdef checks the physical monster that is tera fairy zygod can easily clean away games. with xerns unique EV spread it lets it tank strong hits like eternatus' sludge bomb for 95% max as well as survive an adamant ultra necrozma sunsteel strike 93.3% of the time, and always surviving a plus 2 tera normal espeed from adamant arc with a silk scarf. the HP evs are to guarantee that Stoss is a 5HKO letting you take on chansey much better in an end game scenario vs stall

09-10a · Dec 27, 2023

Semi-Stall ft. Band Marsh
My experience maining HO made me doubt the effectiveness of pure stall. Be it through Ditto or a Perish Pool Arceus forme or Toxic, you will need some sort of offense and longevity or else teams will just maul you over and overwhelm you with repeated attacks. This is true for the most part due to the highly offensive nature of NDUbers and the playerbases' tendency to pack counters to traditional stall. Looking at you :Xerneas:

Taunt

formes

Calm Mind + Rest :Kyogre-Primal:

and more. And no, :Dondozo:

alone just won't cut it.

As such, this team intends to patch that up by utilizing Wish :Chansey:

and Marshadow's offensive and defensive utility to both pose a threat, revenge foes, stallbreak through sheer power and trapping with Pursuit, and check :Arceus:

at the same time. The team and its objective speaks for itself: Lay Toxic Spikes and sit as you laugh at your opponent's Perish-trapped :Eternatus:

or poisoned Geomancy :Xerneas:

desperately trying to break through.

Team Breakdown:
:dread-plate:

We all know how good Arceus-Dark is especially with its new toy in Foul Play. Walls :Necrozma-Ultra:

and can check :life-orb:

as well as boosted :groudon-primal:

among others in a pinch. Whirlpool + Perish Song lets it trap :Eternatus:

and

which will absorb toxic spikes for eternity, passive walls like slow support :Arceus:

formes and :Dondozo:

and

lacking U-turn. The evs creeps +Spe :Xerneas:

and

and maximizes physical bulk while also letting you take Oblivion Wings from :life-orb:

and Judgments from :Arceus:

better. Tera Poison to laugh at Toxic and check :Zacian-Crowned:

and

in a pinch.

:Ho-Oh:

Nothing to explain here. Standard spread so it can do Ho-Oh things. Tera Fairy laughs at Dragon Dance + Dragon Tail :Zygarde:

This team utilizes Zygarde-Complete over :Dondozo:

solely because of good :groudon-primal:

matchup. EV'ed to hit 408 HP and 624 HP after transformation, both of which are divisible by 16 to maximize leftovers recovery. Tera Water for good defensive type. Dragon Tail to not be a sitting duck vs Taunt + Swords Dance / Calm Mind :Arceus:

formes. This is the main Terastal user whenever :Zacian-Crowned:

is on the opposing team. Pivot :Ho-Oh:

to lure Wild Charge, then switch to :Zygarde:

then Tera, then click Coil. The team can function well even when Tera is already used up.

:Chansey:

Nothing to explain here. Does Chansey things. Wish is chosen over Confide for longevity and since its targeta are easily dealt with by the team's synergy. :Clodsire:

is more than happy to bully Non-Tera Ground :Xerneas:

variants lacking Psyshock or Psychic. :Marshadow:

deters Calm Mind + Rest :Kyogre-Primal:

from stacking up boosts unscathed, and if you opted for Jolly, it can also deal with Calm Mind :Arceus:

.

will phaze it as well, unless it is Calm Mind + Taunt :Earth-plate:

and to an extent, :Splash-plate:

and all of them are either hoplessly walled/phazed, Perish-trapped if slow, bulky Calm Mind, or are punished by Toxic Spikes. 36 HP to maximize Special bulk while also not sacrificing Physical bulk. 325 HP Wish.

:Choice-Band:

The star of the show. I opted for Adamant for power, but Jolly is always an option. Checks Extreme Killer :Arceus:

and can break defensive cores in tandem with Toxic Spikes and Tera Ghost. Spectral Thief for more pp and to handle Coil Zygarde. Pursuit to play mind games and forcibly eliminate, or at least, chip targets that would otherwise switch out such as :Mewtwo-mega-y:

as well as weakened Pre-Tera :Giratina:

and of course, opposing Choice Band :Marshadow:

locked in to Close Combat/Low Kick. All of those are annoying for the team and a stall team in general. Since the team has a cleric and a Wish passer, you can afford to play aggresively with :Marshadow:

Adamant for higher damage output.

:Air-balloon:

is a niche yet solid pick in contrast to its fellow Toxic Spikes, Marshadow-checking brethren in :Eternatus:

and

thanks to its access to Unaware. This, in conjunction with its good bulk lets it stonewall any Geomancy :Xerneas:

without Tera Ground boosted Hidden Power [Ground], Psyshock, or Psychic. It also deals with Bulk Up :Life-orb:

and

well especially the Poltergeist variants. This feat alone nails it a spot on this team. Air Balloon for the aforementioned reason and to check Taunt + Toxic :Earth-plate:

as long as it is intact. The given EVs lets it avoid the 2HKO from +SpA :Xerneas:

Psyshock from full after Stealth Rock. Poison Jab over Toxic to deal with Taunt. Tera Grass to check Swords/Dragon Dance :earth-plate:

in a pinch.

Some things to consider:
:Clodsire:

is not a

switch-in unless the situation calls for it. Play around it with :Dread-plate:

and Toxic

Toxic variants of :Yveltal:

are a pain to deal with. So try to land a Toxic on it with :Ho-Oh:

Knock Off is pretty rare on defensive Toxic :Yveltal:

Always scout :Yveltal:

with

first before :Ho-Oh:

Try to get Tspikes early and pressure :Ho-Oh:

by trading Toxic. I recommend leading :Ho-Oh:

on teams with :Zacian-crowned:

Support Toxic :groudon-primal:

is gonna be annoying for the team. As such, try to eliminate it as early as possible. Do not be afraid of Toxic. :Chansey:

can heal your status. And if worse comes worst, Tera Ghost :Marshadow:

will forcibly eliminate even a healthy :Necrozma-ultra:

Spam Wish whenever :Chansey:

is in unless the situation says otherwise.

Versus Taunt + Toxic :Splash-plate:

the play is to burn with :Ho-Oh:

then force it to burn Recover PP with :Chansey:

through Stoss. Alternating between :Chansey:

and

is optimal in this scenario. Terastallizing :Zygarde:

isn't a bad play either. Jolly :Marshadow:

is useful in this matchup.

:Clodsire:

checks

lacking Behemoth Blade or Tera Blast [Ground].

Alternate sets/spreads:
80 HP / 220+ Def / 4 SpD / 204 Spe for :Dread-Plate:

Tera Fairy :Dread-plate:

to trap Toxic + Dragon Tail :Eternatus:

+Spe on

Knock off on :Marshadow:

(a bit skeptical but it can work on this build)

Water Absorb :Clodsire:

(not recommended)

20 HP / 236 Def / 252+ SpD :Blissey:

over

with Leftovers for more breathing room vs Taunt + Toxic :Arceus:

formes

Tera Fairy/Poison :Chansey:

and Tera Grass :Ho-Oh:

(not recommended)

Have fun!

bumboclaat · Dec 27, 2023

09-10a said:
Semi-Stall ft. Band Marsh
My experience maining HO made me doubt the effectiveness of pure stall. Be it through Ditto or a Perish Pool Arceus forme or Toxic, you will need some sort of offense and longevity or else teams will just maul you over and overwhelm you with repeated attacks. This is true for the most part due to the highly offensive nature of NDUbers and the playerbases' tendency to pack counters to traditional stall. Looking at you Taunt formes Calm Mind + Rest and more. And no, alone just won't cut it.

As such, this team intends to patch that up by utilizing Wish and Marshadow's offensive and defensive utility to both pose a threat, revenge foes, stallbreak through sheer power and trapping with Pursuit, and check at the same time. The team and its objective speaks for itself: Lay Toxic Spikes and sit as you laugh at your opponent's Perish-trapped or poisoned Geomancy desperately trying to break through.

Team Breakdown:
We all know how good Arceus-Dark is especially with its new toy in Foul Play. Walls and can check as well as boosted among others in a pinch. Whirlpool + Perish Song lets it trap and which will absorb toxic spikes for eternity, passive walls like slow support formes and and lacking U-turn. The evs creeps +Spe and and maximizes physical bulk while also letting you take Oblivion Wings from and Judgments from better. Tera Poison to laugh at Toxic and check and in a pinch.

Nothing to explain here. Standard spread so it can do Ho-Oh things. Tera Fairy laughs at Dragon Dance + Dragon Tail

This team utilizes Zygarde-Complete over solely because of good matchup. EV'ed to hit 408 HP and 624 HP after transformation, both of which are divisible by 16 to maximize leftovers recovery. Tera Water for good defensive type. Dragon Tail to not be a sitting duck vs Taunt + Swords Dance / Calm Mind formes. This is the main Terastal user whenever is on the opposing team. Pivot to lure Wild Charge, then switch to then Tera, then click Coil. The team can function well even when Tera is already used up.

Nothing to explain here. Does Chansey things. Wish is chosen over Confide for longevity and since its targeta are easily dealt with by the team's synergy. is more than happy to bully Non-Tera Ground variants lacking Psyshock or Psychic. deters Calm Mind + Rest from stacking up boosts unscathed, and if you opted for Jolly, it can also deal with Calm Mind . will phaze it as well, unless it is Calm Mind + Taunt and to an extent, and all of them are either hoplessly walled/phazed, Perish-trapped if slow, bulky Calm Mind, or are punished by Toxic Spikes. 36 HP to maximize Special bulk while also not sacrificing Physical bulk. 325 HP Wish.

The star of the show. I opted for Adamant for power, but Jolly is always an option. Checks Extreme Killer and can break defensive cores in tandem with Toxic Spikes and Tera Ghost. Spectral Thief for more pp and to handle Coil Zygarde. Pursuit to play mind games and forcibly eliminate, or at least, chip targets that would otherwise switch out such as as well as weakened Pre-Tera and of course, opposing Choice Band locked in to Close Combat/Low Kick. All of those are annoying for the team and a stall team in general. Since the team has a cleric and a Wish passer, you can afford to play aggresively with
Adamant for higher damage output.

is a niche yet solid pick in contrast to its fellow Toxic Spikes, Marshadow-checking brethren in and thanks to its access to Unaware. This, in conjunction with its good bulk lets it stonewall any Geomancy without Tera Ground boosted Hidden Power [Ground], Psyshock, or Psychic. It also deals with Bulk Up and well especially the Poltergeist variants. This feat alone nails it a spot on this team. Air Balloon for the aforementioned reason and to check Taunt + Toxic as long as it is intact. The given EVs lets it avoid the 2HKO from +SpA Psyshock from full after Stealth Rock. Poison Jab over Toxic to deal with Taunt. Tera Grass to check Swords/Dragon Dance in a pinch.

Some things to consider:
is not a switch-in unless the situation calls for it. Play around it with and Toxic

Toxic variants of are a pain to deal with. So try to land a Toxic on it with Knock Off is pretty rare on defensive Toxic

Always scout with first before

Try to get Tspikes early and pressure by trading Toxic. I recommend leading on teams with

Support Toxic is gonna be annoying for the team. As such, try to eliminate it as early as possible. Do not be afraid of Toxic. can heal your status. And if worse comes worst, Tera Ghost will forcibly eliminate even a healthy

Spam Wish whenever is in unless the situation says otherwise.

Alternate sets/spreads:
80 HP / 220+ Def / 4 SpD / 204 Spe for

+Spe on

Water Absorb (not recommended)

Tera Grass (not recommended)

Have fun!

I am 99% sure I faced you with this team 3 times last week and it is the reason why pursuit is a slash as I thought pursuit on :marshadow:

was an interesting option albiet one I would want to use sparsely. Definitely goobed my :calyrex-ice:

and my team game 1, but staying in in the pursuit
g2/3 let me win. Definitely did not realize that the :arceus:

had whirlpool. Turns out I do have a replay. I think if you want to use non confide :chansey:

you want taunt on :arceus:

and the wish passing might make the :kyogre-primal:

matchup a bit easier to navigate.

09-10a · Dec 27, 2023

bumboclaat said:
I am 99% sure I faced you with this team 3 times last week and it is the reason why pursuit is a slash as I thought pursuit on was an interesting option albiet one I would want to use sparsely. Definitely goobed my and my team game 1, but staying in in the pursuit
g2/3 let me win. Definitely did not realize that the had whirlpool. Turns out I do have a replay. I think if you want to use non confide you want taunt on and the wish passing might make the matchup a bit easier to navigate.

Yes, I remember. You outplayed me game 2 by staying in on Pursuit with your :Calyrex-Ice:

Actually, that is the old version with Stealth Rock and Toxic over Perish Pool. Taunt is indeed good but it is a double-edged sword. First is that the team will falter versus Pressure cores while Regen cores will straight up live all game spamming Toxic, or in :Toxapex:

case, Knock Off. It really only worked when I switched up Foul Play with Judgment, or when I ran both of them + Taunt. And even this is shaky.

In any case, thanks for the suggestion :) I think it is a wonderful option. Perish Pool struggles vs Toxic + U-Turn :Yveltal:

and the team in general, as such, having the option to stop it with Taunt would be a sight for sore eyes.

The :Kyogre-Primal:

matchup is not really that big of a deal when played correctly. Just preserve :Marshadow:

and Perish Pool :Dread-plate:

and it will never break through. All of which I failed to do game 2.

bumboclaat · Dec 27, 2023

Yeah you definitely know the team a lot better than I do. At the end of the day you have to play what is in front of you and it is nice to see whirlpool :arceus:

used in a thoughtful way. It is definitely a gimmick but one that works on the right team. But yeah double STAB's definitely isn't worth it. With whatever ends up being chosen in the poll next week I'll build and test something for it. Didn't do the first one because I suck at using :marshadow:

for whatever reason.

One thing I was wondering is what exactly is the plan for :life-orb:

? Whenever I see a fat balance/semistall/stall that is always the first thing that comes to mind because of how oppressive it is to those sorts of teams

bumboclaat · Dec 27, 2023

Thanks to everyone who posted teams for our inaugural teambuilding competiton. We have three innovative and unique teams to vote on. If you plan to vote remember that we are employing a ranked voting format.

Our teams are:

1. Mola + Marshadow Fat by R8
2. Marshadow Balance by BrakeSeer
3. Marshadow Semistall by 09-10a

Voting will be open until 05.00 GMT 01 Jan. Upon accouncing this weeks winner the next mon that we will build around will be announced. In the meantime please fill out this google form so we can decide what next weeks mon will be. If you think a mon would be fun to build around just check the box and submit the form. Feel free to pick as many or as little options as you'd like as there is no limit. Whichever mon receives the most votes will be what we build around next week!

The options are:

Offensive Ho-oh
Offensive Trick Room Necrozma Dusk Mane
Mega Salamence
Giratina - Origin
Offensive Lunala (specs or meteor beam)
Rayquaza (Band, Swords Dance, or Dragon Dance)
Ferrothorn
Choice Band Calyrex Ice

In the meantime if you are interested in more discussion regarding the tier please join NatDexUbers discord! Although we do currently have a list of about 20 mons we are always looking for suggestions. If you have a mon you'd like to be considered for the teambuilding competition do not hesistate to reach out to bumboclaat , ANinjaDude, or Runo

09-10a · Dec 28, 2023

bumboclaat said:
Yeah you definitely know the team a lot better than I do. At the end of the day you have to play what is in front of you and it is nice to see whirlpool used in a thoughtful way. It is definitely a gimmick but one that works on the right team. But yeah double STAB's definitely isn't worth it. With whatever ends up being chosen in the poll next week I'll build and test something for it. Didn't do the first one because I suck at using for whatever reason.

One thing I was wondering is what exactly is the plan for ? Whenever I see a fat balance/semistall/stall that is always the first thing that comes to mind because of how oppressive it is to those sorts of teams

For

it really depends.
Scout with :Ho-Oh:

then switch :Dread-plate:

to see if it is Knock Off or Taunt, or even Rock Slide, or Koff + Taunt, or the support set.

The team struggles with it quite a bit but it's not impossible.

:Choice-band:

will always revenge.

One thing this team really hates is Koff + Taunt :Life-Orb:

with a teammate :Zacian-crowned:

and taking this into account, letting :Ho-Oh:

get Knocked Off is not that big of a deal if it means getting :Life-orb:

poisoned. If it's just Knock Off, :dread-plate:

is always the play. :Ho-Oh:

can Tera Fairy in worst case scenarios but if it is partnered with :Zacian-crowned:

playing and alternating between :dread-plate:

and

aggressively rather than Terastallizing is better. If it's neither, :Chansey:

or Perish-trapping with :Dread-plate:

is the go-to depending on which is best. :Ho-Oh:

dying is not the end of the world for this team.

If it does happen to be the annoying support set, :Clodsire:

can take it comfortably by fishing for poison. And if, for whatever reason, it's suspected to not have U-turn, :Dread-plate:

will forcibly remove through correct play and proper positioning.

Weirdhamster · Dec 28, 2023

Team 1 > Team 2 > Team 3

Runo · Dec 28, 2023

bumboclaat said:
Our teams are:

1. Mola + Marshadow Fat by R8
2. Marshadow Balance by BrakeSeer
3. Marshadow Semistall by 09-10a

2 > 1

bumboclaat · Dec 28, 2023

09-10a said:
For it really depends.
Scout with then switch to see if it is Knock Off or Taunt, or even Rock Slide, or Koff + Taunt, or the support set.

The team struggles with it quite a bit but it's not impossible.

will always revenge.

One thing this team really hates is Koff + Taunt with a teammate and taking this into account, letting get Knocked Off is not that big of a deal if it means getting poisoned. If it's just Knock Off, is always the play. can Tera Fairy in worst case scenarios but if it is partnered with playing and alternating between and aggressively rather than Terastallizing is better. If it's neither, or Perish-trapping with is the go-to depending on which is best. dying is not the end of the world for this team.

If it does happen to be the annoying support set, can take it comfortably by fishing for poison. And if, for whatever reason, it's suspected to not have U-turn, will forcibly remove through correct play and proper positioning.

That is fair enough, but yeah my perferred :life-orb:

set is definitely

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Taunt
- Knock Off

It is by far and away the most splashable set because of how little support it requires to absolutely dismantle most fat teams with minimal support. Really the biggest issue is deciding the nature since timid loses out on some damage thresholds but outspeeding max speed :groudon-primal:

ect is significant. But yeah feel like building a balance/bo if you use overheat :primal-groudon: + :life-orb:

+ some something to sponge status you have at a minimum a playable if not winning matchup v most fat which lets the rest of the team focus focus on answering/smacking offence.

Also for everyone else Runo has made me realize I have the IQ of a and can just put a poll at the top of the thread which is what will be done moving forward. Please use the google form this week but I will be making a poll for the thread next week.

entrocefalo · Dec 29, 2023

2>1>3

Zrp200 · Dec 29, 2023

3 > 2 > 1

S0A0M0I0 · Dec 30, 2023

2 > 3 > 1

bumboclaat · Dec 31, 2023

As I am going to be busy later the post will be going up early today. Congratulations to BrakeSeer on winning the first teambuilding cycle with their Marshadow Balance team! The votes for Week Two have come in and we have a three tie for first place!

When we have a tie I, aninjadude, or runo will be deciding the tiebreaker. As such, due to the greatest flexibility when building our mon for cycle 2 will be Giratina-Origin!

Giratina-Origin
:sv/giratina-origin:

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Core
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 184 Atk / 76 Spe
Tera Type: Poison / Rock
Adamant Nature
- Poltergeist
- Dragon Tail
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp / Stone Edge

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Core
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 208 SpA / 52 SpD
Tera Type: Poison
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hex
- Defog
- Thunder Wave / Will-O-Wisp / Toxic

For clarity's sake, there will be no moveslot/tera/ev restrictions this week! You are free to use any variation of Giratina-Origin that you can make work. This is to allow more freedom in building as Giratina-Origin is somewhat underexplored. Though Giratina-Origin is no longer ubiquitous nor centralizing as it was in its debut generation, it is still a fantastic mon in Natdex Ubers! Giratina Origin often a linchpin to bulky offence and occasional balance teams it finds itself on. Its combination of typing, bulk, and levitate allows it to switch in and defog on many of the hazard setters in the tier, particularly Primal Groudon. However, it does has a complete lack of recovery and susceptability to status, particularly toxic, so it isn't going to last forever. Additionally, offensive sets that eschew defog are underexplored and have potential as a wallbreaker and revenge killer on some builds.
The deadline for submissions is 05 January @ 05.00 GMT and voting will take place Jan 6-7. Voting on the mon for cycle 3 will happen in a poll on this thread. Until then I'm looking forward to seeing the creative ways giratina origin is used! And a happy new year!

BrakeSeer · Dec 31, 2023

bumboclaat said:
As I am going to be busy later the post will be going up early today. Congratulations to BrakeSeer on winning the first teambuilding cycle with their Marshadow Balance team! The votes for Week Two have come in and we have a three tie for first place!

View attachment 585691

When we have a tie I, aninjadude, or runo will be deciding the tiebreaker. As such, due to the greatest flexibility when building our mon for cycle 2 will be Giratina-Origin!

Giratina-Origin

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Core
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 184 Atk / 76 Spe
Tera Type: Poison / Rock
Adamant Nature
- Poltergeist
- Dragon Tail
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp / Stone Edge

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Core
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 208 SpA / 52 SpD
Tera Type: Poison
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hex
- Defog
- Thunder Wave / Will-O-Wisp / Toxic

For clarity's sake, there will be no moveslot/tera/ev restrictions this week! You are free to use any variation of Giratina-Origin that you can make work. This is to allow more freedom in building as Giratina-Origin is somewhat underexplored. Though Giratina-Origin is no longer ubiquitous nor centralizing as it was in its debut generation, it is still a fantastic mon in Natdex Ubers! Giratina Origin often a linchpin to bulky offence and occasional balance teams it finds itself on. Its combination of typing, bulk, and levitate allows it to switch in and defog on many of the hazard setters in the tier, particularly Primal Groudon. However, it does has a complete lack of recovery and susceptability to status, particularly toxic, so it isn't going to last forever. Additionally, offensive sets that eschew defog are underexplored and have potential as a wallbreaker and revenge killer on some builds.
The deadline for submissions is 05 January @ 05.00 GMT and voting will take place Jan 6-7. Voting on the mon for cycle 3 will happen in a poll on this thread. Until then I'm looking forward to seeing the creative ways giratina origin is used! And a happy new year!

https://pokepast.es/3667fa1c64fe48c7
pretty self explanitory, use mewtwo for midgame to weaken common threats xern cannot OHKO, with tera rock xern to ensure an OHKO on the most common Ho-oh spread

09-10a · Jan 2, 2024

Happy New Year, lads!

People nowadays only see :Ho-Oh:

as the tier's Great Wall/Defogger of NDUBERS, ~~and, well, it is,~~ but needless to say, let's not forget that even tanks have cannons!

Band Marshadow + LO Ho-Oh Spikes Balance

Let's break it down:

Not much to say here. Adamant and Jolly are interchangeable, but this team appreciates outpacing 252+ Speed :Arceus:

formes. Pursuit is chosen to punish opposing :Choice-Band:

locked into Close Combat or Low Kick especially after Tera Ghost, which the team appreciates as :Groudon-Primal:

is the only realistic switch-in to banded Fighting-type move that isn't hampered by Stealth Rock.

This one is pretty specialized. Z-crystal allows it to nuke any :Dread-Plate:

or, at +2, :Zygarde:

attempting to wall it. Deleting :Xerneas:

and chipping cocky :Zacian-Crowned:

hard—if not, OHKO'ing it outright—is also valuable. The spreads let it sponge special hits from :Mewtwo-Mega-Y:

Special

and

in a last ditch effort. 148 Speed outpaces Adamant :Arceus:

at +1 and the entire unboosted metagame at +2. Rock Blast is chosen because of its multi-hit nature, albeit inconsistent, and because the team appreciates hitting :Ho-Oh:

more than hitting steels and :Groudon-Primal:

. One thing to note is that it avoids the OHKO from +2 252+ :Xerneas:

Tera Fighting Focus Blast and Tera Electric Thunder/Thunderbolt, with the former only having a 25% to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

Now you might say, "What the hell, bro? No Shoes without Magic Bounce or Double Defog? You suck." While I won't contest that, I have a valid reason as to why I ran this, which I will explain later. Anyways, :Life-Orb:

forms an offensive core with the team's :Marshadow:

to gang up on support :Arceus:

formes and :Zygarde:

. Funnily enough, this IS the team's main switch-in to :Zygarde:

and support :Arceus:

formes LOL. The thought is that most support :Groudon-Primal:

formes

often takes advantage of KFC's passivity and reliance on Toxic and its weak Sacred Fires. But not this one. Any Taunt + Toxic :Arceus:

that isn't :Splash-Plate:

is bullied, :Groudon-Primal:

and

will take a shit ton from Brave Bird, and so on and so forth. 248/176 lets it eat a 252+ Banded Tera Ghost Poltergeist, +1 252+ LO Tera Ghost Poltergeist, +2 252+ LO Extreme Speed, and everything in between. 16 Attack to hit 330 which is a good benchmark and 16 Speed to creep. Tera Fairy laughs at Dragon Dance + Dragon Tail :Zygarde:

, and I don't recommend changing it since this team can be 6-0'ed by that set.

Not much to say here. Physically defensive to serve as a switch-in to :Marshadow:

while also checking :Kyogre-Primal:

and

. Level 99 was chosen in order to underspeed support :Giratina:

and always win the weather war vs :Kyogre-Primal:

in a lead matchup. 1 Spe IV achieves this while also creeping other Level 99 base 90's who mindlessly ran 0 IV. Dragon Tail to smack :Salamence-Mega:

and

, good to rack up spikes damage and to phaze Taunt + Toxic :Arceus:

too.

The star of the show. Dual status is insanely potent right now since the Offensive Utility set in Defog/Toxic or Will-O-Wisp or Thunder Wave/Hex or Poltergeist/Draco Meteor or Dragon Tail is quite common. At the cost of not hitting Taunt Extreme Killer :Arceus:

, which the team handles quite well thanks to :Marshadow:

and

, it will spread passive damage to its heart's content, all while laughing at cocky :Zacian-Crowned:

or

thinking you're setup fodder after revealing Toxic. Level 99 is used to underspeed support :Groudon-Primal:

and

while outspeeding other Level 99 base 90s. Tera Steel is chosen to resist both of :Zacian-Crowned:

STAB moves in a pinch and halt its sweep. EVs maximizes physical bulk while avoiding the 2HKO from +252 :Groudon-Primal:

Eruption after rocks. Now unto the matter I mentioned earlier, this team functions without Magic Bounce and Double Defog purely because of :Giratina-Origin:

and its talents. The only relevant hazard setters at the moment are :Groudon-Primal:

(although pretty rare) and :Tyranitar-Mega:

on certain stall teams. Stealth Rock + Taunt :Arceus:

is almost non-existent, and when it does appear, it just means you're fighting HO, a playstyle in which :Ho-Oh:

won't have that much of a use anyway. Not to mention the rarity of Stealth Rock + Toxic :Arceus:

outside of stall. Going back, :Giratina-Origin:

defogs on 3 of them, 6 if you Tera Steel on Glimmora, if Smeargle lacks Taunt, and if Shuckle lacks Toxic. And incredibly consistent at that.

Nothing to explain here. 204 creeps +252 Speed Yveltal and Xerneas. Refresh lets it act as a status sponge since :Ho-Oh:

absolutely hates being poisoned unless it has to. Self-explanatory.

Alternate sets/spreads:

204 HP / 212 +Def / 92 SpD maximizes physical bulk while avoiding the 2HKO from 252+ Eruption from Groudon-Primal assuming rocks are not in play.

248 HP / 168 Def / 4 SpD / 88 +Spe makes the matchup easier at the cost of being frailer on the physical side.

Here's an example for curiosity's sake:

252+ Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 168 Def Arceus-Dark: 440-518 (99.3 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 104 HP / 196+ Def Arceus-Dark: 390-462 (95.8 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

248 HP / 44 +Atk / 148 Def / 52 SpD / 16 Spe can be run for more general power while maximizing bulk. 72+ Atk / 120 Def or 88 +Atk / 108 Def / 12 Spe works too, the latter making Ho-Oh hit as hard as Life Orb Marshadow, but I really do not recommend either unless bulk is the least of your concern. There are no relevant calcs that requires a higher investment than 16 aside from and , the latter seeing almost no use. is also an option, albeit prediction-reliant.

Tera Fire over Tera Steel on
Taunt to ease the matchup immensely and Defog to help works at the cost of having no good status sponge.
Defog over Earthquake on will greatly help vs the hazard war but worsens the matchup vs stall due to being indefinitely walled by .

Have fun!

bumboclaat · Jan 3, 2024

I've been quite busy irl the last couple of months, but that appears to be slowing down a fair bit. I felt bad about having zero time to build a :marshadow:

team last week so I wanted to at least submit something with :giratina-origin:

. So I looked in my builder to see if I even had any :giratina-origin:

teams and had two that I'd built back around June that were not fleshed out in the slightest. The first was horrible, but the second at least had workable foundations. So after some edits and a few games of testing I present a crappy giratina origin team.

The Process

:giratina-origin:

Well first thing is to decide on the :giratina-origin:

set. I rarely run into physical :giratina-origin:

and I really was not liking special variants. A fogging tina is always going to have STAB's + x, which is usually a status move. For this team thunder wave fit best due to the extent which :rayquaza:

and

appreciate paralysis support. I replaced dragon tail with sneak primarily due to :xerneas:

. This is already a somewhat :xerneas:

weak team and the ability to revenge it without locking into an exploitable extremespeed. :groudon-primal:

checks it yes, butbut rarely actually wants to due to often being relied on to defensively handle other things. I didn't really deviate much at all from the dex sets due to not having much time, but the spread could likely be optimized.
As an aside, everytime I built with :giratina-origin:

I became incredibly frustrated it wasn't :ho-oh:

. Turns out that when you don't start with :groudon-primal:

+

a lot of things, particularly :xerneas:

/

go from well as long as the rest of the team doesn't give them a ton of space it is fine to very active concerns in the builder.

Well it is not a stall team so it is almost certainly going to have a :groudon-primal:

. Defensive overheat is my go :groudon-primal:

set so I just chucked in there at the beginning and figured I can change it later. It spreads status, helps v fat, and provides hazards. If I had more time I'd have tested SD/RP / rocks / blades / heat crash or rock move which might fit better.

Since this was intended to a BO and it required :giratina-origin:

I wanted to shore up the team somewhat defensively v :xerneas:

/

. I didn't have time to build a :giratina-origin:

balance unfortunately so :necrozma-dusk-mane:

it is. At first I tried offensive DD, but was very disappointed. It just didn't have the defensive utility I wanted and getting the two free turns it often needed was too tedious for what it brought to the table. As a result, I switched to defensive DD, a set that I have loved recently and currently believe is the best set. It checks what it needs to, though barely, but still has the offensive presence I want on a team like this.

When I first made this team earlier in the year I had still not used :rayquaza:

in any capacity and was surprised to see it here when I looked through the builder. It is currently a top 5 favourite mon in the tier for me so I decided to run a few games and see if it was worth keeping. It was and did its job of smashing through fat which the team at that point really needed. U-turn is appreciated early game to provide momentum and otherwise it is nearly always clicking ascent. Once you accept that it still generally does its job after taking a round or two of rocks it becomes much easier to play. It rarely takes attacks in the first place so it doesn't' hate the chip in game as much as on paper. Most of the attacks it is going to take will OHKO anyways.

I think originally this was a trapper :zygarde:

which really did not fit on this team. Don't really think :life-orb:

needs much of an introduction. It absolutely murks most mons slower than it and dismantles most stalls that don't fit hard counterplay v it as long as it doesn't get poisoned. It'll survive almost any strong neutral hit and is a great lead in general, but especially v HO. Decent anti-cheese mon as well.

Felt like the team needed a little more natural speed and a cleaner. The team really does not have the room for tera ground due to :rayquaza:

and

frequently needing to tera v offensive and defensive teams respectively.

Overall I'm not going to try to pretend I'm proud of this team nor that it is anything remotely resembling a world beater. Building with :giratina-origin:

as a whole makes things like :marshadow:

and the darks an absolute pain in the ass in the builder. Some teams I wanted to make but didn't have the time to:

:giratina-origin:

paraspam + breaker that takes advantage such as SD :rayquaza:

, fast

or SD

. I'm pretty keen on building some team along these lines in the near future though it likely won't feature :giratina-origin. It likely would have looked something like: :giratina-origin:

+2

Offensive :giratina-origin:

balance - It drops defog and frees up a moveslot for an extra status, utility, or an attacking move. A lot of the balances I've built recently manage but do not like seeing w/ SD :groudon-primal:

. It offers unique role compression that could result in some interesting builds. Something like :giratina-origin:

+ something for darks + something for marsh if not using :zygarde:

+ some taunt :arceus:

comes to mind off the top of my head.

What if hex :dragapult:

could be imported to Ubers - Different from the first idea as you're using paralysis/status to support a :giratina-origin:

clean/sweep rather than the other way around. :giratina-origin:

isn't a fast mon but w/ paralysis support it only really fears priority. Lets you sort of role compress :zacian-crowned:

+

. Less confident in this idea, but I think teams exist where it can work.

Lastly, the poll for next weeks mon will go up a day early as I'm a bit busy irl the next fews days. Team submissions will still be open for 24 more hours.

bumboclaat · Jan 4, 2024

Thanks to everyone who posted teams for our inaugural teambuilding competiton. We have three teams to vote on. If you plan to vote remember that we are employing a ranked voting format.

Our teams are:

Voting will be open until 05.00 GMT 07 Jan. Upon accouncing this weeks winner the next mon that we will build around will be announced. In the meantime please vote via the poll at the top of the thread so we can decide what next weeks mon will be. If you think a mon would be fun to build around just check the box. Feel free to pick as many or as little options as you'd like as there is no limit. Whichever mon receives the most votes will be what we build around next week!

In the meantime if you are interested in more discussion regarding the tier please join NatDexUbers discord! Although we do currently have a list of about 20 mons we are always looking for suggestions. If you have a mon you'd like to be considered for the teambuilding competition do not hesistate to reach out to bumboclaat , ANinjaDude, or Runo. A happy 2024 to you all

Edit so I'm not triple posting: 2>1

Weirdhamster · Jan 6, 2024

1>3>2

Zrp200 · Jan 6, 2024

2>1>3

Projects National Dex Ubers Teambuilding Competition [On Haitus Offensive Ho-Oh sumbissions still open]

Cycle 17 Poll

Arceus Water

Special Primal Groudon (can be mixed but must have spa evs)

Thunder Wave Primal Kyogre

Bulk Up Life Orb Marshadow

LO + 3A Eternatus

Defogless Giratina-O

Defog Yveltal

bumboclaat

bumboclaat

bumboclaat

bumboclaat

R8

Leads Natdex Other Tiers, not rly doing ndou stuff

BrakeSeer

09-10a

bumboclaat

09-10a

bumboclaat

bumboclaat

09-10a

Weirdhamster

Banned deucer.

Runo

bumboclaat

entrocefalo

Zrp200

S0A0M0I0

bumboclaat

BrakeSeer

09-10a

bumboclaat

bumboclaat

Weirdhamster

Banned deucer.

Zrp200

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