OU Monotype Viability Rankings

[Acast]

Nominating Hyper Offense Fighting for Mid Tier

Now that Talonflame is banned, I believe HO fighting should find it's way in Mid Tier due to the amount of coverage and offensive power the pokemon usually contain while having (above)average speed. Due to this, they can overcome their weaknesses a fair amount if the time.

I agree with Mid Tier for now. If Aegislash happens to get the boot (which I think we will find out about very soon), then it could even become High Tier in the near future because Fighting will run right through Steel as long as they carry a way to deal with Skarmory.
However, I strongly disagree with some of your match ups. Flying is a negative matchup for Fighting. It's true that Flying STAB moves aren't too common on Flying teams, but Fighting types can't really use their STAB moves unless Skarmory, Mega Gyarados, or Mega Char X happen to be on the field. And even then, Skarmory (the most common of the three by far) is not going to go down to just any Fighting move. Not to mention, Togekiss is on most Flying teams, and it has a 4x resistance to Fighting STAB as well as great special bulk to take Keldeo's hits and 2 offensive STAB moves that Fighting is weak to.
I made a short explanation of why I think Fighting vs Dragon is not in Fighting's favor when I nominated HO Dragon:

Fighting - Dragons as a whole typically outspeed and/or overpower Fighting types, so as long as you don't lose too much of your team to Ice Punches, this should be another relatively easy win.

Fighting types don't usually outspeed Dragons. On the contrary, Dragons usually outspeed Fighters because Choice Scarf and Dragon Dance is so common on Dragon teams. It's true, Ice Punch and Icy Wind as well as Terrakion are issues that Dragon users have to be careful of, but a Weakness Policy Dragonite can actually turn that fear into an advantage and, if it can get a speed boost somehow (DD, Tailwind, etc), it can sweep right through a Fighting team (assuming Terrakion either isn't scarfed or is weak enough to get KOd by Extremespeed). I can see why you would think that Fighting vs Dragon is a neutral matchup, but I personally believe Dragon has the advantage here. This one is mostly just my opinion though.

Dark: The only threats to Fighting here are Sableye, Greninja, and Aegislash.

Aegislash isn't allowed on Dark teams because it's a Steel/Ghost type. However, It does pose quite a problem for Fighting teams when their facing Steel. Also, you didn't mention Mandibuzz, which is on almost all Dark teams and it takes physical hits extremely well. Its special defense is also quite good, so it doesn't need to worry too much about Keldeo's Icy Wind, although I wouldn't keep Mandi in on Keldeo anyway.

 

[Spoonal]

I agree with Mid Tier for now. If Aegislash happens to get the boot (which I think we will find out about very soon), then it could even become High Tier in the near future because Fighting will run right through Steel as long as they carry a way to deal with Skarmory.
However, I strongly disagree with some of your match ups. Flying is a negative matchup for Fighting. It's true that Flying STAB moves aren't too common on Flying teams, but Fighting types can't really use their STAB moves unless Skarmory, Mega Gyarados, or Mega Char X happen to be on the field. And even then, Skarmory (the most common of the three by far) is not going to go down to just any Fighting move. Not to mention, Togekiss is on most Flying teams, and it has a 4x resistance to Fighting STAB as well as great special bulk to take Keldeo's hits and 2 offensive STAB moves that Fighting is weak to. Fair enough, though

Skarmory, however, is weak to Infernape, which is very common as a lead on fighting teams (from my experience), though I get your point on this. Togekiss can be a problem, but it gets hurt hard by rock (Terrakion), Steel (Lucario), and to a lesser effect, the Elemental Punches (Which many viable fighting types have access to.) and most teams carry at least one of those three.

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 338-402 (90.3 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 226-268 (60.4 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 284-336 (75.9 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Well developed flying teams can be a problem, but usually the only factor in if fighting will lose or win is how many pokemon Terrakion can't hit effectively.

As for Dragon, many fighting types are commonly scarfed too that hit Dragons effectively (Think Keldeo, Terrakion, and MoxieCross) and can take down the likes of Dragonite through them. (All of which and Keldeo/Terrakion can live a +3 E-Speed to revenge kill.) Dragon Dance poses as a problem, but they have a hard time setting up due to most of them not liking an Ice Punch or Stone Edge to the face. Latios is a problem though, as it outspends most fighting types and hits like a truck.

+3 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 267-315 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+3 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 133-157 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also, Edited Aegislash. Apologies. Mandibuzz, however usually gives pokemon like Scrafty and Conkeldurr an opportunity to set up due to it's poor offences, and it still needs to take a hit before whirlwinding. Also, if it roosts it gives Fighting a large opportunity to use it's beloved fighting STAB, making it hard to recover from damage.


I enjoy the response, and hope to see some more fighting teams in the future so I can unleash the wrath of Hawlucha >:D.

 

[Zewwok]

It's worth noting that a LO set from Terrakion 2HKOes with rocks, and a band set without. Plus megacham does 60-70% with HJK. Fighting does have the firepower to break skarm.

 

[Sae]

Okay guys just a heads up, but since we're implementing the new tiering forms of +,-,= ( ex: low mid tier, mid tier, high mid tier) the staff in charge of the thread have decided to rerank some of the old ones (especially electric cause the old method of just low, mid, high really didn't show off Electric well). For the most part, most of the ranked ones are fine I think with just a little bit of tweaking (meaning some might go to high mid tier and some will go to low mid tier). The staff is going to have a conversation about these and the other viable playstyles so we have a better preliminary list so that we can actually finish this thread up. This doesn't mean that your opinions won't count because as I said we are disccusing a preliminary list which is still up to debate; we just hope it might make things a bit easier on some who don't frequent the forums.

Edit: The conversation might take a bit of time to organize since the staff is busy with irl and we all can't be on at the same time. Hopefully soon though.

 

[diabolic]

Nominating Hyper Offensive Fighting for high tier
With the recent ban of aegislash, and a ban of talonflame, fighting is completely able to compete against the top types in game.

Positive MatchesNormal:Fighting vs Normal is one of the most one sided battles in monotype. Mega Medicham and company will be able to easy slay out normal with STAB fighting.

Rock:In the same position as normal, rock has no walls that are able to counter fighting successfully. Paired with a couple sashs, and mega aerodactyl(if used) rock will be able to trade a few KO's, but not enough to pull a win out by any means.

Steel:The it factor for this matchup is hands down keldeo. Keldeo's ability to switch from special to physical with a sacred sword/surf core makes it key in breaking a steel core. Another factor is the recent ban of aegislash. Before aegislash was banned, this matchup could go either way, but now with mega medicham being able to freely slay along with keldeo?There's no indecisiveness on this one for me.

Water:If you find yourself in this position, it should be rather easy for you to bring out a win. When you're vs'ing water while using fighting, the key point in the battle is breloom. As long as you can manage to get breloom in a sweeping position, this game should consistently go to fighting.

Fire:This matchup is where the talonflame ban shines for fighting. Fire has no safe switch for terrakion, meaning if you're able to get your rocks up and hit a few stone edges along with support from keldeo and megacham, this match might be a bit closer than the others but it's definitely still a match in fighting's favor.

Electric:With virtually 0 defensive mons to keep up with fighting's powerful physical attacks, electric is going to struggle in this match. As long as you can keep momentum in your favor this game should be a breeze for you with every mon on standard fighting shining.

Neutral Matchups
Flying:Even though flying is considered a 'type advantage' to fighting, I believe this match goes either way. One of the core reasons behind this is flying stab isn't used much on flying. Teams usually prefer to use flying's diverse coverage over stab coverage. The only two walls flying has on fighting would be skarmory and togekiss, both defeatable at this point in the meta.

Dark:Dark is one of the few types able to successfully wall fighting. Superwalls like mandibuzz and prankster sableye can easily shutdown fighting in this game. Mandibuzz is the win condition for dark in this match, and SubCM Keldeo would be the win condition for fighting.

Negative MatchupsPoison:Bulky poison with weezing and amoongus can quickly shut down fighting's HO. Fighting has little to no SE hits on poison, which makes it extremely difficult to bring out a win in this matchup.

Fairy:Fairy vs Fighting is probably fightings worst match. Dual screens klefki can allow one of fairy's many bulky attackers to quicksweep fighting and take take it easily. Fighting's best chance of winning this game is if keldeo or breloom can get in a sweeping position.

Psychic:This is fighting's 2nd worst matchup. With some of the most bulk in the metagame atm (mew, slowbro,) and paired with one of the best special sweepers who carries a 4x resistance to fighting, gardevoir and company go to town on fighting.

Conclusion:As of the recent bans HO fighting continues to get better and better, and is able to fare against the best types among the meta. After the talonflame ban fighting's offense truly shines and with aegislash no longer a threat, fighting may be able to run the best hyper offense we've seen so far in gen 6.

 

[Acast]

Nominating Hyper Offensive Fighting for high tier
With the recent ban of aegislash, and a ban of talonflame, fighting is completely able to compete against the top types in game.

Positive MatchesNormal:Fighting vs Normal is one of the most one sided battles in monotype. Mega Medicham and company will be able to easy slay out normal with STAB fighting.

Rock:In the same position as normal, rock has no walls that are able to counter fighting successfully. Paired with a couple sashs, and mega aerodactyl(if used) rock will be able to trade a few KO's, but not enough to pull a win out by any means.

Steel:The it factor for this matchup is hands down keldeo. Keldeo's ability to switch from special to physical with a sacred sword/surf core makes it key in breaking a steel core. Another factor is the recent ban of aegislash. Before aegislash was banned, this matchup could go either way, but now with mega medicham being able to freely slay along with keldeo?There's no indecisiveness on this one for me.

Water:If you find yourself in this position, it should be rather easy for you to bring out a win. When you're vs'ing water while using fighting, the key point in the battle is breloom. As long as you can manage to get breloom in a sweeping position, this game should consistently go to fighting.

Fire:This matchup is where the talonflame ban shines for fighting. Fire has no safe switch for terrakion, meaning if you're able to get your rocks up and hit a few stone edges along with support from keldeo and megacham, this match might be a bit closer than the others but it's definitely still a match in fighting's favor.

Electric:With virtually 0 defensive mons to keep up with fighting's powerful physical attacks, electric is going to struggle in this match. As long as you can keep momentum in your favor this game should be a breeze for you with every mon on standard fighting shining.

Neutral Matchups
Flying:Even though flying is considered a 'type advantage' to fighting, I believe this match goes either way. One of the core reasons behind this is flying stab isn't used much on flying. Teams usually prefer to use flying's diverse coverage over stab coverage. The only two walls flying has on fighting would be skarmory and togekiss, both defeatable at this point in the meta.

Dark:Dark is one of the few types able to successfully wall fighting. Superwalls like mandibuzz and prankster sableye can easily shutdown fighting in this game. Mandibuzz is the win condition for dark in this match, and SubCM Keldeo would be the win condition for fighting.

Negative MatchupsPoison:Bulky poison with weezing and amoongus can quickly shut down fighting's HO. Fighting has little to no SE hits on poison, which makes it extremely difficult to bring out a win in this matchup.

Fairy:Fairy vs Fighting is probably fightings worst match. Dual screens klefki can allow one of fairy's many bulky attackers to quicksweep fighting and take take it easily. Fighting's best chance of winning this game is if keldeo or breloom can get in a sweeping position.

Psychic:This is fighting's 2nd worst matchup. With some of the most bulk in the metagame atm (mew, slowbro,) and paired with one of the best special sweepers who carries a 4x resistance to fighting, gardevoir and company go to town on fighting.

Conclusion:As of the recent bans HO fighting continues to get better and better, and is able to fare against the best types among the meta. After the talonflame ban fighting's offense truly shines and with aegislash no longer a threat, fighting may be able to run the best hyper offense we've seen so far in gen 6.

I'm a bit too tired to make a clear/thought-out response to this, but just one thing I'd like to add: If Mega Mawile gets banned, Fairy's usage will drastically decrease, meaning Fighting gets even better. Fighting seems to be the luckiest type this generation. It's getting the biggest benefits out of each decision that smogon makes (outside of Mega Lucario's ban of course). Without going into too much detail, I agree that HO Fighting should be high tier.

 

[Not Zer0]

Fighting types don't usually outspeed Dragons. On the contrary, Dragons usually outspeed Fighters because Choice Scarf and Dragon Dance is so common on Dragon teams. It's true, Ice Punch and Icy Wind as well as Terrakion are issues that Dragon users have to be careful of, but a Weakness Policy Dragonite can actually turn that fear into an advantage and, if it can get a speed boost somehow (DD, Tailwind, etc), it can sweep right through a Fighting team (assuming Terrakion either isn't scarfed or is weak enough to get KOd by Extremespeed). I can see why you would think that Fighting vs Dragon is a neutral matchup, but I personally believe Dragon has the advantage here. This one is mostly just my opinion though.

As an avid Dragon user, I'm going to have to disagree. Ice moves are too common to just say Dragon has the advantage. Unfortunately enough, Dragon's only neutrality to ice is weak to fighting, meaning fighting should have 0 problem spamming ice moves. Pokemon that are difficult to OHKO like Scrafty and Conkeldurr can nearly guarantee a KO on something if you're not set up when they're sent in, and pokemon like Mega Medicham and Keldeo are fast enough to put serious hurt on with Icy Wind/Ice Punch, and Fake Out from the aforementioned Mega Medi can and will end your WP Dragonite if it's taken a hit prior. Let's look at the calcs for this.

252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 198-234 (61.1 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 169-201 (52.1 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 146-174 (45 - 53.7%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO

While these are not OHKOs, it puts you in Mega Medicham death range

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fake Out vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 76-90 (23.4 - 27.7%) -- 82.2% chance to 4HKO

"That's only 25% Zer0!" Unfortunately for you, a +2 Espeed does not OHKO Mega Medicham, which means (assuming they carry it) they can get you with Bullet Punch the next turn.

+2 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 224-264 (85.8 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

If your Dnite isn't out/is already dead, you'll just kill it with Scarfchomp, right? Nope.

252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 225-265 (86.2 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Your chances here are just as bad as with +2 Espeed. Fortunately, you can get around this with Rough Skin, if you predict their fake out. Problem is, some players will go for Ice Punch instead of fake out, so a switch may result in a dead Chomp.

At least we have Choice Scarf Kyurem, who actually guarantees a KO! (At the cost of a portion of your health if they have bullet punch. If you don't have a scarf, they can always HJK and that's a dead Kyurem too.)

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 274-324 (104.9 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-B: 510-602 (112.3 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (ouch)
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 146-174 (37.2 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Of course, not all fighting monos spam Ice moves like there is no tomorrow, but they tend to have at least one or two, and occasionally a scarf Terrakion to top it off, who is more a pest than a problem, because Lati@s exists. Even then, Latios can only take a neutral hit or two due to his relative physical frailty, and he will not take super effective physical hits, although you might get lucky and take an Icy Wind.
Speaking of Icy Wind, it's enough to OHKO most 4x weak dragons that don't have investment (Garchomp, Salamence.) Even if you switched in Kyurem, if it's not a choice Keldeo, you get Sacred Sworded. You could double switch in to a Lati@s to see if it is Choice, but at that point you're wasting health that you need, because most dragons lack reliable recovery.

It's not all bullshit for Dragon. Due to its sheer raw power, it can usually land 1 for 1 KOs (Usually O-2HKOs) on a Fighting team, although you obviously have to watch out for the threats I mentioned. A handy dandy powerful scarfer like Kyurem or MoxieMence can go leagues and bounds, and as mentioned by A wild Castform, WP Dragonite can out serious hurt on a Fighting team, unless they defeat it in the ways he and I mentioned. Honorable mentions go out to Cobalion and Hawlucha, who can each be little devils in their own way (Outrage resist, and an Unburden Swords Dance Hawlucha is capable of sweeping if Multiscale is down.)

 

[Acast]

Since posting my Fighting vs Dragon thing, I have come to realize that Fighting actually does have at least a neutral matchup with Dragon, if not an advantage. I've been trying out a lot of new types recently and I just recently got into Fighting. To be honest, I didn't realize how good Fighting was until I made a team. So yes, I agree with you Zer0, but I just have to nit-pick one little thing you said.

Unfortunately enough, Dragon's only neutrality to ice is weak to fighting, meaning fighting should have 0 problem spamming ice moves.

Of course you are talking about Kyurem, and it's true that it's weak to Fighting moves, but you forgot that Kingdra is also neutral to ice and it's not weak to fighting. It also has decent bulk, so it's not too frail either.

But overall, I do agree with you.

 

[Not Zer0]

but you forgot that Kingdra is also neutral to ice and it's not weak to fighting. It also has decent bulk, so it's not too frail either.

You're right, I did forget Kingdra, but the problem with Kingdra is if it does take an ice move, most fighting types will be able to outspeed it and KO it anyway, and it doesn't have close to the bulk of Kyurem. It's not Lucario level bulk, and it's certainly usable, but it does leave something to be desired.

 

[diabolic]

Nominating Balanced Fairy for high tier
Another type that seems to get better and better since the aegislash ban is fairy. Fairy's pure consistency gives you a type that if used properly, can hang among the top tiers.

The positive matchups
Fighting: While this matchup isn't a breeze with things like cobalion in play, fairy vs fighting will still heavily favor fairy. It's resistance to fighting's offensive stab moves will be key in this matchup, along with the fact that most fairy types carry a stab move each.

Dark:This game brings up the same point as fighting. Fairy will be able to handle dark attack very easy, and there isn't a dark wall to handle fairy spam.

Ground:Looking at this matchup on paper, you'd think this would be 50/50. But if you're able to get belly drum azumarill in a power position, which is quite easy vs ground, it can take out the entire team. There is an arguement with gastrodon having storm drain, but unless gastrodon is speed invested, azumarill goes to town on ground.

Dragon:Fairy's immunity to dragon makes this match an absolute breeze. Fairy is successfully able to outwall and fairy spam to bring this game to a win.

Rock:Rock has almost 0 checks to belly drum azumarill, and even mega mawile can sweep rock. It's just a matter of getting one of the sweepers in a power position, considering they both break rock's core defense.

Bug:Bug has little to no checks to something like togekiss. Togekiss' ability to completely slay out bug leads me to believe that it favors fairy. There are chances that volcarona and mega pinsir can both dent a fairy team for the rest of bug to clean up, but if i had to put money on this kind of match I'd give it to fairy.

Overveiw: fairy has a nice list of types to match up well against. But in my opinion, this isn't what makes fairy a top tier type.

Neutral Matchups
Electric:Electric is a match that can go either way, basically since both types are usually structured the same ways. Electric and fairy both have a plethora of special bulk and can both trade KO's on eachother. For fairy to win this matchup, mawile needs to be a key sweeper due to azumarill's weakness to electric.

Steel:This is another one of fairy's 'type disadvantages.' But after the recent aegislash ban, if you're well covered on fire type moves this matchup is 50/50 simply because of fairy being able to hit steel SE'ly better than steel can hit fairy. Now, one thing that DOES have to go fairy's way in this matchup is scizor. If scizor goes down without taking too many fairy's with it, fairy has a really good shot of being able to take the matchup. Also considering the fact that very few steel mons run stab steel attacks, fairy can easily go head to head with this type.

Water:For the same reasons as electric, I feel like water vs fairy is a 50/50 match. One of fairy's many specially bulky mons can hold their own against a swift swim team, and balanced water carries the same kind of structure fairy does.

Ice:Fairy vs Ice is one of the most even matchups possible. Belly Drum Azu can go massive here, but ice has a good amount of fairy checks to go against it.

Overview:I believe that fairy's vast amount of neutral/positive matchups give it a huge advantage, and allow it to fare at the top of the type foodchain.

Bad Matchups
Poison:Poison's SE stab demolishes poison. There are a few hopes for fairy in this match however. Mawile or Clefable would have to get setup, and get into a sweeping point. Slayers like nidoking can easily shut down poison.

Fire:Fire's resistance to fairy spam proves valuable in this match. Few special walls on fairy can handle char x, and azu sweeping in the sun can become quit difficult.

Overview:Fairy has very few bad matchups. This allows for fairy(within the right hands) to easily be within the circle of top types.

 

[Not Zer0]

Dragon:Fairy's immunity to dragon makes this match an absolute breeze. Fairy is successfully able to outwall and fairy spam to bring this game to a win.

Outwall, you say? Just because you can't use your STAB doesn't make the game so one sided like you're making it out to be. It's like you've forgotten Dragon has access to some of the best physical bruisers in the tier, and fairy isn't exactly hot on physical defense. It has intimidate Granbull and Mawile, but they can only switch in for drops so many times before they're worn down.

I'll be using Mega Garchomp and Kyurem-B as my example pokemon.
Kyurem handles the mons about the same as MegaChomp, but lacks a boosting move so getting through through the initimidates and reflects can be difficult, but most kyurem go mixed with ice beam and/ or earth power.

252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 306-362 (96.2 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (even with Reflect that's a 2HKO, not to mention some MegaChomp variants have Swords Dance to get around this, as well as Intimidate)
0 SpA Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klefki: 182-216 (57.2 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (If Klefki Reflects that makes this a 3HKO, assuming they use Light Screen the next turn, although dual screens will be a pain in the ass while dealing with the other pokemon)

252 Atk Mega Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 280-330 (74.8 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (If the Dragon player predicts Toge coming in and lands the Stone Edge, Toge is pretty much screwed.)
252 Atk Kyurem Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 182-216 (48.6 - 57.7%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Iron head is a little more reliable than Stone Edge, not to mention flinches.)

-1 252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Granbull: 169-199 (44 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Even if you come in you're getting hurt, and Granbull doesn't have the most reliable recovery (lol rest))
-1 252 Atk Kyurem Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Granbull: 148-176 (38.5 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 306-362 (100.6 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO (you're going to need a bigger boat clean switch for Mawile to dream of coming in.)
0 SpA Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mawile: 260-308 (85.5 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 285-336 (102.5 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Since speed changes don't affect turn 1 of mega, Chomp will outspeed unless Garde is a protect variant.)
252 Atk Kyurem Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 248-294 (89.2 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

-1 252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 218-260 (71.7 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Yay, more clean switch need!)
0 SpA Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 170-200 (55.9 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Mega Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Whimsicott: 236-278 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (+2 Earthquake has an 18.8% chance to do the job, it really depends on your set here.)
0 SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Whimsicott: 308-366 (117.5 - 139.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (ouch)

252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 241-285 (59.6 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I hope you don't use Belly Drum.)
252 Atk Kyurem Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 262-310 (64.8 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (The monster barely gets by with a 3HKO from an unboosted Chomp with max defense)
252 Atk Kyurem Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 154-182 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So what you're seeing here is that Mega Garchomp and Kyurem can 1-2HKO the common fairy mons, and MegaChomp barely misses a 2HKO on invested Granbull and Clef, which means if they don't have that investment it's a 2HKO, and Chomp will outspeed, meaning they'll probably lose if they don't have a safe switch.

Another common theme we see here is a lot of Fairies need a safe switch lest they be nailed by the appropriate coverage move and get destroyed the next turn.

Garchomp and Kyurem being able to reliably O-2HKO most fairies makes for a huge strain on the fairy user, especially if Chomp packs Swords Dance, which, if you've boosted prior to the intimidator coming in, makes for a nice easy OHKO, and bumps all the aforementioned 2HKOs in the calcs to OHKOs. Whimsicott is your best bet for stopping SD Chomp, although Chomp has teammates like Goodra and Kyurem to deal with it.

Speaking of Goodra, honorable mention goes out to it as it has access to super effective coverage on every single fairy with Sludge Bomb/Wave and Flamethrower, which does solid damage and avoids Intimidates.

Your Fairy STAB may be a problem, but you can always remember Dragon has things to sack too (Hydreigon is pretty useless without Flash Cannon,) so you'll be on your toes when that -1 Kyurem comes back in all renewed and takes the dog tags of your Granbull.

Now, I'm not saying Fairy has no chance here (as it most certainly does, I've lost to many a fairy team,) you made it out to be a one-sided battle. If anything, this is a neutral matchup, if not in Dragon's favor due to overpreparation for fairies (I've seen a lot of dragons running Poison Jab/Iron Head,) though arguably that's gimmicky and shouldn't be considered.

tl;dr Dragon has sufficient power to muscle through a fairy team even WITHOUT it's lovely Scarf Outrages.

 

[diabolic]

Lol fairy hard outslays dragon. Considering a lot of dragons are ran with choice items, it's pretty easy to switch cores.

 

[Not Zer0]

Lol fairy hard outslays dragon. Considering a lot of dragons are ran with choice items, it's pretty easy to switch cores.

You didn't read my post too thoroughly, did you?

I'm sure you have a grand ol' time battling some Dragon users, as most Dragon users (especially on the low ladder) are notorious for running teams with large amounts of Choice items and sashes. If your Dragon team meets these criteria, there's either A) a really good reason for it or B) You're bad at Dragon mono.

I used Mega Garchomp as one of my examples (obviously choiced imo.)
On Kyurem, a choice set is viable but there are other viable sets like Bulky, LO, Power Herb Freeze Shock (deceptively good), and then a Band/Scarf/Specs. I can tell you right now if I calced LO Kyurem-B instead of another item, it would turn some of those 2HKOs in to OHKOs and noncertain OHKOs to certain OHKOs. It's powerful.
Goodra can pull off a Specs set, but it sacrifices some of the tanking ability of Goodra, which is VERY important, in my experience, so Assault Vest is my preferred option.

Since fairies have a rather general low base speed (the fastest fairy coming to mind is Mega Gardevoir (100) and then normal Garde and Toge (80) after that,) you'll be being outsped a lot even on safe switches, meaning the Dragons have plenty of time to KO you before you can retaliate unless you are using a scarf yourself.

This is just the 3 I covered in my post. I would go on a tirade about advantages and disadvantages of certain Choiced dragons but that is a topic for another post. My point here is I clearly delineated in my above post why fairy doesn't "outslay" Dragon. You should go read it diabolic.

 

[Acast]

You didn't read my post too thoroughly, did you?

I'm sure you have a grand ol' time battling some Dragon users, as most Dragon users (especially on the low ladder) are notorious for running teams with large amounts of Choice items and sashes. If your Dragon team meets these criteria, there's either A) a really good reason for it or B) You're bad at Dragon mono.

I used Mega Garchomp as one of my examples (obviously choiced imo.)
On Kyurem, a choice set is viable but there are other viable sets like Bulky, LO, Power Herb Freeze Shock (deceptively good), and then a Band/Scarf/Specs. I can tell you right now if I calced LO Kyurem-B instead of another item, it would turn some of those 2HKOs in to OHKOs and noncertain OHKOs to certain OHKOs. It's powerful.
Goodra can pull off a Specs set, but it sacrifices some of the tanking ability of Goodra, which is VERY important, in my experience, so Assault Vest is my preferred option.

Since fairies have a rather general low base speed (the fastest fairy coming to mind is Mega Gardevoir (100) and then normal Garde and Toge (80) after that,) you'll be being outsped a lot even on safe switches, meaning the Dragons have plenty of time to KO you before you can retaliate unless you are using a scarf yourself.

This is just the 3 I covered in my post. I would go on a tirade about advantages and disadvantages of certain Choiced dragons but that is a topic for another post. My point here is I clearly delineated in my above post why fairy doesn't "outslay" Dragon. You should go read it diabolic.

Regardless of whether Fairies can "outslay" Dragon or not, you do have to admit that Fairy is at a significant advantage, don't you? Yes, Dragon has ways of dealing with Fairy, but it is still a very difficult matchup for the Dragon team.

 

[Not Zer0]

Regardless of whether Fairies can "outslay" Dragon or not, you do have to admit that Fairy is at a significant advantage, don't you? Yes, Dragon has ways of dealing with Fairy, but it is still a very difficult matchup for the Dragon team.

It really comes down to team build. If you're running the generic Choice dragon team then you probably will lose, but a team that is sufficiently prepared for a fairy team should at least be able to come out on top at least around half of the time. After all, covering for your weaknesses is one of the main points of Monotype, so it isn't unreasonable for a Dragon player to be overprepared for Fairy, although the degree of overpreparation can hinder your team greatly vs other types. (I wish Dragon could do the same for Ground and Ice ;-;)

Drawing from my personal experience as a Dragon user who runs all 3 of the Pokemon I mentioned in my first post, I typically don't lose to fairy teams unless they run something I didn't expect like a Sash Granbull (rip Megachomp,) or a Scarf Togekiss, for example. Admittedly, I am slightly overprepared in running all 3 of what I consider to be solid Fairy killers. Even with 2/3 of my murderers, a win vs fairy is still possible (I've 6/5-0'd my fair share of fairy teams.)

As my final statement, this is a neutral matchup. It's similar to a war where the side with the bigger bombs wins. Fairy has its share of Dragon slayers (or all of them with a STAB move really,) but Dragon has more than enough muscle to smash Fairy before they can strike back due to their relative frailty (at least on the physical side,) which is a huge thing for Dragon and is honestly the only reason this could ever be in Dragon's favor unless you run Scarf Mega Garchomp.

 

[Acast]

As my final statement, this is a neutral matchup. It's similar to a war where the side with the bigger bombs wins. Fairy has its share of Dragon slayers (or all of them with a STAB move really,) but Dragon has more than enough muscle to smash Fairy before they can strike back due to their relative frailty (at least on the physical side,) which is a huge thing for Dragon and is honestly the only reason this could ever be in Dragon's favor unless you run Scarf Mega Garchomp.

I strongly disagree that this is a neutral matchup. Most types can over prepare for a specific weakness and win against that weakness a good amount of the time, but that doesn't mean you should over-prepare for it. As you said, over-preparing for a specific match-up will make a team more vulnerable to other match-ups. A typical Dragon team is at a significant disadvantage when facing a typical Fairy team. However, I see that we are both very set in our opinions and won't be able to sway the other's thinking, so I'll just leave the Dragon vs Fairy discussion alone.

 

[EV]

1) This is a viability ranking thread, not a church.
2) Standard OU bans are made with nothing else in mind than standard OU. Don't complain about them in Other Metagames.

I hear this thread is changing, but please don't crap all over it in the meantime.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

The current Mono Viability Thread as it is now will soon be closed temporarily and be absent for a undefined span of time in order to create an improved, more accurate format. That said, the MVC Team and I will be developing a Preliminary Ranking List, since this Thread has had a lack of timely response from the Community. From there, the Community can give feedback on whether they agree or disagree, and change the list as it sees fit. The new Thread will also serve as a Community Teambuilding hub where you can share model Teams.

With this method, the Thread can be a complete utility instead of waiting 1000 years for it to shape itself, and you guys can just give your feedback on it and share Teams that you think are examples of the Types and they're play-styles. So until then, this Thread is closed.