Other Features Smogon ASB--The Dragons

[AOPSUser]

Summary: As Gen VI changes are being finalized implemented into Smogon ASB, with new Pokemon and changes to old ones, I want to reflect on my experience with the Dragon-type in Gen V in ASB, and think ahead for Gen VI. In this article I plan to give a thorough breakdown of each of the Dragons in Gen V's ASB, and look ahead into the new Gen VI ASB. I plan on discussing raw data such as stats, abilities, movepool options, and typing, as well as things like investment needed to be good. I will only discuss released Dragons (basically: non-legendary ones).

Gen V Dragons:

Dragonite:
-Has a gigantic movepool.
-Has amazing offensive stats, above average defenses.
-Has Multiscale.
-Movepool is filled with useful moves, such as Fly, Weather Ball, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Roost, Agility, and of course the classic Outrage, Dragon Claw, Extremespeed, and Dragon Dance.
-Can be a bit difficult to raise as not much stands out about its pre-evolutions.
-Typing can be a bit iffy especially since a lot of Pokemon get some Ice-type move (usually Ice Punch or Ice Beam), but offensive presence and Multiscale make it worthwhile.

Cyclohm:
-Unique typing gives it many defensive and offensive advantages.
-Good bulk makes it hard to take down.
-Good special attacking presence along with a great movepool (Weather Ball, Hydro Pump, Magnet Rise, Torment, Thunderbolt, Discharge, Ice Beam, Flamethrower)
-Its Hidden Ability had to be changed because Sheer Force Cyclohm was too good.
-Great defensive abilities.
-Amazingly versatile.
-Weak to Earthquake, which a crapton of things get.
-A bit iffy when raising due to the low stats of the pre-evolutions.
-Still amazing, and amazingly popular to boot.

Garchomp:
-Great speed.
-Decent Special Attack with good special attacking movepool.
-Good typing defensively, but 4x weak to Ice, which is very common.
-Physical movepool is not much compared to other physical attackers.
-Rough Skin is cool.
-Defensive stats are only average.
-Gible is hard to raise, but Gabite can hold its own very well.

Hydreigon:
-Awesome mixed offenses.
-Good offensive movepool.
-Good speed.
-Unique typing, while not the best defensively, is quite good offensively.
-Only average bulk.
-Hustle makes its pre-evolutions hit pretty damn hard.

Kingdra:
-Nothing special about its stats.
-Dragon Scale boosts offenses and buffs up Sniper.
-Focus Energy allows it to auto-crit, which, with Dragon Scale and Sniper, is an automatic +7 BAP to any of its attacks, and makes Draco Meteor spammable.
-It can set up Rain and can use Rain amazingly well.
-Movepool is not wide at all, but it has what it needs.
-Amazingly easy to raise thanks to Sniper and Focus Energy, as well as above average stats.

Haxorus:
-Awesome Attack stat, good Speed.
-Unnerve prevents use of Berries, which are used more in ASB. Mold Breaker is awesome as always. Rivalry is a bit shaky but you can always fight in 1 Ability battles.
-Movepool? What movepool?
-Gets the unholy Aerial Ace+Guillotine, Earthquake, Outrage, Dragon Claw, and Superpower, but outside of those it doesn't really have much options.
-Axew is nothing special, but Fraxure gets Rank 5 Attack, which is more than enough to sustain itself until evolution.
-Pure-Dragon is an interesting typing both offensively and defensively, and on both ends there will be a lot of neutral hits.

Salamence:
-Great offenses on both ends.
-Intimidate adds to physical bulk.
-Great speed.
-Faces competition with Dragonite, who is bulkier and has the exact same offensive stats, and has a much wider movepool.
-Moxie lets it hit hard after getting a kill, and while it isn't that outstanding in ASB it's still noticeable.
-Difficult to raise, as Bagon is nothing special and Shelgon just lacks power.

Altaria:
-Use Dragonite

Flygon:
-Levitate makes it immune to Earthquake and Bulldoze and lessens damage from Earth Power.
-Great speed tier.
-Above average Attack, decent stats overall.
-Decent movepool on both sides, including Fissure, Superpower, and the traditional moves.
-Most notably, it gets U-Turn.
-Has much trouble differentiating itself from Garchomp.
-Trapinch hits really hard but Vibrava lacks the stats, so it could be hard to raise.

Druddigon:
-Amazing Attack stat, Sheer Force, and Mold Breaker.
-Awful Special Attack and Speed.
-Gets moves like Superpower and Sucker Punch.
-No pre-evolutions, so no need to worry about raising it.
-Pure-Dragon is an interesting typing both offensively and defensively, and on both ends there will be a lot of neutral hits.
-Faces much competition from Haxorus.
-Rough Skin lets it do some work defensively, but its defensive stats are nothing to brag about.

Gen VI changes:
-Fairy-type introduced.
-Draco Meteor weakened.
-Hidden Power, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Blizzard, Overheat, Thunder, Hurricane, etc. weakened.
-New powerful Mega Evolutions like Mega Aggron and Mega Mawile give Dragons some trouble.
-Garchomp got a Mega Evolution.
-Brand new Dragons like Tyrantrum and Dragalge.
-Mega Charizard X is part Dragon.
-Base stat rank inflation.

How changes affect old Dragons:

Dragonite:
-Still amazing in anything it does.
-Stat ranks inflate around it, but not much has Rank 6 in any stat naturally.
-Special movepool weakened.

Cyclohm:
-Stat rank inflation gives it Rank 5 Defense, making it even more durable.
-Special movepool weakened.
-Weather is still really valuable in this Gen.

Garchomp:
-New Mega Evolution with unbelievable offensive stats.
-Speed lowered but in ASB this matters a lot less.
-Under Sand Mega Garchomp gets Sand Veil and Sand Force, meaning that not only will your opponent miss more, but you will hit for unholy amounts of damage.
-Garchompite costs a bit of CC though.

Kingdra:
-Special movepool weakened.
-Still hits for a lot of damage with a single turn of setup.

Hydreigon:
-Special movepool weakened.
-4x weak to Fairy.
-Steel no longer resist its STAB.

Haxorus:
-Stat rank inflation means that Rank 6 offers a 1.5 boost instead of 1 now.
-Natural Rank 6 Attack is still quite a boon.
-One of two Dragons that learns Poison Jab, the other being Garchomp.

Salamence:
-Special movepool weakened.
-Still struggles to establish itself over Dragonite.

Altaria:
-Only Dragon to get Fairy-type moves.
-Keep using Dragonite instead.

Flygon:
-Stats simply become underwhelming this gen.
-Still has a decent movepool on both sides.
-Garchomp basically destroys most of Flygon's niches now, especially with its new Mega Evolution.

Druddigon:
-Stat rank inflation means that with an Adamant nature, it hits the Rank 6 benchmark.
-Still struggles to differentiate itself Haxorus.
-Fairies wreck it badly, resisting its main moves.

New Dragons

Charizard:
-Mega Charizard X has dual Rank 5 offenses.
-It keeps Blaze and Solar Power.
-Good speed stat.
-Tough Claws boosts its Flare Blitz to insane levels, especially under Sun.
-Outrage is nice too.

Dragalge:
-Awesome Special Defense, interesting typing.
-Fears no Fairies.
-Adaptability allows it to hit quite hard off its Rank 4 Special Attack.
-Its Speed stat is atrocious.
-Skrelp is easy to raise if you unlock Adaptability, but struggles otherwise.
-Unique Poison Point+Poison Touch combo.

Tyrantrum:
-Rock Head+Head Smash is awesome, and a Weight Class of 6 means that while it may not hit as hard as Aggron, it still hits really hard.
-Strong Jaw boosts Elemental Fangs and Crunch, for decent coverage.
-Has a lot of physical power and physical bulk.
-Subpar Speed and bad Special Defense leave it vulnerable to its weaknesses.

Goodra:
-Gooey slows down opponents that try to smack it with contact moves.
-Sap Sipper gives Goodra an immunity.
-Hydration is good since Rain is pretty easy to keep up, and it doesn't even need Hydration most of the time.
-Amazing Special Defense, good attacking stats, decent Defense, Gooey helps with Speed.
-Pure Dragon is a good defensive typing on Goodra.
-Goomy is nothing special and Sliggoo only has a standout Special Defense stat, but their movepool means that raising it isn't too hard.

Noivern:
-Very fast.
-Gets powerful attacks like Draco Meteor, Hurricane, and Boomburst, which somewhat make up for its Special Attack, which doesn't really stand out.
-Frisk neutralizes the opponent's item.
-Infiltrator bypasses Subs and Screens.
-Telepathy is very useful in Doubles+
-Defenses are only average, and Speed is its only standout stat.
-Attracts Ice-type attacks and can't take them.

 

[skylight]

Flora Birkal just tagging y'all because Bummer and I don't really know anything about it and you guys understand it better than we do!

On another note it looks fine to me but I don't know ASB soooo I'll leave it up to 'em to say if it's okay or no.

...at least I think they do ASB.

 

[Flora]

Hmmmm, I've been thinking for a couple of days but I'm still not really sure. I think ASB articles should be introductory and pretty general because ASB, while active and has its own fun, is... I'm not sure how to word this but "frowned" upon by a lot of the competitive peeps and some others as well. So I guess what we're trying to do with current ASB articles is trying to sell people into the system, not really get in-depth about stuff like this (however nice it is).

However, we did get an article from zarator about forgotten "OU" members who excel in ASB (issue 22 or something like that). This gives the impression of "wow I can use crap like Aggron and Beedrill and succeed in standard?" And it attempts to lure the reader into trying out ASB (or that's the intention) that you can use cool Pokemon. We have an article in the making about ASB as well, from Box in fact. Box's article is covering the next generation update (much in the same way as Deck Knight's ASB article), which includes a few of the stuff that is already mentioned here (the new Dragons) but I don't think it's going into very specific details unlike yours. His article mentions most of the changes into the system, and huge change is always very interesting and can gather a lot of attention!

You put a lot of effort into making this skeleton and I would so so hate to reject it. I'm just thinking most of the reading audience would read over this and say "I don't really care" and would only attract a few number of people (probably the players who already play ASB). As the article is standing now, it's not going to be attracting more possible people in. But then again, you have a right to make the article and there's nothing really wrong with it outside of what I mentioned.

I think it's best if I asked this. Do you think you can attract people into ASB by talking about the qualities of all the Dragons? Or better yet, do you think people will be interested in reading this article?

 

[AOPSUser]

Dragon is definitely one of the most popular and most hyped-up typings there is in Pokemon, right next to Psychic and Fairy, and that's mostly due to its "legendary" or "mythical" qualities. And then there's shit like Altaria (which I didn't know was Dragon until my friend used one against me. In Gen 5). I know that a lot of people simply get excited for Dragons, and the fact that this gen there are SIX new Dragons including Megas (damn I completely forgot Ampharos when I wrote that) in this gen, might make people want to use them.

And they are probably the most relevant type historically because of the Sheer Force Cyclohm thing. People still joke about that.

Also IDK about effort, I know I didn't particularly do much with the skeleton--I only put down some of my experiences and looked at Speed. As you can tell from my Altaria thing (but seriously, use Dragonite).

And...Mega Ampharos is Dragon? About 10 people in Smogon remember that lol. (inb4 I missed like 5 other mons)

 

[Flora]

Dragons are one of the most popular types, agreed. People will definitely enjoy reading an article about the Dragons of (Official Smogon Tier here). But I question if they will be interested in reading about how the Dragons do in... ASB. It doesn't seem to be in the interest of the majority of people. If ASB was more widespread and more welcomed, then I wouldn't mind. ASB should stick to what I mentioned last post though: more general and luring.

You can tweak your topic, however. You can handpick a selection of the new Pokemon that the sixth generation has granted us and how they affect/play in ASB. By doing this, you can keep a Dragon or two, but it won't drag as much (I mean, that's all the Dragons you have listed there, that's A LOT! ... also did not intend to make a pun lol) and your article will keep different readers interested due to the widened variety.

Another option (and my most preferred) is to get in contact with Box and ask to write his "The newest 'OPs' of ASB" section as he hasn't done it yet (and hopefully won't soon haha). As it's currently what appears to be a small subsection, it will be expanded into a big section of its own. He has examples listed there such as Goodra and Dragalge so you'll definitely still be working with Dragons. I think this section could be changed however so it mentions just any of the new Pokemon instead of what seems the strongest (his article is Next Generation ASB anyway). You would still need to write about the other new Pokemon such as Aegislash, Greninja, Klefki, (just examples, don't have to write about them if you don't want to) etc to get that more general feel going as I've stated before. Do not do every single one though, too many. You can pick about 10 of the new Pokemon. This means you'll be coauthoring with Box (both of you get credit).

Would you be okay with my preferred option, still want to write your own article, or shall we find another alternative? I will not approve of an ASB article purely on Dragons as it stands.

 

[AOPSUser]

I could do what you suggested, or I was thinking that I could do something along the lines of "Adapting to the new generation" kind of thing. Is Box's article actually going to go in-depth on the new stuff or is it just going to be speculative? As far as I know, no one actually has an Aegislash or Greninja yet.

I could add the whole "old mons in a new gen" thing into that article too.

 

[Flora]

Yeah, I don't think Box planned/plans to go in-depth with his article. But what he has written so far isn't speculative, they appear to be facts. Like, it's/will be talking about ASB's history, mechanics, ability changes, STABs, the stat system, Fairies, and of course the new Pokemon (which is the part I'd like you to take over if Box is okay with it).

Adapting to the new generation kinda feels like Box's article already. If you're talking about like the small changes to old Pokemon like Moonblast on Altaria, etc, I honestly don't think they're worth mentioning, unless it's really major. Changes to attacks like Draco Meteor should probably get a mention in Box's article though. In fact, they should probably get their own section. (Sidenote, need to tell Box to add a Mega Evolution section.)

Hmm, you can be speculative if no one actually has Aegislash/Greninja yet. Take a look at their data and see what you come up with, etc. As for how much depth you want to go in, that depends on you, but as much as possible is always good. :)

Alrighty, if you're okay with it, give Box a PM. If he agrees, I'll approve.

 

[Birkal]

Sounds like you two have this under control.

For future reference though, I don't buy that ASB (or any facet of this site, for that matter) needs to dedicate their Smog articles solely to convince people to join their userbase. If the guy wants to write about Dragon-type Pokemon that only a handful of users will understand, let 'em. It serves as a good archived article for future readers who are interested in the subject, and it adds more depth to our articles than simple advertisements.

 

[AOPSUser]

Yeah, I don't think Box planned/plans to go in-depth with his article. But what he has written so far isn't speculative, they appear to be facts. Like, it's/will be talking about ASB's history, mechanics, ability changes, STABs, the stat system, Fairies, and of course the new Pokemon (which is the part I'd like you to take over if Box is okay with it).

Adapting to the new generation kinda feels like Box's article already. If you're talking about like the small changes to old Pokemon like Moonblast on Altaria, etc, I honestly don't think they're worth mentioning, unless it's really major. Changes to attacks like Draco Meteor should probably get a mention in Box's article though. In fact, they should probably get their own section. (Sidenote, need to tell Box to add a Mega Evolution section.)

Hmm, you can be speculative if no one actually has Aegislash/Greninja yet. Take a look at their data and see what you come up with, etc. As for how much depth you want to go in, that depends on you, but as much as possible is always good. :)

Alrighty, if you're okay with it, give Box a PM. If he agrees, I'll approve.

That's fine by me, though I'm nearly done now. New mons is something you could handle, given it's the only section I'm currently struggling with.

I'm in Japan right now but I'll collab with you on how to structure it in a little bit.

And there is no Mega Evolution section? Well that's a problem isn't it?

As for the new mons, I think there is one Delphox, one Sylveon, and one 8/9 EC Frogadier. As well as a ton of freshmons. It'll be fun to see how well The Wanderer's Hall goes with Protean Frogadier (dear god how will the ref play against that thing).

Also my only experience with Gen 6 ATM is getting Honedge hard walled by Helioptile, getting Noibat beaten by Phantump, and losing a mon to a Chansey's Double-Edge, so...lol.

 

[Flora]

Alright, you're approved!

Thanks for your interest in writing for The Smog! We'll work on getting you access to Article Workshop as soon as possible. You can discuss the progress of your article(s) on #thesmog (on synirc) with other writers, however keep in mind this is the only place you can discuss your article(s). If you have any questions, feel free to PM any of The Smog Staff, otherwise enjoy your time writing for the webzine. :)

 

[Birkal]

Access granted! Welcome aboard.