CAP 10 CAP 10 - Part 11a - Non-Attacking Moves Discussion

[Madrigal]

Conversely, I am also supporting Heart Swap and Psych Up. However, I am not supporting Snatch.
I will explain. Snatch, STEALS their boosts. That's it. They can't get them back unless they stat-up again, in which turn you can likely attack them or do something else.

Snatch is so strong that it's banned? That must be why no one uses it. /sarcasm

 

[Deck Knight]

Time to weigh in.

For support:

Magnet Rise: I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet. Magnet Rise is an excellent move for countering offensive pokemon with Earthquake, but a useless one for defensive pokemon, as those pokemon tend to carry Roar. Hippowdon and Swampert will simply Roar you out, and will be more vigilant in selecting Earthquake. Agiligross gets, at best, one shot of Earthquake in against a Magnet Rise Krilowatt. Less if you don't switch in on Agility. From there it can only use 4x resisted Meteor Mash, neutral Thunderpunch, or resisted Ice Punch (unless it's a crazy mixed Agiligross with Grass Knot or something)

Aqua Ring: Aqua Ring just isn't that powerful on its own. Combined with Leftovers it heals 12% per turn on Magic Guard Krilowatt, which may just be the buffer it needs to counter something. It provides a decent defensive edge.

Power Swap: There is a lot of support for Heart Swap, but in my view Heart Swap is a bit too much. It makes Superpower particularly lethal and can steal speed boosts from a Dragon Dancer. Power Swap works beautifully with Overheat and Draco Meteor, but ultimately only allows them to be used twice on the same foe. Power Swap is really the only thing needed to beat things like Swords Dance Lucario and Salamence. If you like the Atk/Def drop of a Heart Swap Superpower, I think Tickle would be an acceptable move.

Unfortunately since +Defense moves are almost never used, there's little purpose for Guard Swap, but I support it all the same.

Screech: While Stat-ups are onerous, I don't think stat-downs are. Screech can facilitate in countering offensive tanks like Suicune by breaking down their defense and leaving them vulnerable to Thunderpunch without requiring a Life Orb. Screech makes physical sets much more viable, and with Pursuit banned Krilowatt can't really take advantage of the situation itself.

Torment: Unlike Taunt below, I think Torment is an excellent move to stop heavy-hitting opponents by messing up their sweep. It also requires more defensive threats to use their attacks strategically instead of spamming Recovery or Roar.

Worry Seed: This oft-overlooked Tutor Move changes the opponent's ability to Insomnia, thereby shutting down the "Rest" part of Rest-talk strategies and removing the Toxic protection of Magic Guard and Poison Heal. A superb niche move, and arguably superior to Gastro Acid.

Heal Block: While I don't think this move will ever shine in the limelight, it also stops recovery-based strategies.

Disable: Same logic as Torment really, except it blocks a specific move until the opponent switches out. Now that it has 80 Acc it isn't worthless either. I use this on LC Duskull and love it.

Opposition:

Encore: Encore is a ridiculously powerful move. Encore and 105 Base Speed is what makes Fidgit the menace that it is.

Taunt: Taunt is also incredibly powerful and takes down a huge variety of stall threats. Heart Swap does a lot of the functionality of Taunt without being a complete shut-down to a whole host of defensive threats.

 

[petrie911]

Since Yilnath brought it up, Heal Block is a great example of what Krilowatt should not have: moves allowing it to hurt stall more than it already does.

Why does it seem like we're always catering to stall teams?

But anyways, Heal Block wears off upon switch, and does not block leftovers recovery. I'm really not seeing its overpoweredness. I suppose you might stop some low HP pokemon from using recover, but you'd be better off running an actual attack in that slot and just KOing said low HP mon. There's definitely no reason to disallow it. Heal Block for allowed.

Conversely, I am also supporting Heart Swap and Psych Up. However, I am not supporting Snatch.
I will explain. Snatch, STEALS their boosts. That's it. They can't get them back unless they stat-up again, in which turn you can likely attack them or do something else.
Psych Up COPIES the boost. They still have the boost so they are still a potent threat by all means, you just now have the same boosts so they aren't as menacing (Provided you can kill them of course). This doesn't make Krilowatt completely overbearing and able to neuter any stat-upper like Snatch would. It simply gives Krilowatt an easier way of dealing with them by copying their boosts and making use of it.

I don't think you realize the way Snatch actually works. It steals the effects of a boosting move used by the opponent. If your opponent doesn't use such a move, Snatch does nothing. To be perfectly honest, Snatching stat boosts is extremely difficult, as your opponent may very well attack that turn. And, even more interestingly, you can't Snatch Curses. Snatch should be allowed, simply because it requires a lot of prediction to use well.

 

[Seizen]

Whirlwind: Why exactly is Whirlwind still there? Forcing switches that way seems a bit hit and miss regardless, and without any entry hazard options, I cannot see where this will be run. Now, I know that means it could go in either place, but I doubt that Whirlwind can be used effectively by CAP10. After all, if we're trying to counter a certain Pokemon and force it out via Whirlwind, then I don't understand why I went through all the bother to create said counter.

Will-O-Wisp: Will-o-Wisp is always hit and miss, from my point-of-view. Burn status is irritating, but similar to Poisoning, some Pokemon are immune to it. Most notably, Heatran, who absolutely adores the move hitting it. The real effectiveness of Will-o-Wisp is definitely the Physical Attack loss for the burnt Pkmn, so it won't be so useful that it's found on every set.

Yes for Will-o-Wisp.
No for Whirlwind.

 

[Jibaku]

For support/allowed:

Moonlight - Although the thought of having a 50% recovery move is frightening on something with great bulk, coverage, and Magic Guard, we have to remember that the prevalence of Sandstorm really hurts it, and makes you think whether Tyranitar is a great partner to this Pokemon or not. As a partner, Tyranitar provides the Sandstream support that helps it take on foes better and clears out Latias, Celebi, and Blissey, the projected checks for this Pokemon, but at the same time wrecks this Pokemon's Moonlight. On the enemy's side I don't feel that we HAVE to Tyranitar to counter Moonlight - the low PP of the move deters this Pokemon from using it so freely, and with the powerful attacks being thrown around in the metagame, it puts a lot of pressure on Krilowatt.

tl; dr: Moonlight is held back by a common battling environment and its low PP prevents Krilowatt from continously switching in and absorb powerful blows and heal up easily.

For opposition/disallowed:

Will-o-Wisp: Burn is a very powerful status - it shuts down a lot of Pokemon, including Swampert, who is projected as a solid check to this Pokemon. Even those who appear not to care about it (e.g Latias), gets severely hurt in the long run. Unlike the other Pokemon that get it, Krilowatt posseses a unique combination of bulk and the ability to completely smash any Fire types that switch in to absorb the move (thus leaving Blissey and Celebi to take it; Starmie flees at the terror of Thunderbolt). It's pretty similar to why Psycho Shift is banned, really. Although Will-o-Wisp doesn't have a nice 100% accuracy it also frees your item slot for whatever you want instead of Flame Orb for burn spreading purposes. Psycho Shift does, however, grant it the ability to pass sleep to the opponent, but the main fear for shift was the ability to spread burns quite easily I believe. I don't see how Will-o-Wisp is any different in that regard.

Taunt- This is really, really bad for this Pokemon. It can easily become a stall breaker through this move by shutting down many of their options, and it is also immune to all forms of passive damage. Add in the massive 151 base HP and even Blissey will have troubles taking this Pokemon down with repeated Seismic Tosses while this Pokemon has a lot of room to weaken Blissey to the point of unusability, whether it may be from its physical moves, or through sand and previous entry hazard damage.

 

[Paradox]

Power Swap / Heart Swap should not be allowed for a number of reasons:
1. They allow a potential sweep. This is clearly not what we want, and is why all of the Stat-upping moves were removed. With the build of this pokemon, there would be many opportunities to switch into threats while they boost, then steal that boost. For example, switch into Lucario on a SD, then potentially take its boost (since a lot of CAPs won't be made to counter Lucario, your opponent may very well expect a bluff and hit you with an ES), and from there, sweep with base 105 speed, non-recoil life orb, and +2 Waterfalls. Also with superpower, you easily beat Snorlax and Blissey.

2. Why should we be swapping Draco Meteor/Overheat drops? One of the biggest arguments for allowing these two moves was that they have -2 SpA drops. You also will usually be swapping these drops onto a counter, especially with Krilowatt's high speed. Remember when Celebi was a good check? Not anymore.

3. These moves don't do anything for the concept that Haze doesn't do. We don't need stat boosts to take down any threats (that was the whole point of the Stats and Abilities and Attacking Movepool) and opposing pokemon like Suicune or Curselax still lose their boosts.

So basically all that these moves do (other than take away opponents stat drops, which Haze already does perfectly) is make Krilowatt more likely to sweep (allowing strings of DMs/Overheats or stealing opponent's boosts. If there is anything else they do that isn't counter-concept, I'm all ears.


Also against Will o Wisp and Destiny Bond. Burn is a very powerful status to be able to spread around, and Krilowatt definitely would be able to easily spread it around. With better bulk and abilities than Kitsunoh, similar speed, and good typing (though not as good imo), Krilowatt could easily spread burn. Not to mention that burn can cripple way too many offensive threats at once. Destiny Bond definitely isn't broken, but it really isn't needed to counter any threats, and it just means that Krilowatt will often be countering a pokemon, and then taking down another pokemon with it. That's countering more than it is intended to. Also, Destiny Bond becomes a lot more dangerous with high speed and magic guard - since secondary damage is the only way to take down a pokemon when Destiny Bond is activated (so you can use a Focus Sash without any fear of being finished off by Sandstorm/Status or having it broken by entry hazards).


I'm a fan of Magnet Rise, Screech (and similar moves), Torment, and Worry Seed for the same reasons as Deck Knight brought up. I don't really see the point of Magic Coat (especially with Magic Guard already) or safeguard, unless we think it's important to prevent status on Trace-Krilowatts.

 

[Deck Knight]

New plan:

Oppose Aqua Ring: This is the wages of Magic Guard. Leftovers + Aqua Ring allows Krilowatt to be it's own Self-Made Stallrein. Sure, Aqua Ring + Sub + Protect takes up three move slots, but who cares when you can avoid all passive damage (including Toxic), possess 110 HP Subs out of the box, and effectively stall any opponent out of 32 PP?

2. Why should we be swapping Draco Meteor/Overheat drops? One of the biggest arguments for allowing these two moves was that they have -2 SpA drops. You also will usually be swapping these drops onto a counter, especially with Krilowatt's high speed. Remember when Celebi was a good check? Not anymore.

You could do that, but you'd still be taking decent amounts of damage from a -2 Leaf Storm. Basically all it would manage to do is preserve Krilowatt long enough to switch out to a counter. At best you could use Draco Meteor -> Swap -> Draco Meteor and you'd be back at -2 SA again, unless your opponent switched out in the meantime. Otherwise Draco Meteor/Overheat possess the same drawbacks they've always had.

 

[SJCrew]

Will-o-Wisp: Disallow. That's too many physical threats nipped in the bud to where CAP becomes a general wall rather than a utility counter. The reason we buffed its offensive movepool was to help it counter anything, but not everything; Will-o-Wisp ignores that idea entirely and makes Krilowatt a threat of its own. We don't want another Rotom-A on our hands.

Heart Swap: I'm actually glad only Manaphy can learn this move because it's absolutely ridiculous. Stealing Mence, TTar, and Gyara's DDs, Emploleon's Pataya/Agility boosts, and Suicune's CMs is a big help when Krilowatt can freely off them afterward. Now here's were the problem kicks in: it now threatens to sweep the opposing team. Haze already does a good enough job of dealing with stat-up abusers like Salamence, Gyarados, Empoleon, and Lucario, so do we really need to make a way for it to actively steal them? A bit of a counterproductive step, considering we've disallowed almost every other offensive boosting move it could get.

In short, I'm against Heart Swap, it's just a furtive way to make Krilowatt more of a sweeper.

 

[Banryu]

Imma say Magic Coat for allowed. It's very situational and not all that useful most of the time, barely a competetive move at all really, although I guess it could be used to bounce some Sleep and Paralysis back at their users. At best, it's a gimmick move, so there's no reason to disallow it.

 

[Paradox]

You could do that, but you'd still be taking decent amounts of damage from a -2 Leaf Storm. Basically all it would manage to do is preserve Krilowatt long enough to switch out to a counter. At best you could use Draco Meteor -> Swap -> Draco Meteor and you'd be back at -2 SA again, unless your opponent switched out in the meantime. Otherwise Draco Meteor/Overheat possess the same drawbacks they've always had.

I see what you're saying here, and I agree that Heart/Power Swap + Draco Meteor clearly isn't going to come anywhere close to breaking Krilowatt. I just think that Heart and Power Swap make people less likely to use Krilowatt for its intended purpose. My point about Overheat and Draco Meteor being added because of their drawbacks still stands (though using a moveslot to compensate is a pretty big drawback).

However, I'm more opposed to the offensive implications. Yes, stealing a SD or NP is going to be highly situational, but Krilowatt shouldn't be sweeping in any situation, so why should we even allow that option? Also, Krilowatt will be able to easily steal Calm Minds from Crocune or Jirachi, not to mention Curses from all of the Snorlax that are sure to be running around.

Basically, the only positives for these moves (in respect to the concept, not "Wow it'd be sweet to make a Draco Meteor + Power Swap combo!") are already covered by Haze, and since the chance remains of setting up a sweep, they are counter concept and should be Disallowed.

Edit: And here's Superpower!

Heart Swapping a Superpower drop onto WishBliss gives a chance to OHKO with life orb and NO investment in attack. (You need 48 EVs to guarantee a OHKO after stealth rocks and 1 turn of Leftovers). Blissey will NOT be a counter if Heart Swap is included.

@QuimicVital - The problems are a) you are beating your counters (overheat + power swap or superpower + heart swap for Celebi, Blissey, Snorlax, Bronzong, etc.). It also allows you to spam high base power moves (though with no STAB) that will hit most switch ins hard with Fire + Dragon coverage.

 

[QuimicVital]

I see what you're saying here, and I agree that Heart/Power Swap + Draco Meteor clearly isn't going to come anywhere close to breaking Krilowatt. I just think that Heart and Power Swap make people less likely to use Krilowatt for its intended purpose. My point about Overheat and Draco Meteor being added because of their drawbacks still stands (though using a moveslot to compensate is a pretty big drawback).

However, I'm more opposed to the offensive implications. Yes, stealing a SD or NP is going to be highly situational, but Krilowatt shouldn't be sweeping in any situation, so why should we even allow that option? Also, Krilowatt will be able to easily steal Calm Minds from Crocune or Jirachi, not to mention Curses from all of the Snorlax that are sure to be running around.

Basically, the only positives for these moves (in respect to the concept, not "Wow it'd be sweet to make a Draco Meteor + Power Swap combo!") are already covered by Haze, and since the chance remains of setting up a sweep, they are counter concept and should be Disallowed.

Maybe I'm wrong but by covering two moveslots for the combo, aren't you trying to counter SOME Pokémon? others could be threats like Choice Banders that could EQ you and 2HKO you no matter how high your HP is.

 

[beej]

Alright, while I appreciate the level of active discussion in this thread, I really have to point out that this thread is encountering problems that the other didn't have. People REALLY need to stop suggesting every single little non-attacking move that comes to their head. I'm completely uninterested in little trinket moves with little potential to be used. This thread is supposed to let us come to a consensus on what COMPETITIVE non-attacking moves will be allowed in movepool submissions. By focusing on non-competitive moves, you are wasting your time and making it more likely that we might forget competitively viable moves, which subsequently will be disallowed because we never came to a consensus on them.

I have updated the OP to reflect my current stances on many of these moves. As you can see, my opinion is that this Pokemon should generally be holding its own and shouldn't have any potential to support its team beyond holding off threats. If you disagree with the placement of any move, please go ahead and argue, but again, PLEASE don't call for a move to be controversial. You are supposed to either support or not support a move, not tell me that the community at large hasn't come to a consensus.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Since we need some input on moves, I'll start with the pending list. I personally say that Magic Coat, Snatch, and Substitute should be allowed. Neither move actually breaks K-watt and the former two probably won't see much use in any of K-watt's set.

Encore should be rightfully disallowed onto this Pokemon's movepool due to shutting down stall which shouldn't be what K-watt is used for.

Now let's get to the Controversial list and see what should be allowed. To be honest, I support each and everyone of those moves within that list so I say they should all be allowed on Krilowatt. Neither one of those moves appear to be game-breaking on a Pokemon like this one and none of the against arguments seem to convince me otherwise.

 

[Aqueos]

Aqua rings fine, it barely help hp. Morning sun is over the top. Rapid spin is scaring me. Any ideas about rapid spin?

 

[McLuvdisc]

I'm seeing a lot of argument over Heart Swap and whether or not it would be overpowered. My proposal is that we disallow Heart Swap on Krillowatt and instead give it access to both Power Swap and Guard Swap. This would force users to choose between stealing offensive boosts and defensive ones, as running both would, for obvious reasons, be completely nonviable. For example, with a combination of Guard Swap and Superpower, Krillowatt could KO Blissey. However, it would then be unable to steal attack boosts from Dragon Dances, Nasty Plots, and the like.

Just a note - I think the inclusion of Heart Swap or Power Swap will make Physical sets for Krillowatt much less popular. If the Krillowatt in question is running Trace, and tries to steal an attack boost from a Gyarados or Salamence after switching in on the DD, its attack will remain the same thanks to the -1 drop from the Traced Intimidate. Of course, special attacking seems decidedly the way to go with Krillowatt, so maybe that's a moot point.

@Aqueos - Yeah, I'm against Rapid Spin as well. I think we need to keep Krillowatt (God, that name is really starting to grow on me!) focused on countering. The thing's already similar enough to Starmie, so let's not make it another spinner.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Heart Swap is in no way overpowered. Think about what you have to do and the conditions that have to be satisfied to actually even be able to put Heart Swap's generated boosts to use:

• You need to use the appropriate moves (Physical/Special) for the offensive boost you steal.
• You need to use Heart Swap as they attack you, taking a huge hit - especially if they're faster.
• The opponent needs to not switch out of Krilowatt for fear of being countered, thus making you Heart Swap an unboosted Pokemon and giving up critical information about your movepool.
• You need to not be up against some counter of Krilowatt's after you steal the boosts and then be forced to switch out anyways.

I mean, given that, I say that anyone that can actually pull off a sweep with Heart Swap is my official hero and deserves whatever sweep they can pull off. Heart Swap actually makes the idea of stealing boosts plausible and competitively viable, whereas Power Swap and Guard Swap, in general, are too specific and lack usability. Also, Heart Swap's ability to snag speed boosts might be the most useful aspect of all three moves combined, since Krilowatt can always use to be faster and some threats only need an Agility to wreck havoc. (Metagross, Zapdos, etc)

Heart Swap for allowed.

 

[Deck Knight]

I draw a distinction between Power Swap and Heart Swap.

I support Power Swap because it has a very distinct purpose in dissuading most of the offensive stat-up Pokemon. Defensive Stat-uppers like Jirachi and Suicune have only limited amounts of fear to Power Swap, since they can just keep boosting their defense and you'll never be able to break them.

I haven't put this theorymon set to paper but now I will.

Krilowatt @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
24 HP / 28 Atk / 120 Def /120 SpA / 216 Spe
Discharge
Draco Meteor
Power Swap
Earthquake

Discharge vs. Offensive DDGyara: 103-123% (OHKO)
Draco Meteor vs. DDMence: 80-94% (OHKO with SR, guaranteed KO with 2 LO Recoil)
Earthquake vs. SDLucario: 54-64% (OHKO with Power Swapped SD, 82-96% at -1 Def [Within LO Recoil KO range])

DDMence LO EQ (assume DD and Traced Intimidate): 71-84%
DDGyara LO EQ: (assume DD and Traced Intimidate): 74-88%
Lucario LO Close Combat: 61-72%.
Lucario LO Extremespeed: 27-32%.

So while this Krilowatt set is an imperfect counter to Lucario, this set prevents any of Salamence, Gyarados, and Lucario from switching in at any point in time. It can switch into them and either survive their assault and KO back, or it can cripple them. Power Swap lets it stall Lucario's assault, and if Gyarados switches in after Salamence and Intimidates Krilowatt, it's left at +1 Spe after Power Swap as well, and is forced to Attack if it wants to survive. +1 Spe Gyarados is still somewhat scary, but not as much as +1 Atk/+1 Spe Gyara. This set is also largely worthless against defensive threats, save Discharge is selected for the 30% paralysis rate (60% if you can swipe Serene Grace from Jirachi or Togekiss). Additionally, if a special attacker comes in after Krilowatt uses Draco Meteor, you can blunt their offense by using Power Swap before switching out.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I support Power Swap because it has a very distinct purpose in dissuading most of the offensive stat-up Pokemon. Defensive Stat-uppers like Jirachi and Suicune have only limited amounts of fear to Power Swap, since they can just keep boosting their defense and you'll never be able to break them.

However, since you fail to threaten them offensively as they can keep boosting their defense in your face, eventually you lose to their +X SpA/+XSpD compared to your having +X SpA at best. When they finally decide to just attack you, you'll fail hard against them and now have to deal with a fully loaded Jirachi/Crocune/whatever. At least in the presence of Heart Swap, you can steal their defensive boosts and force them completely out if you attack immediately. This amounts to actually countering those setup threats, whereas otherwise you simply cannot.

This isn't to say that I don't support Power Swap, though, as in fact I do support it. I simply support Heart Swap far more as it will prove more useful in defeating specific setup threats depending on the attacking moves you select while still being generally useful across the board for other types of setup threats as well.

 

[Bamce]

Heart Swap is in no way overpowered. Think about what you have to do and the conditions that have to be satisfied to actually even be able to put Heart Swap's generated boosts to use:

• You need to use the appropriate moves (Physical/Special) for the offensive boost you steal.
• You need to use Heart Swap as they attack you, taking a huge hit - especially if they're faster.
• The opponent needs to not switch out of Krilowatt for fear of being countered, thus making you Heart Swap an unboosted Pokemon and giving up critical information about your movepool.
• You need to not be up against some counter of Krilowatt's after you steal the boosts and then be forced to switch out anyways.

I mean, given that, I say that anyone that can actually pull off a sweep with Heart Swap is my official hero and deserves whatever sweep they can pull off. Heart Swap actually makes the idea of stealing boosts plausible and competitively viable, whereas Power Swap and Guard Swap, in general, are too specific and lack usability. Also, Heart Swap's ability to snag speed boosts might be the most useful aspect of all three moves combined, since Krilowatt can always use to be faster and some threats only need an Agility to wreck havoc. (Metagross, Zapdos, etc)

Heart Swap for allowed.

I think a big part of what your missing is the attack drop moves.
Super power/draco metoer

Also how does heart swap function against clear body?

 

[Deck Knight]

However, since you fail to threaten them offensively as they can keep boosting their defense in your face, eventually you lose to their +X SpA/+XSpD compared to your having +X SpA at best. When they finally decide to just attack you, you'll fail hard against them and now have to deal with a fully loaded Jirachi/Crocune/whatever. At least in the presence of Heart Swap, you can steal their defensive boosts and force them completely out if you attack immediately. This amounts to actually countering those setup threats, whereas otherwise you simply cannot.

This isn't to say that I don't support Power Swap, though, as in fact I do support it. I simply support Heart Swap far more as it will prove more useful in defeating specific setup threats depending on the attacking moves you select while still being generally useful across the board for other types of setup threats as well.

Which is largely why I'm neutral about Heart Swap right now. I can demonstrate a viable set using only the mechanics involved in Power Swap. Heart Swap is basically Power Swap on steroids. Heart Swap allows you to do incredible things with Superpower and defeat things like Crocune and Curselax by taking their offensive and defensive boosts simultaneously. It's like Psyche Up combined with a single-field Haze for most practical purposes, which is why I think it needs more consideration. Power Swap is demonstrably useful and not overpowering, Heart Swap might be overpowering, but aside from being able to use Superpower + Heart Swap to obliterate any Blissey fool enough to stay in, I can't say it doesn't apply to a much larger list of threats.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Which is largely why I'm neutral about Heart Swap right now. I can demonstrate a viable set using only the mechanics involved in Power Swap. Heart Swap is basically Power Swap on steroids. Heart Swap allows you to do incredible things with Superpower and defeat things like Crocune and Curselax by taking their offensive and defensive boosts simultaneously. It's like Psyche Up combined with a single-field Haze for most practical purposes, which is why I think it needs more consideration. Power Swap is demonstrably useful and not overpowering, Heart Swap might be overpowering, but aside from being able to use Superpower + Heart Swap to obliterate any Blissey fool enough to stay in, I can't say it doesn't apply to some a much larger list of threats.

I can see the point that you're making, for certain. I think that sort of versatility is what takes such sets out of obscurity and actually gives them competitive viability. In all of your example cases, you'd almost always want to just kill your threat and use some other support move over Power Swap. Seriously, since Power Swap only steals attacking boosts, it's less efficient than even Haze for the durable boosters since you can't beat them anyways. Being able to snatch defensive boosts as well, however, gives it the edge that can make it stand out from other support moves.

I think Heart Swap is almost necessary for the idea of boost-stealing to even be remotely competitive. Without it, other options like Haze and Thunder Wave are just more useful overall.

 

[Banryu]

...wow. Lots of controversy regarding Heart Swap VS Power / Guard Swap right now. Personally, I'd like to see Heart Swap disallowed and Power/Guard Swaps allowed... I agree with DK and RD's conclusions about Heart Swap for the most part, I just arrive at a different conclusion.

Which is largely why I'm neutral about Heart Swap right now. I can demonstrate a viable set using only the mechanics involved in Power Swap. Heart Swap is basically Power Swap on steroids. Heart Swap allows you to do incredible things with Superpower and defeat things like Crocune and Curselax by taking their offensive and defensive boosts simultaneously. It's like Psyche Up combined with a single-field Haze for most practical purposes, which is why I think it needs more consideration. Power Swap is demonstrably useful and not overpowering, Heart Swap might be overpowering, but aside from being able to use Superpower + Heart Swap to obliterate any Blissey fool enough to stay in, I can't say it doesn't apply to a much larger list of threats.

The things bolded in here are why I'm so hesitant to allow Heart Swap. I do think that it would allow Kril to beat a lot of things it shouldn't be normally. I agree with the practical uses of Power Swap and I really like the set Deck Knight came up with, as it fits the concept perfectly, but if you turn the Power Swap into Heart Swap that worries me. So I say disallow Heart Swap.

Snatch - Sort of in the same boat as moves like Magic Coat and Power Swap to me; potentially useful against certain threats, but too situational to really be truly effetive. I say Allow. Honestly, I think this move relies way too much on prediction to even be competetively viable, kind of like pre-Shadow Tag Wobbuffet.

Encore - Disallow. This move's sole purpose is to make room for things to set up, and that's not what we're after with this concept. This move is in the same boat as Taunt far as I'm concerned, and has no business being in Kril's movepool.

Substitute / Rain Dance - I'm not entirely sure why these two moves are even controversial, since everything gets these anyway. Substitute can't be any more broken on Krilowatt than anything else out there that likes to abuse it, so allow Sub, which no one should even need to point out IMO.
Rain Dance seems more potentially useful on Kril to me, and I can easily see it being used as a Rain Dance setup+abuse Poke, which is dangerously close to sweeping... However Kril still doesn't have the raw stats to truly sweep, and things like Latias that resist its STAB Surfs and Thunders are still as capable of forcing it out, even when it has Ice Beam. If it wants to counter Latias with Sucker Punch, Payback, or Avalanche, it has to split its offensive EVs, making it less effective at everything-- IE, it's still easily countered. Honestly, I think it could go that route, but it wouldn't be as effective at that as it would at its intended purpose. I would say allow Rain Dance as well given that.

Aqua Ring - Disallow. The Magic Guard + Lefties + Aqua Ring combo possibility has already been mentioned, and I see this as too threatening / effective a form of recovery to allow.

Morning Sun - Disallow. I don't care if it has lower PP or goes at half-power under Rain, SS, and Hail, it's a 50% recovery move otherwise and should therefore be banned like all the other 50% recovery moves.

 

[Scoopapa]

I don't really like the idea of Power Swap, Heart Swap, or Psych Up, since they don't add any counters I can think of that Haze doesn't: they just let you counter things and then try to sweep.

Against Heart Swap, Power Swap, and Psych Up

For Haze

For Magnet Rise too, although if it ends up with Overheat in the voted movepool it probably won't need it.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

I honestly don't get why Whirlwind is disallowed. Really it's a useful move, but not broken. Whirlwind ensures that Krilowatt's amazing speed stat goes to complete waste, allowing pokemon that have already boosted a shot to do at least some good damage before being phazed out. This makes Krilowatt somewhat less effective when said pokemon reappears later in the game since he has no recovery move, aside from rest. Considering the types Krilowatt resists versus common move sets, most have at least one attack that hits neutral. While it's true that not all phazers are equipped with instant recover moves, most are (I.E. Skarmory and Hippowdon).

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Seeing as Focus Punch is not in Krillowatt's movepool, we can give it Substitute, without worrying about SubPunch sets to beat Blissey.

About Heart Swap, it requires so much prediction and luck to pull off a sweep with it that I say the guy who has the guts to use it for sweeping deserves it.

EDIT: My 100th post(this) came in a thread related to CAP10. Get it?