CAP 10 CAP 10 - Part 11a - Non-Attacking Moves Discussion

[Rising_Dusk]

Putting for Yawn to be disallowed. I know it's a more borderline case than the other sleep moves, but it functions in only one of two ways in all cases.

• The Pokemon you hit with it stays in and falls asleep. This equates Yawn to something like Spore, just at a one turn delay. I feel that - and others have agreed with it - that Krilowatt should not have access to sleeping moves that might incapacitate a counter or another random Pokemon on the enemy's team.
• The Pokemon you hit with it switches out to avoid the sleep. In this case, Yawn functions identically to Whirlwind or Roar, except Krilowatt gets a free attack on the switch-in (possibly another Yawn). Both Whirlwind and Roar were both already disallowed for their phazing effects and subsequent racking up on entry hazard damage.

Either way you look at it, Yawn does something we've disallowed from the rest of the movepool. I don't see why it should be allowed if it has no impact on how Krilowatt plays except to function as potentially one banned option or another based on how the opponent reacts. I don't think that should fly.

 

[smallvizier]

The new pending move is Yawn. We've just banned Whirlwind because it allows her to shuffle. We've just banned Encore because it allows her to create free turns. These are exactly the things that Yawn can do.

Yawn works against almost any pokemon. It allows Krilowatt to force out or sleep its own counters, thus giving it a lot more versatility. In short it should be disallowed.

@Master Ball I have also suggested Charge to be allowed. It has two effects. One level of one defense boost is about as harmless as a stat-up can get (I also suggested we allow Defense Curl). Meanwhile the offensive aspect, doubling the power of the next electric move, is no better than simply doing that same Electric move twice in the first place - and it is really quite easy to predict.

Basically you get no more damage with Charge/Discharge than with Discharge/Discharge, and you run the risk of doing none at all, or very little, if they out-predict you and Sub or Switch or Protect. Meanwhile you are slightly more survivable, but the damage you will have taken in the meantime probably more than makes up for that.

Essentially I feel both Charge and Defense Curl are 'marginal' enough to be put in the allowed pile, and see relatively little use.

EDIT: It looks like I've just said the same as Rising Dusk about Yawn. I must be right then!

 

[Banryu]

Ok so for agility, the problem is not that it would be broken on krillowatt because it clearly wouldnt be. The problem is that the only purpose it can be for is sweeping. There are very few other points to agility besides baton passing which is not relevant as Krillowatt will definitely not be getting baton pass. It wont help at all but having a move that's only use is in sweeping is a problem for a utility counter. agility for disallowed

The problem with this logic is assuming that Kril already has the offensive stats to use to sweep in the first place-- which it does not. Yes, Agility is basically JUST for sweeping, but Kril doesn't have the raw offenses to put the move to effective use (it's been said many times that it can really only deal serious damage with SE attacks, NOT a sweeper quality) and it's already faster than a lot of things anyway. I don't see how this is in any way broken or even useful on it. At best it just ends up being a flavor move in his level-up movepool or something. Allow Agility.

As for.... Yawn? I'm sort of surprised this isn't just being thrown into disallowed along with Encore and Whirlwind/Roar, since it basically serves the same purpose as either or both-- that is, it's a p-hazing move. Disallow Yawn, there's not really much to be said here, IMO.

As for Rain Dance... I think Hydrolphin makes a pretty good case for why it's not broken on it.

Rain Dance
If a somewhat bulky, fast, Water type with Thunder and a useable SpA Pokemon with Rain Dance was truely broken then wouldn't at least get a mention on Starmie's set (Control+F Rain)? Starmie would be a superior choice to Krilowatt due to its higher power and speed, and it NEVER uses a Rain Dance set. Rain Dance fails to even get mentioned in the March statistics (Its in in the "other" 4.7%). Its pathetic that Rain Dance being broken was even brought up, let alone argued over. A RD set won't be used enough to make it worthwhile. Rain Dance to Allowed.

Barring the fact that bulk is mildly irrelevant to sweeping and that Kril gets STAB on Thunder while Starmie does not, I think he has a point here. I agree that, even if it DID get RD, it wouldn't be used particularly often, simply because it's better at other things (namely, the purpose we designed it for) than it is at using Rain to sweep. I concur, allow Rain Dance. (Also, I don't see too many other people discussing Rain Dance, I'd like to hear others' thoughts on the move.)

Unfortunately, I can't really say he makes a good argument for Aqua Ring.

Aqua Ring to Allowed
If this move was broken on CAP10, I'd think you'd see it actually used somewhere. I think CAP10 could use put it to good use, but it just isn't good enough to be broken. A Stallrein set wouldn't really be that effective as it has to use up three moveslots on just surviving, let alone having any offensive use.

The problem with the first italicized statement is that nothing else with Magic Guard gets Aqua Ring. Immunity to Poison, entry hazards, and weather hazards, coupled with Lefties+Aqua Ring recovery, effectively screws entire teams that rely strongly on stalling and walling as opposed to strong offensive damage (and as much as I hate stall teams, I would not want to see this become concievable). And a Psuedo-Stallrein set could SO be effective, especially in the conditions I just described: A set of Protect+Sub+Toxic+Aqua Ring (as a fairly extreme example) with heavily-defensive EV investments EASILY stalls to death anything that's not Steel- or Poison-type. I reiterate, disallow Aqua Ring. This gives Kril the capability to stall, which is not something we want it doing.

EDIT: It looks like I've just said the same as Rising Dusk about Yawn. I must be right then!

LOL never assume that you're right just because another person with knowledge or prestige said the same thing. Dusk definitely knows his stuff, but he has just as much capacity to be wrong as any other human being.

 

[zarator]

About Aqua Ring, you forget that Stallrein has one key component to his effectiveness that Aqua Ring Krilowatt wouldn't: passive damage. Stallrein is perfectly capable of dealing over 200% damage thanks to Hail harassing relentlessly the opponent. Krilowatt, on the other hand, just stays here and stalls. While, for example, A CM Jirachi would have a somewhat hard time breaking through Stallrein, since Hail negates the all-important Leftovers, Krilowatt is just mere setup fodder for him. You could argue that you could support Krilowatt with Sand or Hail, since Krilo does have Magic Guard. But, if you use Sand, a lot of Pokémon like the aforementioned Jirachi don't give a shit about, and if you use Hail, you are much better off using Stallrein. Moreover, whereas Stallrein still has 2 moveslots after the "stall package" Sub/Protect and can afford to use a status or phazing move alongside Surf/Blizzard, Krilowatt need 3 moves to complete the stalling package (Aqua Ring/Sub/Protect), and so, it can carry only 1 attacking move (or run Toxic and let any Taunt user have fun with you).

tl;dr: Krilowatt can stall like Walrein, yes, but the damage output resulting from the stalling cycle is non-existant in Krilowatt's case, huge in Walrein's, and setting up on Stallwatt is much easier than on Stallrein

Aqua Ring for (flavor) allowed

 

[Rising_Dusk]

The important point Zarator's making is that extra moveslot. In every other way, Krilowatt is superior because of a few things.

• Krilowatt does not fear weather-changers in Tyranitar and Hippowdon changing the hail
• Krilowatt is also immune to the hail/sand because of Magic Guard
• Krilowatt has better net bulk than Walrein (174/174 for Krilo, 168/165 for Walrein)
• Krilowatt is 4x resistant to Bullet Punch and not weak to any other priority
• Krilowatt is immune to entry hazards
• Krilowatt has a huge speed stat

The big killer is that last moveslot. Krilowatt takes an extra turn to set up the package in that he has to activate both Aqua Ring and Substitute, which is bad, but ok. Walrein, however, can run Toxic and Surf. Or Roar and Surf. Or X and Y in general. Krilowatt only gets one move, which is 9 times out of 10 going to be Surf. For this reason, which is an enormous reason, mind you, so enormous that it outweighs all the other reasons, I feel that Stallowatt will be largely less effective than Stallrein and that Aqua Ring used in this fashion will be a gimmick.

Aqua Ring for allowed.

Rain Dance
If a somewhat bulky, fast, Water type with Thunder and a useable SpA Pokemon with Rain Dance was truely broken then wouldn't at least get a mention on Starmie's set (Control+F Rain)? Starmie would be a superior choice to Krilowatt due to its higher power and speed, and it NEVER uses a Rain Dance set. Rain Dance fails to even get mentioned in the March statistics (Its in in the "other" 4.7%). Its pathetic that Rain Dance being broken was even brought up, let alone argued over. A RD set won't be used enough to make it worthwhile. Rain Dance to Allowed.

Several points to be made here:

• Starmie does not get STAB Thunder
• Starmie's bulk is considerably less than Krilowatt's, making it a poor choice for setting up the Rain
• Starmie has far more critical weaknesses for the job than Krilowatt (Krilowatt can team with Bronzong for setting up the rain and they perfectly cover each other's weaknesses)
• Starmie does not have the offensive movepool of Krilowatt; because of this, Krilowatt can carry moves to take out common Rain Dance team threats. (Many Rain Dance supporters envy Krilowatt's Low Kick for TTar)

For these reasons, Krilowatt is largely in a class of its own for Rain Dance supporting. Furthermore, because of the immediate and perfect weakness coverage of Bronzong and Krilowatt, they will be teamed together with enormous effectiveness in Rain Dance.

Lastly, we already banned the screens and all other forms of team support. Rain Dance is no different. It supports the team with weather that they can abuse, doesn't utility counter anything, and we have absolutely no reason to include it and every reason to disallow it because of the nature of what it sets up, how easily it is abused, and how useful Krilowatt will be as a transition RD setup supporter on RD teams.

Rain Dance for disallowed.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

After reading Hydro's comment on Encore and looking at the current list of allowed/disallowed move, I have to ask myself if Encore really deserves the ban anyway. With no buff, entry hazard, and/or team support moves with and the fact that anything you come in on to encore would switch out near-instantly, I don't really see Encore actually breaking this Pokemon. Sure one could say it could use Encore to help it set up a Sub, but really now, it could do that without using Encore, just Sub as they switch out. Encore - buff/hazards/team support moves = not broken therefor Encore should be made allowed.

 

[SinisterSamurai]

As long as we're not allowing Heart Swap/Power Swap and Encore at the same time. A boost thief sounds like a really fun, but that's basically a concept for another CAP.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

As long as we're not allowing Heart Swap/Power Swap and Encore at the same time. A boost thief sounds like a really fun, but that's basically a concept for another CAP.

I fail to see how this would be effective at all, given that there's almost no reason to stay in and give the opponent a chance to steal boosts (or get free turns to do anything) when you're encored.

 

[SinisterSamurai]

I fail to see how this would be effective at all, given that there's almost no reason to stay in and give the opponent a chance to steal boosts (or get free turns to do anything) when you're encored.

That's a very good point and proves the case even further.
Either they stay in, get heart swapped for their boosts, (extra boosts, based on Encore) or the potential threat of Encore + Swap is doing the same thing as Whirlwind and Roar, unless your opponent knows you aren't running the set.

Not saying that there isn't already a lot of bluffing in Shoddy, but Krilowatt will definitely be adding to the bluffing.

 

[Xiom]

That's a very good point and proves the case even further.
Either they stay in, get heart swapped for their boosts, (extra boosts, based on Encore) or the potential threat of Encore + Swap is doing the same thing as Whirlwind and Roar, unless your opponent knows you aren't running the set.

Not saying that there isn't already a lot of bluffing in Shoddy, but Krilowatt will definitely be adding to the bluffing.

Encoring a stat up move basicly means whirlwind even if it doesn't have Heart Swap in its move pool at all. The only things i can imagine staying in and keep boosting are bulky def bosting pokemons like Curselax or Crocune. But thats only if they are certain they can outlaast the encore and then rest off the damage.

If not you can switch in something with their own setup move like swords dane then kill the pokemon and proceed with sweeping.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

That's a very good point and proves the case even further.
Either they stay in, get heart swapped for their boosts, (extra boosts, based on Encore) or the potential threat of Encore + Swap is doing the same thing as Whirlwind and Roar, unless your opponent knows you aren't running the set.

Not saying that there isn't already a lot of bluffing in Shoddy, but Krilowatt will definitely be adding to the bluffing.

When encored, the least of your worries is having your boosts stolen. In general, you're more worried about giving the opponent free turns. If anything, Encore lessens the chance of actually stealing boosts, since you can be guaranteed that virtually no one will stay in after being encored to have the boosts stolen, unless they would have spammed their stat ups anyways (Crocune, Curselax). Encore forces the switches, not Heart Swap. Encore is what should be disallowed, not Heart Swap.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

When encored, the least of your worries is having your boosts stolen. In general, you're more worried about giving the opponent free turns.

To do what? Krilowatt doesn't have any set-up moves to abuse the switch out. You can't just switch in another Pokemon out so it could take advantage of the situation because then it's becomes a double switch-in. How much of an advantage do you gain if you ended up double switching with your opponent? Encore forcing switches is a moot point when seeing this Pokemon coming it would probably make me switch out anyway.

 

[Objection]

To do what? Krilowatt doesn't have any set-up moves to abuse the switch out. You can't just switch in another Pokemon out so it could take advantage of the situation because then it's becomes a double switch-in. How much of an advantage do you gain if you ended up double switching with your opponent? Encore forcing switches is a moot point when seeing this Pokemon coming it would probably make me switch out anyway.

I don't think the issue is that it forces switches. I think the issue is that it forces switches for just about everything. This is completely the opposite of the concept.

Come to think of it, what non-attacking moves help CAP10 to fulfil its concept and nothing else?

 

[Son_of_Shadoo]

Disallow Encore. Defensive stats of 151 HP, 73 Defense and 74 Special Defense, with Mirror Coat and Counter, would just make it a sturdier Wobbuffet if it got an Encore in.

A sturdier Wobb without Shadow Tag. It's Shadow Tag in conjunction with Encore that keeps Wobbuffet firmly in Ubers. Without Shadow Tag, Encore is pretty simple to switch out of.

 

[reachzero]

Who cares if it can't stat up, set up entry hazards, etc? Krilowatt has perfectly good offenses in its own right. The opponent will be forced to switch out, and be forced to switch into a Krilowatt attack; any attack on the set, in fact, since Krilowatt is in absolutely no danger whatsoever and it can afford to guess as to what will come in. Encore is just too strong on a Pokemon as fast and bulky as Krilowatt.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Who cares if it can't stat up, set up entry hazards, etc? Krilowatt has perfectly good offenses in its own right. The opponent will be forced to switch out, and be forced to switch into a Krilowatt attack; any attack on the set, in fact, since Krilowatt is in absolutely no danger whatsoever and it can afford to guess as to what will come in. Encore is just too strong on a Pokemon as fast and bulky as Krilowatt.

Just how many supportive/set-up Pokemon are going to stay in if Krilowatt decides to switch onto them? Probably not a whole lot of Pokemon so this whole "Encore forces switches therefor it's bad" is still moot when the mere present of Krilowatt only is enough to scare them anyway. Encore doesn't break this Pokemon when most of the things one would use Encore on would switch out anyway.

 

[smallvizier]

Just how many supportive/set-up Pokemon are going to stay in if Krilowatt decides to switch onto them? Probably not a lot

I can see some people switching Krilowatt into something it doesn't counter just to mess with the opponent. I mean, they switch out, giving Krilowatt a free turn and possibly switching something in that you can deal with; and meanwhile they've got completely the wrong idea about what you're set up for.

Anyway - we know there are a lot of switches in the current metagame, there will be switches around Krilowatt as well, but the thing is we don't want even more of them to the point that she just becomes a shuffler dealing versatile damage through entry hazards.

 

[Korski]

Yawn - It's one of the better moves in the game, imo, for statusing, scouting, and Phazing. It has nothing to do with countering countees; rather, it has everything to do with countering counters, which is not a function inherent in this concept. Disallowed.

I really don't care much about Rain Dance or Aqua Ring, since they won't see much use even if they do make it into the movepool (read: Krilowatt has much better things to do). I would also like to Disallow 2-stage stat-reducing moves: Charm, Cotton Spore, Fake Tears, FeatherDance, Metal Sound, Scary Face, Screech, and Tickle, as they behave very much like Yawn and other moves that are designed to lower the effectiveness of Pokemon that switch into you and not those you switch in on. With its bulk and Speed, Krilowatt could certainly use these moves to take advantage of defensive or otherwise slower switch-ins, which I understand is not the point of this CAP.

 

[SinisterSamurai]

So, let me see if I get this:
Encore on Krilowatt:
A) Forces a switch on almost everything, which does not fit the concept of countering a few Pokes but not everything-at-once.
B) Gives it a free turn to set up nothing, to double switch, or to get a free hit on the incoming pokemon.

And so the overarching argument for "Allowed" seems to be, "It's stronger on other pokemon with setups, so who gives a shit?" Is that basically the best argument in-favor of the move?

If that is the case, then I vote Disallow Encore because, A) "Who gives a shit?" B) It doesn't help the pokemon do stuff it needs to do. Instead it allows it to do stuff it doesn't need to be doing.

 

[Staraptor Call]

Allow Charm and Captivate. Stat-lowering moves that lower offensive stats only work when used on Pokemon that use moves that get lowered by them. This makes it so if Krilowatt were to use a move to lower either Attack or Special Attack, it would be on a set customized to beat either Physical or Special threats. Lowering the main offensive stat of such a Pokemon would force it out, which would mean it would be countered. And taking up two moveslots to run both Charm and Captivate would leave only two other slots, making running both a mostly unviable option. So Krilowatt would have to choose between better countering Physical or Special threats, which fits perfectly with the concept of only being able to counter some groups of Pokemon at once.

On the other hand, moves that lower defensive stats should be disallowed. Moves that lower defensive stats do not support the use of Krilowatt as a offensive counter, since if Krilowatt has to switch in to counter a Pokemon, it would do better using an attacking move twice rather than using a Defense- or Special Defense-lowering move and then an attacking move. Instead, a Defense- or Special Defense-lowering move would be used against the switch-ins that counter Krilowatt, turning Krilowatt into a focused stall breaker rather than a focused counter. Consider how MStran and MSdos are used to get through Blissey; those would be the kinds of movesets that defensive-stat-lowering moves would support, and they are not movesets meant to be used as utility counters.

Aqua Ring should be disallowed. Aqua Ring encourages Krilowatt to stay in and wall rather than quickly switching into and out of a threat to counter. Rising Dusk raised the possibility of Krilowatt being used as a staller, and even if such movesets do not turn out to be viable, they should be prevented since they go against the concept. We should not allow Aqua Ring because it has the risk of encouraging Krilowatt to run anti-concept movesets, but is itself not necessary for the concept.

 

[TaiCrunch]

Disallow Encore: The purpose of encore is to give certain Pokemon opportunities to deal with common threats who don't have the means to deal with them otherwise. But Krilowatt does have the means to deal with several of the most common threats in the metagame. Encore, in combination to its speed and bulk, would give it a way to deal with virtually everything, which destroys the entire concept of it not being able to counter everything at once.

 

[Seizen]

Weather: If we're stopping Baton Pass and other "help" position moves, such as entry hazards and stat-up moves, then weather ought to go as well.
The simple reason? If you justify one weather, then the Pokemon can generally use all of them.
What with Krillowatt's Magic Guard and stat spread, it can become another weather producer which also acts as the "anti-counter" to your weather team.
I understand that it's unlikely to see it that way, but if I could set up Sandstorm w/o Tyranitar, while also staying in to hit that Scizor that switched in? Yeah, I'd probably end up taking it. Similarly, the pure power of Surf denies the ultimate Hail counter (due to Abomasnow's Snow Warning), Heatran, to be completely denied the chance to annihilate the chance to set it up a second time. RD teams have been covered, and Sunny Day is just asking to make the Morning Sun/ Moonlight/ Synthesis moves, which are unlikely to be implimented regardless, become 100% recovery moves.
All weather to be denied.

Yawn/ Encore: These two are effectively in the same boat as Whirlwind/Roar, which is that they are forcing switches. Even worse, on the off-chance they don't, it gives you a free turn or more to switch out, or to hit said Yawned/Encored Pkmn for a 3HKO or 4HKO.
Both to be denied.

Aqua Ring: I'm covering this for the sake of I have an actual argument for it, nothing more.
Anyway, while Aqua Ring allows us to create a stall-set, I have trouble seeing it implimented. So... I'm gaining 12% health a turn due to AR + Lefties? That leaves me with one, maybe two moves to have offensive power with, due to the fact a stall-set would need Sub. and Protect/Detect, so we're left with either Surf or Thunderbolt to give us some needed STAB-damage.
However, despite this sounding like an argument to allow it, no one will ever run it. Simply because Stallrain is the better user of a stall-set of that nature, and it can do a lot of damage in different ways once it's had time to switch in.
Aqua Ring to be denied, because if I want to heal, I'll run Leftovers.

 

[beastzero13]

The problem with this logic is assuming that Kril already has the offensive stats to use to sweep in the first place-- which it does not. Yes, Agility is basically JUST for sweeping, but Kril doesn't have the raw offenses to put the move to effective use (it's been said many times that it can really only deal serious damage with SE attacks, NOT a sweeper quality) and it's already faster than a lot of things anyway. I don't see how this is in any way broken or even useful on it. At best it just ends up being a flavor move in his level-up movepool or something. Allow Agility.

Exactly my point. You just agreed that its only use is in sweeper and if we are trying to prevent this pokemon from even thinking about sweeping and agility serves no other purpose at all, then there is absolutely no reason to include it in Krillowats move pool. We dont simply add moves because they dont make a pokemon boosted.

Also, with agility imagine how good of a baton pass recipient Krillowatt would be. It has nice bulk, free LO abusage, and a good movepool plus now the added ability to boost its own speed preventing anything from using earthquake on it for a quick OHKO. Agility for disallowed

Edit: So since/if we are pretty sure it should get rest can you add rest to the allowed group? Well unless anyone would like to oppose rest. oh and resttalk for allowed too, because while it gives a form of recovery its negative side effect of sleep pretty much ruins its strategies.

 

[petrie911]

Exactly my point. You just agreed that its only use is in sweeper and if we are trying to prevent this pokemon from even thinking about sweeping and agility serves no other purpose at all, then there is absolutely no reason to include it in Krillowats move pool. We dont simply add moves because they dont make a pokemon boosted.

Also, with agility imagine how good of a baton pass recipient Krillowatt would be. It has nice bulk, free LO abusage, and a good movepool plus now the added ability to boost its own speed preventing anything from using earthquake on it for a quick OHKO. Agility for disallowed

Edit: So since/if we are pretty sure it should get rest can you add rest to the allowed group? Well unless anyone would like to oppose rest. oh and resttalk for allowed too, because while it gives a form of recovery its negative side effect of sleep pretty much ruins its strategies.

This is the wrong kind of thinking. Krill would not use Agility, because it doesn't actually help it. Therefore, it should be allowed as it is not competitive. It is up to the movepool creators to leave it out of the movepool if it is not broken. Remember, the moves are merely allowed, not required.

As for Baton Pass, you're suggesting the BPer uses a +2, passes to Krill, then Krill uses a +2, and finally sweeps. And your opponent is doing what in those 3 turns? Speed is easy to pass, anyways. Agility should be Allowed.

As far as Rain Dance goes, is giving Krill RD really going to make Rain Dance broken? Unless I'm mistaken, it's not really used all that much in OU. Since when is making a poor strategy better a bad thing? Rain Dance for Allowed.

Incidentally, the other weathers may as well be allowed, as Krill is a poor Sunny Day Pokemon, and Sandstorm and Hail are terrible when not permanent.

 

[Naxte]

Looking over this thread, I'm a bit shocked at some of the stuff I'm seeing here. People seem to be taking this adherence to the concept thing really a bit far and freaking out over stuff that there's no reason to be freaking out on. Out of this, the Rain Dance hate here surprises me the most--it's stunning to see it anywhere near Controversial or Disallowed to me. There are a few other comments that I have, but Rain Dance is my main focus.

Anyway, Rain Dance for Allowed. Seriously, this reeks of re-Ice Beam to me, except worse, since the anti-Ice Beam people did have a bit of good reasoning, but, at least out of the posts I've read against it, people haven't really been following through as much on this one. Again, just like Ice Beam was, it is a move that a Pokemon like Krilowatt should instant-get typically, so unless there's a very good reason for it being disallowed, it should be let in. And so far, I'm not seeing that. RD is hardly going to break CAP10, and it's hardly the best option for a RD team when you've got stuff like Kingdra, Starmie, Gyarados, Kabutops, Qwilfish, Floatzel, etc. Even if it gets RD, I doubt it's really going to find its way onto RD teams that much.

And in fact, that doesn't even matter, since it can be used on a RD team regardless of whether or not it itself gets it, so I'm not seeing how this is an issue at all. Whether we deny it RD or not won't affect it's ability to be a member of RD teams: all that changes is whether or not it can set it up itself. And that comes to the next point: since, even if CAP10 gets Rain Dance, because it doesn't have access to moves like U-turn or blistering fast speed, it's very doubtful that it will be used as a RD lead. Pokemon like Azelf (due to it's speed and U-turn), Uxie (has some bulk, while also having decent speed, but most importantly in this case (as Krilly doesn't have it and it really helps for a RD lead) U-turn), Electrode (speed), and even Kingdra (due to having space for it due to covering everything with just its two STAB moves) are better in that field than Krilowatt, so it's doubtful that it will really see much use as a RD lead.

But in any case, what really hits home for me on this is how it's a typical move that Kriowatt should be getting anyway like Substitute and Protect, and how, even if its denied RD, it won't stop people from using it on Rain teams anyway if they want to (plus, CAP10 doesn't make the greatest RD lead anyway), and so, I'm not seeing the real point in denying it the option. Due to that, since it is a prevalent TM, it should be Allowed, unless someone can actually bring forth some good reasoning as to why Krilowatt would actually outclass stuff like Azelf and co as RD leads, and as a result threaten the concept by making it end up primarily used for that purpose (which, as I've explained, I'm not really expecting, since the typical ones seem to outclass Krilly in that department, so I'm not all that worried about it ending up dominating the RD lead market).

Beyond that, I just have a few musings, really, but nothing I feel as strongly about as Rain Dance. I'm leaning more towards Aqua Ring being Allowed. The move's pretty much a gimmick. Stuff like Milotic and Wallrein get it, but they just can't find the moveslot for it, because the move just isn't worth it. It's just 6% recovery per turn, and you don't start getting it until you give up that moveslot for it and find a chance to actually use the move. Plus, again, it's only six percent. You have to have used it and been out for over four turns before it even recovers as much as Moonlight and its clones would have in bad weather, nevermind normal or good weather. Plus, even combining that with Leftovers recovery, I'm not all that worried, as one of the abilities we were toying around with (Poison Heal) would have healed that same 12% per turn. Had we actually given CAP10 Poison Heal, then maybe I might have been a bit concerned with Aqua Ring in combination with it. But with the way things went, I can't say I'm really that worried about it, myself.

Lastly, I'd also like for Transform to be Allowed, as I'd love to test out a high-HP Pokemon that actually has the move. However, for that very reason, I'm scared that it could potentially be broken in standard play. However, that is theorymon, and I can't be certain of how well that would work in standard play. Krilowatt still has to find a chance to switch in and actually perform it, and once it does, at best, it's hoping on a Speed Tie if the Pokemon does have a move that's super-effective on itself. If it doesn't, it's basically hoping that the opponent actually switches and gives it a free turn of setup of some sort (and in both cases, due to the 5 PP on all moves, it's ability to do all that much... is a bit limited). If the opponent actually does have something like a Dusknoir or Shuckle, it could be a bit much, but that's extremely situational, and relies on the player actually having Krilowatt and the opponent Dusknoir/Shuckle, which is rare. Plus, neither Dusknoir or Shuckle have access to reliable recovery and Dusknoir's main method of healing itself, Pain Split, isn't so great with high HP and would work against Krilowatt there. But in any case, it's hard to say where this would go exactly, so I'd like to see it Allowed for now, unless someone can convince me that it's broken or something. But as I said, this is more just a personal musing of mine, and is more just something I've just always been curious about moreso than anything, so I won't actually push too hard on this one either way. Either way though, it would be nice to see some more opinions on this.