Ladder Balanced Hackmons

I got plenty of sets but I don't want to share them. I feel like I'm some sort of BH magician.
If you're talking about Sturdy Shedinja, we all know. :toast:

Also on the topic of Shedinja, an -ate Shedinja does the wonderful job of removing whatever ghost types that may switch in. They simply assume you have Sturdy. Use endeavour and Volt switch, as a good number of mons have Spiky Shield. You can also give it Rapid Spin for an unblockable way of removing hazards if they're used when you're still in the field.

And I don't want to brag a lot, but I do have the bragging right of having used an -ate Shedinja from long before, possibly the first to do so. It's been only a month since I've seen others using it sparsely.
 
If you're talking about Sturdy Shedinja, we all know. :toast:

Also on the topic of Shedinja, an -ate Shedinja does the wonderful job of removing whatever ghost types that may switch in. They simply assume you have Sturdy. Use endeavour and Volt switch, as a good number of mons have Spiky Shield. You can also give it Rapid Spin for an unblockable way of removing hazards if they're used when you're still in the field.

And I don't want to brag a lot, but I do have the bragging right of having used an -ate Shedinja from long before, possibly the first to do so. It's been only a month since I've seen others using it sparsely.
That is almost lliterallymy exact shednja set

Shedinja @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pixilate
252ATK/252Spe/ 4SPA
Some defense lowering, speed boosting nature
Endeavor
Extremespeed
Recycle
Volt Switch

I use this with a sturdy shedinja and got to 1500+ on the ladder with mainly just those netting kills. And then I started being lazy and haven't played any BH in a while. I'll usually scout shedinja switchins for a few turns with the sturdy one before going all out on endeavor.
 
And I don't want to brag a lot, but I do have the bragging right of having used an -ate Shedinja from long before, possibly the first to do so. It's been only a month since I've seen others using it sparsely.
You're definitely not the first one. Lcass4919 has used it before, and Uselesscrab and I theorymonned it, along with Scrappy, over 6 months ago. And we were not the first to do so.
 
To be honest, the main issue with the whole idea is Rocky Helmet. Some of my best teams lack a Ghost-type, relying entirely on Rocky Helmets and various forms of passive damage to kill Shedinja. Now obviously this isn't the best idea, but -ate Shedinja still loses to all of these things, so if I were to switch in, say, Rocky Helmet Fur Coat Darmanitan-Zen, it would die regardless.

However, I have struggled to counter these things in the past, but it's probably a good idea to include things on your team that serve as both Sturdy and gimmick Shedinja counters.
 
You're definitely not the first one. Lcass4919 has used it before, and Uselesscrab and I theorymonned it, along with Scrappy, over 6 months ago. And we were not the first to do so.
There's no way to determine exactly. But I used one as soon as Gen VI BH and PH was in place. But I can safely say I have seen ~5 ate Shedinja right from the beginning of Gen VI. Maybe someone else faced a lot of them.

I peaked at #9 on the BH ladder, mostly owing to my Dual Shedinja (One ate and one Sturdy) and of course, Regigigas and Chansey. Fill in the other two spots with Offensive Powerhouses (No setup) and you're good to go.
 
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-Ate Sheddy is nearly identical to Scrappy Sheddy though, which has been around at least since I started playing Gen V BH (main difference is Pixel/Frige Sheddy can SEly hit Giratina with E-Speed). It's very uncommon, but it's been out there for a while now.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
There's no way to determine exactly. But I used one as soon as Gen VI BH and PH was in place. But I can safely say I have seen ~5 ate Shedinja right from the beginning of Gen VI. Maybe someone else faced a lot of them.

I peaked at #9 on the BH ladder, mostly owing to my Dual Shedinja (One ate and one Sturdy) and of course, Regigigas and Chansey. Fill in the other two spots with Offensive Powerhouses (No setup) and you're good to go.
lol. i peaked #1 with a dual shedinja team not too long ago, one with aerialate(personally better then the other two since the rare heatran exists and i prefered killing it, then potentially killing ph gira) dual shedinja has always been a thing with scrappy assisting, allthough now with the 30% power boost on espeed it actually does a decent amount.

also:
To be honest, the main issue with the whole idea is Rocky Helmet. Some of my best teams lack a Ghost-type, relying entirely on Rocky Helmets and various forms of passive damage to kill Shedinja. Now obviously this isn't the best idea, but -ate Shedinja still loses to all of these things, so if I were to switch in, say, Rocky Helmet Fur Coat Darmanitan-Zen, it would die regardless.

However, I have struggled to counter these things in the past, but it's probably a good idea to include things on your team that serve as both Sturdy and gimmick Shedinja counters.
rocky helmit doesnt solve anything for the main problem with shedinja. in that its a pivot with revenge killing properties. now most people are oddly into the revenge killing side, but in my personal experience just having shedinja able to hop in and switch out on powerful attacks feared me WAY more then endevoir EVER could. in fact ive never lost to a endevoir strategy before...but i HAVE lost because shedinja effectively pp stalled my offensive threats with baton pass. forcing a forfeit on my end. personally, i am fond of running a pursuiter with priority(mega mewtwo x/y work) whilst having them run rocky helmit(making them 100% shed counters) however, moldy gengar still takes the cake.

another thing is scrapsheds main purpose is to ko something and to make sheds life easier, if it hits a rocky helmet user, then all shed has to do is clean it up with ice shard meanwhile if it somehow gets healing, you at least know it has rocky helmet, so you dont endevoir stupidly, honestly, i found it funny because people kept trying to eliminate my scrap shed, moreso then my REAL shed, while my scrapshed was actually my least valued member of the team(half the time it did nothing. i even considered removing it at one point but kept it anyways).

but honestly, for dual shed, the best method of action is just attacking even if you know sheds coming out, i mean, eventually they have to make a risky play with scrapshed, and once that sash is gone switch to your shed counter, since they wont want to take another powerful attack. i mean, when i used my dual shed team, i swear NO ONE actually tried to outpredict me. and i always won due to it. it was kinda sad. and if they set up rocks, and one of my 3 defoggers just removed it right in their face.

thats another thing i want to throw out there, triple defoggers is actually really good, worth it for any shedinja team, my contrary team had it, and i swear shedinja never died, i had a bouncefogger, contrary offensivefogger, and prankfogger while always getting mocked for using it(and prank xern ;~;), my contraryspam team actually got pretty popular due to its effectiveness and got me pretty high up on the ladder(i want to say 1, but i think i fell short to 3 or 5 idr.)
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Revival, I've been recently trying out a modified version of one of gen5's older inventions that we used to use just to play around with some less commonly used things for fun


Power Plant (Dialga) @ Adamant Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- King's Shield
- Tail Glow/Infestation/Stealth Rock/Anything really
- Draco Meteor
- Doom Desire
Some calcs for the interested:

252+ SpA Adamant Orb Tinted Lens Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 310-366 (90.3 - 106.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Adamant Orb Tinted Lens Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Mega Aggron: 324-382 (94.1 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Adamant Orb Tinted Lens Dialga Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Mega Aggron: 348-412 (101.1 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Adamant Orb Tinted Lens Dialga Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 334-394 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Adamant Orb Tinted Lens Dialga Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 198-234 (61.1 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Adamant Orb Tinted Lens Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 184-216 (56.7 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(boosted now)
+3 252+ SpA Adamant Orb Tinted Lens Dialga Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Kyogre: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+3 252+ SpA Adamant Orb Tinted Lens Dialga Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Darmanitan-Z: 426-502 (102.8 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And my last and personal favorite:

+3 252+ SpA Adamant Orb Tinted Lens Dialga Doom Desire vs. +1 248 HP / 4+ SpD (Chansey Transformed): 506-596 (71.9 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+3 252+ SpA Adamant Orb Tinted Lens Dialga Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD (Blissey Transformed): 832-980 (116.5 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

With no 510 ev's anymore this thing basically blasts holes into pretty much anything. Pretty basic strat; fire off Doom, Tail glow if you can and KS. Otherwise switch and let it blast something later. Plus the opponent will probably switch in stuff that won't be able to take a hit with their resistance gone. Alternatively fire off doom, and then immediately do a Draco and switch to get around the stat drop. It's fun!

E: Lcass4919 I have no idea how we end up writing posts near the same time as each other all the time >.> lol

E2: Already won a bh tourney with te team built for this (and already have some imitators too lel)
 
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Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Lcass4919 I have no idea how we end up writing posts near the same time as each other all the time >.> lol
its prolly because our minds have been sewn togeather. or maybe its because i leech off your talent. either or.

as the saying goes "great minds dont think alike but they do tend to post in forums at the same time then comment about it usually having the same outcome point of veiw but sometimes tends to wander in two completely different paths making the first part of this quote pointless since its allready been proven false in this scenario unless you take it in a technical term about how sometimes the same point of veiw is actually a complete opposite point of view while in reality points of veiws are all subjective making this entire point pointless which is technically impossible but at the same time nothing is imposs-" you get the gist.

in all seriousness, that is creepy. usually when i post, you post right after lel
 

Clone

Free Gliscor
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
It may just be my position on the ladder (I just started playing and just made top 500), but I haven't really had too many problems with sturdy ninja. I mean, I did at first, but I adapted by running things that have utility while still dealing with this threat. Things like Will o Poison heal Xerneas and Mold. Breaker a Spooky Plate. Mega Gengar are two things that come to mind.

On an unrelated note, I've been having a lot of fun with Lead Magic Bounce SR. Mega Gyarados. Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Crab Hammer, Stealth Rock with Max HP and attack has worked out as a great lead for me. It handles Lead Mold Breaker Deos and generally any other lead I've come across.

Other than that I've been having a lot of fun with Contrary. Mega. Blaziken. Not sure if it's standard or not but Vontrary. V Create is a hell of a lot of fun to use.
 
Lead Magic Bounce SR. Mega Gyarados. Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Crab Hammer, Stealth Rock with Max HP and attack has worked out as a great lead for me. It handles Lead Mold Breaker Deos and generally any other lead I've come across.
How, exactly, does this handle lead Mold Breaker Deoxys-Speed? If the Deoxys-Speed uses Spore or Dark Void, they still are then guaranteed to get off Stealth Rock (since your Magic Bounce is pretty pointless, as they have Mold Breaker, so they don't care). Also, Magic Bounce Venusaur-Mega with Venusaurite walls that Gyarados completely. In my opinion, Prankster Taunt is a significantly better way of handling Deo-S leads.

I do agree with you about Contrary Mega Blaziken. Remember to carry a counter to it on your team, though, because those sets can't really beat Imposter.
 

Clone

Free Gliscor
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
How, exactly, does this handle lead Mold Breaker Deoxys-Speed? If the Deoxys-Speed uses Spore or Dark Void, they still are then guaranteed to get off Stealth Rock (since your Magic Bounce is pretty pointless, as they have Mold Breaker, so they don't care). Also, Magic Bounce Venusaur-Mega with Venusaurite walls that Gyarados completely. In my opinion, Prankster Taunt is a significantly better way of handling Deo-S leads.

I do agree with you about Contrary Mega Blaziken. Remember to carry a counter to it on your team, though, because those sets can't really beat Imposter.
I use a Lum Berry on him, but yeah, I guess you're right. I haven't seen them go for a double spore very often, and by that time they're usually low enough to be KOed before they can do anything else. Idk. It's worked for me, but it may just be m personal experience.

As for Blaziken, what exactly counters imposter Chansey? It's been a bitch to kill so I could use some help with that.
 
I use a Lum Berry on him, but yeah, I guess you're right. I haven't seen them go for a double spore very often, and by that time they're usually low enough to be KOed before they can do anything else. Idk. It's worked for me, but it may just be m personal experience.

As for Blaziken, what exactly counters imposter Chansey? It's been a bitch to kill so I could use some help with that.
Oh, Lum Berry. That's pretty smart. Safety Goggles might also work. In that case, it's a bit better than I initially thought.

And as for Blaziken, it's going to be difficult to beat Chansey outright unless you run something weird like Imprison or Substitute and get it off before the switch-in. Something like Unaware physically defensive Darmanitan-Zen, though, could wall it pretty well. I've had a lot of success using that to beat Contraries in the past.
 

Clone

Free Gliscor
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Sorry for one liner but PSA: The whole meta counters chansey all you have to do is adjust your moves
For the record I wasn't claiming she was OP. I'm simply asking what the best way to deal with her is. I'm not very familiar with the tier and just asking for a little help.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
That's like saying: All Pokemon counter Giratina. Simply adjust your moves.

The truth is far from that. It's entirely situational and in most situations, Chansey has the upper hand due to its phenomenal bulk.
the main difference is that chansey is an actual copy of your pokemon, therefore you have 100% control over your opponents imposter. unlike giratina, whom the opponent has total control over, and may run a move none of your pokemon can take(idk, will o wisp for example). meanwhile you can alter your team to counter one another, and tbh, its not hard at all and all the higher up players do so with relative ease. now, chansey is VERY much stronger then it was pre ev limit, but as far as "it having the upper hand" usually isnt true considering you have a 100% counter to your sets just waiting to come in on it and do its shenanigans. heck, you can even create viable chansey counters WITHOUT resorting to a different counterpoke, no guard lum berry mega mewtwo easily fucks over chansey for example, and you can proceed to parafusion it to death. poison healer pokemon like xern, regi, and ogre easily handle imposter via "risk reward" sets (quiverdance with magma storm moonblast and spore for example) or more "guarenteed counter" sets like regigigas with facade, spiky sheild, knock off and espeed. ive tried both and both work EXTREMELY well. meanwhile you can STILL pack a counter for regi in mega aggron(the best bouncer/perisher imo) with aggronite.

chansey is not impossible to deal with. in fact, its VERY easy given you dont make a team thats weak to it. if your gunna run a team of ilates, or a team of contrary, your obviously going to fall to chansey. chansey is one of 3 factors that keeps this meta from "hyper setup offense" and honestly, lets keep it that way. not like a chansey ban will ever come into consideration though lol

edit:inb4 flint comments
 
The problem with your argument is that you assume that checking = countering.

Unless you dedicate an entire Pokémon and its moveset, notwithstanding the fact that the Chansey stays in on a losing battle, you can claim to have countered it.

Most of the time. Chansey switches in, or rather should switch in on an Offensive Mon and threaten your team with it.

It's very, very hard to build a team that takes care of Chansey, Shedinja AND the rest like bulky Toxic Healers, not to mention Offensive mons.
 
A common fallacy regarding Chansey, and one that I've seen a lot in helping people learn how to play BH, is that you can carry a single "Imposter counter" that will make all your problems go away. I feel as though in this quote:

DinaIsha said:
Unless you dedicate an entire Pokémon and its moveset, notwithstanding the fact that the Chansey stays in on a losing battle, you can claim to have countered it.
you have fallen victim to that mistake. Like Lcass said, it's more a matter of Imposter-proofing each individual Pokemon to deal with Chansey, like putting a status move on a Poison Healer, or Thousand Waves on a random defensive Pokemon. And if all else fails, and there isn't another straightforward way to wall something, just put a defensive Pokemon that beats its coverage on your team, and you'll be fine.

And as for building a team that takes care of Chansey, Shedinja, and Poison Healers, Mega Gengar does the first two. Then, if you just carry a wall for -ates, you can bring a couple of offensive Pokémon (e.g. a Protean Mewtwo or an -ate user of your own) to beat the Poison Healers, maybe with an Unaware and an Imposter to deal with setup.
 

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