Preliminarily tagging
ascriptmaster because TI told me to ask someone else about randbats stuff last time and probably a good idea to tag
The Immortal also for this in case he rejects the proposal
For a while now, PorygonZ and Malamar issues have been extremely common reports on this thread due to issues with too many rejections between NP/Trick/Conversion or RestTalk/Dark STAB requirement/Happy Hour resulting in Trick Conversion PZ, NP move 1 ZCPZ, RestTalk ZHH Malamar, etc.
These issues persist because the amount of rejections leave the set generator no choice but to add whatever remaining moves exist that haven't been rejected on the set. There is no way to fix this via conventional methods as far as I know.
However, looking back on this thread on page 19, I noticed some talk on rejection conditions, in which a set that fits certain (negative) specifications will be trashed and replaced with a different Pokemon. Ascriptmaster, when describing this, stated that this should not be used unless there is no other solution to the problem and the set is beyond unserviceable in play.
Personally, I feel that these problematic sets I've listed earlier definitely constitute "illegal" sets, they are actually relatively common (I've gotten NP move 1 ZCPZ five times in the past month), and they seem to be unsolvable by any other means from an outsider's perspective.
Therefore, my proposal is to
add rejection conditions for Conversion+Trick, Nasty Plot+Conversion, and Rest or Sleep Talk+Happy Hour if there is no other way I'm not seeing to prevent these issues altogether. I'm aware this is a big suggestion, but I hope it's not entirely off-base. Thanks for reading.
E: also replace flame wheel with stomping tantrum on raticate; it's stronger and hits rock-types and heatran at the cost of not hitting ferro/sciz/etc
Very good ideas.
Also, for Raticate, I'm starting to wonder if I'd like it to have throat chop or crunch over sucker punch.
- Pros of sucker punch :
Grabbing a kill against a faster but weak defensively opponent after Swords Dance (think M-Beedrill, Naganadel, Swellow, Ninjask, Dugtrio)
Grabbing a kill against a faster opponent that is weak to dark types (think Deoxys, Alakazam, Gengar, U-Necrozma, Mismagius, Froslass, Gourgeist-Small)
- Pros of throat chop/crunch
Added benefit of preventing opponent from using bug buzz, hyper voice (especially M-Altaria and M-Gardevoir), clanging scale, chatter and even heal bell, the later which can be useful at times.
Of the Pokémon named above, several can easily play around sucker punch, rendering Raticate useless and forcing a switch if it doesn't have flame wheel or stomping tantrum. Notably, Deoxys can have e-speed and Swellows has quick attack, and Dugtrio, Mismagius, Gengar, Alakazam and Gourgeist can play around with substitute and/or moves like disable, encore, leech seed, spikes, d-bond, synthesis, etc.
Denting/revenge killing an opponent under tailwind, or that has used a speed boosting move or that has a choice scarf.
Against slower ghost types (Giratina, Chandelure, Mimikyu, Trevenant, Dhelmise, A-Marowak, Shedinja, Golurk, Aegislash/Doublade, Dusknoir, Banette, etc.), it ensures that you get a good deal of damage and do not get played around with non damaging moves. Chandelure, A-Marowak et Aegislash/Doublade would get taken care of by replacing flame wheel with stomping tantrum (unless Aegislash is carrying air balloon), at the expense of Dhelmise, Shedinja and Trevenant, which could now freely play around basically.
Raticate already has decent speed that allows it to outspeed a majority of treats.
That was just food for thought while someone mentioned Raticate (no idea why I spent this time writing that for something as beta as Raticate), and I'm not pushing for anything, as I'm totally fine with sucker punch (both have their advantages). :P
In addition to the above, Sticky Web on Ribombee, please?
I'm personnally not a fan of risking not having recovery or losing a coverage move for sticky web, when Ribombee is generally a revenge killer and even a sweeper with butterfly dance. Sticky web is useful obviously, and often a big winning factor, but I just don't think it has its place on a Pokémon that has that role alongside a speed boosting move (Leavanny is fast but has great use for sticky web alongside swords dance to sweep since it doesn't have a speed boosting move). I'm saying this, but at the same time, Masquerain has access to it, so I don't know. It isn't as big of a glass cannon though, and can force switches due to intimidate. I'd prefer keeping Ribombee that way, even though the thought of a fast sticky web set-upper is interesting (to avoid taunts and stuff).