yes that's the one! ty! :)
currently at 81, will post at 1k :D
yes that's the one! ty! :)
So, a while back I looked at this and found it fascinating:Run ended at 267 with this team:
Gengar@Focus Sash
Timid
31/xx/31/31/31/31
252sp.att/252spe/4 hp
~T-bolt
~Sludge Bomb
~Shadow Ball
~Protect
Thudurus-T@ Sitrus Berry
Timid
31/0/30/31/31/31
252sp.att/252spe/4 hp
~T-bolt
~HP Ice
~Taunt
~T-wave
Moltres@Wide Lens
Modest
31/xx/31/31/31/31
252sp.att/252spe/4 something
~Tailwind
~Air Slash
~Heatwave
~Protect
Back up:
Greninja@Life Orb
Naive
31/31/31/31/31/31
252sp.att/252spe/4 att
~Mat Block
~Ice Beam
~Dark Pulse
~Grass Knot
Landorus-T@Assault Vest
Adamant
31/31/31/xx/31/31
252 att/252spe/4 something (probably hp)
~EQ
~Rock Slide
~Knock off
~Superpower
Kanghaskan@kangesite
Adamant
31.31.31.17.31.31
252 att/252 Spe/4 Sp.def
~Fake Out
~Double Edge
~Drain Punch
~Sucker Punch
Sorry to type it out, don't know how to do the hide tag thing. Can someone teach me and ill gladly hide it.
Here's the loss: DFNW - WWWW - WW53 - X8D3
Easy win, made some dumb choices. Took everyone out but Spiritomb, was left with a burned lando and khangaskhan who can't touch spiritomb outside sucker punch. I feel stupid cause this team is solid. Could easily have hit 500+
I rarely ever went down to my last 2 and last one I think happened twice in the whole run. Was a dumb loss. Mock battled it out and I won with ease. Anyway. Doubt ill do another run with this team and I'm kinda glad it's over. Got really sick of using it.
Starting in gen 6 stationary Pokémon (obv inc. legends) automatically have 3 perfect IVs.Ok, I'll do that. Is special attack kinda negligible since you left it out with an x? or is there a certain range I should aim for?
Another thing that might only be my imagination, but could it be that legendaries in gen 6 have generally higher IVs? My Rayquaza has also 3 31 IVs. And now that suicune with 3 almost perfect stats.
Over the past two months, I have very slowly manufactured a facsimile of this team and then taken it out for a spin, seeing if it's possible for me to replicate the success My Liege had with it. I was a bit lazy about the manufacturing, as Sawk/MegaMence/Scizor were PokeGen-ed right down to the nitty-gritty--thus making this leaderboard-ineligible at this time. However, I'm far more proud about the half of the team that is legit:Posting an ongoing streak of 1000 wins in ORAS Triples.
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Team Leer Returns
The team is built around Meowstic using Prankster Leer to boost physical damage.
Talonflame @ Choice Band ** U-Ship
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SDef
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz
-U-Turn
-Protect
Meowstic @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP, 172 Def, 4 SDef, 76 Spe
-Leer
-Fake Out
-Sunny Day
-Quick Guard
Leer hits all three opponents from the center, putting them in KO range for allied moves.
Sawk @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Close Combat
-Knock Off
-Ice Punch
-Thunder Punch
Sawk is picked because of its ability, Sturdy, which functions as a free Focus Sash.
Gastrodon @ Assault Vest ** Gyges
Ability: Storm Drain
Nature: Quiet
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 164 HP, 108 Def, 220 SAtk, 12 SDef
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Scald
-Clear Smog
Gastrodon covers the team's weaknesses and dominates under Trick Room, and is the team's sole special attacker.
Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 204 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def, 4 SDef, 44 Spe
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Superpower
-Protect
Scizor adds another priority attack to take advantage of Leer and forms a Dragon/Water/Steel core for the backups.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Return
-Earthquake
-Dragon Dance
-Protect
Mega Salamence rounds out the line-up with a fourth physical sweeper to maximize Leer's potential and provides Intimidate support.Leer interacts in the following ways with various mechanics:
Leer can be used multiple times to stack Defense drops. With Focus Sash and decent bulk, Meowstic can usually use Leer several times in a battle; tough foes like Suicune or Cresselia are softened into KO range after several Leers, and at -2 or -3, resists also start dying. Leer nulls Defense boosts from Stockpile and Curse and weakens set-up sweepers until they are in KO range for a priority attack. Meowstic does not learn Taunt, but with Leer stacking, it can nearly always contribute and avoids being set-up bait. It can also use Leer while Scizor or Salamence bait with Protect, and Leer again on the next turn so that enemy is at -2 when the sweeper moves. Since the AI does not switch out, Leer's effect is permanent - even if Meowstic or its co-leads die, the enemies have been weakened for the back-ups to KO.
- Clear Body and Big Pecks stop Leer from working entirely.
- White Herb will block the stat drop, but an Intimidate switch-in could be used to clear White Herb before Leer hits. Using Leer multiple times also works.
- Contrary results in Leer increasing the target's Defense. Clear Smog can remove these boosts.
- Magic Bounce reflects Leer onto Pokémon that are adjacent to Espeon, but it will still hit the other two opponents normally.
- Quick Guard blocks Prankster Leer. The move is only used by Cobalion4, and it has used the move once in battle #440.
- Leer activates Competitive and Defiant. Bisharp4's Sucker Punch is blocked by Quick Guard, and it is not particularly threatening. Competitive Gothitelle and Competitive Milotic can be threatening; it's possible to scout for the ability on Gothitelle, as Frisk is announced and Shadow Tag prevents switching.
- Clear Smog removes Leer Defense drops. It's still worth using it on Lati@s1 and Evasion boosters, among others.
- Wide Guard does not block Leer, despite Leer hitting all opponents. As is usual for the AI, it uses Wide Guard even with none of the Pokémon on the field having moves that it might block.
Regirock, Landorus4, Latios2, Latias2, Regice, Mandibuzz4 and Metagross4 are the biggest threats that ignore Leer, and are generally the team's worst match-ups. Against these foes, spamming Leer is still useful to weaken the other two enemies.
Hilariously, Leer also increases the damage that the AI inflicts on its allies with Earthquake and Explosion. Against multiple EQ users, enemy Pokémon often KO each other with the Defense drops. In one battle, the AI's Garchomp4 scored five KOs with a single Earthquake, sweeping the whole field clean.
Sunny Day removes Hail and Sandstorm so that Sturdy and Focus Sash remain intact and Sand Veil/Snow Cloak/Sand Rush are deactivated. Prankster Quick Guard has +4 priority to Fake Out's +3, making it block the move entirely. It also blocks Extremespeed from sniping a weakened Talonflame and priority moves from KOing 1HP Sawk.
147 Speed outspeeds Talonflame by 1. At -1 after Icy Wind has hit both Talonflame and Meowstic, it is still one point faster.
Choice Band on Talonflame is generally an inferior item to Life Orb or Sharp Beak in the Maison. Scizor and Talonflame could even swap their items - but Talonflame needs the extra power of Choice Band to secure KOs after Leer. I initially ran Tailwind, but since the team has three Pokémon with priority moves, a Choice Scarf user, a Pokémon with 120 base Speed, and a Pokémon with base 39 Speed, I never used it and replaced it with U-Turn. Protect is useful in situations where Talonflame can draw in two attacks with Protect to create space before switching out.
A calc:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 140-165 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Sawk hits a great Speed tier with Choice Scarf. Sturdy enables it to survive and adds much-needed reliability to a double Choice lead that could backfire horribly. I think it's the best non-Mega option for the slot with Meowstic - Yoshi1777's team which I based this team on used Mega Kangaskhan in a similar spot, which might also work. Meowstic should be EV'd to outspeed Mega Kangaskhan in order to move before Sucker Punch hits if ran alongside it.
Gastrodon is EV'd for mixed bulk with Assault Vest, with an emphasis on Defense due to Gastrodon's lower base Defense and Assault Vest already boosting Special Defense.
In Doubles, Storm Drain stops the AI from using Water moves after its activation. In Triples, the AI's behavior depends on positioning - in short, if Gastrodon is on the left or the right and the enemy is in the center or the right, the AI behaves as if Storm Drain had never been activated. In the other cases, it behaves identically to Doubles and Water attacks stop being used. For details, see here.
Scizor replaces Aegislash from the previous version of the team. Scizor fits the team a lot better with a stronger priority attack and no EQ weakness.
Mega Salamence is the MVP of the team. It works unexpectedly well with Meowstic, and has massive comeback potential when things don't go well. Aerilate Return is equally powerful to Choice Band Brave Bird. Dragon Dance is rarely used with Leer already boosting physical attacks and its excellent 120 base Speed, but it enables sweeping in some situations.
Ideally, battles will start with Meowstic using either Leer or Fake Out while Talonflame and Sawk KO two enemies. Gastrodon is the common switch option for Talonflame - Sawk's typing isn't too great, and any of the three back-ups might replace it depending on the opposition. Meowstic typically stays in using Leer repeatedly until it dies, unless it gets Taunted. Against Sand Stream/Snow Warning leads, Meowstic clears the skies with Sunny Day; against opposing Fake Out users, Quick Guard is the go-to move.
Gastrodon and Scizor are the preferred switch options - Salamence is sometimes also switched in, but keeping it at full health gets the most out of its enormous Mega stats and it's vulnerable if brought in prior to Mega Evolution. If the leads fail, Gastrodon/Scizor/Salamence have a lot of bulk and can come back from a deficit, especially if the opponents have eaten a Leer.
Sturdy and Focus Sash are troublesome as they prevent securing OHKOs regardless of Leer. Bulky foes that survive an attack even after Leer aren't fun for the leads, though Leer stacking helps.
Calcing whether or not an attack will OHKO the enemy after Leer and moving accordingly is crucial to using the team, as missing KOs will typically result in losing Pokémon and there is no control aside from a single Fake Out user. Misplaying on Turn 1 is likely to result in disaster, as seen in some of the battle videos.Battle video: #1000 - 4YNW-WWWW-WWXV-HJ96 vs. Dewgong/Venusaur/Shiftry/Gogoat/Feraligatr/Nidoking
Proof video.
Battle video: #757 - STRW-WWWW-WWXS-A2MG vs. Kingdra/Lapras/Ludicolo/Floatzel/Weezing/Dewgong
Storm Drain test video against Beauty Lana/Claire.
Battle video: #612 - JBWW-WWWW-WWXV-HJB3 vs. Articuno/Landorus/Heatran/Regirock/Regice/Cresselia
The closest battle in the streak and the most exciting battle video of the bunch.
Battle video: #474 - VW8W-WWWW-WWXV-HJN2 vs. Metagross/Eelektross/Dragonite/Walrein/Rhyperior/Glaceon
A messy battle with bad MUs, questionable plays, and a Meteor Mash Attack boost.
Battle video: #320 - 85EW-WWWW-WWXV-HM5D vs. Gigalith/Hippowdon/Excadrill/Tyranitar/Gliscor/Garchomp
The obligatory Worker Rasmus battle. Features Sunny Day deactivating Sand Veil and Salamence easily surviving Outrage.
That right there is the main problem. You should have everything PP maxed on the sweeper, and then it would be no problem for Drapion to just switch in on any Umbreon and set up alongside it while PP stalling its attacks (or at the very least you'd have 9 extra chances to get a crit with Knock Off). Curse/Rest users won't use Rest at full health and won't use Curse when they're at +6, so if you just hold off on attacking you can stall out their attacking moves pretty easily and then just get rid of them. Of course you could also run Glalie instead of Drapion and break through defensive stat boosters with Frost Breath - that would be the better sweeper with Red Card support and probably about as unbeatable as it is in the Battle Tree.As I was browsing on the new stuff people came up with for the battle tree in SM, I saw a new idea by GG Unit using Durant & Drapion and having the 3rd pokémon as an emergency to fix things so everything works as intended instead of being a last resort. So I kinda did the same thing for ORAS battle maison.
My loss was at 190 N2SG-WWWW-WW5S-9BC4
Lead Umbreon4 which had Curse and for some reason I felt confident that I would get atleast a single crit after fully setting up Drapion but nope,15 hits 0 crits. I should have just got rid of the Umbreon with Hydreigon since I'm running Knock off over Crunch.
In doubles/triples it makes sense for this to be a more offensive set; the format is super momentum based, so it's really helpful if your Politoed can actually do something turn 1, and having to switch it out by default is not good tbh. Choice Scarf is usually the best set for this reason (you really don't need Damp Rock, it's rare for battles not to be decided yet by turn 5, and for those cases it's better to rely on a core that can function outside of rain too (which you should have anyways)). Specs technically works in theory I guess but Politoed shouldn't be your main damage source, and with Scarf it's at least almost guaranteed to do something.Left Starter
Politoed @ Damp Rock
Drizzle
Calm
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe
- Toxic
- Protect
- Scald
- Rest
Politoed has one job: get the rain up and switch out. The IVs are so that it can serve to get KOs if it has to come back into battle, but this did pose some issues later in the streak, so I'm planning to retrain it as HP/SpD for if I try again. Scald is its main method of dealing direct damage and fishing for burns, and Toxic, Rest, and Protect are for stalling.
To be entirely honest Torn-T isn't considered a good Pokemon in non-singles formats, just doesn't have many differentiating qualities in those, and I feel it's also a bit of a suboptimal choice in your centre lead position since you want to be all about overwhelming the opponent and in the end it's pretty weak. The potential that it does have is also kinda wasted in the centre, since one of its main draws would be being able to hit anywhere on the field with Hurricane, i.e. I could see it doing things as a backup when it can come in on simply any position and hit stuff from the sides too. Lead U-turn is always a cute idea though, and I don't exactly want to tell you "just use Ludicolo"....Centre Starter
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Regenerator
Rash
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 SpD
- Knock Off
- Dark Pulse
- Hurricane
- U-turn
This Tornadus set is built around spamming 100% accurate STAB Hurricanes in the rain and providing support in taking out opposing Grass-types that threaten my Swampert. With U-turn and Regenerator, it can also serve as a useful pivot in switching out to Gyarados, but I didn't really make enough use of this as I should have. Knock Off allows Tornadus to remove threatening items from the opponent, and I didn't really like Dark Pulse on this set. If I do this challenge again, I'll likely change the item to a Choice Scarf and replace Dark Pulse with Psychic.
Adamant >>> Naughty but I don't need to tell you that. Also needs Protect somewhere, especially with that huge Grass weakness and it not getting the Mega Speed boost right away, I don't see PuP coming into play often outside of battles that you'd win anyways so it makes most sense to replace that one. Gyarados needs it too for the similar reasons, and if you're not going Mega then Waterfall / Return has the best two-move coverage. All-out offense with Waterfall / Earthquake / Ice Fang works too but Gyarados actually has the defensive typing to be able to semi-consistently pull off a Dragon Dance with proper positioning. Gyarados might need reconsidering outright though, not because it's bad but because it may be kinda overkill and you need to be able to hold out defensively too, especially if you were to add something like Ludicolo too.Right Starter
Swampert-M @ Swampertite
Swift Swim
Naughty
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
- Power-Up Punch
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
The ace of the team. With the rain up and Swampert in Mega form, it hits a terrifying 244 speed, which is only outsped by Aerodactyl1, Entei3, and Manectric4, one of which isn't seen at higher streaks and one of which can't touch Swampert at all. Waterfall is the main STAB method of dealing damage behind 222 Attack at Level 50, Earthquake is for dealing with Electric-types and for spread damage, Power-Up Punch is used when cleaning up low-health kills to get Attack boosts, and Ice Punch is coverage for Flying-, Grass-, and Dragon-types. Ideally, the way my team is arranged, Earthquake should never have collateral damage on my teammates, which is a good thing.
Ok I see where you're going with this but idk if Raichu is the best fit in this role; as you noted it's very frail and weak, and the Air Balloon isn't a reliable Ground immunity. Bulky Specs Thundurus-T is the best Pokemon people have been using in this role, not easy to take down + hits the Water-types you want it to take on (and generally anything tbh) pretty hard + doesn't ever care about Swampert's Earthquake, and ofc your team could use Thunder over Thunderbolt. You would lose Lightning Rod's redirection, but I would recommend you swap out some Electric-weak Pokemon anyways tbh, and between Swampert + Electric-types' general frailty you could be pretty well equipped to handle them as is with offensive pressure.Backups
Raichu @ Air Balloon
Lightning Rod
Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 SpD
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot
- Nasty Plot
Raichu isn't a very good Pokemon stats-wise, but it has one job here and it does it well. On the first turn of every battle, I switch Politoed out and send in Raichu. Lightning Rod is the key here, redirecting Electric-type attacks away from Tornadus and Gyarados and getting stat boosts from it. Thunder has perfect accuracy in the rain and hits extremely hard. Volt Switch is a secondary option which allows Raichu to switch out if need be. Grass Knot is for coverage and taking out Ground-types, while I never really ended up using Nasty Plot. I may end up just relying on Lightning Rod boosts and using Signal Beam as a fourth coverage option, as Raichu redirecting Electric-type attacks happened more than you think, sometimes multiple times in the same battle. The Air Balloon allows Raichu to not die immediately and can trick AI opponents into wasting their time targeting it, allowing the team some time to get hits in.
Im not sure if this answers your question, but Cloyster loves to blow up on anything that resists his STAB moves, especially stuff like Lapras that resist icicle spear 4 times. Ive been thinking about running protect instead of surf or explosion on it which would nullify fake out weakness since I could use protect whenever a new mon comes in, but it could also give my opponent a free turn to setup. But right now I rarely face a fake out mon and if I do, they use it on Dragonite.So what's Cloyster's Explosion hit?
This doesnt sound right. While it is true that Walrein4 threatens to hax through my team (Ive never looked up movesets so far, so Im only considering sheer cold + ice beam/blizzard here), I got a few options to deal with it. The first option would be to not switch out but go for outrage right away. Since all Walreins are speedcapped at 85, any teammember can outspeed it without a boost. Even if Walrein takes down Dragonite, I can go for revenge kill next turn and make it an even position. The second option would be to switch on Cloyster right away. Even if sheer cold hits, its sash will safe it and it could in return blow up on Walrein. In case it survives, again, I can go for the revenge kill, having an even position.Walrein4, of course. Except it runs into Lax Incense and doesn't hit at all, making it an extremely productive move.
I'll try to be somewhat short on this...I would be more concerned about getting quick claw OHKO haxed, but theres nothing you can do against that anyway. Im at 400 wins right now without any casualties, Ive never looked up movesets and never used any damage calculators. Ive had a few more terrible matchups due to misplay, but whatever, the rest of my team could carry. Sometimes it is best not to setup but go for the kill with Dragonite right away. Ive also noticed that the ai adapts their teams to the types I use, and maybe it solely depends on my first mon. I face lots of ice, plant, fairy, rock and dragon leads with lead Dragonite. When Cloyster was my lead, I faced much fighting, water, ice, rock leads.
That might be true. But Ive noticed that with lead Cloyster Ive faced Sawk and Throh a lot more than I do now with lead Dragonite. I play OR on citra if it matters.The AI doesn't adapt their team to yours. It's pregenerated randomly based on the availability trainer you are facing.
Rather than using selective memory, you could try to write down every single enemy team comp you face over 100+ battles, and easily notice how the "unfortunate" matchups are a minority.
Mega metagross is a setup sweeper that cannot work as a defensive switch in? Dragonite cannot be a defensive switch in (primary against fire, ground) if I ever decided to switch it out in round 1? About evasion: I just boost as much as I want and spam attacks. So far it took me max 3 tries to get the hit which also OHKOed. Evasion is nothing I mind because it is just a matter of time and I wont be taken down in the meantime, 1HKO isnt either unless it is combined with speed/quick claw, sash users still fall due to icicle spear (one mon with focus band survived 2 times in a row today, but Cloyster still got the OHKO on the fifth hit xD) and scarfers can be good for a surprise, but will afterwards be locked and exploited. Only Dragonite would have left a slot for sub, but Im not sure about that. I just go for the kill and have almost always the advantage of being up 1 or 2 mons very early. There are only a few matchups where I have to play around their typing. Right now Im at 515 wins and I dont get the feeling my team would fall anytime soon. I think Id be way more vulnerable to hax if I wanted to play much longer matches which include PP stalling tactics. Being up a mon after the first rounds is very appreciated and almost guarantees me the win.The point Sadistic wanted to make is that you're vulnerable to hax due to having only setup sweepers and no defensive switch in. There's plenty of both evasion, 1hko and quick claw users, as well as sash and scarfers (I heard legends of gen 6 Garchomp-34...) around in later parts of the facility.
Without a safe, defensive switch in or lead that can take a hit or setup a safe substitute to avoid 1hkos, the question isn't if you'll get haxed, but when.
What are successful singles teams that sport a defensive wall or two, in terms of successful? All of them got haxed rather later than sooner, lasting up to around 3600 battles. While it sounds nice to have an unkillable sweeper set up, in practice it means to waste countless rounds to achieve that position, wasting lots of momentum, lifetime and giving the ai plenty of chances to hax you. The most defensive mon Ive played probably were cm cune in gen3 duel tower and mega mence + aegislash pp stalling core in gen vii, but they got haxed nonetheless somewhere towards 1000 wins. Comparing all strategies Ive ever tried, my current seems by far the best.The main reason for which nearly every successful singles team sports a defensive wall or two is that neutering a lead you know and setting up a unkillable sweeper behind a substitute or similar safety measures is much more difficult to hax than having 3 offensive pokemon and hope the enemy backline is good.
Due to the nature of singles, it's relatively easy and possible to even run 4-500 matches without getting haxed down.What are successful singles teams that sport a defensive wall or two, in terms of successful? All of them got haxed rather later than sooner, lasting up to around 3600 battles. While it sounds nice to have an unkillable sweeper set up, in practice it means to waste countless rounds to achieve that position, wasting lots of momentum, lifetime and giving the ai plenty of chances to hax you. The most defensive mon Ive played probably were cm cune in gen3 duel tower and mega mence + aegislash pp stalling core in gen vii, but they got haxed nonetheless somewhere towards 1000 wins. Comparing all strategies Ive ever tried, my current seems by far the best.