Heatran can but you need to be real careful with him. If hogerpan tera's it's just completely free
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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I don't agree that he makes the meta "objectively" worse, but I get the argument. My point is we JUST had a suspect test, I don't think we should just go ahead and ban something right after a vote from the community said otherwise. We should wait a bit first, and I think DLC2, which comes out in 1.5-2 months is a good time to revisit the question.
I have as much faith in the opinions of people that voted DNB for gambit as I do the people who voted for DNB on dynamax in gen 8 rands. I see no reason to not improve the tier immensely with a kingambit ban other than nonsensical fears of this being volcarona 2. In fact, to placate people, swap volc and gambit in the tiers just because.
Honestly unless tera gets fully banned, I would rather not have either of them, because that is clearly what pushes those two over the edge, even if it does so in different ways
Because Hamu/Glimm hazards, Ninetails screens, and Gholdengo, I have not made a team without Court Change Cinderace in like 3 months lol 
Talonflame outspeeds and ohkos with brave bird (if you EV enough attack). Of course they can just tera out of it
I'm gonna say it actually. Kingambit is too much for the tier even without tera. Yes tera makes it even harder to deal with but the problem is how uncompetitive he can be. Mindgames are fine but not when you have to win 8+ of them in a row to not lose and often times you lose anyway
Some other, worse options:
- Ability shield sap sipper Azumarill
(cos thats totally the ability that azu wants to run)
- Ability shield sap sipper Goodra
(Loses to play rough) (is also a very unserious pokemon)
Kingambit would struggle to SD a lot more if there was no tera, and it literally cannot escape its 4 times weakness to fighting. So while it would be obnoxious, it would be potentially pretty managable at the end of a game unlike right now where it can just cheese past stuff with tera dark or flying for a free SD or extra power boost to okho everything, where without tera it has a much harder time doing that and pokemon like zamazenta-h and tusk could actually properly answer it. But without tera it really wouldn't be nearly as easy for gambit to set up, and it would lose the power boost of and weakness bypassing of tera that makes it so ludicrous. I think kingambit and Volc really aren't different at all in that regard where terastal is the largest factor in them being broken, allowing them to bypass flaws that would keep them in line
It probably would still be something to look out for with an answer in every game, but probably not unmanagable in a metagame without tera like it is now.
What if you
wanted to counter ogerpon
but god said:
+3 252 Atk Hearthflame Mask Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Goodra: 277-327 (72.3 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Goodra Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera: 236-280 (78.4 - 93%) -- not a KO
252+ Atk Azumarill Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera: 198-234 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Hearthflame Mask Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 221-261 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Defensive Blaze-Tauros with Body Press?
i just remembered
Welp, I guess I'm not playing singles anymore
Very sad. I telegraphed this move would come back. I knew it was, but I foolishly mis lapsed my judgement
I really like singles. I really do. But I guess it wasn't meant to be...
Welp, I guess I'm not playing singles anymore
Very sad. I telegraphed this move would come back. I knew it was, but I foolishly mis lapsed my judgement
I really like singles. I really do. But I guess it wasn't meant to be...
There are like 3 scald users in ou m8 its not that bad lol, especially since one of them is manaphy who isn't really a defensive staple anyways, more like offensive menace that masquerades as defensive with the stored power set
But...pex didn't get scald?
These are all the mons that get it from RU up. The only one that does and plays a role close to that of pex (from what I understand) is Alomomomomomomomola.
If Smogon starts banning things because a few people say “well it’s actually better this way” then the whole point of having voting system is mute and Smogon as a whole is made pointless.
Whether or not you think gambit is broken, the fact remains that it was voted to stay in the tier, and honestly right now isn't even the biggest problem I've surprisingly seem a slight decrease in gambit on ladder(probably because Ogerpon is running through the tier right now)
This is why Gambit SHOULD have been on the survey so you would have an excuse to potentially QB the evil thing. Make sure the King is on the next survey please.
No, we are absolutely not quickbanning something that did not get banned via suspect. This is tiering manipulation and abuse of power. It is not the cool maneuver you think it is -- this is malpractice. Gambit will be a suspect candidate down the line if appropriate.
Do you have any replays of that stored power set actually succeeding/have you ever seen it happen?
Dear Finchinator,
I would like to formerly apologize for what I have done. I did not know that Kingambit was not on the suspect list. I had actually looked at the suspect myself before that post was made. Talking about OU seems to put a lot of pressure and stress on you -- which isnt something I would want. I had jumped to the gun and it won't happen again. Hopefully you can see to it to accept my apology. But if you don't, I fully understand. You are my idol and my hero. I do hope this can be resolved before any further negative emotions are released
Sincerely, The2009Zapdos
I would like to formerly apologize for what I have done. I did not know that Kingambit was not on the suspect list. I had actually looked at the suspect myself before that post was made. Talking about OU seems to put a lot of pressure and stress on you -- which isnt something I would want. I had jumped to the gun and it won't happen again. Hopefully you can see to it to accept my apology. But if you don't, I fully understand. You are my idol and my hero. I do hope this can be resolved before any further negative emotions are released
Sincerely, The2009Zapdos
The problem is that it's not just "a few people", many people want gambit banned and for good reason. If gambit was legitimately healthy for the tier, the cries to ban it would not just be from low ladder scrubs like me.
look, i can understand where you're coming from, but, uh… there might be a sliiiiight conflict of interest here
still waiting on that lavos-style rant and you becoming a gen 2 ou player...
(I reacted to it to let you know)
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