4v4 Doubles Metagame Discussion Thread

Hulavuta

keeps the varmints on the run
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I've been more interested in doubles than singles nowadays, and it seems like it's the second most popular meta after singles, so finally, here is the discussion thread! Basically, talk about all the same things you'd talk about in the singles thread, but for doubles. What Pokemon do you find to be the biggest threats? What are your favorite Pokemon to use? What trends are you noticing?

I'm gonna let flarz kick this off since he has a lot to say about Landorus-T and Garchomp, two very common threats in Doubles.
 
Recently, I've seen lots of people debating over Landorus-T or Garchomp as an Earthquake user. Today, I'm going to go over the most common sets for these Pokemon, then go over their general playstyles, concluded with a pros and cons section.

Landorus-T


move 1: Earthquake - Only stab and primary spread move
move 2: Rock Slide - Secondary spread move, non STAB
move 3: U-turn - For playing Intimidate mindgames, also doing damage to Psychic-types.
move 4: Superpower / Protect - Superpower is your move for the choiced set, hitting stuff like Tyranitar and the like - Protect is your pivot if you're using non choiced
item: Choice Scarf / Focus Sash / Life Orb
nature: adamant / jolly

Garchomp

move 1: Earthquake - STAB Spread move
move 2: Dragon Claw / Dual Chomp - Dragon STAB non spread attack
move 3: Rock Slide - For hitting flying types such as Talonflame
move 4: Fire Fang / Protect - Fire Fang is your choiced option, hits stuff like Scizor - Protect is your pivot
item: Rocky Helmet / Choice Scarf
nature: adamant / jolly

Playstyles
Landorus


  • Offensive attacker with higher attack and lower speed, usually relying on scarf to do damage, more for the average creative player
Garchomp


  • More of an all around attacker, not reliant on scarf to do damage - simpler to use
Pros / Cons (Bold - Pro Regular text - con)
Landorus


  • Intimidate support, and it grants itself a little extra physical bulk
  • Can use U-turn mind-games with intimidate
  • Has a stronger STAB Earthquake
  • Weak to water, Rotom-w in particular
  • Has 1 STAB
  • 1 Dimensional
Garchomp


  • Has rough skin, allowing you to mess with Mega-Kangaskhan and other physical attackers
  • 2 STABs
  • Can play a mixed role if needed
  • Weak to fairy
  • Walled by Cresselia
  • Lower attack
And that concludes this compare / contrast article!
 
Last edited:

Hulavuta

keeps the varmints on the run
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I really love using Choice Scarf Landorus-T as it as an amazing pivot. Intimidate + U-turn is a great combo; a great advantage of U-turn is that you can switch your other Pokemon out and bring it back in within the same turn, keeping pressure on the opponent while getting rid of Intimidates/Leech Seed/Confusion etc.
 

EnGarde

Not Dead Yet
I'm curious: I made a comment about garchomp (and that I really like using it), but I don't remember what all I said. Can that comment come back, or should I just write some more good stuff about how much I like the land shark, lol?
 
IIrc you were talking about Iron Head being a good coverage move on a scarf variant. since that post is gone, I'll put that in the thread when I fix the bolding issue
 

EnGarde

Not Dead Yet
IIrc you were talking about Iron Head being a good coverage move on a scarf variant. since that post is gone, I'll put that in the thread when I fix the bolding issue
Iron head is a good coverage move, and has a higher BP than Fire Fang. Just because it isn't the set you run doesn't mean it isn't a useful move.

EDIT: Sorry, might've gotten you confused with someone else, someone was hassling me about iron head vs. fire fang. Sorry about that.
 

Deleted User 220884

Banned deucer.
A few weeks ago, I tried Battlespot Doubles, and I got a 8-0 winning streak. Im not that an expert in doubles, I just my common sense, and use what I watched from other VGC Battlers to know some stuff. I had the team consisting of: Bisharp, Garchomp, Gardevoir, Gengar(Mega), Zapdos, Dragonite. Note that I really didnt really use Dragonite, (idk why i had it on the team for some reason). I had the Telepathy Gardevoir and Scarf Chomp as my lead, and Usually at the back M-Gengar for trapping, and Bisharp for double intimidate teams (Landarous-T+Mawile, or Gyarados+Mawile) combos. Which made me beat lots of people easily (was matched up with those combos alot).

Has anyone been battled Disable Mega Gengar +Encore Whismiscott? Totally got destroyed by that.
 
Iron head is a good coverage move, and has a higher BP than Fire Fang. Just because it isn't the set you run doesn't mean it isn't a useful move.

EDIT: Sorry, might've gotten you confused with someone else, someone was hassling me about iron head vs. fire fang. Sorry about that.
I haven't used scarfchomp since bw, that's where my nubness about Iron Head came from
 
[quote=".Has anyone been battled Disable Mega Gengar +Encore Whismiscott? Totally got destroyed by that.[/quote]
Taunt is your friend in doubles because of these things. Maybe change Zapdos for a Thundurus with taunt to prevent future losses from such a team

Edit: messed up quoting, but that is a reply to DragoFish
 

EnGarde

Not Dead Yet
I haven't used scarfchomp since bw, that's where my nubness about Iron Head came from
No worries, both are useful as coverage moves. It just depends on what your team needs, lol. ^_^

A few weeks ago, I tried Battlespot Doubles, and I got a 8-0 winning streak. Im not that an expert in doubles, I just my common sense, and use what I watched from other VGC Battlers to know some stuff. I had the team consisting of: Bisharp, Garchomp, Gardevoir, Gengar(Mega), Zapdos, Dragonite. Note that I really didnt really use Dragonite, (idk why i had it on the team for some reason). I had the Telepathy Gardevoir and Scarf Chomp as my lead, and Usually at the back M-Gengar for trapping, and Bisharp for double intimidate teams (Landarous-T+Mawile, or Gyarados+Mawile) combos. Which made me beat lots of people easily (was matched up with those combos alot).

Has anyone been battled Disable Mega Gengar +Encore Whismiscott? Totally got destroyed by that.
Taunt, Quick guard blocks pranksters, leading with something offensive that can muscle past them...all good options.
 
This was something that I think of when teambuilding, but what are your guys' thoughts on Gardevoir V Sylveon? (I'll probably do a similar thing to Lando V Chomp)
 

EnGarde

Not Dead Yet
This was something that I think of when teambuilding, but what are your guys' thoughts on Gardevoir V Sylveon? (I'll probably do a similar thing to Lando V Chomp)
That's a good comp. :) Sylveon is able to fit on more teams (since it can hyper voice without using up your mega option), but gardevoir has a lot more flexibility, since it has a diverse collection of sets it can run (wide movepool, can run choice specs/scarf, offensive mega hyper voice, etc).
 
A thing I find that can be effective in doubles, is Dark Void Smeargle, while after setting up shell smash and substitute the baton passing into a fast sweeper, and always run a focus sash to take a couple of hits. It's quite overlooked as a strat in the doubles meta, but it can prove very effective and can normally lead to 4-0 sweeps.
 
A thing I find that can be effective in doubles, is Dark Void Smeargle, while after setting up shell smash and substitute the baton passing into a fast sweeper, and always run a focus sash to take a couple of hits. It's quite overlooked as a strat in the doubles meta, but it can prove very effective and can normally lead to 4-0 sweeps.
Ah, that's cool. I'm always up for a good Smeargle strategy.

That said, I tried running Baton Pass a while back and found it unremarkable. That strategy sounds awesome when it works well, but you're relying on that three-turns-of-sleep roll on both their Pokemon. First you need a reliable way to fire Dark Void off in the first place, then you have to rely on it hitting both Pokemon, then they need to stay asleep for both Shell Smash and Substitute. By the Baton Pass turn, they'll be awake and you're bringing in a Pokemon with the defense drops that could be prone to double targeting.

That said, I'm sure it works a decent amount of the time. What's your win-loss ratio with it?

I'm currently running a Dark Void Smeargle team that's 16-4 on ranked Wi-Fi, in the 1400s on Showdown's VGC ladder and the mid-1300s on Showdown's Battle Spot ladder. It ... really shouldn't work, but the numbers are there I guess. Will post details probably after the doubles tournament here.
 
Last edited:
Ah, that's cool. I'm always up for a good Smeargle strategy.

That said, I tried running Baton Pass a while back and found it unremarkable. That strategy sounds awesome when it works well, but you're relying on that three-turns-of-sleep roll on both their Pokemon. First you need a reliable way to fire Dark Void off in the first place, then you have to rely on it hitting both Pokemon, then they need to stay asleep for both Shell Smash and Substitute. By the Baton Pass turn, they'll be awake and you're bringing in a Pokemon with the defense drops that could be prone to double targeting.

That said, I'm sure it works a decent amount of the time. What's your win-loss ratio with it?

I'm currently running a Dark Void Smeargle team that's 16-4 on ranked Wi-Fi, in the 1400s on Showdown's VGC ladder and the mid-1300s on Showdown's Battle Spot ladder. It ... really shouldn't work, but the numbers are there I guess. Will post details probably after the doubles tournament here.
Good smeargle strategy?Role play into your own no guard machamp,then OHKO your opponents forever.
Or frost breath into an Anger point pokemon.

(Saw these strategies on verlisify's channel)
 
So
Good smeargle strategy?Role play into your own no guard machamp,then OHKO your opponents forever.
Or frost breath into an Anger point pokemon.

(Saw these strategies on verlisify's channel)
These gimmicks are easily shut down by something like taking out the smeargle or machamp. or even taunt.
 
Good smeargle strategy?Role play into your own no guard machamp,then OHKO your opponents forever.
Or frost breath into an Anger point pokemon.

(Saw these strategies on verlisify's channel)
As with many ideas that come out of that channel, they sound cool but there's almost no chance in hell of them making it through the first turn unscathed.

That Smeargle one in particular is going to be wrecked by turn two, before Smeargle even has a chance to attack. Machamp's no speedster either. You're looking at an easy 4-2 right off the bat.
 
So


These gimmicks are easily shut down by something like taking out the smeargle or machamp. or even taunt.
As with many ideas that come out of that channel, they sound cool but there's almost no chance in hell of them making it through the first turn unscathed.

That Smeargle one in particular is going to be wrecked by turn two, before Smeargle even has a chance to attack. Machamp's no speedster either. You're looking at an easy 4-2 right off the bat.
Yeah, I know, but the most efficient ways to run smeargle are suicide hazards/baton pass ...
But those ones are kinda funny too =P
 
Sorry, I started by playing 6 v 6, so I dont know much about VGC yet =P
I have a trick room teeam that works pretty decently on vgc doubles
 
Sorry, I started by playing 6 v 6, so I dont know much about VGC yet =P
I have a trick room teeam that works pretty decently on vgc doubles
One thing you need to know about 4v4 Battle Spot is that every pokemon that isn't a box cover legend or event legend isn't banned, where as VGC is Kalos Dex and Born only
 
One thing a lot of people don't know how to build is a successful trick room team. I'm going to show you can build a decent trick room team. Without further ado, let's go!

Trick room has 4 main parts. Trick Room Setter(s), Support, Physical Attacker(s), and Special Attacker(s). We're going to start with the Trick Room setter.

Common Setters:


The trick room setter is what makes your team functional. If you can't get it up, you're stuck with 4 slow Pokemon V 4 other probably faster Pokemon. You should probably build team with 2 setters, but 1 setter trick room teams exist. (Hell, I only use a 1 setter team) You should also calc your spreads to survive common attacks they'd be hit with. Lastly, these Pokemon are messed up when hit with a taunt, so make use of something like Mental Herb

Common Support:


These are the Pokemon that give the trick room setter the space to set up Trick Room. Scrafty is a Fake Out user with decent attack, which can come on handy. However, he is out-sped by faster Fake Out users and can only use Fake Out the first turn he's out. Amoonguss is a much weaker Pokemon than Scrafty, but Rage Powder works any time Amoonguss is alive on the field. He also has the ability to put threats to sleep with Spore. Togekiss is a combination of the other two, having Follow Me and good special attack. However, Togekiss has base 80 speed, and is out-sped by Tyranitar in Trick Room, which can be a problem. Keep in mind these aren't the only Pokemon you can use for support, just some of the more popular ones.

Common Attackers:


This is the part that truly make Trick Room teams deadly. Once trick room is up, Bulky, Slow, Powerful attackers become Bulky, Strong, and FAST. With this, all you need to do is play smart and make the best of your 5 turns in trick room. Keep in mind, if your attackers go down, so do your chances of winning. When I battle, I usually bring 1 setter, 1 support, and 2 attackers. The usual team builds are 2/1/3 setter / support / attacker or 1/1/4 setter support attacker.
 
One thing a lot of people don't know how to build is a successful trick room team. I'm going to show you can build a decent trick room team. Without further ado, let's go!

Trick room has 4 main parts. Trick Room Setter(s), Support, Physical Attacker(s), and Special Attacker(s). We're going to start with the Trick Room setter.

Common Setters:


The trick room setter is what makes your team functional. If you can't get it up, you're stuck with 4 slow Pokemon V 4 other probably faster Pokemon. You should probably build team with 2 setters, but 1 setter trick room teams exist. (Hell, I only use a 1 setter team) You should also calc your spreads to survive common attacks they'd be hit with. Lastly, these Pokemon are messed up when hit with a taunt, so make use of something like Mental Herb

Common Support:


These are the Pokemon that give the trick room setter the space to set up Trick Room. Scrafty is a Fake Out user with decent attack, which can come on handy. However, he is out-sped by faster Fake Out users and can only use Fake Out the first turn he's out. Amoonguss is a much weaker Pokemon than Scrafty, but Rage Powder works any time Amoonguss is alive on the field. He also has the ability to put threats to sleep with Spore. Togekiss is a combination of the other two, having Follow Me and good special attack. However, Togekiss has base 80 speed, and is out-sped by Tyranitar in Trick Room, which can be a problem. Keep in mind these aren't the only Pokemon you can use for support, just some of the more popular ones.

Common Attackers:


This is the part that truly make Trick Room teams deadly. Once trick room is up, Bulky, Slow, Powerful attackers become Bulky, Strong, and FAST. With this, all you need to do is play smart and make the best of your 5 turns in trick room. Keep in mind, if your attackers go down, so do your chances of winning. When I battle, I usually bring 1 setter, 1 support, and 2 attackers. The usual team builds are 2/1/3 setter / support / attacker or 1/1/4 setter support attacker.
Aromatisse is a pretty good setter, with aroma veil, and Hariyama can also give Fake out support, and hes a pretty good TR attacker too, with Guts.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top