ORAS Doubles OU A Mega Metagross RMT - my first try at Doubles OU teambuilding

[Draconid997]

I have never laddered before on Doubles OU, so this team is heavily based on previous VGC knowledge/EV spread alterations along with inspiration from other player's teams to cope with the metagame shift. The team was created as my spin on the mega metagross 'formula' from the incredibly useful doubles ou teambuilding frameworks page for Doubles OU (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-teambuilding-frameworks.3544037/). This framework consists of:

- Mega Metagross
- Landorus-t (bulky pivot)
- Offensive Water Type (checks a range of threats)
- Speed Control + Earthquake Immunity
- Bulky Support + TR check
- Catch All/Filler

After careful consideration, i picked these 6 pokemon:

At a glance

In Depth:

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 16 HP / 204 Atk / 32 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Substitute
- Protect

The whole reason i built the team. I nabbed substitute mega metagross from VGC 2015, as it is one of my favourite sets, as the move allows metagross to avoid sucker punches and status, two of metagross' biggest counters. In my opinion shiny mega metagross is one of the coolest looking megas alongside shiny mega charizard y, and it has the stats to match. A Whopping 145 base attack stat alongside a fantastic speed of 110 gives it an offensive advantage over a lot of the metagame, and with a very respectable 80/150/110 in defenses, it provides it with a tonne of switching opportunities. The EV spread allows mega metagross to survive two sucker punches from 252 Atk adamant kangaskhan after setting up a substitute, and it survives a sucker punch from max attack adamant bisharp. The odd HP stat at level 100 allows it to make 4 substitutes from full health, and maximum speed investment allows it to outpace terrakion and keldeo to OHKO both of them with iron head and zen headbutt respectively. The rest goes into attack, allowing it to deliver a pretty heavy blow to most opposing pokemon.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 12 HP / 232 Atk / 80 Def / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off
- U-turn

This is an adapted spread from vgc. it allows landorus-t to survive a sucker punch from +1 life orb adamant bisharp whilst maintaining as much power and speed as possible. Landorus provides my first ground immunity, supporting metagross, and its STABs help deal with the fire types metagross hates. It is a great bulky pivot with the intimidate ability, and u-turn allows it to shuffle its intimidate ability to great effect. It is also one of my kangaskhan switch-ins, although superpower often fails to pick up the OHKO. Rock slide alongside thunder wave and iron head puts RNG in my favour in otherwise unwinnable situations, and timely flinches give metagross free turns to help him survive under his sub.

Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind / Taunt / Quick Guard
- Protect

Keldeo is my answer to the common kangaskhan/heatran/landorus core, with water/fighting STABs OHKOing all three. Keldeo also provides a useful dark type switch in for metagross. There's not much to say about the EV spread here, it just maximises Keldeo's offensive potential and life orb even more so. Icy wind gives the team another means of speed control, quick guard helps the team out against prankster, taunt allows Keldeo to stop trick room going up, and protect is an obvious choice for a frail attacker, as well as giving it the ability of stalling out trick room turns.

Thundurus (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 244 HP / 108 Def / 64 SpA / 72 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Swagger

Thundurus forms the infamous 'Double-Genie' combo with Landorus-t, whilst giving the team a reliable means of speed control in thunder wave, prankster taunt, and complimentary pseudo-boltbeam coverage for metagross, hitting the bulky waters and ground types metagross hates for super-effective damage. The EV spread is nothing special, the HP maximizes sitrus berry recovery, the bulk allows it to survive a rock slide from mega tyranitar, as well as a draco meteor from life orb latios. The speed investment allows it to outpace max speed breloom and other base 70s. The rest of the EVs are dumped into special attack. Thundurus also provides another ground immunity, supporting metagross.

Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Atk / 84 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Ferrothorn checks a number of threats to this team, namely, rotom-wash and all the other bulky waters, rain, kangaskhan-mega, fairies and trick room. Lum Berry allows me to win against rotom-wash/jellicent etc more consistently, as it cures the burn inflicted by will-o-wisp so that ferrothorn doesn't become deadweight. Ferrothorn is also a nice check to the otherwise deadly azumarill/amoonguss combo. The EV spread allows it to OHKO 252/0 rotom-wash with power whip, the brave nature with 0 speed IVs allows it to maximise gyro ball output, and the majority of the EVs are invested into HP.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
/// EVs: 176 HP / 152 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Protect

The Hydreigon/Mega Metagross core is well known across vgc for being one of the best type/switching synergy based cores around. Every one of metagross/hydreigon's weaknesses is resisted by the other (bar bug/fighting), and both have complimentary coverage for each other, whilst forming a partial fantasy core. Hydreigon hits many common threats for big damage, including but not limited to: Cresselia, Aegislash, Ferrothorn, common TR setters, amoonguss, (non bulky) Charizard... The list goes on. The first EV spread maximises hydreigon's offensive presence, the second is a more bulky spread for better switching synergy, a modest nature maximises damage output and a timid nature allows it to win Hydreigon mirrors. Hydreigon is my final ground immunity for metagross, also allowing landorus-t to earthquake more freely.

I welcome any sort of constructive criticism, please correct any flaws in my team as i feel i may have made some mistakes along the way. Thanks a bunch for taking the time to read this, i really appreciate it :]

​

 

[deoxys speed]

Cool/standard looking team. Your Landorus doesn't outspeed M-Gengar which is a little unsettling so I would change that to hit 264 speed, just take 20 evs out of attack and the 4 you had in special defense so that you can still take a sucker punch from Bisharp. And if you get knocked off by something weak like Scrafty you can still out speed Breloom and possibly speed tie with things that ev to out speed Breloom. You should really consider using hydro over scald on Keldeo. Sure burns and accuracy are nice but hydro can turn 3hkos into 2hkos (most notably Aegislash). Lastly I would change Hydreigon to life orb and drop earth power for protect. Having 3 mons without protect(and 2 choice locked) is not something I would recommend and can lead to some tough situations. Changing to life orb is also nice for always having a decent chance at winning the speed tie and beating other Hydreigon which is a fairly common mon. Also you could change superpower to knock off on Landorus because you already have 2 really solid Kangaskhan counters and having something that out speeds and kos Latios would be appreciated on your team.

232+ Atk Landorus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 300-354 (100.3 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 164-192 (50.6 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 121-142 (37.3 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Landorus Spread :p

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 12 HP / 232 Atk / 80 Def / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Knock Off/Superpower

 

[Draconid997]

Cool/standard looking team. Your Landorus doesn't outspeed M-Gengar which is a little unsettling so I would change that to hit 264 speed, just take 20 evs out of attack and the 4 you had in special defense so that you can still take a sucker punch from Bisharp. And if you get knocked off by something weak like Scrafty you can still out speed Breloom and possibly speed tie with things that ev to out speed Breloom. You should really consider using hydro over scald on Keldeo. Sure burns and accuracy are nice but hydro can turn 3hkos into 2hkos (most notably Aegislash). Lastly I would change Hydreigon to life orb and drop earth power for protect. Having 3 mons without protect(and 2 choice locked) is not something I would recommend and can lead to some tough situations. Changing to life orb is also nice for always having a decent chance at winning the speed tie and beating other Hydreigon which is a fairly common mon. Also you could change superpower to knock off on Landorus because you already have 2 really solid Kangaskhan counters and having something that out speeds and kos Latios would be appreciated on your team.

232+ Atk Landorus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 300-354 (100.3 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 164-192 (50.6 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 121-142 (37.3 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Landorus Spread :p

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 12 HP / 232 Atk / 80 Def / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Knock Off/Superpower

Thanks a lot for the reply :) i thought i missed out an outspeed on mega gengar thanks for clearing that up :) ill definitely try hydro pump, knock off and life orb hydreigon, your reasons are very clear, excellent rate.

Edit: i have added in the suggested spreads :) thanks again

 

[Yellow Paint]

You rely fairly heavily on hydrei for switching into/beating threats. I think a bulkier, slower spread would help preserve hydrei, especially given the speedy keld/lando/gross. Granted, this spread runs a fair bit of creep to mostly ensure outspeeding things like kyube, zard y, and other hydrei.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 176 HP / 152 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Protect

 

[Draconid997]

You rely fairly heavily on hydrei for switching into/beating threats. I think a bulkier, slower spread would help preserve hydrei, especially given the speedy keld/lando/gross. Granted, this spread runs a fair bit of creep to mostly ensure outspeeding things like kyube, zard y, and other hydrei.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 176 HP / 152 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Protect

I have tried bulky hydreigon spreads in the past and i really like them, so ill definitely give that one a go :)
When you say it runs a bit of speed to speed creep hydreigon etc, what speed do most hydreigon/zard y run in doubles OU? Would the nature be timid instead? Also are there any damage calcs for that spread? Thanks for the help :)

 

[shaian]

Hydreigon typically hits about 4 different Speed tiers:

- 263 Spe (124 Spe EVs / Modest nature)
This is where bulky Hydreigon sets typically hit, occasionally going a few points above to creep certain things, such as bulky Charizards, Kangaskhans, and faster Kyurem-B sets

- 282 Spe (200 Spe EVs / Modest nature)
This is for outrunning max Spe Adamant Landorus-T, typically when using this spread you'll have an Icy Wind user to negate the speed advantage that a Scarf Landorus-T has, or some other way of reducing the opponents speed stat.

- 295 Spe (252 Spe EVs / Modest nature)
Clean and simple, this is where most Hydreigon are found, outrunning as many things as possible and hitting as hard as possible

- 324 Spe (252 Spe EVs / Timid nature)
Because you want to outrun Modest Hydreigon, and neutral max Spe 100 Spe Pokemon such as Charizard and Kangaskhan

Anyway, I personally don't think you should opt for a bulkier Hydreigon set as on a surface glance, the team looks like it benefits from being able to sustain a fast, fluid offense, making Ferrothorn look kind of out of place but I like how it gives you a nice defensive anchor and a secondary Steel-typing to help out versus Fairy-types which the majority of your team struggles against. Anyway, the reason I think you should stick with a faster Hydreigon is because by being able to outrun and pressure threats, it gives Metagross more space to mega evolve, as base Metagross has poor speed. It also does not require the significant bulk investment as a large portion of the things which it blanket checks can be reasonably handled by the rest of the team.

With Cresselia, your Metagross can just Subtitute on it and Cresselia can't touch it there, letting you wear it down, as well, Ferrothorn can Leech Seed it and wear it down whilst Cresslia can't do anything. With Aegislash, Landorus-T and Keldeo win this almost every time and regardless of bulk, Hydreigon can easily switch in on the Shadow Ball, and trust me, there is no reason for Aegislash to ever use Flash Cannon against your team as Shadow Ball hits everything harder besides Hydreigon and Landorus-T though Flash Cannon and Shadow Ball do the same to it, so again, no reason for you to expect anything but Shadow Ball. Ferrothorn is a tricky matchup, but not enough to reduce Hydreigons offensive output, not to mention it has almost no reason to not just Leech Seed against the majority of your team, bar Hydreigon and Keldeo. For common TR setters you have 2 instances of Taunt on your team, and most Trick Room setters don't really phaze Hydreigon to begin with. As for Amoongus, you already have Substitute Metagross and Taunt to stop any sort of shenanigans it might try and pull. I will admit that Charizard is a bit of an issue as you have no real switch-ins, but bulky, non-Roost Hydreigon suffers the same issues against Charizard as a bulky one does, but at least with a Timid nature you can outrun and KO most of them before taking huge amounts of damage. I mean, if you're really worried about most of those things, you could probably run Swagger instead of Hidden Power Ice on Thundurus (incidentally, Hidden Power Ice is a move I've never liked on bulky Thundurus anyway) and either force them to play coin-flips or switch out.

 

[Draconid997]

Hydreigon typically hits about 4 different Speed tiers:

- 263 Spe (124 Spe EVs / Modest nature)
This is where bulky Hydreigon sets typically hit, occasionally going a few points above to creep certain things, such as bulky Charizards, Kangaskhans, and faster Kyurem-B sets

- 282 Spe (200 Spe EVs / Modest nature)
This is for outrunning max Spe Adamant Landorus-T, typically when using this spread you'll have an Icy Wind user to negate the speed advantage that a Scarf Landorus-T has, or some other way of reducing the opponents speed stat.

- 295 Spe (252 Spe EVs / Modest nature)
Clean and simple, this is where most Hydreigon are found, outrunning as many things as possible and hitting as hard as possible

- 324 Spe (252 Spe EVs / Timid nature)
Because you want to outrun Modest Hydreigon, and neutral max Spe 100 Spe Pokemon such as Charizard and Kangaskhan

Anyway, I personally don't think you should opt for a bulkier Hydreigon set as on a surface glance, the team looks like it benefits from being able to sustain a fast, fluid offense, making Ferrothorn look kind of out of place but I like how it gives you a nice defensive anchor and a secondary Steel-typing to help out versus Fairy-types which the majority of your team struggles against. Anyway, the reason I think you should stick with a faster Hydreigon is because by being able to outrun and pressure threats, it gives Metagross more space to mega evolve, as base Metagross has poor speed. It also does not require the significant bulk investment as a large portion of the things which it blanket checks can be reasonably handled by the rest of the team.

With Cresselia, your Metagross can just Subtitute on it and Cresselia can't touch it there, letting you wear it down, as well, Ferrothorn can Leech Seed it and wear it down whilst Cresslia can't do anything. With Aegislash, Landorus-T and Keldeo win this almost every time and regardless of bulk, Hydreigon can easily switch in on the Shadow Ball, and trust me, there is no reason for Aegislash to ever use Flash Cannon against your team as Shadow Ball hits everything harder besides Hydreigon and Landorus-T though Flash Cannon and Shadow Ball do the same to it, so again, no reason for you to expect anything but Shadow Ball. Ferrothorn is a tricky matchup, but not enough to reduce Hydreigons offensive output, not to mention it has almost no reason to not just Leech Seed against the majority of your team, bar Hydreigon and Keldeo. For common TR setters you have 2 instances of Taunt on your team, and most Trick Room setters don't really phaze Hydreigon to begin with. As for Amoongus, you already have Substitute Metagross and Taunt to stop any sort of shenanigans it might try and pull. I will admit that Charizard is a bit of an issue as you have no real switch-ins, but bulky, non-Roost Hydreigon suffers the same issues against Charizard as a bulky one does, but at least with a Timid nature you can outrun and KO most of them before taking huge amounts of damage. I mean, if you're really worried about most of those things, you could probably run Swagger instead of Hidden Power Ice on Thundurus (incidentally, Hidden Power Ice is a move I've never liked on bulky Thundurus anyway) and either force them to play coin-flips or switch out.

Amazing rate, it's really helpful thanks a lot :]
i'll try out both fast offensive/bulky variants of hydreigon, i agree that the team wouldn't appreciate a drop in speed. I originally had kyurem-b in this spot but changed it to hydreigon to cover the before mentioned threats, especially ferrothorn.
Are there any other changes to deal with ferrothorn better that you recommend i make? Also, is there a better move choice than taunt on keldeo, since trick room is covered already? Quick guard and icy wind come to mind, would you say the team benefits from another form of speed control? Tailwind on hydreigon would just negate its match up vs ferrothorn.
I'll definitely try out swagger on bulky thundurus, it puts RNG in my favour although i did like the advantage over landorus-t that HP ice gave me.