ORAS Ubers Arceus-Ice + Mega Salamence bulky offense.

[Vengeance417]

Team Preview:

Description:

Salutations! This will be my final 6th gen RMT until S&M comes out and I wanted to use a core of Pokemon that I feel is underrated and fun to use: Iceceus and Mega Salamence. These two compliment each other very well. Iceceus naturally outpaces standard opposing Mega Salamence, Rayquaza and the Latis while it, with its very nice Ice STAB, hits bulkier mons like Lugia, opposing Giratina-O, Yveltal and Groundceus very hard. All of these mons give Mega Salamence trouble in some way, shape or form. Meanwhile, my physically bulky Mega Mence checks Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh and Mega Kangaskhan, three mons that trouble Iceceus.

Team Building Process

This is the starting core that I wanted to build a team around. As said earlier, these two work together really well, dealing with each other's checks to help either one sweep.

Both of these Pokemon are Stealth Rock weak and having a phaser is also nice for mons like Ekiller and SD Groudon. Giratina-O comes in to Defog hazards away while also giving me a priority user to revenge mons like the Mewtwos, Deo-A, Latis, ect. Having an immunity to Toxic Spikes to Defog safely and an immunity to Extreme Speed and the Fighting type coverage moves that scare Iceceus is nice, too.

Obviously, Xerneas and Mega Diancie are huge problems to the first three mons, so I needed checks to those as well as some hazards. Klefki is my 1st responder to GeoXern as well as many other special attackers such as Deoxys-A, the Mewtwos, Darkrai if I already have a sleep fodder, ect. Meanwhile, with any serious Ubers team, I needed Primal Groudon as a secondary answer to Xerneas and a check to Primal Kyogre and opposing Klefki.

Lastly, I had to fix a few problems that my current 5 mons would be dealing with. Firstly, my team's a bit slow despite Iceceus being positive max speed and Shadow Sneak on Gira-O. Also, Mega Salamence is EV'd to outpace base 100s post-mega without any boosts. Second, Darkrai was tricky to handle even with Klefki, because while it's a resist, Darkrai then takes advantage of Dark Void and can switch out to an appropriate response, and I'd rather not lose momentum. Third, with Klefki down, mons like LO Deo-A as well as Darkrai ravage this team. To solve all of these issues, I decided on Scarf Sleep Talk Xerneas as my cleaner, which is capable of revenging all of these and giving my team some much needed natural speed.

Bulky steels such as Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor started to become an issue for the team due to me not running any Fire coverage on Groudon, but I still needed a sleep absorber for Darkrai. I decided that, thanks to Californium's rate, I needed to swap Xerneas out for Ho-Oh to not only have a sleep absorber but a way to melt bulky Steels.

The Team:

Arceus-Ice @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Judgment
- Thunder

The star of the show. I feel Iceceus is truly an underrated threat. Icicle Plate-boosted Ice STAB is surprisingly strong in Ubers despite the prominent Steel types that reside in the metagame. It super effectively hits Lugia, most of the Dragons, Groundceus, Yveltal and hits weakened Primal Groudons for good damage. Iceceus, when paired with Primal Groudon, also serves as a nice resisted switchin to Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam, where I just start setting up Calm Minds in front of its face.

Judgment is for the powerful Ice STAB, Thunder is for the BoltBeam coverage that hits Waterceus, Primal Kyogre and Ho-Oh for super effective damage. Recover is for reliable recovery (obv) and Calm Mind is Calm Mind.

Max Speed EVs allow me to tie with max speed Mega Salamence and opposing Arceus formes, 144 SpA ensures I OHKO standard Ho-Oh with +1 Thunder after Stealth Rock and the rest goes to HP for some clutch bulk.

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 216 HP / 156 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Facade

The second part of the core is my Mega Salamence. Mons that my Iceceus is scared of, such as Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon, are handled by this monster of a Mega Evolution, which I feel is the best one in the tier next to Mega Gengar. Intimidate support pre-mega is phenomenal for dealing with the aforementioned Fire types as well as Ekiller Arceus.

Dragon Dance and Roost are here for set-up and recovery, respectively. Double-Edge is the offensive move I use when I'm not burned, while I switch over to Facade to still put offensive pressure on the opponent and not lose momentum for myself when I am burned.

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 244 Atk / 252 Def / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Dragon Tail
- Shadow Sneak
- Earthquake

My first two mons are Stealth Rock-weak and needs those removed, so I needed a Defogger, but I used up my Arceus forme already, so I decided on Giratina-O. It's immune to the many Fighting type coverage moves seen in Ubers that give Iceceus trouble and is a check to the Mewtwos and Gengar after a small amount of prior damage. Having a defogger be immune to Toxic Spikes is also really nice, and Gira-O handles suicude leads like the Deoxys formes really well.

Defog removes hazards, Dragon Tail phases set-up sweepers, Shadow Sneak is a strong priority move and Earthquake hits mons like Primal Groudon and Mega Diancie. I'm actually considering to swap Earthquake out for Shadow Force to give Gira-O a strong hit and maximize offensive presence, but I'm concerned about giving Ekiller a free switchin. I'm also considering Will-o-Wisp to burn the likes of Ekiller and Mega Lucario, but don't know what move to replace it with.

EVs are a small edit to its standard set. 252 Def, where it was 248 before, guarantees that I survive a +2 Iron Tail from Mega Lucario at full health. I still have enough speed to outpace Diancie pre-mega, and Sand Rush Excadrill still dies to EQ after Life Orb recoil.

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave
- Flash Cannon

As you can probably tell, Mega Diancie as well as Xerneas give the first three mons considerable amounts of trouble, so I needed two mons that could handle them, one of them being Klefki. Everyone here knows what Klefki does and its role doesn't change in this team; paralyze Xerneas and other fast sweepers and Toxic Primal Groudon and other bulky walls like Lugia, which this mon completely counters.

Flash Cannon OHKOs Mega Diancie, and spikes give me a second form of hazards that put pressure on Stealth Rock resists. Max SpDef enables me to take on Xerneas and Mega Diancie.

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 152 HP / 128 Atk / 72 Def / 44 SpD / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge

As expected, a Primal Groudon resides on this team. This is my secondary Xerneas check as well as my answer to Primal Kyogre and opposing Klefki. Since I have SpDef Klefki already, I opted for an SD Rocks set for my Pdon to have something hit harder for the team, breaking down walls for Iceceus, Mega Mence and Scarf Xerneas. There's not really much else to say about The King of ORAS Ubers, so I might as well explain the set. I opted for Stone Edge over a Fire move to have a backup answer to Ho-Oh if Mence is down as well as a way to hi the Latis, Lugia and Gira-O for better damage, especially after a boost.

152 HP and 44 SpDef avoids the OHKO from +2 Xerneas's Focus Blast, the 72 Def avoids the OHKO from Jolly Pdon's Precipice Blades while the 128 Attack from an Adamant nature OHKOs no-bulk Pdon and 112 speed outpaces Jolly Tyranitar before it megas or if it's Banded.

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 228 Atk / 40 Def / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Lastly, I needed an answer to Darkrai as well as a way to dent Steels. I originally had a Scarf Xerneas here, but my Ferrothorn and Scizor matchup was pretty poor, so Life Orb Sleep Talk Ho-Oh is here as a replacement.

An offensive set is chosen thanks to me already having a SpDef Klefki and Primal Groudon on the team, so there's no need to run too much bulk on this Ho-Oh. 240 speed outpaces Jolly Excadrill outside of Sand while 40 Def allows me to live any hit from +2 Mega Lucario other than Stone Edge. Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are standard STABs while EQ hits Diancie and Pdon for super effective damage.

Threatlist:

Can be annoying to take down if Primal Groudon or Ho-Oh is dead. Iceceus can chunk it, too, but has a tough time with Gyro Ball.

Ghostceus, whether it's SD or CM, is a tough mon to fight. I don't have a good Shadow Force or Ghost-type Judgment switchin, so my best bet is bringing it down to enough HP to where Giratina-O revenges it with Shadow Sneak.

Sand Rush Excadrill in particular can be a nuisance to this team. My best bet is preserving my Groudon to remove the sand and kill T-Tar and luckily Ho-Oh outspeeds it and OHKOs with Sacred Fire.

It's not a common mon, by any means, but it's scary as hell, especially Ice Punch variants. I'm sort of at a loss with this thing.

My Scarfer (Xerneas) can't OHKO this thing, but it can at least 2HKO no-bulk variants after Rocks. My best way of handling it is keeping Giratina-O healthy to revenge with Shadow Sneak.

Importable

Arceus-Ice @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Judgment
- Thunder

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 216 HP / Atk Def / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Facade

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 244 Atk / 252 Def / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Dragon Tail
- Shadow Sneak
- Earthquake

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magnet Rise
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave
- Flash Cannon

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 152 HP / 128 Atk / 72 Def / 44 SpD / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 228 Atk / 40 Def / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

 

[Cynara]

Gonna give this team a rate, for an Ice Arceus team it isn't too bad.

My main concern about this team is the sub-optimal Klefki set that forgoes Spikes utility which can apply more pressure to the opponent and Magnet Rise isn't a good option on Klefki at all (still beaten by Fire Move Primal Groudon etc). This team absolutely needs Spikes on Klefki since you need to force opposing teams in a pressured position and force a defog since the hazards game is quite troublesome for your team to control. So my suggestion would be to replace Magnet Rise with Spikes.

Semi-Common Niche steels like Ferrothorn (mentioned in your threatlist) give your team a rough time, However steels like Bronzong seem a bit more troublesome with nothing to effectively deal with steels on the team and I don't think Xerneas is the best application of a sleep absorber on this kind of build. Bulkier builds and stall matchups look like they could be somewhat rough for the team, even though you've gone with a Swords Dance Groudon variant to justify this. Geomancy Xerneas such as variants Rest Geomancy could potentially give this team a rough time and possibly pull a sweep due to the offensive Primal Groudon Selection. My Main suggestion would be to change Scarf Xerneas for a Life Orb Ho-oh with sleep talk. Ho-oh would still allow you to fulfill the sleep absorber role of Xerneas while providing a more solid matchup to stall and Balance teams and most importantly allowing your team to effectively deal with Steel-Types and giving you a somewhat acceptable way of making the Mega Gengar threat easier to deal with. While increasing the overall offensive prowess of the team and introducing an additional Geomancy Xerneas check, especially since you rely on Flash Cannon to circumvent Mega Diancie.

While the Mega Salamence set looks interesting, it seems more like a gimmick than anything and requires way too much Setup that is actually feasible, the standard dragon dance set (provided below) would be much more effective to your team while still effectively dealing with Ho-oh and has a lot more initial breaking potential.

That's all main changes I would make to the team without completely restructuring the team and keeping your playstyle, Ice Arceus is a difficult Pokemon to build around with and these help reduce the majority of flaws the current team composition had, as any Ice Arceus team will still have some identifiable weaknesses regardless of how you restructure it.

An Interesting further change you could consider is Mega Gyarados over Mega Salamence though this destroys your initial team concept of Ice Arceus + Mega Salamence, though it helps patch up your significant weakness to Ghost Arceus, though it increases your weakness to Ho-oh so Giratina could Forgo a coverage move for Stone Edge to somewhat remedy it and brings an additional interesting wallbreaker to the table and access to Mold Breaker + Taunt to destroy stall matchups.

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Summary

• Change Magnet Rise to Spikes on Klefki
• Change Scarf Xerneas to a Offensive Ho-oh set
• Consider a offensive Dragon Dance Mega Salamence set over the current set
• An alternative build with Gyarados in the mega slot is possible

Ho-oh set and Mega Salamence set

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 216 HP / 156 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Facade
- Roost

Good luck with your team.

 

[Vengeance417]

Gonna give this team a rate, for an Ice Arceus team it isn't too bad.

My main concern about this team is the sub-optimal Klefki set that forgoes Spikes utility which can apply more pressure to the opponent and Magnet Rise isn't a good option on Klefki at all (still beaten by Fire Move Primal Groudon etc). This team absolutely needs Spikes on Klefki since you need to force opposing teams in a pressured position and force a defog since the hazards game is quite troublesome for your team to control. So my suggestion would be to replace Magnet Rise with Spikes.

Semi-Common Niche steels like Ferrothorn (mentioned in your threatlist) give your team a rough time, However steels like Bronzong seem a bit more troublesome with nothing to effectively deal with steels on the team and I don't think Xerneas is the best application of a sleep absorber on this kind of build. Bulkier builds and stall matchups look like they could be somewhat rough for the team, even though you've gone with a Swords Dance Groudon variant to justify this. Geomancy Xerneas such as variants Rest Geomancy could potentially give this team a rough time and possibly pull a sweep due to the offensive Primal Groudon Selection. My Main suggestion would be to change Scarf Xerneas for a Life Orb Ho-oh with sleep talk. Ho-oh would still allow you to fulfill the sleep absorber role of Xerneas while providing a more solid matchup to stall and Balance teams and most importantly allowing your team to effectively deal with Steel-Types and giving you a somewhat acceptable way of making the Mega Gengar threat easier to deal with. While increasing the overall offensive prowess of the team and introducing an additional Geomancy Xerneas check, especially since you rely on Flash Cannon to circumvent Mega Diancie.

While the Mega Salamence set looks interesting, it seems more like a gimmick than anything and requires way too much Setup that is actually feasible, the standard dragon dance set (provided below) would be much more effective to your team while still effectively dealing with Ho-oh and has a lot more initial breaking potential.

That's all main changes I would make to the team without completely restructuring the team and keeping your playstyle, Ice Arceus is a difficult Pokemon to build around with and these help reduce the majority of flaws the current team composition had, as any Ice Arceus team will still have some identifiable weaknesses regardless of how you restructure it.

An Interesting further change you could consider is Mega Gyarados over Mega Salamence though this destroys your initial team concept of Ice Arceus + Mega Salamence, though it helps patch up your significant weakness to Ghost Arceus, though it increases your weakness to Ho-oh so Giratina could Forgo a coverage move for Stone Edge to somewhat remedy it and brings an additional interesting wallbreaker to the table and access to Mold Breaker + Taunt to destroy stall matchups.

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Summary

• Change Magnet Rise to Spikes on Klefki
• Change Scarf Xerneas to a Offensive Ho-oh set
• Consider a offensive Dragon Dance Mega Salamence set over the current set
• An alternative build with Gyarados in the mega slot is possible

Ho-oh set and Mega Salamence set

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 216 HP / 156 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Facade
- Roost

Good luck with your team.

Hi, thanks for the rate! I agree with your Klefki, Salamence and Ho-Oh suggestions, so I went ahead and changed them. However, is there a reason to run max speed Ho-Oh? I guess to tie with neutral 90s, but I like its bulkier set to handle Xern despite me having Klefki. In a situation where it's down, I like to have a secondary safe answer to it, whereas my Pdon can't take it on very well if Xerneas is still healthy.

I'm currently trying Gyarados out while having a second copy of the team with your Mence set, and I'm actually quite liking Gyara despite it deviating from the original concept, but that's why I also have the Mence version of the team as well.

 

[Cynara]

Hi, thanks for the rate! I agree with your Klefki, Salamence and Ho-Oh suggestions, so I went ahead and changed them. However, is there a reason to run max speed Ho-Oh? I guess to tie with neutral 90s, but I like its bulkier set to handle Xern despite me having Klefki. In a situation where it's down, I like to have a secondary safe answer to it, whereas my Pdon can't take it on very well if Xerneas is still healthy.

I'm currently trying Gyarados out while having a second copy of the team with your Mence set, and I'm actually quite liking Gyara despite it deviating from the original concept, but that's why I also have the Mence version of the team as well.

Fast Ho-oh is generally better now, Klefki + Ho-oh + Don is acceptable to circumvent all Xerneas variants right now, Bulky Ho-oh still loses to Aroma HP Rock even with Bulk investment so the general aim is to outspeed as many slower threats as possible such as defensive Yveltal, Xerneas before Geomancy, Speed tie with Modest Dialga and outspeed as many Groudon variants as possible etc along with bulk being pretty pointless on Ho-oh aswell right now.

 

[Vengeance417]

Fast Ho-oh is generally better now, Klefki + Ho-oh + Don is acceptable to circumvent all Xerneas variants right now, Bulky Ho-oh still loses to Aroma HP Rock even with Bulk investment so the general aim is to outspeed as many slower threats as possible such as defensive Yveltal, Standard Lugia, Xerneas before Geomancy, Speed tie with Modest Dialga and outspeed as many Groudon variants as possible etc along with bulk being pretty pointless on Ho-oh aswell right now.

Sounds good. I'll roll with that. Thanks again :D

 

[Aberforth]

Is there a Standard Lugia that doesn't speedcreep neutral 90s?

Aside from that nitpick, Cali's recommendations fix most of the problems the team has, although you still have a very tough time with Excadrill if Giratina is weakened and rocks are up. Actually more so now than you did before given that the Mence no longer has Iron Defense, nor does it have EQ to quickly deal with the threat, and what's more excadrill outspeeds anything else aside from Arceus even outside of sand. Gyarados does fix this, but it's also not the most reliable, as it's easier to wear down than Mence is. As a result, I'd recommend changing Ho-oh from Adamant to Jolly, so that you do outspeed max speed Excadrill outside of Sand. The power difference isn't hugely noticeable, and I dont think there are any examples of things that you would 2hko before that you dont 2hko now.

To also potentially help with Lucario, you can run a spread of 228 Atk, 36 Def, 240 speed Jolly, to outspeed Excadrill outside of Sand while also living any hit from a +2 Jolly Lucario from full, as well as any hit from Jolly Lucario after rocks.

 

[Vengeance417]

Alright, I like the sound of Jolly Ho-Oh. I'll try that, thanks :D