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Books: What are they?
- Thread starter Stagnant
- Start date
So I finished "The Night Angel" trilogy, and a few words that spring to mind are underwhelming, anticlimactic, ass pull, talentless hack.
The first in the trilogy was a very interesting read. It had a very atypical protagonist and a dozen atypical supporting characters. About the only character with an analogue in the "average" fantasy book was the token religious zealot, and even he had his character development. It was magic-lite, character driven and I'd call it... not a favourite, but one I'll certainly go back to in the future.
Then we have the second and third novels, which got worse as they progressed. In Two, a minor character turned viewpoint character is reduced to your average kuudere, magic plays a larger role and the interesting character conflicts become a bog-standard war-against-evil-empire in which the protagonist forgets he's an amoral assassin and moves in with his morality pet girlfriend, finds he can't ignore the call to heroism and becomes your typical naive, boring invincible hero (literally. Upon death, he gets better. That's a plot point, and could have been fairly interesting if it wasn't largely treated as a way for the character to survive the various challenges - get killed, have body dumped somewhere, wake up good as new.
In Three, it's taken a step further: the various plot points set up in One and Two (the seeking of various macguffins, various prophecies [sigh] unfolding and various new ones pulled from nowhere. Three is a shitstorm of far too much going on in one book, and the author hasn't the talent or skill to do that well. About a dozen factions all have their plots and intrigue, none of which do anything more than provide a potential threat the protagonists have to take into account. For example, a fairly large chunk of the book is about one of the macguffins I mentioned earlier falling into the hands of a Proud Warrior Race guy and what he does with it. It doesn't further the story at all, and serves only as a vehicle for the author to write prophecy into his story and attempt to look clever by going LOOK LOOK SELF FULFILLING PROPHECY, trying to make it look intelligent in the manner of The Matrix.
In Three especially, shit gets way too reliant on the "a wizard did it" mentality: the protagonists' mentor who succumbed to Mentor Occupational Hazard in book one comes back, despite having given away his source of immortality. The final Big Bad is defeated by a Chekhov's Gun set up about ten pages earlier. It turns out the sword of the protagonist is also an ancient artifact of magic. It combines with the macguffin introduced far sooner to enable a group to bring balance to the Force, or some such shit. By that point I was too relieved by the ending being in sight to pay it much heed.
While book one is great, two and three have very little to offer. In Three, there's some time given to a formerly minor character taking over his father's empire and his slow descent into evil, which was interesting, but beyond that I can't think of a redeeming point. Basically, don't read them.
The first in the trilogy was a very interesting read. It had a very atypical protagonist and a dozen atypical supporting characters. About the only character with an analogue in the "average" fantasy book was the token religious zealot, and even he had his character development. It was magic-lite, character driven and I'd call it... not a favourite, but one I'll certainly go back to in the future.
Then we have the second and third novels, which got worse as they progressed. In Two, a minor character turned viewpoint character is reduced to your average kuudere, magic plays a larger role and the interesting character conflicts become a bog-standard war-against-evil-empire in which the protagonist forgets he's an amoral assassin and moves in with his morality pet girlfriend, finds he can't ignore the call to heroism and becomes your typical naive, boring invincible hero (literally. Upon death, he gets better. That's a plot point, and could have been fairly interesting if it wasn't largely treated as a way for the character to survive the various challenges - get killed, have body dumped somewhere, wake up good as new.
In Three, it's taken a step further: the various plot points set up in One and Two (the seeking of various macguffins, various prophecies [sigh] unfolding and various new ones pulled from nowhere. Three is a shitstorm of far too much going on in one book, and the author hasn't the talent or skill to do that well. About a dozen factions all have their plots and intrigue, none of which do anything more than provide a potential threat the protagonists have to take into account. For example, a fairly large chunk of the book is about one of the macguffins I mentioned earlier falling into the hands of a Proud Warrior Race guy and what he does with it. It doesn't further the story at all, and serves only as a vehicle for the author to write prophecy into his story and attempt to look clever by going LOOK LOOK SELF FULFILLING PROPHECY, trying to make it look intelligent in the manner of The Matrix.
In Three especially, shit gets way too reliant on the "a wizard did it" mentality: the protagonists' mentor who succumbed to Mentor Occupational Hazard in book one comes back, despite having given away his source of immortality. The final Big Bad is defeated by a Chekhov's Gun set up about ten pages earlier. It turns out the sword of the protagonist is also an ancient artifact of magic. It combines with the macguffin introduced far sooner to enable a group to bring balance to the Force, or some such shit. By that point I was too relieved by the ending being in sight to pay it much heed.
While book one is great, two and three have very little to offer. In Three, there's some time given to a formerly minor character taking over his father's empire and his slow descent into evil, which was interesting, but beyond that I can't think of a redeeming point. Basically, don't read them.
I read Sabriel about a year or so ago and it was actually really good. The magic system is quite unique and while it may get confusing sometimes it is still very interesting. The separation of the Old Kingdom into the different "races" was something I also found quite interesting. Instead of the races being based on physical aspects they are more separated by their abilities. I really like how the book addressed the practice of necromancy as well. Instead of being some deep, dark art, it is one of the practices which protects the Old Kingdom. One of the aspects that I thought wasn't touched on enough in Sabriel were the Clayr, so I'm glad that the sequel to Sabriel, Lirael (which I'm currently reading) is focused on them. I've also bought the third book, Abhorsen, and I'm looking forward to reading that soon.
After the Night Angel Trilogy I returned to Brandon Sanderson, whose work I covered a few pages back. It was "Warbreaker", and it has some fairly interesting similarities to the Night Angel trilogy in that a lot goes on at once, but the difference is it's all absolutely necessary to the plot and not a chore to keep track of.
It's the standard fantasy pseudo-medieval-Europe setting, but is distinguished by having a totally new and interesting system of magic (which seems to be Sanderson's signature) which at the same time as being an important part of the world's culture is not much to do with the story. Basically, "Breath" is an ineffable substance similar to a soul, which can be transferred between people. Those with lots of Breath get advantages like heightened senses and several other internal changes which aren't particularly useful as such (such as the ability to perceive different shades of a color which would appear to one without enough Breath as exactly the same) and so only really serve as an interesting aside. The main practical use of Breath is to "Awaken" inanimate objects (up to and including corpses) which can then be commanded (i.e. Awaken a rope, command it "strangle things" and throw it at an enemy).
Despite the magic system getting so much time devoted to it, it really isn't all that important. Only once in the entire novel is magic used to do something that couldn't have been done otherwise, and it's set up almost from the start so it doesn't feel unfair.
The book is about cultures and characters, but the story itself is about two kingdoms which appear to be heading for an inevitable war. A political marriage is attempted, with the king of the weaker country sending his daughter to the stronger country to marry its God King and provide an heir with claim to both thrones.
Now, one of the other "uses" of Breath is that on very rare occasions, someone who died will spontaneously receive an extremely powerful Breath from an unidentified source, and receive the advantages that brings at the cost of forgetting their past lives. In the stronger (and, originally, the perceived Evil Empire) kingdom, those who have "Returned" in this manner are worshipped as gods and who basically rule the country - though their indolent lifestyles pretty much leave power in the hands of their priests. The two main differences, physically, between Returned and humans with lots of Breath is that a Returned requires a Breath to be sacrificed to it once a week to survive, and that one time only a Returned can sacrifice him/herself to effect a "miracle", most often healing something incurable by other means (though naturally these miracles are rare, as they require the death of the "god" who invokes them). This second difference is what I referred to earlier when I mentioned the sole instance of a real instance in which magic is used in the manner other fantasy novels treat it - cheap and easy - though as I said, it's by no means contrived or unfair.
The plot revolves around two gods' attempts to gain control of the kingdom's armies, the relationship between the God King and the daughter sent to marry him, and her sister who secretly undertakes to rescue her but instead gets involved in a conspiracy. That's what I mean when I compare this book to the faults I described in my last post: it's what those novels could have been if done right. There's quite a lot going on, but it all makes sense, none of it is just for the sake of it, and in the end all the seemingly unrelated plot threads come together in a very interesting way.
I definitely recommend this novel. "Warbreaker" by Brandon Sanderson, a stand alone novel and the second story I've read by Sanderson besides his Mistborn trilogy, which I also recommend.
It's the standard fantasy pseudo-medieval-Europe setting, but is distinguished by having a totally new and interesting system of magic (which seems to be Sanderson's signature) which at the same time as being an important part of the world's culture is not much to do with the story. Basically, "Breath" is an ineffable substance similar to a soul, which can be transferred between people. Those with lots of Breath get advantages like heightened senses and several other internal changes which aren't particularly useful as such (such as the ability to perceive different shades of a color which would appear to one without enough Breath as exactly the same) and so only really serve as an interesting aside. The main practical use of Breath is to "Awaken" inanimate objects (up to and including corpses) which can then be commanded (i.e. Awaken a rope, command it "strangle things" and throw it at an enemy).
Despite the magic system getting so much time devoted to it, it really isn't all that important. Only once in the entire novel is magic used to do something that couldn't have been done otherwise, and it's set up almost from the start so it doesn't feel unfair.
The book is about cultures and characters, but the story itself is about two kingdoms which appear to be heading for an inevitable war. A political marriage is attempted, with the king of the weaker country sending his daughter to the stronger country to marry its God King and provide an heir with claim to both thrones.
Now, one of the other "uses" of Breath is that on very rare occasions, someone who died will spontaneously receive an extremely powerful Breath from an unidentified source, and receive the advantages that brings at the cost of forgetting their past lives. In the stronger (and, originally, the perceived Evil Empire) kingdom, those who have "Returned" in this manner are worshipped as gods and who basically rule the country - though their indolent lifestyles pretty much leave power in the hands of their priests. The two main differences, physically, between Returned and humans with lots of Breath is that a Returned requires a Breath to be sacrificed to it once a week to survive, and that one time only a Returned can sacrifice him/herself to effect a "miracle", most often healing something incurable by other means (though naturally these miracles are rare, as they require the death of the "god" who invokes them). This second difference is what I referred to earlier when I mentioned the sole instance of a real instance in which magic is used in the manner other fantasy novels treat it - cheap and easy - though as I said, it's by no means contrived or unfair.
The plot revolves around two gods' attempts to gain control of the kingdom's armies, the relationship between the God King and the daughter sent to marry him, and her sister who secretly undertakes to rescue her but instead gets involved in a conspiracy. That's what I mean when I compare this book to the faults I described in my last post: it's what those novels could have been if done right. There's quite a lot going on, but it all makes sense, none of it is just for the sake of it, and in the end all the seemingly unrelated plot threads come together in a very interesting way.
I definitely recommend this novel. "Warbreaker" by Brandon Sanderson, a stand alone novel and the second story I've read by Sanderson besides his Mistborn trilogy, which I also recommend.
harry potter <3
definatly my favorite series.
i also like the perks of being a wallflower, catcher in the rye, and they cage the animals at night.
definatly my favorite series.
i also like the perks of being a wallflower, catcher in the rye, and they cage the animals at night.
So I started reading House of Leaves over summer vacation a while back.
I couldn't finish it. It was one of the worst books I have ever read. I didn't understand the plot -- was there a plot? I didn't get what makes this book so great. Please explain.
I saw Ayn Rand earlier in the thread. I read Anthem in June. To be honest, it was pretty bad.
What I do plan on doing is re-reading Fahrenheit 451 (for the fourth time) and Catcher in the Rye (for the second). Those were both really good books; I remember laughing really fucking hard at a line in Catcher in the Rye one time. I'm also going to probably pick up Lolita. any other suggestions while im out?
I couldn't finish it. It was one of the worst books I have ever read. I didn't understand the plot -- was there a plot? I didn't get what makes this book so great. Please explain.
I saw Ayn Rand earlier in the thread. I read Anthem in June. To be honest, it was pretty bad.
What I do plan on doing is re-reading Fahrenheit 451 (for the fourth time) and Catcher in the Rye (for the second). Those were both really good books; I remember laughing really fucking hard at a line in Catcher in the Rye one time. I'm also going to probably pick up Lolita. any other suggestions while im out?
Started reading Iain M. Banks' "Surface Detail". Enjoying it so far, but it is quite typical of Banks' style, although the concept is very interesting -> If digital replication of people's mind/soul is far enough advanced that you can start creating virtual reality versions of your religion, specifically a torturous eternity of "Hell"... should you?
I've read enough Banks now that I'm starting to predict the twist ending, and I think I know where this one is going.
I've read enough Banks now that I'm starting to predict the twist ending, and I think I know where this one is going.
There are two plots. The first is the Navidson family, and how the House begins to destroy them as a family. The second is the editor's, and it doesn't become the focus towards the end, where it becomes superb.
The plot is told through a strange medium which can make it difficult to follow, but the first plot is less important than the 'experience' of the reading, the unnerving sense of awe and horror and confusion that gradually builds throughout the book as everything becomes more chaotic.
The book is great because it is so complicated. It is a very difficult read, but it showcases more or less the extreme of what an author can do with a novel that can't be done in any other medium.
I love fantasy books. I feel like they drag me into their fantastical worlds, and its like a nice break from our reality.
I haven't read through the thread so I don't know if these books were mentioned already but my first and favorite book of all time is Eragon, and the rest of the trilogy (which is not a trilogy anymore). The story is just so compelling, and the writer (Christopher Paolini) even created a "magical language" to go with the story. Bottom line: it rocks.
And, now with the vampire hype that's going on, I reccomend a novel called Vampire Academy, by Richelle Mead. It may not be written in the most sophisticated vocabulary possible, but it gets the job done, and the books just take you into the two main characters' heads in a way that made me, at least, almost cry when I got to the worst of the story T_T.
Also, there's this book called Betrayals, by the same author, that seems kind of interesting. It looks like it's centered around a girl named Dru who has the ability to see ghosts, but I don't really know anything else about it. If anybody has read it, I wanna know what they think about it.
I'm not really into stuff like Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings. Seems too boring, in my opinion.
I haven't read through the thread so I don't know if these books were mentioned already but my first and favorite book of all time is Eragon, and the rest of the trilogy (which is not a trilogy anymore). The story is just so compelling, and the writer (Christopher Paolini) even created a "magical language" to go with the story. Bottom line: it rocks.
And, now with the vampire hype that's going on, I reccomend a novel called Vampire Academy, by Richelle Mead. It may not be written in the most sophisticated vocabulary possible, but it gets the job done, and the books just take you into the two main characters' heads in a way that made me, at least, almost cry when I got to the worst of the story T_T.
Also, there's this book called Betrayals, by the same author, that seems kind of interesting. It looks like it's centered around a girl named Dru who has the ability to see ghosts, but I don't really know anything else about it. If anybody has read it, I wanna know what they think about it.
I'm not really into stuff like Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings. Seems too boring, in my opinion.