CAP 10 CAP 10 - Part 5a - Ability Discussion

[petrie911]

Since when does CAP10 get Recover and Hydro Pump? I seriously doubt it will need either of those and I believe Recover goes against the mission statement. I think this is a bit of poll jumping.

Sure, it'll counter some of those threats (as some of the ones you listed won't really do the trick case and point Breloom) but if you don't poll jump to giving it certain very valuable moves, it will really only counter some of these one at a time. For example it won't be able to handle DD Mence after it deals with CB Mamoswine.

I hadn't thought Hydro Pump had been that unreasonable, though I see a smaller proportion (~2/3) of Water types get it than I had thought. Still, even if it doesn't get Recover, it will get Rest, and Wish or Heal Bell support isn't too hard to come by. Especially since such a physically-oriented CaP10 would partner up well with Blissey.

Additionally, I would say denying it a recovery move would go against the concept. A counter isn't something that should work just once, which is also a reason type-resist berries aren't a great idea for CaP10 to utilize. Things like CB Metagross or CB Flygon have no problem switching out of you and coming back later. You'll need to be able to heal off that damage in the meantime if you want to still be acting as a Counter.

 

[DarkSlay]

I hereby dismiss my idea, per Beej's post. While I feel that many of the anti-trappers are focusing way too much on Shadow Tag and its abilities and it's somewhat unfair to say that a trapping ability is "broken" without considering adjustments, it's fair enough that it won't be chosen.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

@Gothic Togekiss: I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. My point was that even if this was correct, it seems kind of a waste...if we wanted the ultimate suicide mon, we would have just made a normal type with base 160 attack, Explosion, and Scrappy. But that's a moot point, since Shadow Tag would have a much different effect if it was actually put into use.

Okay...I see what you mean now, like CAP10 seem like it becoming a suicidal (technically more like cannon fodder than suicidal since it has bulk) Pokemon in the sense that people believe it will be useless after killing it's intended target. This way of thinking was there before Shadow Tag was even suggested.

Target [Pokemon Name]: When CAP 10 switches into its target, the target pokemon is trapped. The pokemon cannot switch out, but may still switch via Baton Pass.

So the Pokemon CAP10 switched into is the targeted Pokemon and stays trapped until that Pokemon faints? Sounds like a Ingrain for your opponent which both sounds cool and down right horrifying at the same time.

 

[beej]

Before I add my input, I want to tell people to tone down on the custom ability suggestions. This is a concept that provides plenty of existing options for its implementation, and speaking as somebody who has suggested a custom ability that got implemented, these sorts of things tend to get very contrived. If we already have the tools for the job, there's no point in making more of them. The likelihood of me allowing any of these custom abilities into the final poll is quite rare.

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This post will detail abilities I like and don't like, based on my own vision and the discussion I've seen in this thread. If the ability is bolded in black, it means that I think it's workable. If it's bolded in red, it means I'm either somewhat or highly opposed to allowing it in. If it's not bolded at all, it means I'm undecided and would appreciate additional discussion on the specific ability. Basically, these are my opinions at the moment of me viewing this thread, and I encourage people to make cases for and against them

Trace - I really like Trace for this Pokemon. As Deck Knight noted, there is a decent number of Pokemon that are directly affected by Trace upon you switching into them, but there is also a decent number of Pokemon that aren't affected at all. For this reason, Trace is a great ability for covering a number of threats, while leaving a number of Pokemon uncovered for another ability's help.

Intimidate - While Trace is a pretty general ability that can be effective against a number of Pokemon, Intimidate is a much more specific choice, but I still like it a lot. As it's been said, this Pokemon is ultimately going to have the most trouble taking physical attacks, due to its decent resists on the special end. Whereas Trace works to Intimidate Gyarados and Salamence, the actual ability Intimidate allows you to cover many more threats in the same way that otherwise might bypass you, such as Tyranitar and Lucario. All in all, I think this is a very solid choice.

Magic Guard - I'm not as outright supportive of Magic Guard as I am of Intimidate and Trace, for the reason that this ability doesn't actually pertain to countering a lot of specific Pokemon on an offensive level, but it should be noted that this Pokemon isn't strong enough to deal with a lot of Pokemon that rely on status to beat their usual counters. For example, we may resist Fire, but due to a combination of the Ground weakness and the vulnerability to status, Heatran may potentially do a LOT of damage to us with a Sub Toxic set, even if we do manage to beat it in the end. This also pertains to other semi-offensive status users like Zapdos and Rotom-h. Also, being able to switch into Spikes and SR without a problem means that you can effectively switch into more threats without an issue. For this reason, I think Magic Guard is an acceptable choice.

Filter/Solid Rock - In addition to strong neutral attacks like Lucario's Close Combat, this Pokemon is going to have some difficulty taking strong Earthquakes, and other than Celebi's and Infernape's Grass Knots, the majority of the Grass-type attacks that are sometimes seen in OU are going to do a lot of damage. For this reason, an ability that provides a direct answer to both of these problems at once is a valid choice IMO. This particularly goes for the Grass-type weakness, because while most Earthquakes are not backed up by STAB and can potentially be tanked without this, our Pokemon is going to have an immense amount of trouble surviving any Leaf Storm, or taking a Seed Bomb from Breloom. This fact alone makes Filter/Solid Rock something to consider.

Special Intimidate - This was originally a choice that interested me to an extent, but after considering it, I've realized it's neither a wise or a practical choice for this CAP. Let's look at it this way. Electric/Water really doesn't have a lot of problems on the special side. We are already resistant to three of the most powerful and common special attacking types, Fire, Water and Ice, and we take neutral damage from Electric. The only special attack that is going to be difficult to take twice in a row is STAB Draco Meteor from 110 base SpA (I'm aware of the Specs Jolteon issue, and feel that with the spreads in the running, it's very possible to EV this Pokemon to respond to Jolteon and other Electric types). There are only two of these. We are faster than Salamence no matter which spread we pick, meaning that we will only need to be able to take ONE Draco Meteor to force it out, and either Ice Beam it or use that turn to heal or initiate another strategy. This means that the only issue is Specs Latias (because we will generally be okay against other Latias), and both EV spreads can be EVed to take two Draco Meteors in a row from it. For these reasons, I find Special Intimidate to be an impractical, superfluous custom ability that doesn't bring anything to the table.

Levitate - At a glance, this actually looks like a good ability to be using for this Pokemon, but I really feel that using this, or any other immunity-inducing ability is kind of a cop-out, because the only weakness that this would be addressing, Ground, is really not the worst thing in the world to have and can be indirectly remedied by other abilities that bring more to the table all-around. Intimidate weakens every Earthquake user to a point where pretty much no Earthquake in the game can OHKO our Pokemon, Trace can potentially copy any other immunity-inducing ability in the game depending on what you switch into (including Levitate against Flygon), and Filter/Solid Rock can reduce both your Ground weakness and your Grass weakness at once. For these reasons, I don't see why it would be practical to allow Levitate to eat up an ability slot.

Shadow Tag - This is not happening. CAP10 will have decent defenses, a lot of HP and a high Speed stat no matter what spread we pick. Wobbuffet basically has these traits, but is slower. I have no idea why people have this idea in their head that we could possibly make a Pokemon that isn't broken using this ability. It isn't going into the poll. Period.

Download - I'm pretty ambivalent on this one. On the one hand, being able to adjust your offensive stats to better hit certain threats is actually a very interesting way to fulfill the concept. Being able to boost your Attack or SpA could be invaluable against bulkier offensive threats like Latias, Tyranitar and Machamp. On the other hand, Download could potentially take this Pokemon in a somewhat offensive direction due to the high Speed and decent offenses CAP10 is guaranteed to have. It's also a bit troubling that the boosts don't go away after the threat in question switches out. For these reasons, I could definitely swing either way with this ability, and I'm very interested in seeing increased discussion of its validity to help me render a decision.

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As I said in the beginning, feel free to critique and argue with my opinions. Basically, my goal is to be able to reach a consensus on what is going to the poll by the time this thread finishes, so any and all discussion is going to be making this easier. This thread will be closed sometime tomorrow afternoon or evening, meaning that you have additional time to make your points.

 

[McLuvdisc]

@DrkSlay - Seeing as Salamence takes 25% damage from Stealth Rock, getting him to switch out definitely does accomplish something. Sure, the big blue fatso is still a threat to your team, but now he's a threat with less HP. Plus, your CAP 10 is still alive and well, so what's the problem? A Pokemon does not have to trap its opponent in order to be a counter to it. If you really feel like Pokemon will be switching on CAP 10 left and right, take advantage of this fact. Lay down entry hazards galore to rack up the damage, or use CAP 10 as a pivot to get in more fragile teammates.

Edit: Oops! Ignore that last thing, and thanks SJCrew. I thought when Beej said "both problems" he was referring to the problems CAP 10 would have with taking powerful neutral moves as well as super-effective electric and grass moves.

 

[SJCrew]

I strongly suggest we brainstorm on the abilities that already exist instead of creating new ones.

Sorry guys, but I really think you're getting out of hand with these unnecessary new abilities. We're only going to sell ourselves short if we don't work with the tools implemented in the actual game to determine what would work in this hypothetical metagame and how it would work. While we are technically making a "fake" Pokemon, we're still abiding by some realistic boundaries. We should be using the parts that exist to construct a Pokemon that doesn't.

It's enough of a deterrent for potential players to deal with the fact that we're creating Pokemon, but adding in stuff like "Special Intimidate" makes it seem like an absolute joke. We already have one of those, it's called Blissey. CAP doesn't need to be God-incarnate (actually, we have one of those too lol), it just needs to do its job. Plenty of people in this thread are brainstorming ways to work with the abilities that actually exist and I think everyone rushing in with some cool new idea without giving it any serious though is just cockslapping the entire creative process and encouraging everyone to do the same.

Can we please hold off on all these new ability ideas and focus on creating a new Pokemon rather than a new game? I'd really like to see some more feasible ideas for CAP10 produced from the material we have in the game.

EDIT: I saw Beej's post just seconds before I posted, and it appears we're in agreement. Might as well toss my two cents in as well.

@Beej - How will Filter or Solid Rock effect the damage caused by neutral moves like Close Combat?

That's not what he said, read it again. >_>

 

[familyguyman]

@DrkSlay - Seeing as Salamence takes 25% damage from Stealth Rock, getting him to switch out definitely does accomplish something. Sure, the big blue fatso is still a threat to your team, but now he's a threat with less HP. Plus, your CAP 10 is still alive and well, so what's the problem? A Pokemon does not have to trap its opponent in order to be a counter to it. If you really feel like Pokemon will be switching on CAP 10 left and right, take advantage of this fact. Lay down entry hazards galore to rack up the damage, or use CAP 10 as a pivot to get in more fragile teammates.

Edit: @Beej - How will Filter or Solid Rock effect the damage caused by neutral moves like Close Combat? Both only go into effect when the Pokemon is hit by a super effective moves.

He just means that we will be taking strong EQs and Grass Moves in addition to Close Combats and the like.

As for Download, I really think it's a neat idea. As outlined above, it can fulfill the concept much like Colossoil stops the secondary by murdering common secondary users instead of sponging or deflecting secondary moves.

Additionally, Download is fairly unique in it's approach. It's useful but not broken while being offensive. Due to the abundance of defensive options, such as Intimidate or Trace, Download would hopefully provide a unique synergy should we give a second ability.

The numerical justifications have been mentioned and should be the main reason for any decision we come to, but one cannot deny the uniqueness Download brings.

 

[Paradox]

I've become a fan of the abilities Trace and Filter/Solid Rock, I recognize that Trace would most likely only be useable once in a game, sticking with the Utility Counter concept, and Filter/Solid Rock is great, because it means that the CaP will be able to switch into any pokemon (providing you didn't allow it to set up) with proper tailoring. I think that Intimidate is unnecessary, as it's only really needed to survive EQs and Seed Bombs, which are dealt with by Filter/Solid Rock. The only other really threatening attack is a STAB Outrage from Salamence, but that is survived, and Salamence is out sped and OHKO'd by both spreads.
I still think download could work, though it would require an adjustment to the offensive stats to account for this (so a download would bring the CaP to attack levels around the same or a bit above its current stats). If thats not an option, then I think Download is counter-productive.

I like the idea of using Technician for Base 90 Hidden Powers, as its a great way to be able to hit many different threats, but limit how many you can hit at once severely. However, then the CaP probably wouldn't be able to hit hard from both offensive and defensive sides of the spectrum. Also the stats were tailored generally for higher powered moves. It could be cool to add a physical hidden power and adjust the stats accordingly, but I severely doubt that that will happen. Overall I can't really see technician working.

 

[Banryu]

I've been toying with a couple of abilities that are like Colossoil's auto-Magic Guard... basically, they're the same in that they only last the first turn that CAP-10 switches in, and are automatic. I know custom abilities are mostly frowned upon, but I thought I'd throw these out there for consideration:

Auto-Taunt: It's a means of preventing SR setup on the switchin if you predict correctly. Could have any number of other applications, such as avoiding status like Thunder Wave and Will-O-Wisp, (in the event of a physical set) while preventing setup moves like Dragon Dance, Substitute, Screens, etc-- but only on the turn of the switch-in. The turn after, CAP-10's foe is free to use whatever non-attacking move.

Auto-Haze: Cancels all stat changes on the switchin, simple. Possibly unnecessary or redundant next to an ability like Unaware or Intimidate... Also might not be much good against guys like Salamence or Scizor who only need one stat-up, but consider the possiblity of erasing a Suicune's 5-6 Calm Mind boosts just by switching in.


I'll repost the list and add some more as I think of them. I'm trying to think of moves that would be very useful, but not too good... for instance, like an auto-SR or auto-screens or something would be no good (well... too good, rather, but you get the idea).

Any thoughts on these?

I like how these ideas got completely bypassed and ignored. -___-' I WOULD like to hear some thoughts on these... anything really. Tell me they're terrible for all I care, just something.

Seriously thought, I think they're worth momentary consideration at the very least.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

Trace: I have two reasons. One is that using trace actually requires some thought. It's not just "switch in and Intimidate, proceed to attack" you can only switch in a few Pokémon with favorable results. The second if that I don't want CAP10 to be getting a dedicated Fire move (not even fire punch/fang) and being able to switch in on Technician Scizor and fight him off with HP Fire sounds like a decent way to keep players from Spamming fire moves against every steel Pokémon while still giving it the tools to combat, I believe Deck Knight said it was, 12% of the metagame?

Adatability: No matter who wins this thing isn't going to have much beef. 2x STAB modifier is a good remedy to this, allowing CAP10 some power while not having to invest every last EV just to 3HKO.

 

[Seizen]

Err, again, I don't understand the support or denial of Shadow Tag. We've declared it an "Uber" ability, but that's a) impossible, as there is no such thing and b) why on earth would Drizzle be Uber as well if Sand Stream wasn't, seeing as it has a Weather team which is better all-round. That, and Sand Stream dedicates more preference for it's primary holder and also damages most Pokemon.
The reason we don't want it is because it doesn't do us any favours - we therefore force CAP10 to run all-out attack moves, with a possible recovery, and no Choice items. Now, I'm not advocating Choice items as a way to play Utility Counter, but someone may want to use it that way, which is the point: customization. Shadow Tag offers no customization, just the making of the optimum set to attack everything.

Download is a bit stupid. We're basically saying "Hey! This needs a stat boost when it comes in, but we can't be bothered to think it through!" -_- Why is this considered a good idea? Besides the fact that anything chosen is likely to be creature-based, therefore not computer-based and the ability/ Pokemon no longer mesh properly, can you honestly see this not being exploited for sweeping?

Technician shouldn't be chosen. Taking into account the fact that Surf/ Thunderbolt/ Ice Beam is a strong attacking set for a Water/Electric, all those moves have power higher than 90. This would only help the Physical spreads, and Waterfall, Thunder Fang and Thunderpunch would all do more damage than Tech. boosted moves in the first place. It basically says run more Hidden Power for more battle ability, because we all need to do that some more with yet another Pokemon. Oh wait, half our sets run it because the move is so good.

Adaptability seems a useful ability, as it means we use our STAB some more. However, T-bolt is a very effective move, and making the STAB more effective seems to be slightly overkill. That said, I can easily get behind it, as Deck's concept has the higher Sp. Atk and that still is barely in the 80s region.

I still think though that Magic Guard/ Intimidate are very useful, mainly as they complement one another to a degree. If we honestly need to counter Sp. Attackers, use Blissey. Therefore, Special Intimidate is pointless - we already have a Pokemon for that. Magic Guard meanwhile helps us against SubSeeders and Stalls, while Intimidate helps against Physical Sweepers. Most Pokemon run a moveset which is specialised but not overly so, in case they get caught out. If it causes people to stop over-specializing and think things through more carefully, that's probably a good thing.

@Paradox: So basically, Infernape w/ SD set using Close Combat is no threat? Right... okay... err, hello - that's a threat! Filter is another way of saying "We don't want to be EQ-weak, but we don't want to make ourselves immune to Spikes. So we're going halfway." It's generally considered that the community wants a light-weight Pokemon for CAP10 to stop Grass Knot, which is considered the only useful Grass-typed threat. Therefore, why don't we just slap Levitate over Filter and be done with it then?
Secondly, it's outsped at Base Stats. Yeah - because Salamence isn't going to be running 252 Speed if it's a Sweeper... -_-" You see where we're heading? DDMence runs Outrage, while ChoiceMence will run Draco Meteor. Therefore, CAP 10 needs to similarly maximize the Speed Stats and have a +Nature, just like 'Mence, to outspeed almost all spreads. And when we're switching in, it's either going to switch out again, or be using Dragon Dance to instantly outspeed us.

 

[familyguyman]

Err, again...

So you are against Download for potential sweeper issues (flavour issues aside) but you don't mind Adaptability? There's a reason mono-stat +1 boosting moves are rarely used to sweep, it's not enough to break walls. Download will let us go in and immediately threaten with limited sweeper potential. First of all, unless you go mixed, Download will only let you counter a subset of Pokemon well while doing nothing against the other set. Secondly, if you do go mixed, you'll have to sacrifice bulk or speed to pull it off with those mediocre offensive stats, which will limit CAP10 otherwise.

 

[Paradox]

@Paradox: So basically, Infernape w/ SD set using Close Combat is no threat? Right... okay... err, hello - that's a threat! Filter is another way of saying "We don't want to be EQ-weak, but we don't want to make ourselves immune to Spikes. So we're going halfway." It's generally considered that the community wants a light-weight Pokemon for CAP10 to stop Grass Knot, which is considered the only useful Grass-typed threat. Therefore, why don't we just slap Levitate over Filter and be done with it then?

Who would switch the CaP into an infernape after letting it get a swords dance up. Anyways, if you want to counter all Infernapes, toss on a choice scarf. Thats the whole idea, that customization is required to take on threats.
Also, to reply to the rest of your post, you seem to expect this pokemon to be spamming STAB attacks like surf and thunderbolt (adaptability, your argument against technician, etc.) As far as I can tell, that is pretty much the opposite of what the intention is. It seems that a big part is using coverage moves, and the only reason I mentioned technician was that it allows you to use a powerful attack to abuse any pokemon's weaknesses, but you can't run a Thunderbolt/Surf/Fire Blast/Icebeam that takes out a bunch of pokemon. Regardless, I don't support technician and pointed out bigger flaws with it, so I'm not sure what point you were trying to make.

 

[Bucky]

I'm going to suggest Adaptability and Trace. I think these two are perfect for this Pokemon to fully serve its purpose which is to counter specific threats. Adaptability suits this Pokemon exceptionally well, as its typing grants wonderful STAB moves such as Surf, Waterfall, Thunder, Discharge, etc, and will assist it in taking down various threats. Trace will help it shut down more specific threats towards teams such as Salamence or Swift Swim Ludicolo who can be a real pain in the butt.

Aside from those two, I really like the idea of Drizzle and Motor Drive on this Pokemon, but I doubt they will be as beneficial as the ones previously mentioned.


Abilities Explained...

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Adaptability - This Pokemon's attacks that receive STAB (Same Type Attack Bonus) are increased from 50% to 100%.
Trace - When this Pokemon enters the field, it temporarily copies an opponent's ability (except Multitype). This ability remains with this Pokemon until it leaves the field.
Drizzle - When this Pokemon enters the battlefield, it causes a permanent Rain Dance that can only be stopped by Air Lock, Cloud Nine or another weather condition.
Motor Drive - This Pokemon is immune to all Electric-type attacks, including Thunder Wave, and if an Electric-type attack hits this Pokemon, it receives a one-level Speed boost.

I do wonder though, if CAP10 has ability Swift Swim, will it be able to outspeed Salamence after a Dragon Dance?

 

[Deck Knight]

I'm generally against offensive abilities for CAP 10, which takes Download out of the picture for me. It also affects Magic Guard because CAP10 won't suffer recoil damage from Life Orb

As I said before I support Trace for it's versatility, and don't believe it is overpowered. In order to take advantage of it you need to switch CAP10 out and back in again, meaning two turns for your opponent to attack, or you can use it as a revenge killer I suppose. It hard counters a specific set of pokemon that I mentioned in the first list, but that list isn't exhaustive and in the case of something like Bronzong you still have to deal with support sets. Heck, Jolteon could Dry Pass to something more dangerous after you Trace Volt Absorb. Toxic would always be an issue.

I did think of another good defensive ability: Shield Dust. It combines the advantage of Inner Focus with a freeze immunity (there is no direct freezing move) and means you won't be burned or paralyzed by an errant Lava Plume or Discharge. I suppose a second Electric CAP with Shield Dust might be overkill, but I figured I'd mention it.

Another oddball option might be Quick Feet. Using a Poison or Burn Orb to activate it would be pretty foolish given it isn't that great a sweeper with the speed boost, and it takes a turn to activate (or an opportune switch in). It wouldn't prevent full paralysis but it would negate the speed drop, so it's a little more versatile than Limber.

Otherwise I'd like to discuss a few useful Status Immunity conferring abilities like Immunity and Limber, or Damp. Air Lock would also be useful since CAP10 would have immunity to weather.

 

[VKCA]

Download is a bit stupid. We're basically saying "Hey! This needs a stat boost when it comes in, but we can't be bothered to think it through!" -_- Why is this considered a good idea? Besides the fact that anything chosen is likely to be creature-based, therefore not computer-based and the ability/ Pokemon no longer mesh properly, can you honestly see this not being exploited for sweeping?

I really like the idea behind download. Lets say this pokemon ends up with download and intimidate as abilities. That means that depending on the ability it can either stop an opposing sweeper, or come in and do some wall breaking with +1 in an offensive stat. Obviously the stats would be modified accordingly, and you would be able counter blissey, or you could stop a physical wall. Although most physical walls would run in terror from this guy..

 

[Rising_Dusk]

For starters, I am going to say that Intimidate is the most important ability that this CAP can have to facilitate doing what it is intended to do, hands down. Countering threats like Machamp, Lucario, Infernape, Tyranitar, etc. is incredibly difficult and dangerous to CAP10 even when tech'd to beat those threats because of its neutrality to Fighting, Rock, and weakness to Ground attacks. Intimidate softens the blows against it on the switch-in, which makes it far more possible to counter these threats than without it.

When we consider CAP10's typing, Trace makes very little sense when compared to Intimidate. Of the threats that CAP10 will inevitably be up against at some point, those that are countered by Trace fare rather poorly against CAP10's typing anyways. Heatran and Vaporeon all do terribly against CAP10 with their STABs being resisted. Furthermore, threats like Salamence and Gyarados are handled the same with Trace as they would be with Intimidate. About the only threat Trace handles better than Intimidate is Jolteon, whose Specs-Boosted STAB Thunderbolt doesn't even muster a 2HKO against a 252/252 CAP10 (Assuming Deck's spread). Meanwhile, Trace doesn't help you one bit against threats like Lucario, Mamoswine, Infernape, Tyranitar, Machamp, etc. The level of general usefulness of a CAP10 with Intimidate far exceeds the general usefulness of a CAP10 with Trace - yet even so, he won't be countering all of the threats unless tech'd specifically to do so. Intimidate is the perfect primary ability for this CAP, through and through.

I remain unconvinced of any other ability so far for a second ability. Trace won't work as it's largely redundant with Intimidate and vastly less useful. Magic Guard is a possibility, as it helps with the switch-in and so forth, but I remain concerned about its repercussions on the move pool and also on using a Life Orb as your item. Levitate helps against the Pokemon that Intimidate doesn't do much to, such as Metagross, but might put CAP10 over the top in power if it boasts a reliable recovery move.

All I can say is that I firmly believe that CAP10 needs Intimidate above all other options.

 

[Champagne]

I did think of another good defensive ability: Shield Dust. It combines the advantage of Inner Focus with a freeze immunity (there is no direct freezing move) and means you won't be burned or paralyzed by an errant Lava Plume or Discharge. I suppose a second Electric CAP with Shield Dust might be overkill, but I figured I'd mention it.

That one got a quick mention in my original post before I took it down. Of course, the guy who suggests Klutz and Shield Dust is quickly ignored because these abilities exist on Pokemon rejects despite being excellent abilities-- and Klutz particularly because it doesn't spark obvious uses when one first reads it.

Here I am-- the guy who suggests relatively low BST spreads and abilities that don't see much usage. What a reject am I.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Klutz is pretty worthless, though. Outside of tricking something bad to someone on the opponent's team, it has no real use. Furthermore, being utterly unable to garner some benefit from your own item is in its own fashion crippling to CAP10. I would much prefer another ability to Klutz, considering those things.

 

[intercline]

I'm going to throw Unaware back in the mix. Unaware would enable CAP10 to switch into, say a latias that has used calm mind a couple times, and take away it's boost then hopefully finish it.

As for the custom abilities mentioned, I would give CAP10 traunt before I would give it a custom ability.

On a quick side note, does anyone know if unaware affects choice band and life orb, or just in-battle boosts?

 

[familyguyman]

I'm going to throw Unaware back in the mix. Unaware would enable CAP10 to switch into, say a latias that has used calm mind a couple times, and take away it's boost then hopefully finish it.

As for the custom abilities mentioned, I would give CAP10 traunt before I would give it a custom ability.

On a quick side note, does anyone know if unaware affects choice band and life orb, or just in-battle boosts?

Just in battle boosts. I'd be careful to go that way as Arghonaut, our other bulky Water, has his trademark as Unaware. That shouldn't stop us but it's definitely been done and I think we should differentiate more.

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

I am in support of Trace/Intimidate.

Trace gives us the Porygon2 feel everyone who's played OU knows: The switch-in to Gyarados or Salamence, and being able to [semi-reliably] scare them away with the threat of Thunderbolt or Ice Beam, respectively. This will be able to counter the top threats and set-uppers, e.g. Salamence, Gyarados, Agiligross, use self-absorbing or immunity-gaining against them, including, but not limited to, Jolteon, Vaporeon, Heatran, Swampert, and the other numerous Ground-types.

Intimidate seemed maybe a bit redundant, but I decided it was still a good choice. We've seen it all on Gyarados and Salamence (lol, am I using these two too much?), but they use it to set up and sweep (except for WishMence). Using Intimidate on a defensive pokemon is IMO even better, for they can use that to reduce the amount of damage taken. The only thing I'm a bit scared of, however, is (assuming DK's spread is chosen, which looks like it will) with a gargantuan HP stat, and pretty good defenses, if we give it Intimidate, what's keeping this CAP from turning into an all-purpose wall, being able to tank hits with about 433 HP, 213 Defense, and 264 Special Defense? Remember that we have Intimidate, too. That's one scary pokemon, with Cresselia-ish defenses and not too many exploitable weaknesses; though my con section has been quite a bit larger, I'm still in some support of it, but not nearly as far as I am for Trace.

I don't think Adaptability is such a great choice, as Water and Electric give pretty good coverage by themselves, and that you can use the CAP as a bulky sweeper, with (assuming we get these moves) Surf/Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt/Discharge, <Recovery move X>, and some random coverage move, say, Ice Beam. That hits almost everything for SE damage, and it still won't take much damage (percentage-wise).

@Bucky: Swift Swim doubles your speed, which is essentially a +2 to your speed. Dragon Dance is a +1 to your speed. DK's spread gives 105 speed. Fuzznip's spread gives 120 speed. Salamence has 100 speed. Clear?
Fun Fact: With a neutral nature, no speed investment, and Swift Swim (rain comes included), you reach 492 speed (with DK's spread). With Fuzznip's spread, you get 552 speed. Salamence, with a Dragon Dance (+1), a positive speed nature, and 252 EVs in speed, gets 492 speed, barely enough to tie with DK's spread (assuming Swift Swim, blablabla), which means you can just put in 4 EVs in to outspeed +1 Salamence.

Enough rambling, a recap: Trace, and maybe Initimidate.

 

[Dominion]

Supported Abilities in Bold Black.
Against Abilities in Bold Red.

I actually like the combination of Trace/Download. This gives the CAP an offensive ability as well as a Defensive ability, allowing people to choose whether or not they want the CAP to lean towards an offensive or defensive approach to whatever they are attempting to check/counter. But niether ability are extremely powerful or sometimes they are downright useless if the enemy switches.

For example, I trace Intimidate on Salamence but that trace only works on Salamence. So, Gengar is still going to hit me extremely hard when it switches in. Download works the same way. I may have gotten a special attack boost off of Salamence but Blissey is still a threat to me when my opponent switches Mence for Blissey.

I don't like intimidate because it's difficult to pick a second ability that is used as often as it is. Due to this pokemon leaning more towards the defensive side of the spectrum, I feel a powerful defensive trait would almost always be picked over a moderate trait of either offensive or defensive origin.

I also do not like Shield Dust. Not because it's a terrible ability. Its because it's lackluster and would almost never be picked over something such as Trace or Intimidate. It's effect is simply to stop other effects. Thats just Hax. Stopping that 10% chance to burn may sound appealing, but its only 10%. The only times I could see this ability being amazing is against parahax Togekiss and possibly attacks that reduce defenses (Shadow Ball, Seed Flare) or Falcon Dynamic Punch's 50% confusion rate. The ability is too specific and isn't really that amazing on this CAP. If this CAP were a pure wall or the ultimate damage absorber, then sure, it may be useful, as Hax as we all know are the bain of Stall.

 

[Skymin_Flower]

Supported Abilities in Bold Black.
Against Abilities in Bold Red.

I actually like the combination of Trace/Download. This gives the CAP an offensive ability as well as a Defensive ability, allowing people to choose whether or not they want the CAP to lean towards an offensive or defensive approach to whatever they are attempting to check/counter. But niether ability are extremely powerful or sometimes they are downright useless if the enemy switches.

For example, I trace Intimidate on Salamence but that trace only works on Salamence. So, Gengar is still going to hit me extremely hard when it switches in. Download works the same way. I may have gotten a special attack boost off of Salamence but Blissey is still a threat to me when my opponent switches Mence for Blissey.

I don't like intimidate because it's difficult to pick a second ability that is used as often as it is. Due to this pokemon leaning more towards the defensive side of the spectrum, I feel a powerful defensive trait would almost always be picked over a moderate trait of either offensive or defensive origin.

I also do not like Shield Dust. Not because it's a terrible ability. Its because it's lackluster and would almost never be picked over something such as Trace or Intimidate. It's effect is simply to stop other effects. Thats just Hax. Stopping that 10% chance to burn may sound appealing, but its only 10%. The only times I could see this ability being amazing is against parahax Togekiss and possibly attacks that reduce defenses (Shadow Ball, Seed Flare) or Falcon Dynamic Punch's 50% confusion rate. The ability is too specific and isn't really that amazing on this CAP. If this CAP were a pure wall or the ultimate damage absorber, then sure, it may be useful, as Hax as we all know are the bain of Stall.

Just so you know, Dynamicpunch's confusion rate is 100% :)

 

[ATray]

That one got a quick mention in my original post before I took it down. Of course, the guy who suggests Klutz and Shield Dust is quickly ignored because these abilities exist on Pokemon rejects despite being excellent abilities-- and Klutz particularly because it doesn't spark obvious uses when one first reads it.

Klutz would be an excellent ability and perfectly fitting with the concept. since different pokemon are screwed up by different items, a tricker that could take advantage of this would only be able to counter certain pokemon at once, since a pokemon can only hold one item.