Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
General Description: Pick a good-but-not-great OU pokemon, and design the perfect teammate for it, similar to the way Celebi & Heatran, or Blissey & Skarmory complement each other so well on competitive teams.
Justification:
This would allow us to explore in detail how synergy between two pokemon can be achieved, because currently there are only a few perfect teammates in OU. And depending on the base pokemon we choose to give a "perfect mate", we can open a new niche in the metagame based around the efficient pairing.
The niche we create will be inherently tied to an existing pokemon in the metagame, which should provide a natural limitation to prevent this concept from being broken or "too different" from standard OU.
Questions To Be Answered:
Is the base pokemon's usefulness (and usage) in the metagame increased as a result of having a "perfect mate"?
What strategies are more effective for the base pokemon, as a result of having a perfect teammate?
What are the most effective aspects of the new pokemon, for purposes of making a great teammate with the base pokemon?
Is the new pokemon viable in the metagame without the base pokemon as a teammate
Typing: Fighting / Dark
Stat Spread: 90 HP / 85 Atk / 80 Def / 105 SpA / 80 SpD / 110 Spe
Abilities: Volt Absorb / Lightningrod
Name: Voodoom
Introduction
This stage of the CAP process is where complete movepools are created and submitted for consideration by the Topic Leader. There are many restrictions on the moves that are allowed, as well as how many of each move type are allowed per movepool. There is a limit on which competitive moves may be allowed into a movepool based on the lists generated by the Movepool Discussion stage of the CAP process. No competitive move that is not specifically listed as allowed in the Movepool Discussion stage can appear on any submitted movepool. As to what makes a move competitive or not, it is a decision to be made at the sole discretion of the Topic Leader.
The movepools submitted are intended to be structured like a normal Pokémon movepool. Many specific guidelines for standard Pokémon movepools are elaborated in this article, and should be followed by every movepool submitter. A complete movepool should contain several lists of moves, according to the method by which the Pokémon learns the moves - Level-Up Moves, TMs, Move Tutor Moves, and Egg Moves. The egg groups for the Pokémon are determined by the movepool submitter. Project participants can submit a draft proposals of full movepools and edit them based on feedback from the Topic Leader and the general public. After reviewing the draft movepools, the Topic Leader will select several submitters to present final movepool submissions. Those final submissions will be voted on by the general public.
Movepool Restrictions
Movepool size is restricted for a given CAP. The Stat and Movepool Limits determines the limits for Base Stat Ratings, and sets limits for the total movepool size and the total number of Very Good Moves allowed in the movepool. What constitutes a Very Good Move requires a bit of explanation based upon the following definitions. For these purposes, only standard OU Pokémon are considered, UU and Uber Pokémon are not counted.
"Good Pokémon" Description
Any Pokémon that has ever been used more than 25,000 times in a month on the Standard ladder.
"Most Commonly Used Moves" Description
Any move that has ever been used enough on a Pokémon to get listed distinctly on the monthly detail reports for that Pokémon on any competitive ladder.
"Very Good Moves(VGM)" Description
Any move that has ever been a "Most Commonly Used Move" for any "Good Pokémon".
Please take special note of the Equivalent Move List and the Move-Move List in the linked article. I will be checking to make sure all of these moves are linked together where neccesary. If there is a Move-Move link (like Crunch -> Roar) where the linked move is disallowed, your movepool can forgo that linked move.
Voodoom's Movepool Limits: Voodoom's BSR: 337, Very Good Total Moves: 75 VGMs: 35
Use the Movepool Guide and Complete Movepool Submissions as your primary resources. Making a movepool is a great endeavor and should not be entered into lightly. Some of this information is reiterated below:
For each section include a Total Move Count and a VGM Count.
Type-Move Requirements: Your Movepools MUST contain these moves.
Fighting:
Brick Break
Bulk Up
Focus Blast
Focus Punch
Mud-Slap
Rock Slide
Rock Smash
Sunny Day
Vacuum Wave
Dark:
Dark Pulse
Mud-Slap
Payback
Sunny Day
Taunt
Custom Note: Although for flavor DougJustDoug has a pre-vo that is Normal/Dark, Normal's Type-Move requirements (Double-Edge, Sunny Day, Rain Dance) are NOT necessary for approval.
I have atttached an excel sheet like the one we used for revisions to assist people. It includes all of the Allowed and Disallowed Moves. Unforunately my edition is 2010 so you will probably have to convert, but nonetheless it will help you determine legality. I have already filled out TM's up to Taunt. If you really want to put in stuff like Hail or Bullet Seed or whatever, be my guest, but otherwise you should just be able to add the rest of your TMs afterward at your leisure.
I will post below with the Allowed and Disalowed Competitive Moves. Generally speaking any VGM in the guide is a Competitive Move and cannot be used if it is not in the lists. Non-Competitive-Moves are fair game, but if it's on the line I will inform the submitter as I make my rounds.
For reference, these are the allowed and disallowed Attacking and Non-Attacking Moves.
Allowed Attacking Moves:
Aura Sphere
Blizzard
Brick Break
Close Combat
Crunch
Dark Pulse
Double-Edge
Earthquake
Focus Blast
Focus Punch
Ice Beam
Ice Punch
Low Kick
Mach Punch
Night Slash
Payback
Power Gem
Psychic
Pursuit
Rock Slide
Shadow Sneak
Stone Edge
Sucker Punch
Superpower
Vacuum Wave
Disallowed Attacking Moves:
Electric Moves
Fire Moves
Grass Moves
Allowed Non-Attacking Moves:
Acupressure
Baton Pass
Block/Mean Look
Body Slam
Bulk Up
Bulk Up
Counter
Follow Me
Force Palm
Glare
Gravity
Helping Hand
Imprison
Knock Off
Pain Split
Perish Song
Psych Up
Psycho Shift
Rain Dance
Safeguard
Snatch
Sunny Day
Taunt
Thunder Wave
Torment
Disallowed Non-Attacking Moves:
Legal combinations of Block/Mean Look and Baton Pass
Legal combinations of Block/Mean Look and Perish Song
Stat Boosters outside Bulk Up/Accupressure
Sleep Moves
Switcheroo/Trick
50% Recovery Moves
Fake Tears/Metal Sound
Heal Bell/Aromatherapy
Reflect/Light Screen
Entry Hazards
Destiny Bond
Will-O-Wisp
Trick Room
Mirror Coat
Fake Out
Encore
U-turn
I've been working on this for quite a while, and made small changes as certain moves got disallowed/allowed. There are still several moves I'm unsure about, but I hope it'll all get solved when this process is all done. I didn't get the time to make my explanations yet so I'll add those as I move along.
Level Up
H Wrap
H Revenge
H Night Slash*
--- Astonish
--- Copycat
--- Pain Split*
--- Spite
7 Pain Split* (repeat)
11 Spite (repeat)
15 Grudge
19 Charge
20 Follow Me
25 Pin Missile
30 Faint Attack
35 Close Combat*
40 Acupressure
45 Aura Sphere*
50 Substitute*
55 Beat Up
For the record you need 4 base moves before something else technically becomes a Heart Scale moves
Total Moves: 18 (16 unique)
Total VGM: 6 (5 Unique)
VGM List: Pain Split, Close Combat, Aura Sphere, Night Slash
When I saw Voodoom's design, I immediately looked at Cacturne, a resident Dark-type humanshaped Pokemon, and partially based my movepool on that. I looked at others for inspiration as well, such as Banette (the real voodoo doll Pokemon), Lucario, Infernape, Dusknoir, etc.
I began the movepool with Voodoll's possible levelup, after three Heart Scale moves that would represent Voodoom: Wrap as a form of trapping (and is legal with Perish Song), Revenge to represent Voodoom's vengeful nature, and Night Slash to represent its ability to slash things apart with its needle lol. Anyways, I figured a good basic move would be Astonish, given its ghostliness, and Copycat is added because I love the move :D. From there, Pain Split, Spite, and Grudge take their turns representing the Voodoo magic. At Lv.19, Voodoll learns Charge, allowing it to evolve on the next level. I felt that Charge represents the "getting hit by lightning" phase of the story better as it involves electrical absorption rather than a discharge, and Doug himself said Thundershock was the first electric move that came into his mind.
A word from DougJustDoug himself
18:29 DougJustDoug Thundershock was just the first "electric move not named Thunderbolt", Jibaku. Any electric move works just fine for the flavor story.
Thus, Voodoll evolves at Lv. 20 (well...it can evolve earlier if you get Charge bred onto one, but...).
Right before Voodoll evolves, it learns Follow Me (which is relearned if you refuse the move and it evolves). Follow Me represents the Voodoo doll's ability to take hits and fits in very well with its secondary ability Lightningrod. Voodoom eventually learns Pin Missile as its malevolent nature begins to form, utilizing the pins in its body as weapons. Faint Attack was inspired by Wyverii's "silent assassin" pose, but Voodoom sometimes find it not enough to just strike from the darkness as the target can take the hit and flee. In the darkness Voodoom trains hard and learns Close Combat - allowing it to secure its prey by smashing it into oblivion.
However, Close Combat puts Voodoom's life at risk (for obvious reasons), and it repeatedly gets injured fighting its prey. It learns acupuncture (Acupressure) to heighten its senses and make it more resistant. Through this it eventually unlocks a huge amount of Aura in its body and becomes capable of learning Aura Sphere. And thus, Voodoom's training ends here. In its retirement, Voodoom begins to create dolls, hoping that one day, a new Voodoll will be born. In times of emergency, Voodoom can use these dolls as a method of defense (Substitute).
With free time in its hands, Voodoom searches for more of its kind. As a group, they are ready to mercilessly Beat Up any threats that come by.
Notable Moves: Bulk Up, Taunt, Dark Pulse, Thunder Wave, Stone Edge
A notable feature here is the lack of Ice Beam (and Blizzard). I think Ice Beam is unneeded given the excellent coverage presented by its STABs as well as Volt Absorb for nullifying Zapdos' Thunderbolts. HP Ice is enough to take care of even the bulkiest of Dragonite. Between Taunt and Dark Pulse, Zapdos is beaten anyways, unless it uses Drill Peck, but if it decides to do that it has sacrificed enough against the metagame that I don't think it needs to be punished further.
As a Dark type it gets the typical and flavorful moves Taunt, Thief, and Torment (the three Ts). Stone Edge and Earthquake are M-Ms and practically everything else is T-Ms. Unfortunately, there isn't much flavor you can put in here. I added Dream Eater in because I think one of the things Voodoom would prey on is dreams
Total Moves: 13 (11 unique)
Total VGM: 5(4 Unique)
Unfortunately, Voodoom doesn't learn much from Move Tutor either, but notable moves include Low Kick, Ice Punch, and Counter. Knock Off is a mandatory flavor move, so it's there. You can also imagine Nightmare as part of voodoo magic, as well as Metronome as a magical move in general due to its randomness :p. Unfortunately, nothing else comes to mind here. I can't really see this thing using Superpower at all with a rather squishy looking body and the ability to learn Close Combat already. And of course, how could you possibly have a Voodoo doll learnset without Counter?
NO ILLEGALITIES
The Egg moves add icing to the cake. Perish Song is important here as it is the closest thing that would represent the critical point of the voodoo magic - where both the target and the doll itself die. Pursuit reflects Voodoom's nature as it will relentlessly chase prey until it falls. Imprison fits so well with the voodoo flavoring - let's just say that a stab in one area of the Voodoo's body incapacitates the corresponding area on the target. That's what Imprison is in this case. Memento is a great flavor move in general, especially on something that could easily suicide, and can help Togekiss set up easier. Since Baton Pass is allowed and there's quite a bit of support for it, I've decided to include it. Voodoom can have a cool gimmick role in Baton Passing Acupressure, something only Dodrio is currently capable of. In terms of flavor, Voodoom can store tremendous amounts of energy in its needle and pass it to the recipient. Mach Punch gives Voodoom a physical priority option and Voodoll may appreciate having access to priority in the nonexistent CAP Little Cup!
Full Total Moves: 74
Full Total VGM: 35
VGM List:
1) Night Slash
2) Pain Split
3) Protect
4) Close Combat
5) Baton Pass
6) Aura Sphere
7) Focus Punch
8) Toxic
9) Bulk Up
10) Hidden Power
11) Taunt
12) Hyper Beam
13) Body Slam
14) Frustration
15) Psychic
16) Earthquake
17) Brick Break
18) Façade
19) Rest
20) Focus Blast
21) Payback
22) Thunder Wave
23) Dark Pulse
24) Rock Slide
25) Sleep Talk
26) Substitute
27) Memento
28) Counter
29) Stone Edge
30) Mach Punch
31) Low Kick
32) Vacuum Wave
33) Pursuit
34) Perish Song
35) Ice Punch
Conclusion:
One thing I loved about Voodoom is that the excellent STABs allow it to have a compact offensive movepool, and thus leaving quite a decent amount of room for flavor. That said, I hope you enjoy the backstory I put into the level up movelist as well as the inclusion of essentially every ounce of voodoo magic I could find in the Pokemon world.
One thing that I did find very bothersome about this CAP is that as it is not part Ghost, it can not utilize Ghost Curse unless its type is changed through one way or the other. As Curse is a VGM I struggled to find a place for it, so I left it out with a hard heart.
Below this conclusion is a small comparison with Rising Dusk's movepool as he often mentions on IRC of how similar our movepools are x___x.
Notable Differences from Rising Dusk's movepool
+Perish Song, +Counter, + Copycat, +Imprison, +Ice Punch, +Revenge
-Twineedle, -Needle Arm, -Psycho Shift, -Punishment, -Superpower
Reasons behind the exclusion of Needle Arm and Twineedle
The reasons why Twineedle and Needle Arm aren't included in my movepool is that they are signature moves, and I generally dislike using them. Needle Arm's description says "the user swings its thorny arms". But really? This thing doesn't have thorns or even needles on its arms...at all. the best it can do is rip one needle out and stuff it into its atm, but how much different would that be from Night Slash?
Twineedle I suppose makes some sense, but his movepool doesn't even have Poison Jab, which should probably be mandatory with Twineedle due to its poisonous nature. Keep in mind that the description is "The foe is jabbed twice by a pair of stingers", and this thing does not have stingers and can't even jab Poison onto the opponent.
Of course that's just me rambling. I know there are weird things like Crawdaunt using Crunch, but meh. I just don't like these moves due to the fact that they're signature moves.
I don't have the experience with this necessary to suggest my own complete moveset.
but as a fighting type who is covered with needles.
I BEG for "Needle Arm" to be a flavourful move for Voodoom.
It shouldn't violate the "no grass moves" clause because it has such a low base power and our poke doesn't have technician to boost it.
Just something for other people submitting movesets to consider.
Edit:
VV love this moveset below. It has everything I'd have done: needle arm. Night slash instead of crunch, Force Palm and body slam instead of thunder wave. Sub-punch inclusion VV
Hey all, DrkSlay here! While I’ve been an active speaker when it comes to movepools and such in the past, I’ve never actually submitted my own. This time, however, I’ve decided to give it a try. To be honest, I had a blast doing this, as I found it really fun to try and bring as much competitive flavor to this CAP project as I could. Almost every single move in this movepool, bar some of the required ones, has a reason (flavor or competitive) that it’s on this list. I tried to make it a fun experience, and I hope I’ve made a few people happy when they realize “Oh, this move fits!” and “That’s really neat that it has that!” Enjoy!
KEY: BOLD : The move is a Very Good Move (VGM).
Normal : The move is a Non-Very Good Move (Non-VGM). (*) : The move is repeated, and does not count against the VGM/non-VGM/Total Move counts. (**) : There is a similar move, meaning the two moves together count as one space taken.
Total Level-Up Moves: 19
VGM Count: 6
Repeated VGM's: 1
Non-VGM Count: 12 Total Moves: 18
Notable Competitive Moves: Aura Sphere,Memento, Close Combat, Night Slash.
Notes: As I was looking through the move listings, I noticed that there were quite a number of neat flavor moves that would be pretty cool for the doll-like Voodoom to have as it levels up. For instance, a good number of these earlier moves involve Voodoom (potentially Voodoll) taking damage in the process of its attacks. When it involves, the move list shifts to attacks that focus on taking revenge on the opponent through power and trickery. Night Slash is a really good flavor move when compared to Crunch, so it makes the level-up list first. Since Destiny Bond is disallowed, Memento is most likely the next in line for best competitive flavor move, and might give Togekiss an easier time setting up. Aura Sphere and Close Combat are somewhat givens. Counter makes the most sense with the concept flavor-wise as well.
Pain Split is the epitome of a voodoo doll, in my opinion, so it seems necessary to add it from a flavor perspective (I wouldn’t get too worried about its competitive usage, long story short). Disable, Acupressure, Counter, Cotton Spore, Twieedle, and Pin Missile are pretty cool flavor picks. And of course, you have Thundershock in as a mandatory of Doug’s backstory. As you can note, Level 32 is where I envision Voodoll evolving into Voodoom, and when it does, it gains two STAB moves to signify its change in typing. This isn’t uncommon, as Metang and other Pokes can do this.
TM Moves:
01: Focus Punch 06: Toxic 08: Bulk Up 10: Hidden Power
11: Sunny Day 12: Taunt 13: Ice Beam 14: Blizzard 15: Hyper Beam 17: Protect 21: Frustration (**) 26: Earthquake 27: Return (**) 29: Psychic 31: Brick Break
32: Double Team
41: Torment (*) 42: Facade
43: Secret Power 44: Rest
45: Attract
46: Thief 52: Focus Blast
58: Endure
60: Drain Punch 66: Payback
68: Giga Impact 71: Stone Edge
78: Captivate 79: Dark Pulse 80: Rock Slide 82: Sleep Talk
83: Natural Gift
87: Swagger 90: Substitute
HM01: Cut
HM04: Strength
HM06: Rock Smash
Total TM’s: 37
VGM Count: 21 (27)
Repeat VGM’s: 1
Non-VGM Count: 15 (29)
Repeat Non-VGM's: 1 Total Moves: 53
Notable Competitive Moves: Bulk Up, Ice Beam/Blizzard. Psychic, Earthquake, Focus Blast, Stone Edge, Dark Pulse, Rock Slide.
Notes: It’s not the biggest TM list in CAP (currently 37 moves total), but it packs some pretty important competitive moves, most notably Dark Pulse and Focus Blast. Earthquake / Stone Edge / Rock Slide are requirements together, so it’s all or nothing. It’s the same for Brick Break / Close Combat and such.
From a non-competitive standpoint, Torment is a pretty cool flavor move, as voodoo magic usually revolves around tormenting a single person. Thief fits well with its Dark typing, and Drain Punch also fits well with the voodoo theme, stealing energy from its target. Swagger is chosen because, hey, it’s Fighting / Dark. Why wouldn’t it have some swagger to it, you know?
Move Tutor Moves
Ice Punch Vacuum Wave
Snore
Mud-Slap
Metronome
Headbutt Low Kick
Role Play
Spite Counter (*)
DynamicPunch
Total Tutor Moves: 11
VGM Count: 3 (31)
Repeats: 1
Non-VGM Count: 7 (34) Total Move Count: 66
Notes: Small list, but some notable ones. Vacuum Wave is a type move, and Superpower / Low Kick are good coverage moves over Close Combat. Ice Punch is in, as it’s redundant with Ice Beam, really. Counter is a repeat.
Non-competitive moves are mostly for flavor. DynamicPunch is awful without No Guard, but it fits in with the Fighting type and the egg group. Role Play represents the doll representing a certain individual. Mud-Slap is a requirement for Dark types. Spite is a flavor move. Metronome is just a cool move to have, plus is also favor (it takes a move from any and all Pokemon, after all).
Egg Move List
Voodoom’s Egg Group(s): Humanshape Group
Mach Punch (Hitmonchan, Infernape)
Power Gem (Sableye)
Pursuit (Toxicroak)
Wake-Up Slap (Jynx)
Baton Pass (Volbeat, Illumise, Mr. Mime, Medicham)
Notes: This was the hardest one to do, but it resulted in some pretty fun conclusions! I’ve decided that putting Voodoom in two egg groups was largely unnecessary, seeing as its allowed movepool is not large at all. Therefore, Humanshape is the group it fits in best with, consisting of mainly Fighting, Dark, and Psychic types. The priority moves give a nice touch to Voodoom flavor-wise, and both are competitive. Instead of giving Voodoom Crunch as a level-up flavor move, it makes more sense that it's a learned egg move. Pursuit allows Voodoom to trap and kill Rotom-A, which greatly helps Togekiss. While beating Starmie and Gengar may seem like a problem, they are not likely to switch, and both can potentially OHKO you anyway (one is designed to out-speed, while the other speed ties at best). Baton Pass creates synergy between Togekiss and Voodoom, which is pretty neat. Fake Out is a handy move than can help Voodoom in the Lead position. Perish Song is a pretty cool move, both competitively and flavor-wise.
Force Palm and Power Gem are both non-VGM, but can be potentially dangerous, which is a good thing. Mimic is simply for flavor, as is Wake-up Slap (getting hurt by voodoo would wake one up from one’s sleep, no?).
Sucker Punch excluded, Pursuit included. For those who are wondering, a 4 Atk Neutral LO Voodoom OHKO’s Starmie and Gengar after SR with Sucker Punch. When the stat pool was created, it was made specifically so that Starmie could get a hit on Voodoom, successfully being a revenge killer. However, with Sucker Punch, Voodoom virtually eliminates its Speed issue and theoretically has access to a 120 BP priority move that OHKO’s things that can potentially counter it. I do not want that on my movepool. In contrast, Pursuit helps with Rotom-A tremendously, while not serving as priority against the faster Starmie (who can OHKO you before you Pursuit) and the equally speedy Gengar (still a 50/50 chance for it to go first). This doesn’t delve away from the concept of Voodoom’s counters, and can even help Togekiss greatly.
Included Ice Beam: This movepool has Ice Beam in it, which to be honest, only adds insurance against Dragonite, Zapdos (somewhat), and Togekiss (somewhat). Everything else is usually hit harder by Dark Pulse or Aura Sphere. Most Grass types survive even a max LO Ice Beam and OHKO Voodoom. Meanwhile, Ice Beam is a free switch-in for things like Suicune and Swampert, which Togekiss loves.
Mean Look excluded, Baton Pass included: Perhaps the hardest decision to make for me. Mean Look is neat individually for Voodoom, but it’s kind of useless after that in terms of helping Togekiss. Meanwhile, Baton Pass is great for Voodoom to escape from counters and switch to and fro with Togekiss, cementing the synergy between the two. The most useful stat Voodoom will pass is Bulk Up, which only benefits Togekiss’ Defense (which helps, but isn’t overpowered).
Included Counter: This is more of a flavor choice, even though it’s a VGM. Voodoom really has better options than to run a Focus Sash Counter set, to be honest. It’s niche, but flavor-wise, it fits.
Thunderwave excluded, Force Palm included: I very much dislike Thunderwave on Voodoom, but I don’t have a problem with moves like Force Palm. They actually make a lot of sense, too.
Perish Song included: Since I don't have Mean Look, Perish Song is an awesome move for Voodoom's flavor, cementing the idea that it dies when the opponent does. It won't be as effective as Mean Look + Perish Song from Mismagius, but as a phazing move, it's pretty neat.
Conclusion
Thanks for looking through my movepool. I hope you enjoyed looking at it as much as I did making it! Voodoom is a really neat CAP, and it’s only fitting that its movepool is unique too.
This would have been a cool sentiment somewhere around four threads ago when Fuzznip posted the Attacking Moves Discussion. If the submitters think something fits flavorwise, they will include it.
In this case however, Needle Arm's "low Base Power" is the same as Aerial Ace, which is a VGM. It also hits one of the pokemon that should at least check Voodoom somewhat, Swampert, for 4x damage. So for this specific move I would put in disallowed. This is especially true because Voodoom can raise its attack, and Needle Arm has general utility against Bulky Waters. File this under "Grass Moves."
This would have been a cool sentiment somewhere around four threads ago when Fuzznip posted the Attacking Moves Discussion. If the submitters think something fits flavorwise, they will include it.
In this case however, Needle Arm's "low Base Power" is the same as Aerial Ace, which is a VGM. It also hits one of the pokemon that should at least check Voodoom somewhat, Swampert, for 4x damage. So for this specific move I would put in disallowed. This is especially true because Voodoom can raise its attack, and Needle Arm has general utility against Bulky Waters. File this under "Grass Moves."
In any case, I'm still filing Needle Arm under "Disallowed Grass Moves." I consider it competitive enough given its targets. 60 BP Grass 30% Flinch, on a mon likely to get para support. That's competitive enough for me.
Download the movepool applet thing from one of the revision threads if you haven't. Its really useful.
So explanation. The Level Up movepool is staged to evolve at level 31, once Voodoll learns Thundershock. Before that Voodoll doesn't learn any actual attacks besides Frustration, which I think is neat cause Voodoll is being poked its entire life; its gonna be pissed off. Endure is really central to that whole idea. Its only enduring. Its idea is that its an unmoving doll dealing damage based on what its dealt. After it evolves the enraged Voodoom, is able and willing to beat the crap out of stuff. Payback, Torment, Subimission, and Beat Up all seam fitting for basic beating. This eventually peaks with Close Combat. Night Slash is supposed to be learnt upon Evolution, and obviously used with the big heart pin. The Electric attacks that Voodoom learns are usually weak. Shock Wave, Thundershock, and Thunder Wave + Zap Cannon represent that usually Voodoom can't focus the Electric power it has well. The Egg move list is relatively barren. Aura Sphere and Sucker Punchare the only real move of consequence there, coming from Lucario obviously. The Egg moves are supposed to be moves that are little better than what Voodoll can usually get, but still not too much more towards full attacking. I didn't think Aura Sphere was fitting to be a Level Up move since its something that the pure of heart would use, something Voodoom is not. There are no real important combos. Aura Sphere cannot be used with any of the other moves though. it is in the Human Shape and Intermediate groups. Level Up+Tutor movepoool is also standard Dark+Standard Fighting with Ice Beam and Blizzard and some Electric attacks.
Most of the moves that were emitted, like Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Power Gem were pretty useless and I ran out of room. Pursuit is the only real, useful move I excluded, and that is because I dislike Pursuit+Sucker Punch on the same Pokemon. I decided that a strong priority is more important than Pursuit.
Oh and DrkSlay, Fake Out is not allowed.
EDIT: That was unintentional. Thanks. :D Changed Thundershock to 30. Added in Egg combos.
EDIT2: Proper format for Deck Knight. People suggested Needle Arm for flaver, but I don't really see how it fits. Yes it has needles in it but Needle Arm are assumes that Voodoms arms is covered with spikes, not simply having one or two in it. I do like Submission though. Sucker Punch, I still do not think is very broken, but I think the general consensus is against it, but I think its a really cool flavor move, so I put it in Egg moves. It is unusable with Aura Sphere.
H Zap Cannon
- Pain Split*
- Endure
- Bide
- Acupressure
7 Bide
15 Acupressure
21 Counter*
21 Magic Coat*
25 Frustration*
30 Thundershock
31 Night Slash*
34 Payback*
41 Submission
48 Torment
51 Beat Up
59 Close Combat*
Issue: Your Voodoom won't learn Night Slash by level-up! Voodoll will learn Thundershock at Lv31 - he will then evolve into Voodoom when he levels up with Thundershock already in his moveset. I.e. Voodoom will be a level higher than Night Slash's learning level, and you will require a Heart Scale to get it.
Before it gets too lost, when you post your movepools I need the Egg Groups your Egg Moves are coming from in order to personally verify any legality concerns.
Issue: Your Voodoom won't learn Night Slash by level-up! Voodoll will learn Thundershock at Lv31 - he will then evolve into Voodoom when he levels up with Thundershock already in his moveset. I.e. Voodoom will be a level higher than Night Slash's learning level, and you will require a Heart Scale to get it.
I don't see anything to wrong with it, since Torterra has to do the same thing with Wood Hammer, Piloswine with Ancientpower (to evolve if you didnt breed Ancientpower onto it), etc.
Also DrkSlay, you missed one combo in your egg moves: Sableye can pass down both Dark Pulse and Power Gem.
all seem like great flavor moves for a Voodoo-themed CAP, and from what I can gather they'd all be valid (Curse is essentially a worse Bulk Up). Seeing as it's more specially-oriented I'm not feeling the flavor behind the physical contact abilities which have been suggested (VGMs aside).
My first thought when creating the moveset for Voodoom was how I can show the damage that a Voodoo doll takes. I wanted the moves in the first 20 levels to try and emphasize the pain Voodoom (Voodoll) has taken at the hands of its enemies, by it being unable to do anything significant to its opponent while it takes damage. The next 10 levels (21-31) were meant to show that Voodoom (Voodoll) is now capable of dealing a good amount of damage to it's opponent at the cost of its own health with some of the moves.
My thought was that when Voodoll evolves into Voodoom it learns the move Charge, which I think fits brilliantly, flavour-wise, with Doug's back-story (a little better than Thundershock) and Volt Absorb. After evolving, Voodoom has now gained the power to fight back against the ones that had harmed it before when it was unable to defend itself. Pain Split symbolizes Voodoo in a single move, and was a must in my opinion, if just for the flavour. It has some competitive usage, but with Voodoom being fairly frail, I don't see it being used very much. Grudge, Payback and Acupressure were added for some flavour though I doubt they will be used very much competitively. Weather Ball is probably one move that won't be seen on a lot of other movepools, if any, and I added it as a Heart Scale move, for Voodoom. I added it because Voodoll was meant to evolve during a thunderstorm so I thought it would be unique enough to fit it, at the cost of a VGM, since it would also give a strong Fire attack when Sunny Day is in affect (even though Sunny Day teams are never seen in OU).
Unfortunately, there are a lot of forced VGMs onto the TM list, but there is still enough room to add some competitive and flavour moves. I chose Stone Edge over Ice Beam as my "Zapdos killing move of choice". I mostly chose Stone Edge over Ice Beam, because HP Ice would still get many of the same kills on the same Pokemon as Ice Beam (Dragonite, Flygon, Gliscor), and because I wouldn't be forced to add Blizzard to my movepool.
Not very many other notable inclusions for TMs, the only ones were Psychic, so special Voodoom won't be set-up bait for the rare Tentacruel. Rain Dance was added for the same reasoning as Weather Ball. Snatch and Torment are two often undervalued moves that could be used prevent attempts to set-up on Voodoom. Earthquake gives Voodoom a better option to use against Jirachi, Metagross and Jolteon.
Move Tutor: Body Slam
Headbutt Ice Punch Icy Wind Low Kick
Metronome
Mimic
Mud Slap
Ominous Wind Pain Split*
Role Play
Snore
Spite* Superpower Vacuum Wave
Total Moves: 15 (64)
Total VGMs: 5 (32)
Most Move Tutor moves are for flavour purposes, however, there are some competitive moves that were added to the list. The two significant competitive moves are Vacuum Wave and Superpower. Superpower is for a physical 120BP STAB attack and is a better option (imo) than Close Combat, if Voodoom is going to be Baton Passing back-and-forth with Togekiss since 'Kiss wouldn't mind the Attack drop that Superpower gives. Vacuum Wave gives Voodoom a STAB priority attack, coming off of a base 105 Sp. Attack. Low Kick is an alternate attack instead of Superpower or Close Combat that doesn't have the stat drops those attacks have, but is weak against a number of opponents. Body Slam is for the 30% chance of paralysis and seemed to fit, seeing that Voodoll is Normal/Dark. Ominous Wind, Mimic and Role Play are all added for flavour, Role Play, being great for showing how voodoo dolls are meant to take the appearance of any person. Icy Wind was added for a competitive reason (though it is unlikely it will see use on Voodoom's common moveset(s)) since most Pokemon that would be switching into Voodoom are likely faster Pokemon switching in on a resistance, but if they switch into an Icy Wind their Speed drops, allowing Voodoom to take them out with the appropriate move.
The are three significant moves in Voodoom's Egg Move List. The first move is Baton Pass, which will allow Togekiss and Voodoom to pass back-and-forth, the boosts they gain with moves like Acupressure and Nasty Plot. Close Combat is another move that can be bred onto Voodoom. I provided it as an option with Superpower since some people would prefer to deal with the negative side effects of one or the other. Lastly, Mach Punch was added to give Voodoom a physical priority move.
Notable Exclusions: Sucker Punch: As many others have said against the inclusion of Sucker Punch into a movepool, there was a reason why the community chose a spread with 110 base Speed, as opposed to the other spread that was 120 base Speed iirc. We chose for Starmie to outspeed and Gengar to tie with Voodoom so giving Sucker Punch to Voodoom goes against (some of) the reasons the voters chose the stat spread. Mean Look: I chose against Mean Look, because I didn't see it being used on many (if any) of Voodoom's moveset(s). So I decided against Mean Look, which left open a move slot for Close Combat. Ice Beam: As I said before in the TM list, it was a choice between Stone Edge and Ice Beam for me, and I chose Stone Edge to hit flyers. HP Ice can also get the same kills that Ice Beam would get (Gliscor, Dragonite, Flygon). Needle Arm: There was really no point of adding Needle Arm onto the movepool. It has no competitive reasoning for being on the movepool (252 SpAttack Aura Sphere does more to Swampert than a 4 Attack Needle Arm), though you could run it on a physical set of Voodoom, but then you are completely shut down by Skarmory. Thunder Wave: Thunder Wave was decided against, since Togekiss could easily throw Thunder Waves around at the opponent, while Voodoom takes advantage of the paralyzed opponents, hitting them hard.
In any case, I'm still filing Needle Arm under "Disallowed Grass Moves." I consider it competitive enough given its targets. 60 BP Grass 30% Flinch, on a mon likely to get para support. That's competitive enough for me.
This is completely nonsensical. I want to put it out there that if I ever wanted a Grass-type move with which to hit Swampert, I would use Hidden Power Grass. Not only does it hit with 10 higher Base Power, but it hits off of the higher base 105 Special Attack stat. As an actual move that might fit into a moveset, you would never use Needle Arm and Hidden Power on the same set, so the argument of "But your Hidden Power should be something else!" is ridiculous. Needle Arm is non-competitive, isn't a VGM for this CAP, and thus is automatically allowed for all intents and purposes. If you are going to disallow it for some obscene reason, I expect you to also disallow ThunderShock and Charge too on identical grounds. "It can KO Gyarados!!" or "It raises your Special Attack!!" are suitable cries to support that.
As I've said last night, there is truly no competitive reasoning behind the banning of Needle Arm. Although I don't have Needle Arm in my movepool (due to my personal distaste of using signature moves, and the fact that it doesn't fit too well in terms of flavor for me....eh I'll get back to that later), your reasoning behind its ban is completely ridiculous
1) "It hits Suicune, Vaporeon, and Swampert!!! Oh, and its easily boostable!!!!!!"
Okay first of all +1 Life Orb Needle Arm doesn't even 2HKO bulky Vaporeon, and it does 37% max to Bold Suicune. Oh right, you allowed Crunch and Low Kick! Low Kick has 25% more power vs Suicune, while Crunch does the same amount of damage to both Vaporeon and Suicune as Needle Arm. Crunch itself has a good 20% chance to 2HKO Vaporeon courtesy of the Defense drop (after a Bulk Up, of course), and thus, your only target is Swampert. Swampert iself is already a shaky switch in because it risks swapping into a Life Orb Aura Sphere from the specially based set (which can 2HKO), and against the Bulk Up set, it can't do a whole lot back due to the Defense boost. If you use Needle Arm on the final slot on the Bulk Up set, you're missing out on many other important moves such as Stone Edge or Taunt. Dusk is right - if you're super desperate to hit Swampert, Hidden Power Grass is already there.
2) "60 BP Grass 30% Flinch, on a mon likely to get para support. That's competitive enough for me."
The only targets for Needle Arm are bulky Waters, and they are most certainly not switching into Togekiss to be paralyzed (adding insult to injury, Swampert is immune to Thunder Wave lol, but it's still not switching into Togekiss). That said, the only time you're going to get bulky Waters paralyzed is if Voodoom uses Thunder Wave itself, and that alone fills up two moveslots by Thunder Wave and Needle Arm, and if you're going to use the "paraflinch argument", then Dark Pulse can accomplish it similarly, only with less chance to flinch but Voodoom has much more SA than its Attack and most bulky Waters have higher Defense and Special Defense.
OH WAIT NEEDLE ARM IS BOOSTABLE BY BULK UP!
So now your first three moveslots is Bulk Up / Thunder Wave / Needle Arm, and you're going to have either Fighting or Dark STAB on the final slot. Congrats! using Fighting STAB gets you walled by Rotom-A, the Pokemon you WANT to beat. Oh and let's not forget how many things wall Needle Arm + Low Kick. Oh, you say you have Dark STAB? Have fun being walled by every Steel and everything else that resists Dark. Now tell me, would you seriously ever consider this set? Face it, Needle Arm is nothing.
The TM list is pockmarked by nearly a dozen required VGMs from Rest to Hyper Beam to Return to Substitute. Besides these required moves, there are a few things of note for this movepool. Voodoom gets all of the relevant Dark-type technical moves, including Torment, Embargo, Fling, Snatch, and Taunt. Voodoom picks up all relevant Fighting-type moves in Brick Break, Focus Punch, and Focus Blast. All moves that are required for Close Combat in the movepool are present too, which adds Stone Edge, Rock Slide, and Earthquake. I gave Voodoom Shadow Ball so that it could enjoy perfect type coverage in two moves at the cost of losing STAB on one of them (also because it makes sense). Additionally, you'll find that I maintained Payback on Voodoom because I think it is one of the most logical moves for him. All that pain you gave him? Yeah, time for some payback. Dark Pulse rounds out the TM list with his mandatory STAB attack of the Dark-type.
Level-Up List
P ThunderShock
– Acupressure
– Pound
– Foresight
– Beat Up
5 Foresight
8 Beat Up
13 Twineedle
17 Karate Chop
22 Needle Arm
26 Faint Attack
30 Pin Missile
34 Night Slash
39 Pain Split
43 Superpower
48 Substitute
60 Memento
Part of Voodoom's story, as written by DougJustDoug, included ThunderShock as the mode for evolution. For that reason, ThunderShock is a pre-evolution move for Voodoom. I had considered other moves in this spot, but I feel that once Voodoom's pre-evolution has successfully gained the ability to control electricity in some fashion, as demonstrated by the possession of ThunderShock, then it can evolve and harness it with Volt Absorb and Lightningrod. The rest of the level-up movepool is my having a complete blast with flavor moves and how Voodoom would use them. Foresight and Beat Up are both learned by the pre-evolution, therefore they are learned again by Voodoom. This is what allows the level-up movepool to have 17 moves when the normal maximum is 16. (See Mamoswine's movepool for reference)
As for the explanations, Foresight and Beat Up are typical flavor moves, things that Voodoom can use to ensure that nothing escapes his vindication. (And call help from it's allies!) Needle Arm is an excellent flavor move where Voodoom stabs his arm with his big needle and then arm whacks the opponent, Twineedle is where he the needle through his chest and stabs twice with it, and Pin Missile is where he throws the many pins in his body at the opponent in rapid succession. I gave Voodoom Night Slash instead of Crunch because Voodoom's mouth is sewn shut and Night Slash makes sense with that huge needle acting as an ad hoc sword. Pain Split is perhaps Voodoom's signature move in sharing his agony with others, while Substitute makes perfect sense as a flavor move given that Voodoom himself is a doll! Superpower is something a strongth Pokemon like Voodoom would get in his level-up list, and Memento is his last ditch attack to wither his foe away if Voodoom's going to be KOed anyway.
I want to draw special attention to the egg moves list for my movepool. I had a unique story in mind when I came up with this movepool, one that nodded to the concept in, what I feel, is a very unique way. Many of the coolest and most unique moves that Voodoom gets come from none other than Togekiss by breeding. Such critically important moves as Aura Sphere and Baton Pass, coupled with rare moves like Follow Me and Psycho Shift, make Togekiss one of the prime breeding partners for Voodoom. Of course, because one of my egg groups is Ground, there are no move illegalities through Smeargle.
Other than the Togekiss nod, typical Dark-type Pokemon breeding moves in Beat Up, Spite, and Pursuit make a showing. Close Combat makes its appearance in the egg moves from Infernape and Primeape, another excellent breeding source.
Move Tutor List
Gravity
Headbutt
Knock Off
Low Kick
Mimic
Mud-Slap
Ominous Wind
Pain Split
Role Play
Rollout
Snore
Spite
Superpower
Vacuum Wave
Move tutor lists tend to be where a movepool is rounded out, but this list actually played a significant role in my movepool at large. You'll notice that I've doubled up Pain Split and Superpower in here and Level-Up, something that would and does happen in actual movepools. Gravity is one of my favorite moves here, as with it, Voodoom can actually use Focus Blast with 91% accuracy and do some serious damage. Knock Off is a mandatory flavor and technical Dark-type move, as Low Kick is with the Fighting-type. Rollout is hilarious because I could see that doll rolling around to do damage, while Role Play and Mimic make absolute sense given that this is a voodoo doll. Ominous Wind balances the presence of Shadow Ball on the movepool, while Vacuum Wave is the priority move of choice that all Voodoom should have.
Conclusion:
Flavor played an enormous role in my movepool. Voodoom is such a rich artistic concept for flavor in the Pokeworld, as you can probably see by my movepool having it everywhere. A lot of people might have reservations about Twineedle and Needle Arm, as they are signature moves, but I believe that if Voodoom were to actually exist in the Pokemon game, these signature moves would be given to him for how perfectly they match the design. Also, some people might call themselves "purists" about how a move with a description that uses thorns could not be allowed on a Pokemon with literal needles. There exist a lot of Pokemon that do not adhere to move descriptions, such as Crawdaunt using his nonexistent 'sharp fangs' for Crunch. I hope that many of you readers see what I am saying here and agree with me.
Additionally, you'll notice that I chose to omit Ice Beam/Blizzard from my movepool. There are many reasons for this, the first of which is flavor. It doesn't make sense for Voodoom to have the move. Competitively, Ice Beam is only necessary to 2HKO Specially Defensive Zapdos. Hidden Power Ice is sufficient to 2HKO Physically Defensive Zapdos, while Taunt is great to stop it from Roosting and healing itself up as you are immune to its primary STAB attack and force it to use the much-weaker Heat Wave. If it decides to use Drill Peck, it has already sacrificed much in the way of its coverage and EV/nature combination, so that is a very fair trade. Hidden Power Ice is also sufficient to OHKO even 252/252 Dragonite after Stealth Rock, so there's no sense worrying about him. For these reasons, I felt that Ice Beam was not necessary and would only detract from my overall movepool.
I hope that my explanations have been thorough and easy to follow. In case you're curious how all of those numbers above actually add up and come to the totals I present in the beginning of the submission, I encourage you to look at my movepool spreadsheet that is attached below. It shows and documents all of the requirements being met by the movepool as well as any equivalent VGMs or repeated moves.
I'm posting this for anyone reading some of the movepools submitted, who may get an incorrect impression of the rules regarding movepool and art. So, I'll state this very clearly:
The artist of a CAP design has NO say in the definition of a pokemon's movepool -- flavor or competitive moves. In fact, the artist has no say in ANY other aspect of a CAP pokemon, other than the art itself.
Yes, I wrote a backstory for my design, and I specifically included the mention of a pre-evolution that evolves by leveling up with an electric move. It was all part of my artistic inspiration and justification for the art design and the electric-based abilities we gave Voodoom. Several people enjoyed the backstory, and many movepool creators here have chosen to incorporate that into their movepool submissions. I'm flattered that they have chosen to do that.
But, please remember that the movepool creators have COMPLETE control over all facets of their movepool, except for the restrictions imposed by the process or the TL. In fact, a big part of the creative aspects of making a movepool, are the flavor moves and backstory that movepool creators add behind their movepools. If the creators choose to use or expand on the flavor information that an artist gives for a design, or the flavor information given by anyone else during the CAP process -- that is at the sole discretion of the movepool creator.
And, just to reaffirm what Jibaku posted -- I picked ThunderShock as the level-up evolution move without a lot of forethought. The evolution story revolves around a thunderstorm, and Voodoll being struck by lightning. My first impulse was to use Thunderbolt as the evolution move, but Tbolt is a very powerful move and seemed a bit too much for an NFE pokemon to get. On top of that, I am keenly aware of CAP movepool restrictions and I really didn't want to get into competitive debates as to whether Tbolt was good or bad for CAP 11. Artists have enough things to worry about when trying to make everyone happy, the last thing I needed was people complaining about a move in my backstory. So, I picked the first non-competitive electric move that came to mind -- ThunderShock. The doll was getting shocked by lightning, so the name fit and I went with it. I still think it fits nicely. But, after hearing Jibaku's explanation that the pokemon is really absorbing electricity, not generating it -- that makes sense too. And although Jibaku certainly does not need my approval to make his movepool -- I think he has a great flavor twist on the design and story.
TL;DR summary: Movepool flavor is entirely up to the movepool creators. Judge them on their own merits, not based on anything the artist mentions in their design submission.
Ehh, I guess I'll edit in an explanation later - here's the movepool, and notable exclusions.
Total Move Count: 71 Total Very Good Move Count: 32
aaa* = VGM
aaa (r) = Repeat
Level-up moves
Total Moves: 9 Move Repeats: 2 (Dark Pulse, Helping Hand) Very Good Moves: 4 (1 repeat)
Code:
- Zap Cannon
5. Charge
10. Tackle
13. Pin Missile
21. Needle Arm
28. Slash
35. Dark Pulse* (r)
37. Pursuit*
43. Helping Hand (r)
49. Night Slash*
52. Acupressure
60. Close Combat*
Nice simple moveset. Dark Pulse and Helping Hand are also found as TMs or Move Tutor moves. As for unique VGMs, here are only two - Close Combat and Night Slash, our two physical STAB options. Close Combat is a given - gets rid of Blissey and Snorlax, a no-brainer. Night Slash instead of Crunch because I have a deep dislike of Bulk Up (and the flavour bit too, the sword needle slash is a nice idea, hence the inclusion of Slash as well). Accupressure, Needle Arm (nobody is going to use it, DK), and Pin Missile are flavour for needle-type stuff, and Charge and Zap Cannon for the electricity part. Zap Cannon is my "evolution move", hence why it is a lv.1 move (clearly a higher levelup move for mini-doom). Aside from that, nothing out of the ordinary here.
TMs and HMs
Total Moves: 42 Move Repeats: 1 (Dark Pulse) Very Good Moves: 20
Oh boy. Right, competitively speaking, Focus Punch, Toxic, Bulk Up, Hidden Power, Taunt, Hyper Beam, Protect, Return, Brick Break, Facade, Rest, Focus Blast, Sleep Talk and Substitute are all required moves by virtue of typing or just simply required full stop, apparently. I know I hate Taunt and Bulk Up with a vengeance, but they're required moves and that's the end of it. Then, Earthquake and Stone Edge are required because Close Combat is in the movepool... and Rock Slide is required because Stone Edge is in the movepool... all a rich tapestry. Lastly, we have Payback, Thunder Wave, and Dark Pulse as the only 3 competitive moves that aren't forcefully on the TM movepool by requirement. Payback is nice for flavour (as in, payback + voodoo doll go together well), Thunder Wave is also nice for flavour and gives Voodoom a paralysis option, which helps with Togekiss's 4MSS, as explained in the discussion thread. Dark Pulse is a repeated move from the Level-Up list, and is Voodoom's main source of Dark-type STAB.
Move Tutor moves
Total Moves: 12 Move Repeats: 1 (Helping Hand) Very Good Moves: 5
Quite a few VGMs here. Vacuum Wave is nice priority for Voodoom to use against stuff like weakened Scarf Tyranitar and Weavile that try to be clever (and we don't want the weasel messing up the core). Superpower and Knock Off are some flavour moves to go with the Dark/Fighting typing (and I can't really see either of them being too useful, so...). Pain Split I don't see being too useful given Voodoom's high HP, but each to his own, and if you want recovery (or to screw with Vaporeon) it's always there. Ancientpower and Rollout are random flavour, Spite and Ominous Wind for slightly more obvious reasons, and Magnet Rise is pretty much the only Electric-type flavour I could find. Except for all the other moves I found.
Plenty illegal but Aura Sphere is pretty much the only move to care about here, the rest are just filler. Except maybe Mach Punch, but then that would be more useful on a fully physical set - anywhere else I'd go for Vacuum Wave. Baton Pass is there if you want it (though I can't imagine what you'd be passing) and Follow Me can be useful for doubles play. Maybe.
Total Move Count: 71 Total Very Good Move Count: 32
Notable moves excluded:
Offensive:
Ice Beam - I made my decision to exclude this from the final movepool and I'm sticking by it. I absolutely and to all points condemn this move. Realistically speaking it isn't all that helpful - It does a better job on Dragonite, Zapdos that don't invest defensively, and ironically Togekiss. All of these, however, either can win regardless of Ice Beam or are beaten by HP Ice. However, I really want bulky Grass-types - that is to say, Shaymin and Roserade - to act as viable counters without being crippled. Ice Beam allows Voodoom to either bypass them or render them useless for the remainder of the battle. Secondly, on power considerations - I would prefer that Voodoom rely more on Hidden Power for coverage, as I think Ice Beam would afford it too much coverage. Deck Knight has just stated that Needle Arm, of all things, be banned as a weapon against Swampert. What about a nice Hidden Power Grass? If we are forced to run HP Ice, it lowers Voodoom's capability to run an Electric- or Grass-type move, which is something I would like to see. I think that's everything. Blizzard - See above. Ice Punch - See above again but to a lesser and much less useful extent. Psychic - Similar reasons to Ice Beam. Flavour considerations aside, I want Roserade and Tentacruel to remain good checks, which is made more difficult by the presence of Psychic. Furthermore, I also want Heracross and Toxicroak to be decent checks too, which is easier when they are untouchable. Sucker Punch - It has only situational use and when it does turn up it has the potential to really screw up an opposing team. You may say this is a good thing, but Voodoom is already very powerful. I don't want to see it become unpredictable as well. Double-Edge - Completely pointless and I'm honestly quite strapped for space on this movepool. I can't really see anybody seriously using this so I don't think anybody will mind me removing it. Crunch - If you want a Dark STAB, Night Slash is there. Aside from that, rejected a) on flavour grounds and b) because I hate every last one of you that voted to include Bulk Up (nah but seriously I hate that move) so "every little helps" (oh and this also means I don't have to have Roar on the movepool). Low Kick - I still don't like Bulk Up, so I'm getting rid of the semi-reliable and powerful option so you are forced to use Close Combat or Superpower, and render the boosts pointless, or else use Brick Break and Night Slash and use base 70 attacks from a base 85 Attack stat (and hence not threaten anything) Power Gem - Pointless, redundant, unnecessary. Pick your adjective and attach. Shadow Sneak - I never saw this come up in the thread... but I still don't like it. I want to make the priority side of things slightly more calm, so for the same reasons as Sucker Punch, I'm not going to include it.
Non-offensive:
Block/Mean Look - Gimmicky at best and not particularly worthy of a slot - not really even flavour material. As I've included Baton Pass, I can't include this (and I dislike screwing with egg moves). Body Slam - Pointless Counter - Not worth a packed movepool Force Palm - See above Glare - Who would use this over Thunder Wave Gravity - Can't really see the point tbh Imprison - Who the hell came up with all these gimmicks Pain Split - High HP makes this a poor recovery option Psych Up - Who would Psych Up on a +2 Lucario seriously Psycho Shift - I'd honestly rather run Thunder Wave here and help the team rather than such a random move. Latias could do it well because of its survivability; Voodoom has nothing like that.
By the way guys, you could always use Submission in your movepools. Think about it: It does recoil damage (sticking a pin in Voodoom,) to hit your enemy, and it's a Fighting-type move. I actually made a topic in CAP Kitchen about non-competitive moves for Voodoom, browse for ideas.
[b]Move Tutors[/b]
12 Moves
5 Very Good Moves
[b]Knock Off
Vacuum Wave
Superpower
Pain split
Low Kick[/b]
Icy Wind
Ominous Wind
Last Resort
Spite
Snore
Mud-slap
Role Play
Code:
[b]Level Up[/b]
14 moves (1 repeat)
4 Very Good Moves
HS Nature Power
-- Covet
[b]05 Pursuit[/b]
08 Rage
13 Acupressure
17 Focus Energy
[b]19 Spark[/b]
23 Revenge
[b]28 Night Slash[/b]
32 Disable
37 Imprison
43 Spite
49 Double-Edge
[b]56 Memento[/b]
Code:
[b]Egg Moves : Humanshape[/b]
7 Moves (1 repeats)
2 Very Good Moves
[b]Baton Pass[/b] (Mr. Mime, Lopunny, Volbeat*)
[b]Aura Sphere[/b] (Lucario)
Punishment (Infernape)
Pin Missile (Cacturne)
Needle Arm (Cacturne)
Grudge (Gardevoir*, Gallade*)
Last Resort (tutor)
* means the father gets it as an egg move.
Legal Combinations
Pin Missile + Needle Arm + Last Resort
Any single move + Last Resort
Notably Illegal Combinations
Aura Sphere + Baton Pass
Type-Move required (9)
Focus Punch
Bulk Up
Taunt
Brick Break
Focus Blast
Payback
Dark Pulse
Rock Slide
Vacuum Wave
Ice Beam and Blizzard -- These moves are very important for taking down Zapdos, who gives the combo a large amount of trouble. We specifically said Zapdos should not counter the duo, and this makes sure that that is not the case.
Aura Sphere -- Fail Blast is unacceptable as our only special Fighting STAB. Aura Sphere is pretty much the only attack available, so it must do. If anyone is concerned about it being overpowered, you can take solace in the fact it's illegal with Baton Pass.
Sucker Punch -- It's been said before, but Sucker Punch is a bit too dangerous of a weapon against Starmie and Gengar. 252spd/252spa/4atk LO Voodoom with Dark Pulse/Aura Sphere/Superpower/Sucker Punch would be very potent.
Close Combat -- OK, this is the big one. My Voodoom movepool omits Close Combat and Stone Edge. The problem is that Close Combat/Aura Sphere/Ice Beam/Dark Pulse rips through a little too much for my tastes. Superpower breaks through Blissey just fine, but it takes a little bit of the edge off a specially-based mixed set like the above.
Stone Edge -- Bleh, not needed. Physical Voodoom is not going to work, and you're far better off hitting Zapdos with a move that isn't 80% accurate with 4PP.
The main flavor consideration is the level-up pool, which is designed to follow the stages of someone getting revenge. It begins with Covet and Pursuit, which then turn to Rage. They start with sticking needles in a doll, but it's not enough. This is when Voodoll learns Spark, and evolves into Voodoom after leveling up with Spark in its moveset (earliest possible time is level 20). The next moves, Revenge, Night Slash, Disable, and Imprison are the person carrying out their revenge. But, ultimately, like all such stories, the vengeful person destroys himself in this quest, and the movepool ends with Spite, Double-Edge, and finally, Memento.
Other flavor moves also highlight Voodoom's dark nature. Grudge, Punishment, and Torment go along with the theme of the level up moves above. Embargo, Fling, Thief, and Snatch generally go along with the theme of the Dark type.
The rest of the flavor moves are related to Voodoom's voodoo powers. Nature Power, Shadow Ball, Dream Eater, Ominous Wind, and Icy Wind nicely convey a supernatural vibe to the moveset. Icy Wind also complements Ice Beam and Blizzard.
Lastly, Needle Arm and Pin Missle are included for the obvious reasons. Also, as an added bonus, Voodoom is compatible with Voodoll's type-move requirements.
EDIT1: Removed Earth Power from tutors and Pain Split from Egg Moves. Pain Split was removed because all potential fathers for it learn it by tutor, which I don't like. It's still in the movepool, of course, in the tutors section. Earth Power was removed for the more obvious reason of being illegal.
I guess I'm going to submit my movepool, even though most of the movepools here are pretty similar anyways. I tried to put a lot of flavor into mine, while still remaining competitive. While the CAP motto is always competitive > flavor, I made a couple competitive decisions based much moreso off of flavor than anything else (see: lack of Ice Beam and Crunch). For the most part I tried to cut out unnecessary competitive moves, because it is my firm belief that all this CAP should be doing is helping out Togekiss in some way, and the more extra options we give it, the less likely it is to deviate from the concept.
Level Up:
Total Level Up moves: 14
Total VGMs: 3
---
- Tackle
- Bide
- Endure
6: Beat Up
9: Punishment
12: Acupressure
18: Pin Missile
21: Slash
24: Substitute
30: Thundershock
35: Revenge
41: Night Slash
47: Grudge
58: Close Combat
The Level Up list is fairly basic, but I tried to fill it with flavor. Bide and Endure are pretty cute moves for a voodoo doll do have, as are Punishment and Beat Up. Acupressure and Pin Missile are fairly obvious flavor moves. It learns Slash at level 21, and in my head this is while it is still Voodoll (obviously it uses the pins/needle to slash). Once it gains Thundershock at level 30, I imagine Voodoll evolving into Voodoom, similar to all evolutions that take place upon learning a move. It soon gains Revenge (its first Fighting-type move), to show that there's no more fucking around with this guy. Night Slash is a continuation of Slash, really, while Grudge is another good flavor move. It finally learns Close Combat at level 58, showing it has mastered its Fighting-type abilities
*Endure and Substitute are already moves from the Level Up list.
** Return is a VGM equivalent to Frustration, so it is not counted.
Most of the TMs were things I was forced to include. Earthquake and Stone Edge, and Rock Slide all were forced in once I selected Close Combat as a wanted move. I gave it Torment, Payback, Thief, Snatch, Embargo, Fling, etc for flavor, as well as moves like False Swipe, Safeguard, Drain Punch, Rock Climb, etc also for flavor reasons. Thunder Wave fit in well both competitively and flavor-wise, so I included it.
I put in Flash so Voodoom could get me through Dark Cave and Rock Tunnel.
Tutor:
Total Tutor Moves: 13
Total VGMs: 6
--- Ice Punch Sucker Punch Vacuum Wave
Snore
Spite
Mud-Slap
Headbutt Pain Split Magic Coat
String Shot
Role Play Counter
Mimic
Move Tutor choices were difficult, and I had to cut many of them to stay at 75 moves. Many choices are purely flavor, most specifically Spite, Magic Coat, Pain Split, String Shot (I thought this was clever!), Role Play, and Mimic. I threw in Ice Punch because it already got Stone Edge and Rock Slide anyways, and HP [Ice] is a much better option regardless. Vaccuum Wave was necessary, as was Snore and Mud-Slap.
I was very on the fence about Sucker Punch. Many people were saying that Starmie and Gengar should check Voodoom, but I disagree. Voodoom has plenty of checks already, and I really dislike offensive Starmie just having its way with this core, so I included Sucker Punch. It's off the weak Attack stat anyways, so it's really not very threatening.
Probably the worst illegality here is that Aura Sphere and Pursuit are illegal together, which isn't that bad.
The Egg moves really were the finishing touch on my movepool. Baton Pass and Aura Sphere are very stand-out here, and for good reason. The rest of the moves are, once again, flavor. Force Palm went very well with Aura Sphere. Cotton Spore I found cute, and I think a voodoo doll using Psycho Shift is very flavorful. Pursuit is a decent competitive move, though honestly not so much on Voodoom.
My movepool purposefully doesn't have too many competitive moves that aren't Fighting- or Dark-type. I didn't want Voodoom becoming too unpredictable, and I also wanted to ensure that it would have plenty of viable checks and switch ins. I'm not too worried about making my movepool so sparce the CAP is actually lacklustre... because in my eyes that would actually be a good thing!
On top of that, some moves that many other movepools do have, mine does not. Crunch is not present because.... Voodoom's mouth is shut. I cannot imagine Voodoom using Ice Beam (or for that matter Blizzard), so I excluded it. HP [Ice] is almost as good anyways.
Flavor-wise, my movepool does not have Twineedle or Needle Arm. Both of these moves are signature moves, so I was hesitant to include them, but these are not the only reasons I did not. For one, Voodoom only has one "needle", so Twineedle actually doesn't make all that much sense (EDIT- RD brought up a good counter-argument to this on #cap (in that with Twineedle Voodoom just stabs the enemy with the needle twice), bringing reasoning down to just "I'm hesitant to put in a signatute move and also I'm out of room :("). As far as Needle Arm is concerned, if you read the description for Needle Arm, it doesn't make that much sense on Voodoom.
I have already been over why I included Sucker Punch, but I'll just re-iterate that it's mostly because I think LO Starmie is good enough as is, and doesn't need to beat this core automatically.
Total Moves = 14 + 42 + 13 + 6 =75 Total VGMs =3 + 20 + 6 + 4=33
Since Needle Arm seems to enjoy broad support for flavor reasons and isn't inherently overpowered, I have reconsidered and it is now Allowed. Understand though that my initial basis for denial was not that Needle Arm is particularly overpowering, but rather that it is comparable to a move I already disallowed despite that move's overall competitive shortfalls: Thunderpunch. Furthermore it would act as a "free move" in anyone's movepool despite giving Voodoom a somewhat viable coverage option. Voodoom and Togekiss are not going to be the only Pokemon on a team and so there may indeed be situations where paraysis can be assumed on bulky waters if either Togekiss nor Voodoom used it, or indeed in a movepool with Force Palm, freeing up that final slot for a Dark-typed attack.
The snide attacks about it are not appreciated, by the way. "Nobody will use it" is a load of bull, and anyone whose ever stated "gimmick CB" anywhere knows it. People run HP Fire just for Scizor and HP Grass just for Swampert on certain Pokemon. Maybe "good players" won't, but "good players" is not synonymous with the entire population.
And I will personally laugh my ass off at someone who gets flinchaxed to death by CB Needle Arm. ;)
Earth Power is not allowed. It would be a competitive move for Voodoom and was not brought up during the Attacking Moves phaze. While there are parallels between the Close Combat vs. Earthquake and Aura Sphere vs. Earth Power discussion in that thread, the difference in super-effective Base Power and the useful additional effect lead me to exclude it. It would not be right to retroactively allow coverage options not previously discussed.
I will be perusing through the movepools over the course of the night and we'll update with my initial impressions.
Movepool citiques:
I just want to say that this is a new movepool process and we developed it for the specific purposes of enhancing the shortcuts people use to mazimize their movepool utility. Even if I personally don't mind the decisions made by the movepool creator, I am going to enforce the new rules.
Jibaku:
Magic Coat is a VGM, so you're one over the limit. You counted Earthquake correctly but don't have an * next to it, which I presume is your tracking mechanism for VGMs. You'll have to scrap either Magic Coat or another VGM.
If you really want Curse on there, technically speaking, Force Palm isn't a VGM, and has the same effect as Body Slam. If you make the switch then you can either keep Magic Coat or add Curse and remove Magic Coat or another VGM.
Leman:
While the screenshot is helpful, please post your movepool in the format requested (e.g. sections for Level-Up, Egg Moves, TM/HMs, Tutors with running physical counts).
Danmantican:
Earth Power is not allowed.
Ice Punch and Hyper Beam are VGMs, so your actual count is 37 VGMs.
So simply remove Earth Power and find another VGM to remove and you're legal. Since you're using Weather Ball you also might want to consider finding a place for Rain Dance (it is a VGM so you'll have to replace another VGM with it), but that's after you take care of the legal issues above.
DrkSlay:
Sunny Day is a Type-Move requirement (for both types)
Gravity is a VGM
Blizzard is a Move-Move requirement with Ice Beam.
So you'll need to replace at least one move for Sunny Day, and if you want Ice Beam you'll need to either add Blizzard by replacing another VGM or remove Ice Beam.
If you remove Ice Beam, Gravity can stay. If you don't then you must find two VGMs to remove in order to include both Gravity and the M-M required Blizzard.
Rising_Dusk:
Everything is legal here.
bugmaniacbob:
No legality issues.
petrie911:
Earth Power is not allowed. Otherwise your submission is legal.
