CAP 11 CAP 11 - Stat Spread Submissions

[Zystral]

Follow on to Jibaku's post.

All Offensive calcs assume Hasty nature unless noted otherwise.

All Calcs assume Life Orb unless noted otherwise
252 SpA Pokemon Aura Sphere

vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Blissey : 34.5% - 40.6%
vs. 252/92 Calm Leftovers Empoleon : 71% - 83.9%
vs. 248/204 Modest Leftovers Heatran : 66% - 77.9%
vs. 0/4 Naive Choice Scarf Heatran : 104% - 122.6%
vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon : 61.8% - 72.8%
vs. 0/4 Adamant Leftovers Kingdra : 57% - 67.4%
vs. 0/4 Adamant Life Orb Lucario : 150.2% - 177.9%
vs. Naive Leftovers Magnezone : 138.8% - 163%
vs. Jolly Choice Band Mamoswine : 133% - 156.8%
vs. 248/0 Adamant Choice Band Scizor : 56% - 66.5%
vs. 168/220 Careful Leftovers Snorlax : 44.1% - 52.5%
vs. 252/0 Relaxed Leftovers Swampert : 43.1% - 50.7%
vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Tyranitar : 187.1% - 221.1%
vs. 40/0 Jolly Choice Band Weavile : 251.5% - 296.9%
vs. 252/0 Timid Life Orb CAP11 : 89.8% - 105.9%

252 SpA Pokemon +2 Aura Sphere

vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Blissey : 68.9% - 81%
vs. 252/92 Calm Leftovers Empoleon : 140.9% - 166.1%
vs. 248/204 Modest Leftovers Heatran : 130.9% - 154.3%
vs. 0/4 Naive Choice Scarf Heatran : 206.8% - 244%
vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon : 122.4% - 144.5%
vs. 0/4 Adamant Leftovers Kingdra : 113.7% - 134.4%
vs. 0/4 Adamant Life Orb Lucario : 301.8% - 356.6%
vs. Naive Leftovers Magnezone : 276.2% - 325.3%
vs. Jolly Choice Band Mamoswine : 266.5% - 314.1%
vs. 248/0 Adamant Choice Band Scizor : 111.4% - 131.2%
vs. 168/220 Careful Leftovers Snorlax : 87.5% - 103.8%
vs. 252/0 Relaxed Leftovers Swampert : 86.1% - 101.7%
vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Tyranitar : 371.9% - 438.6%
vs. 40/0 Jolly Choice Band Weavile : 500.3% - 591.1%
vs. 252/0 Timid Life Orb CAP11 : 178.1% - 210.2%

4 Atk Pokemon Close Combat

vs. 252/252 Bold Leftovers Blissey : 71.4% - 84%
vs. 168/120 Careful Leftovers Snorlax : 67.2% - 79.1%
vs. 252/252 Relaxed Leftovers Swampert : 26.7% - 31.4%

252 Atk Pokemon Close Combat

vs. 252/252 Bold Leftovers Blissey : 93.3% - 110.1%
vs. 252/160 Calm Leftovers Empoleon : 92.5% - 109.7%
vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon : 102.6% - 120.6%
vs. Adamant Leftovers Kingdra : 66.3% - 78.4%
vs. Adamant Life Orb Lucario : 175.8% - 207.8%
vs. Naive Leftovers Magnezone : 117.4% - 138.8%
vs. 0/4 Jolly Choice Band Mamoswine : 121.9% - 144.6%
vs. 248/0 Adamant Choice Band Scizor : 53.6% - 63%
vs. 168/120 Careful Leftovers Snorlax : 88.3% - 104.2%
vs. 252/252 Relaxed Leftovers Swampert : 35.6% - 41.8%

4 Atk Pokemon Sucker Punch

vs. 252/0 Jolly Light Clay Azelf : 71.8% - 84.7%
vs. 252/220 Bold Leftovers Celebi : 34.2% - 40.6%
vs. 252/228 Impish Leftovers Dusknoir : 38.8% - 45.6%
vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Gengar : 107.6% - 126.7%
vs. 252/240 Bold Leftovers Starmie : 46.9% - 56.2%

252 Atk Pokemon Sucker Punch

vs. 252/0 Jolly Light Clay Azelf : 93.2% - 110.2%
vs. 252/220 Bold Leftovers Celebi : 45% - 53.5%
vs. 252/228 Impish Leftovers Dusknoir : 49.7% - 59.2%
vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Gengar : 142% - 167.2%
vs. 252/240 Bold Leftovers Starmie : 61.7% - 72.8%

252 SpA Pokemon Dark Pulse

vs. 252/4 Jolly Light Clay Azelf : 106.8% - 126%
vs. 252/92 Sassy Leftovers Bronzong : 30.8% - 36.7%
vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Celebi : 71.3% - 83.7%
vs. 252/0 Impish Leftovers Dusknoir : 74.1% - 88.4%
vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Gengar : 138.2% - 163.4%
vs. 252/0 Timid Leftovers Jirachi : 35.6% - 41.6%
vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Rotom-C : 88.8% - 104.6%
vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Starmie : 100% - 118.5%

252 SpA Hasty Life Orb Pokemon +2 Dark Pulse

vs. 252/4 Jolly Light Clay Azelf : 213.6% - 251.4%
vs. 252/92 Sassy Leftovers Bronzong : 62.1% - 72.8%
vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Celebi : 140.1% - 165.3%
vs. 252/0 Impish Leftovers Dusknoir : 149% - 175.5%
vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Gengar : 274.8% - 323.7%
vs. 252/0 Timid Leftovers Jirachi : 69.8% - 82.7%
vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Rotom-C : 175.7% - 207.2%
vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Starmie : 200.6% - 237%

252 SpA Pokemon (70bp Ice Special)

vs. 208/48 Jolly Leftovers Aerodactyl : 56.1% - 66.3%
vs. 12/0 Adamant Toxic Orb Breloom : 94.7% - 112.1%
vs. 252/212 Careful Leftovers Dragonite : 64.2% - 76.7%
vs. 252/0 Timid Leftovers Flygon : 109.9% - 129.7%
vs. 252/196 Jolly Yache Berry Gliscor : 46.9% - 55.4%
vs. 252/88 Impish Leftovers Hippowdon : 46.2% - 54.8%
vs. 0/4 Timid Leftovers Roserade : 60.5% - 72%
vs. 252/0 Timid Leftovers Togekiss : 39.6% - 47.1%
vs. 248/228 Calm Leftovers Zapdos : 34.5% - 40.7%

252 SpA Pokemon +2 (70bp Ice Special)

vs. 208/48 Jolly Leftovers Aerodactyl : 111.6% - 131.4%
vs. 12/0 Adamant Toxic Orb Breloom : 189.4% - 223.5%
vs. 252/212 Careful Leftovers Dragonite : 127.5% - 150.3%
vs. 252/0 Timid Leftovers Flygon : 218.7% - 258.2%
vs. 252/196 Jolly Yache Berry Gliscor : 93.8% - 110.7%
vs. 252/88 Impish Leftovers Hippowdon : 91.9% - 108.6%
vs. 0/4 Timid Leftovers Roserade : 121.1% - 143.3%
vs. 252/0 Timid Leftovers Togekiss : 78.6% - 93%
vs. 248/228 Calm Leftovers Zapdos : 67.9% - 80.4%

All Defensive calcs assume Timid/Jolly unless noted otherwise.

4/0/0 Life Orb Pokemon

vs. 252 Timid Choice Specs Azelf Flamethrower : 50.6% - 59.6%
vs. Bold Leftovers Blissey Flamethrower : 17.9% - 21.5%
vs. 244 Modest Life Orb Celebi Leaf Storm : 90.4% - 106.7%
vs. 196 Rash Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor : 86.9% - 102.2%
vs. 252 Mild Expert Belt Electivire Thunderbolt : 46.2% - 54.2%
vs. 252 Timid Life Orb Gengar Thunderbolt : 45.2% - 53.2%
vs. 252 Naive Choice Scarf Heatran Fire Blast : 65.7% - 77.9%
vs. 252 Timid Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast : 73.1% - 85.9%
vs. 80 Timid Leftovers Jirachi Thunderbolt : 25% - 29.5%
vs. 252 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt : 69.2% - 81.7%
vs. 240 Naughty Life Orb Kingdra Draco Meteor : 79.2% - 93.6%
vs. 252 Naive Leftovers Magnezone Thunderbolt : 51.9% - 61.5%
vs. 252 Timid Focus Sash Roserade Leaf Storm : 74.4% - 87.8%
vs. 252 Timid Choice Scarf Rotom-C Thunderbolt : 45.2% - 53.2%
vs. 252 Timid Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt : 37.8% - 44.6%
vs. 252 Timid Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump : 71.2% - 84%
vs. 152 Modest Leftovers Togekiss Air Slash : 79.5% - 94.2%
vs. 252 Timid Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt : 65.7% - 77.9%

252/0/0 Life Orb Pokemon

vs. 252 Timid Choice Specs Azelf Flamethrower : 42.2% - 49.7%
vs. Bold Leftovers Blissey Flamethrower : 15% - 17.9%
vs. 244 Modest Life Orb Celebi Leaf Storm : 75.4% - 89%
vs. 196 Rash Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor : 72.5% - 85.3%
vs. 252 Mild Expert Belt Electivire Thunderbolt : 38.5% - 45.2%
vs. 252 Timid Life Orb Gengar Thunderbolt : 37.7% - 44.4%
vs. 252 Naive Choice Scarf Heatran Fire Blast : 54.8% - 65%
vs. 252 Timid Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast : 61% - 71.7%
vs. 80 Timid Leftovers Jirachi Thunderbolt : 20.9% - 24.6%
vs. 252 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt : 57.8% - 68.2%
vs. 240 Naughty Life Orb Kingdra Draco Meteor : 66% - 78.1%
vs. 252 Naive Leftovers Magnezone Thunderbolt : 43.3% - 51.3%
vs. 252 Timid Focus Sash Roserade Leaf Storm : 62% - 73.3%
vs. 252 Timid Choice Scarf Rotom-C Thunderbolt : 37.7% - 44.4%
vs. 252 Timid Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt : 31.6% - 37.2%
vs. 252 Timid Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump : 59.4% - 70.1%
vs. 152 Modest Leftovers Togekiss Air Slash : 66.3% - 78.6%
vs. 252 Timid Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt : 54.8% - 65%

4/0/0 Timid Life Orb Pokemon

vs. 252 Jolly Focus Sash Aerodactyl Earthquake : 34.6% - 41%
vs. 252 Brave Macho Brace Bronzong Earthquake : 34% - 40.1%
vs. 252 Adamant Toxic Orb Breloom Focus Punch : 196.8% - 232.7%
vs. 52 Adamant Leftovers Dragonite Outrage : 70.2% - 82.7%
vs. 36 Mild Expert Belt Electivire Cross Chop : 78.2% - 92.3%
vs. 252 Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon Outrage : 59.9% - 71.2%
vs. 112 Relaxed Shed Shell Forretress Earthquake : 27.2% - 32.4%
vs. 252 Jolly Life Orb Gliscor Earthquake : 62.5% - 74%
vs. 252 Adamant Life Orb Gyarados Waterfall : 66.3% - 78.2%
vs. 252 Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross Megahorn : 76.9% - 90.4%
vs. 124 Adamant Choice Band Hippowdon Earthquake : 80.1% - 94.6%
vs. 252 Naive Life Orb Infernape Close Combat : 160.3% - 189.1%
vs. 168 Jolly Leftovers Jirachi Fire Punch : 23.4% - 27.9%
vs. 252 Adamant Leftovers Kingdra Outrage : 63.8% - 75.3%
vs. 252 Adamant Life Orb Lucario ExtremeSpeed : 40.7% - 48.1%
vs. 252 Adamant Life Orb Lucario Close Combat : 182.7% - 215.4%
vs. 252 Adamant Leftovers Machamp DynamicPunch : 131.4% - 155.8%
vs. 252 Jolly Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake : 89.7% - 106.1%
vs. 236 Adamant Choice Band Metagross Earthquake : 67% - 79.2%
vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Scizor U-turn : 69.2% - 81.4%
vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Snorlax Body Slam : 74.4% - 87.8%
vs. 252 Jolly Choice Scarf Tyranitar Earthquake : 41% - 48.4%
vs. 252 Jolly Choice Band Weavile (80bp Fighting Physical) : 90.4% - 107.1%

252/0/0 Life Orb Pokemon

vs. 252 Jolly Focus Sash Aerodactyl Earthquake : 28.9% - 34.2%
vs. 252 Brave Macho Brace Bronzong Earthquake : 28.3% - 33.4%
vs. 252 Adamant Toxic Orb Breloom Focus Punch : 164.2% - 194.1%
vs. 52 Adamant Leftovers Dragonite Outrage : 58.6% - 69%
vs. 36 Mild Expert Belt Electivire Cross Chop : 65.2% - 77%
vs. 252 Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon Outrage : 50% - 59.4%
vs. 112 Relaxed Shed Shell Forretress Earthquake : 22.7% - 27%
vs. 252 Jolly Life Orb Gliscor Earthquake : 52.1% - 61.8%
vs. 252 Adamant Life Orb Gyarados Waterfall : 55.3% - 65.2%
vs. 252 Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross Megahorn : 64.2% - 75.4%
vs. 124 Adamant Choice Band Hippowdon Earthquake : 66.8% - 78.9%
vs. 252 Naive Life Orb Infernape Close Combat : 133.7% - 157.8%
vs. 168 Jolly Leftovers Jirachi Fire Punch : 19.5% - 23.3%
vs. 252 Adamant Leftovers Kingdra Outrage : 53.2% - 62.8%
vs. 252 Adamant Life Orb Lucario ExtremeSpeed : 34% - 40.1%
vs. 252 Adamant Life Orb Lucario Close Combat : 152.4% - 179.7%
vs. 252 Adamant Leftovers Machamp DynamicPunch : 109.6% - 129.9%
vs. 252 Jolly Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake : 74.9% - 88.5%
vs. 236 Adamant Choice Band Metagross Earthquake : 55.9% - 66%
vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Scizor U-turn : 57.8% - 67.9%
vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Snorlax Body Slam : 62% - 73.3%
vs. 252 Jolly Choice Scarf Tyranitar Earthquake : 34.2% - 40.4%
vs. 252 Jolly Choice Band Weavile (80bp Fighting Physical) : 75.4% - 89.3%

And now, my view on the reasoning behind our numbers.

The 120 Speed is probably the one thing Jibaku and I both wanted extremely. This allows it to outpace Jolly ScarfTar, Aura Sphere and prevent it from causing further damage to Togekiss, especially if you run a Togekiss without Aura Sphere, or Choice-locked on Air Slash. This also puts it above Starmie and Gengar, who both carry extremely strong Thunderbolts (and in the case of Starmie, Hydro Pump), that can pose enough of a threat to 2HKO some Togekiss that don't invest in HP or SpD. What's more is that by having a higher speed than these threats, CAP11 is not forced to rely on the slightly unreliable Sucker Punch, and there is no guarantee it will learn Sucker Punch (not a Type-Move for Dark-types, oddly). That, and the fact that it has a weaker attack means that Sucker Punch may not even guarantee the KO, even on Starmie and Gengar's weaker Defense stat. A follow on to this, is that CAP11 then is not forced to rely on Togekiss' shaky Thunder Wave support, since if we make CAP11 slow, that's two Pokemon below the 90 Speed threshold, making the pair even easier to destroy, as neither will then be able to launch Thunder Waves to support one of the other. It means we can concentrate on having Togekiss passing Nasty Plots to aid CAP11's sweep.

Coming onto that, the subject of power. 100 SpA is equal to the likes of Tyranitar and Starmie. While they seem like powerful attackers (definitely in the case of Starmie, and Tyranitar's Bait Killer set also shouldn't be overlooked), they actually lack the power to OHKO anything significant. And you should also remember they have access to an incredible movepool with near perfect SE coverage, while CAP11 will likely be limited to STAB moves, and with good NEUTRAL coverage. This basically means by itself, CAP11 is not going to be a very effective sweeper, since it is going to miss KOs on quite a few threats it can't hit SE, thus further relying on Togekiss' Nasty Plot to do any significant damage (see: above calcs). The best thing is that anything significant it can't KO, (even with a boost in some cases) are also doing enough damage back to it so that it's going to be put into a difficult situation, as we don't want this core to be unbreakable. Conversely, I wanted Attack to be as useless as possible. My original rough Spread had an Attack stat of 60, as this was just barely enough to 2HOK Blissey and Snorlax with Close Combat. I do not want to see a Physical set becoming plausible, especially if you consider that 100 base SpA with a +2 boost can 2HKO Blissey with Aura Sphere. An attempted mixed attacker set is plausible, perhaps Sucker Punch / 3 Special attacks, as you're probably only using Sucker Punch to KO anything faster, i.e. Azelf, Scarfed stuff and Jolteon. Anything else slower either doesn't pose as much of a threat, or you can dispatch after a Nasty Plot boost.

Bulk-wise, this was actually the part I paid most attention to detail with and that Jibaku and I changed the most often. Quite simple, the job is this - avoid being 2HKOed by anything that threatens Togekiss, make sure it doesn't wall anything at all. UNforunately, that second point was hard to do, due to typing, but we made it weak enough that anything remotely offensive could KO it with the right attack and situation. 95 HP / 95 SpD was a good ballpark, as it could then survive neutral Thunderbolts and such. However, the problem then was making it weaker as to not get too defensive, while balancing the Special Bulk and Physical Bulk. As Deck Knight showed a while ago, any physical offensive attack is either going to flat out KO you or is rare and/or weak. As a result, we could afford a lower Physical Bulk, as then it can just about avoid 2HKOes on Physical Attacks that are weak. But as we said, any physical attack worth thinking about is going to punch CAP11 into next year, so it wasn't that important.

TL;DR - less physical power, more concentrated special bias.

 

[Innocent Criminal]

I do. High HP stats are an abuse of the BSR calculator's formulas. They are, without a doubt, superior to having balanced HP/defenses and result in the CAP being far bulkier than it should be all under the guise of "staying within the limits" imposed by the TL. I don't favor any stat distribution that abuses high HP, especially not for this CAP.

You shouldn't say such accusation of mechanics abusing without running calcs to justify it.

Let's compare a 92/90/90 spread (149 tankiness value, the maximum allowed) with my 160/55/55 spread, using LO Starmie's TBolt :

No investment, neutral :
Vs. test spread : 37.8% - 44.6%
Vs. my spread : 39.3% - 46.4%

252 HP/252 SpD, positive :
Vs. test spread : 22.2% - 26.3%
Vs. my spread : 30.2% - 35.7%

0 HP/252 SpD, positive :
Vs. test spread : 26.5% - 31.4%
Vs. my spread : 25.2% - 29.7%

252 HP/0 SpD, neutral :
Vs. test spread : 31.7% - 37.4%
Vs. my spread : 34.5% - 40.8%
Vs. optimal 128Def/128SpD neutral (my spread) : 32.3% - 38.2%

The results couldn't be clearer :

• My high HP spread is globally less bulky than a standard 149 tankiness spread.
• HP EVs have a much lesser impact, meaning that a standard bulky bulky attacker set (252HP/252SpA, or even 252SpA/128Def/128SpD) is less effective than with a standard stat spread.
• Only the 252 Def/252 SpD set is a little bulkier than a standard spread (taking a whopping 1% less damage), but its obviously the one packing the less power.

High HP only bring constraints for this CAP to prevent it from having both bulk and power, and is definitely not a way to bypass Fuzznip's limits.

Don't let the high HP fool you and just look at the calcs on my post, especially the ones with no defensive investment and you'll see it's really not as bulky as it seems. Unboosted LO Gyarados' Waterfall does 63.8% - 75.1% to it !

EDIT :

That being said, I am against spreads that still leave 400+ EVs to be used outside of HP while having 101 Substitutes because I believe that CAP11 will then become a stand alone sweeper because it still has enough EVs to outrun and hit certain threats hard, while behind a Sub.

101 Substitutes only help against Blissey. 25% will always be 25%, so its substitutes won't be any bulkier than those of another pokemon with equivalent defenses. Furthermore, a High HP spread without defensive investment is less bulky than a standard spread, meaning that its substitutes wil be even easier to break. For example, even ScarfTar's resisted Stone Edge does min 29% to my 160HP spread with no investment, easily breaking its substitute. If your opponent is dumb enough to switch its Seismic Toss Blissey into a 160HP Fighting CAP, it deserved to lose one or two pokemons.

 

[danmantincan]

I do. High HP stats are an abuse of the BSR calculator's formulas. They are, without a doubt, superior to having balanced HP/defenses and result in the CAP being far bulkier than it should be all under the guise of "staying within the limits" imposed by the TL. I don't favor any stat distribution that abuses high HP, especially not for this CAP.

I just want to say that a high HP stat is not abusing the BSR calculator or making CAP11s "far bulkier than it should be all under the guise of 'staying within the limits' imposed by the TL". I have not done calculations for other stat spreads, but I will use mine as an example. My spread is 110 HP/70 Defense/80 Special Defense [ 63536/70756], which has near identical defenses to 80 HP/ 87 Defense/100 Special Defense [ 63210/71036]. Both of these spreads are still within the guidelines that Fuzznip has put in place, yet mine has the option of running 101 HP Substitutes, with significant HP investment, for a possible Bulk Up set. So if you, and the other members participating in CAP11s creation are against 101 Substitutes, other spreads can easily be made that are similar to high HP spreads.
That being said, I am against spreads that still leave 400+ EVs to be used outside of HP while having 101 Substitutes because I believe that CAP11 will then become a stand alone sweeper because it still has enough EVs to outrun and hit certain threats hard, while behind a Sub.

Edit: I just got ninjad by Yoki :(

 

[tennisace]

High HP is a definite advantage though, you said it yourself that it can make UNBOOSTED 101 HP Substitutes. Even if it isn't "abuse", it's certainly overdone in CAP (Original Pyroak, Cyclohm, Colossoil, Krillowatt). It's not original at all anymore.

 

[petrie911]

I do. High HP stats are an abuse of the BSR calculator's formulas. They are, without a doubt, superior to having balanced HP/defenses and result in the CAP being far bulkier than it should be all under the guise of "staying within the limits" imposed by the TL. I don't favor any stat distribution that abuses high HP, especially not for this CAP.

It's not just the BSR. High HP is a more efficient use of BST as well. For example, suppose you have 250 points to use in defenses, and want the two defenses to be equal. A quick calculation shows maximum bulk with no investment is reached with 108/71/71, which takes 2.5% less damage than the more balanced 80/85/85.

However, the BSR does, in fact, take this into account. The first spread has PT/ST of 133/132, while the second has PT/ST of 130/129. HP is simply a more efficient way to use stat points, as it boosts both defenses.

High HP also lets you specialize better. To get the same increase in physical or special defense a 108/71/71 spread gets by putting 80 EVs in (special) defense, 80/85/85 has to put 136 EVs into HP. 80/85/85 is a bit better at balanced bulk, though, as to get the same increase in balanced bulk that 80/85/85 gets with 80 extra EVs in HP, 108/71/71 has to invest 92 EVs in HP and the defenses.

EDIT: Hmm, now that I've said it, 108/71/71 is a better spread in defenses than 104/73/73. I'll adjust that.

 

[Fuzznip]

Hey. I'm going to be handing out final submission approvals tomorrow, so if you haven't finalized your stat spread yet, complete it soon. I'll open the stat spread poll the day after that, but I may approve a few more spreads if there are any before I post the poll.

I'd also like to say that many stat spreads are lacking convincing explanations, especially ones that have controversial base stat numbers. A lot of you just say "High HP to take attacks well and make 101 HP Substitutes", "Lots of Speed to outpace certain Pokemon", "This much Special Attack because this CAP is special", etc etc. Well, why does CAP 11 want such high base HP and the ability to make bulky Substitutes? Why does CAP 11 want to outspeed this Pokemon and that Pokemon? Why does CAP 11 need that much Special Attack and this much Attack? I hope you get the idea of where I'm coming from. I really want you to fully explain the idea behind your spread with detail so I can actually understand it, but not so much that you make a huge wall of text.

Also, please add offensive and defensive damage calculations to your spreads. This helps when I'm picking my slate because I know how your spread will work inside and out. Damage calculations easily portray what your spread can do without bulky paragraphs, so consider adding several in. Also, make your stat spread presentable and not cluttered with information so it's easier for me and others to read.

 

[Scoopapa]

You can just look at the PT and ST values, instead of trying to estimate how different spreads match up. For instance:

90 HP / 80 Def / 80 SpD
PT: 132
ST: 131

70 HP / 100 Def / 105 SpD
PT: 140
ST: 145

115 HP / 72 Def / 73 SpD
PT: 139
ST: 140

132 HP / 57 Def / 58 SpD
PT: 127
ST: 128

160 HP / 55 Def / 55 SpD
PT: 142
ST: 141 (I copy pasted this but ??)

PS and SS are less useful because you really want to know Speed and Attack power individually, but PT and ST are extremely useful.

I didn't put names because I'm not trying to advertise some people to the exclusion of others. However, it shows that high HP isn't everything. It does change how much damage we take from Seismic Toss, but I don't think that's all that important.

Edit: I don't expect I'll be changing my spread much but I'll begin working on calcs and repost a final draft of my explanation.

 

[Leman]

I don't see the point of 101 substitutes to be honest. Blissey is the only thing that uses Seismic Toss, and with STAB Close Combat and Aura Sphere, no Blissey is going to stay in long enough to get set up on, especailly if this Pokemon is suppossed to be Nasty Plot recipient. If a Blissey does stay in chances are it will be using Thunder Wave, not Seismic Toss, and then switching in something to absorb the incoming Fighting attack. 101 Subs aren't needed to block that. Also, since its supposed to be receiving Nasty Plots from Togekiss, it probably won't get Calm Mind or Nasty Plot to set up with.

 

[LouisCyphre]

The idea at first was to be a total threat to Blissey. Obviously it's not going to stay in; but a smart Blissey user might predict a CAP11 user's prediction of a Ghost switch and try to paralyze, only to be met with a Sub. A 101 Sub is a Sub that she simply can't break, forcing her to switch or die when confronted with one, and ensuring a setup turn to either pass the Sub to Kiss or set up with CAP, or even launch a Dark assault on a predicted Ghost or Psychic. The 101 Sub is the final nail in the coffin that makes CAP11 a total threat to Blissey - between Close Combat, Substitute, and Pursuit, she'll a lot less likely to switch into 'Kiss, fearing the inevitable CAP11 lurking behind it. The threat of 101 Subs is all that's really necessary, just like you only need the threat of Close Combat to scare her off.

Of course, CAP11 has plenty of other ways to scare off Blissey.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

It's not just the BSR. High HP is a more efficient use of BST as well. For example, suppose you have 250 points to use in defenses, and want the two defenses to be equal. A quick calculation shows maximum bulk with no investment is reached with 108/71/71, which takes 2.5% less damage than the more balanced 80/85/85.

However, the BSR does, in fact, take this into account. The first spread has PT/ST of 133/132, while the second has PT/ST of 130/129. HP is simply a more efficient way to use stat points, as it boosts both defenses.

High HP also lets you specialize better. To get the same increase in physical or special defense a 108/71/71 spread gets by putting 80 EVs in (special) defense, 80/85/85 has to put 136 EVs into HP. 80/85/85 is a bit better at balanced bulk, though, as to get the same increase in balanced bulk that 80/85/85 gets with 80 extra EVs in HP, 108/71/71 has to invest 92 EVs in HP and the defenses.

This is sort of the point I was getting at with my post, but really didn't want to expend the effort to describe. Perhaps using the word "abuse" was a bit much, but because of the more efficient usage of stat points, using high HP and lower defenses allows for better distributed stats for a given BST and a "better" CAP stat-wise. People are also really not factoring what changes when you give a CAP high HP / low defenses as opposed to balanced stats. If, for some reason, CAP11 were to invest in a specific defense, high HP / low defenses would be substantially better in that invested defense than a balanced spread. No one that has proposed a high HP stat so far has really justified why that is meaningful at all for CAP11 (hint: it's not), so it feels, to me, to be a kind of cheap way to get exaggerated stats and more "bang for your buck". I am openly against this sort of stat optimization (it is both unreasonable for normal Pokemon and results in CAPs being stronger than they need to be - check Colossoil and Krilowatt). Really, let's try to avoid making a brokenmon here.

 

[Innocent Criminal]

High HP is a definite advantage though, you said it yourself that it can make UNBOOSTED 101 HP Substitutes. Even if it isn't "abuse", it's certainly overdone in CAP (Original Pyroak, Cyclohm, Colossoil, Krillowatt). It's not original at all anymore.

Sure, but is it such a big deal when we're making a Fighting CAP, designed to beat Blissey anyway ? 101HP Substitutes are just as easy to break with any other attack than Seismic Toss and you're not going to SubPass anything with 75 Base Speed, so it's just a minor advantage.
AS for the second part of your post, originality shouldn't be a concern for CAP.

It's not just the BSR. High HP is a more efficient use of BST as well. For example, suppose you have 250 points to use in defenses, and want the two defenses to be equal. A quick calculation shows maximum bulk with no investment is reached with 108/71/71, which takes 2.5% less damage than the more balanced 80/85/85.

True, and that's the very reason why we use BSR, so BST is completely irrelevant.

Furthermore, we should simply look at calcs and not argue over theoritical differences : I chose high HP because it specializes better, but I stayed my hand at only 142 tankiness to make sure that I didn't cross any boundary. Just look at my demonstration calcs a few posts earliers, only one specific EV set is bulkier than with a standard stat spread, and even then it only takes 1% less damage from LO Starmie's TBolt, while every other spread is less bulky.


PS : English is not my native language, so please forgive me if I seemed harsh or rude, I'm writing these posts with good intentions :)

PPS :

A lot of you just say "High HP to take attacks well and make 101 HP Substitutes"

I'm afraid I didn't develop that point enough in my post, so I'll answer you here.
The point of my very high HP spread is to have similar bulk to that of a 149 tankiness pokemon with a purely defensive EV spread, but less bulk than such pokemons on offensive spreads. More than 101HP Substitutes, it's a good way to nerf it's bulk as an offensive mon but not as a bulky supporter/utility counter (as Togekiss can need both of these pokemons depending on its sets).

EDIT :

If, for some reason, CAP11 were to invest in a specific defense, high HP / low defenses would be substantially better in that invested defense than a balanced spread.

Did you even look at my calcs justifying the non-brokenness of a high HP spread?
With "test spread" being 92/90/90 (149 tankiness)

Calcs

No investment, neutral :
Vs. test spread : 37.8% - 44.6%
Vs. my spread : 39.3% - 46.4%

252 HP/252 SpD, positive :
Vs. test spread : 22.2% - 26.3%
Vs. my spread : 30.2% - 35.7%

0 HP/252 SpD, positive :
Vs. test spread : 26.5% - 31.4%
Vs. my spread : 25.2% - 29.7%

252 HP/0 SpD, neutral :
Vs. test spread : 31.7% - 37.4%
Vs. my spread : 34.5% - 40.8%
Vs. optimal 128Def/128SpD neutral (my spread) : 32.3% - 38.2%

High HP does a little better on 0 HP/252 SpD (one whopping percent less damage !), but worse for every other spread, and much worse on 252HP/252SpD spread. How is that a "cheap way to get exaggerated stats and more bang for your buck" ?

 

[Deck Knight]

Yoki, High HP/ mid defenses is a "gaming" of the calculator, I should know since I'm the best at exploiting it without losing spread marketability. (A bit of an arrogant statement I suppose, but I am responsible for the last 3 stat spreads, though Colossoil and Krillowatt are where I actively used it moreso than just stumbling upon it.)

The example you used is intensely flawed.

Let's compare a 92/90/90 spread (149 tankiness value, the maximum allowed) with my 160/55/55 spread, using LO Starmie's TBolt :

Let's not, because the high HP spread is at a mathematical disadvantage (142 tankiness). The two spreads do not have equal (or near equal) tankiness. There is a point where more HP does not adequately make up for a lack of defense. So just pumping HP at the expense of defenses does not always work.

Rather, let us compare something that doesn't go beyond that point. Let's do 140/65/65. That has 148/147 Tankiness, so it should be a good enough match.

Same calcs on Starmie Tbolt:

Set 1: 92/90/90 149 Tankiness
Set 2: 140/65/65 147 Tankiness

These are nuetral natured calcs.

0 HP /0 SpD:
Set 1: 37.8-44.6%
Set 2: 37.9-44.7%

252 HP /0 SpD:
Set 1: 31.7-37.4%
Set 2: 32.9-38.8%
Set 2 0 HP/132 SpD: 31.6-37.3%

0 HP / 252 SpD:
Set 1: 29.5-34.8%
Set 2: 27.6-32.5%

252 HP / 252 SpD:
Set 1: 24.7-29.1%
Set 2: 24-28.3%

As you can clearly see, Set 2 is superior with the same level of investment, despite having 2 Base Stat points allocated less, and also 2 nominal points of tankiness less. Differences without investment are entirely negligible, and you still picked up 2 extra BST to distribute. Moreover, In order to get the same benefit in a defense, Set 2 needs 132 EVs in a Defense to match what 252 EVs in HP would do in Set 1. Meaning that if you don't care about a certain defense, Set 2 is entirely superior because you can use 120 less EVs to accomplish the same bulk in that defense that would be conferred by maxing HP in the first set. Moreover, defenses can be boosted by Nature where HP can't, so if you're looking for a certain calculation, Nature can get you there fairly quickly where Set 1 needs more HP EVs.

The point of HP is not that it can be taken 2/1 against defenses infinitely, just that sets with more HP than defenses are closer to optimum performance using the same allocated BST. This is an exploit in the current way BSR's are calculated, and thus now as public knowledge is harder to sell to people who pay large amounts of attention to it. Now there is, ultimately, an upper limit to this kind of exploitation (the Rank limit only lets you take it so far), but generally speaking it makes the Pokemon much bulkier than the examples of existing Pokemon in the same rank would lead you to believe.

 

[Scoopapa]

70 HP / 80 Atk / 100 Def / 108 SpA / 105 SpD / 102 Spe

PS: 141 (Rank 5: Good)
PT: 140 (Rank 5: Good)
SS: 191 (Rank 7: Excellent)
ST: 145 (Rank 5: Good)
O/D Balance: 7.86 (Moderately Offensive)
P/S Balance: -8.77 (Moderately Special)
OVERALL RATING: 346 (Rank 6: Very Good)

102 Spe
Outspeeds Zapdos and Rotom, which seem to be the important Togekiss counters to beat. Zapdos is especially important thanks to Roost stalling. This way, it will eventually flinch against Dark Pulse and can't buy an Ice or Rock neutrality. Everything faster than this is looking at OHKO's or 2HKO's, so it should work well. Also, all Fighting-types get Vacuum Wave, which reduces the need for excessive speed.

*Considering that bumping this up to 105 Spe doesn't push me over any accepted limit, I don't really see 102 Spe to be "gaming the system". It's the same as Garchomp, for what it's worth.

Offenses
80 Atk 108 SpAtk
With a Timid nature and Life Orb, a combination of Aura Sphere and Close Combat kills Blissey, assuming SR. Snorlax is 2HKOed by Aura Shpere after SR. The SpAtk is high enough to do a lot of damage with amazing STAB coverage, but not strong enough to be an instant team breaker. It's definitely high enough to be frightening with a +2 boost from Togekiss, though.

*Okay, 110 SpAtk does just push me over the special sweepiness limit (105 / 120 fine but 110 / 102 apparently not >.>). However, the 108 works with 102 Spe and at least gives a BST that is a multiple of 5. Which I consider "prettier" than 108 / 105 with an unrounded BST. Many of these 1-2HKOes are close calls, so the extra oomph over 105 is appreciated.

offensive calcs

DK's Boosting item calcs:
+1/Choice Band/Specs: 67%+ = OHKO, 36%+ = 2HKO
Life Orb: 77% + = OHKO, 42%+ = 2HKO
Expert Belt/Type Plate: 84%+ = OHKO , 45%+ = 2HKO

* The following calcs take leftovers into account where applicable

252 SpA, neutral Aura Sphere:
vs. 252 / 252 Bold Blissey - 28% - 33.1%
vs. 168 / 220 Careful Snorlax - 35.8% - 42.1% (2HKO with Life Orb and SR)
vs. 252 / 252 Impish Skarmory - 38% - 45.2% (2HKO with Life Orb and SR)
vs. 252 / 0 Relaxed Swampert - 35.1% - 41.6% (low chance to 2HKO with Life Orb and SR)
vs. 4 / 0 Timid Suicune - 33.6% - 39.8% (2HKO with Life Orb and SR)
vs. 252 / 88 Impish Hippowdon - 36% - 42.4% (~50% chance to 2HKO with Life Orb and SR)
vs. 248 / 0 Adamant Scizor - 45.5% - 53.6%
vs. 0 / 0 Adamant Tyranitar - 101.8% - 120.5%
vs. 252 / 220 Careful Tyranitar - 63.4% - 75.2% (>50% OHKO with Life Orb and SR)
vs. 0 / 0 Timid Heatran - 76.2% - 89.8% (>90% chance to OHKO with Life Orb)
vs 0 / 0 Jolteon - 49.6% - 58.8%
vs. 252 / 92 Sassy Bronzong - 28.4% - 33.7%
vs. 0 / 0 Kingdra - 46.4% - 54.6%

252 SpA, neutral Dark Pulse:
vs. 252 / 0 Bold Rotom A - 71.7% - 84.9% (OHKO with Life Orb and SR)
vs. 0 / 0 Timid Rotom A - 90.5% - 107.1%
vs. 252 / 0 Jolly Gliscor - 41% - 48.6% (2HKO with Life Orb)
vs. 252 / 0 Bold Celebi - 56.9% - 67.3%
vs. 252 / 0 Adamant Dragonite - 29.8% - 35.2% (2HKO with Life Orb and SR)
vs. 0 / 0 Adamant Gyarados - 34.7% - 41.1% (2HKO with Life Orb and SR)
vs. 252 / 0 Bold Zapdos - 33.2% - 39.2% (2HKO with Life Orb and SR)
vs. 0 / 0 Timid Zapdos - 39.6% - 46.7% (2HKO with Life Orb)

0 Atk -nature Close Combat
vs. 252 / 252 Bold Blissey - 49% - 58% (LO - 63.9% - 75.1%)
Holding a Life Orb, you KO Blissey with a combination of Aura Sphere, Close Combat, and SR
0 Atk neutral Close Combat
vs. 252 / 252 Bold Blissey - 54.6% - 64.1% (LO - 70.6% - 83.2%)
No need for SR with a neutral nature

This scores a very large number of 2HKOes with a Life Orb attached and SR on the field. Note that with a +2 boost from Togekiss you can 2HKO Blissey with Aura Sphere while holding Leftovers.

defenses
70/100/105

Despite the low HP, these defenses are actually pretty solid. Overall, they manage to avoid 2HKOes from univested STAB attacks and avoid OHKOes from all but very powerful STAB or Super Effective attacks (check the calcs for specifics). I chose small HP and high defenses because, although they are pretty decent with no investment, they both get markedly better when 252 HP EV's are added. Although I didn't want it to be necessary, I wanted there to be some reward for putting EV's towards HP and using Togekiss' paralysis to patch up the speed. With full investment in HP and Defenses, this stat spread is bulky enough to use any support options we think Togekiss might need.

defensive calcs

I'll be using this format:
Pokemon
set's attack - damage to 0/0 spread (damage to 252/0 spread)
comments

Tyranitar
Choice Scarf Tyranitar's Stone Edge - 29.9% - 35.2% (24.4% - 28.8%)
Choice Scarf Tyranitar's Earthquake - 39.9% - 47% (32.6% - 38.4%)
Choice Band Tyranitar's Stone Edge - 48.8% - 57.7% (39.8% - 47.1%)
+1 DDTar (Life Orb) Stone Edge - 63.3% - 74.7% (51.7% - 61%)
counters Tyranitar

Jolteon
Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt - 70.8% - 83.6% (57.8% - 68.3%)
SR + Aura Sphere + Vacuum Wave will kill it if you have a LO : P

Scizor
Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch - 57.7% - 68.3% (46.5% - 55.2%)
At least it can't really switch in

Starmie
LO Starmie Hydro Pump - 72.6% - 85.8% (59.3% - 70.1%)
spinner Starmie Surf - 35.2% - 41.6% (28.8% - 34%)

Rotom-A
Scarf Rotom-A Thunderbolt - 45.9% - 54.4% (37.5% - 44.5%)
Defensive Rotom-A Thunderbolt - 36.3% - 43.1% (29.7% - 35.2%)

Zapdos
Defensive Zapdos Thunderbolt - 42% - 50.2% (34.3% - 41%)
LO Zapdos Thunderbolt - 67.3% - 79.4% (54.9% - 64.8%)

Heatran
Choice Scarf Heatran Fire Blast - 67.3% - 79.4% (54.9% - 64.8%)
exactly the same as Zapdos 0.o

Gengar
Lefties Gengar Focus Blast - 89.7% - 106% (73.3% - 86.6%)
At full health, factoring accuracy, you have ~75 chance to live
LO Gengar Focus Blast - 116.7% - 137.4% (95.3% - 112.2%)
(At full health, factoring accuracy, the bulky spread has ~52% chance of survival)
Gengar will still be troublesome

Swampert
Mixpert lead Earthquake - 42% - 49.5% (34.3% - 40.4%)

Metagross
LO Metagross Meteor Mash - 85.4% - 100.7% (69.2% - 82%)

The defenses aren't bad with no investment, but they gain a lot with 252 HP EV's, so if you want to run that alongside paralysis, it's an option.

Overall, this is a very balanced spread. The defenses are in the upper end of the limits, the Attack is enough to get by Blissey, and 108 SpA /102 Spe sweeping stats are enough to abuse the incredible typing.

 

[petrie911]

True, and that's the very reason why we use BSR, so BST is completely irrelevant.

BST isn't really completely irrelevant. Firstly, if you plot BSR vs BST, you'll see that BSR has a 98% correlation with BST. In fact, just divide your BST by 30 and square it and you get a pretty good approximation of your BSR. Further, BSRs vary widely over OU, pretty much as much as BSTs vary over OU. While I respect X-Act's work, BSR is not that wonderful of a measurement of a Pokemon's ability.

Post-revision Pyroak, Colossoil, and Krilowatt are most commonly called broken among the CaPs, from what I can tell. They're also the ones above 555 BST. Coincidence?

 

[FreakInside]

CAP11 is turning into a Very-Good-and-maybe-great Pokemon

I thought:
"General Description: Pick a good-but-not-great OU pokemon, and design the perfect teammate for it, similar to the way Celebi & Heatran, or Blissey & Skarmory complement each other so well on competitive teams."

Not only is it gonna be doing great without Togekiss, with its offensive typing, it could sweep on its own!

I think we are getting off the track here!

What we should be looking for is not so fast, physically offencive special sponge! faster than Zapdos and specially stronger than Rotom is gonna do far better than most Pokemons even without Togekiss!

 

[LouisCyphre]

That's kind of the idea, isn't it? A CAP that can function on its own, but really, really shines when given any of the support that Togekiss offers. Am I reading it wrong...?

(I still stand by my spread and anything roughly equivalent; CAP11 doesn't need to pull all of the weight 'Kiss can't, just most of it. You have four other pokes to fill specific gaps or handle specific threats.)

 

[FreakInside]

It can function on its own alright, but shine with Togekiss, no! The typing only covers rock and bug to begin with!

The CAP11 is gonna be special based? with 95 attack it can deal with rotom and blissey, giving it abilities like guts might make it shine since Togekiss is main target for thunderwave and Rotom usually comes with Will-O-Wisp. I don't see why both of them needs to be blocked by blissey without nasty plot...

Isn't there a way where they can work together in more than one way!? Their team work is gonna scream "HAZE ME!"

 

[WaffleChan]

Proposed Stat Submission:

90/70/90/105/90/120
PS: 127 (Good - 5)
PT: 147 (Good - 5)
SS: 199 (Excellent - 7)
ST: 146 (Good - 5)
Overall Rating: 344 (Very Good - 6)

I've been working on this spread for a couple days now and in looking through this thread today, found that it was quite similar to Jibaku's and Zystral's spread. Though our spreads are similar in nature I found it necessary to tweak it a little.

Defenses:
The proposed defenses are very similiar to Poliwrath's (90/95/90) who has a slightly better defensive typing than that of CAP 11. Again I'll compare it to Jibaku's Zystral's. Defensively, the special aspect doesn't change much. What is lost is gained in versatility and in HP. Physically I believe CAP 11 must be able to at least somewhat compensate for Togekiss' physical weakness and 90/90 pushes the allowed limit almost as far as it can go.

Offenses:
If it had only been the defenses that I had wished different from Jibaku's and Zystral's I certainly wouldn't of bothered posting. Firstly to even, I believe that CAP 11 needs all the Special Attack it can get to be be able to pose a moderate threat on it's own while supporting Togekiss the best it can. The best special STAB moves offered to CAP 11 are. Aura Sphere, Focus Blast (if it even hits), Dark Pulse and arguably Vacuum Wave. Not the most favourable choice of moves for the most part. 105 Sp. Atk coupled with 120 Speed is the highest SS rating allowed. This is needed to help CAP 11 attain KO's against Pokemon threatening both itself and more importantly Togekissw who's sweeping abilities are limited and overshadowed by more suitable Pokemon.

Next, the lowest Attack stat I've seen submitted so far is 80. To me this is still to high. With CAP 11's amazing Physical offensive STAB's, 70 (possibly 74 if I'm pursuaded to bump it up a bit) is enough to support a needed Close Combat. 70 Attack gives CAP 11 just enough to farily effectively use it's Physical moves while nerfing it enough not to rely on them. The goal of this CAP is to make a partner to Togekiss; the danger of CAP 11's attack being boosted to high is that either:

a) It will become strong enough to function above expectations without Togekiss or;
b) It will become a greater asset to another Pokemon instead of Togekiss.

Super powered Close Combats to take out Blissey will benefit Zapdos more than Togekiss as Togekiss can function as a Nasty Plot sweer (only) with paralysis support or can effectively baton pass Nasty Plots to the likes of CAP 11 who can attack Blissey with boosted Aura Spheres. A +2 Aura Sphere from a max neutral nature 105 Special attak will always 2HKO, while a +4 Aura Sphere with a life orb will always OHKO.

A lower attack encourages the use of special attacks, which, based on the concept and concept assement of the CAP, is some that we as a community want.

 

[hydrolphin]

I have recieve permission from Fuzznip to make this my Final Submission

HP: 80
Atk: 85
Def: 83
SpA: 108
SpD: 100
Spe: 108

PT: 127-Rank 5, Good
PS: 153-Rank 6, Very Good
ST: 149-Rank 5, Good
SS: 199-Rank 7, Excellent
ODB: 7.63-Moderate offense
PSB: -10.1-Special
BSR: 349-Rank 6, Very Good

Overview
My spread's main goal is to render Togekiss' counters harmless as easily as possible. Zapdos is the main threat in my eyes, so the spread is partially based around it. When I began creating this, I knew from the start that I wanted to outspeed Zapdos and Lucario, have a good special attack to pair with it, and still be able to shrug off STAB Thunderbolts. On the Physical side, I took much less interest as the few physical threats to Togekiss (Lucario, Tyrantar) are either destroyed by CAP11's typing or outspeed and easily dealt with.

Offenses
Like everyone else's, my spread is biased specially. 108 speed is on par with Infernape's and is higher than Zapdos, Lucario, and Rotom. Combined with a solid SpA (Higher than Rotom's or Infernape's), my spread is able to take on Togekiss' main threats. My spread is also at a perfect location for taking NP Passes. 108 Special Attack won't sweep anything, but armed with a boost, it becomes very dangerous. Think Infernape with real defenses.

On the other hand 85 Attack isn't much. But its enough to scare off Blissey if you use CC, or dent a Jolteon with Sucker Punch.

Defenses
So, as you can see, my spread is very good on the Special side. This is to prevent Zapdos from running over it. I attempted to do the same for Jolteon, but SpecsJolt will run through this combo, as no allowed Special Tankiness can take more than one TBolt from it. Anyway, Zapdos is key. It has two main sets: Offensive, and Physically Defensive. Both defeat Togekiss, so CAP11 must be able to deal with both. Offensive is easier. Even if my spread has no investment in the defenses, LOZapdos can never OHKO, while CAP11 can outspeed and always OHKO with Ice Beam after SR. Defensive Zapdos is a bit more problematic, but this spread can still handle it.

On the Physically Defensive spectrum, my Spread is not outstanding but good enough. A ScarfTar Stone Edge doesn't 2hko, while an Aura Sphere certainly does. With a little investment in HP (96 EVs or so), My spread can always take a +2 Extremespeed from an Adamant Luke and OHKO back. Its Defenses are good enough to take care of threats to Togekiss.

[HIDE="Calcs!]
In my Damage Calculations, I have decided to optimize the spread according to the need. Now while obviously you aren't going to do this with CAP11.

Zapdos:

For Offensive Zapdos, the best possible EV Spread is Timid with 52 HP/16 SpA/252 SpD/192 Spe. This insures you always outspeed it.

LO CAP11 using Ice Beam against Offensive Zapdos: 65.4% - 77.3%
Offensive Zapdos using Thunderbolt against CAP11: 49.7% - 58.6%

So as you can see, this spread can switch in with ease on anything and OHKO Zapdos after SR and one LO recoil. If you want to be safe, 164 SpA EVs always OHKO without recoil, but the defenses must be compromised.

For Physically Defensive Zapdos, the best possible spread is Modest 4 HP/252 SpA/252 SpD. This set outspeeds Defensive Zapdos.

LO CAP11 using Ice Beam against Defensive Zapdos: 73.6% - 87.2%
Zapdos using Thunderbolt against CAP11: 32.8% - 38.7%

So while max stats can't quite OHKO Zapdos after SR, it still does most of the time. Since you outspeed, Roost has no effect on Ice Beam.

Rotom-A

For Defensive Rotom, I will use the same spread as Defensive Zapdos.

LO CAP11 using Dark Pulse against Defensive Rotom-A: 102.6% - 121.1%
Defensive Rotom-A using Thunderbolt against CAP11: 27.8% - 33.1%

Similarly to Defensive Zapdos, Rotom can't hurt CAP11 much. But unlike Zapdos, Rotom shrivels up and dies at the site of CAP11. Even without SR, it is cleanly OHKOed and is always outsped. Scarf Rotom does outspeed CAP11, but it still doesn't do much damage at all and is cleanly OHKOed

Tyranitar

Leftovers CAP11 (Neutral Nature, 252 SpA) using Aura Sphere against Scarf Tyranitar: 150.9% - 178.9%
Scarftar using Earthquake against 0/0 CAP11: 43.2% - 51.2%

This is a great example of Togekiss working together with CAP11. CAP11 can always OHKO Scarftar and can shrug off any off its attacks... except Earthquake. If TTar comes in on Togekiss, it probably won't be using Earthquake, making CAP11 and easy switch in. And even if it does, any amount of defensive EVs will allow CAP11 to take two EQs.

As for other Tyranitar... they rarely carry any move that can OHKO my spread, and it always outspeeds ScarflessTar. Tyranitar is not much of a problem for CAP11.

Blissey

Blissey is pretty much the only reason to have a physical move on CAP11 with my spread.

CAP11 using Close Combat (0 EVs) against WishBliss Blissey: 57.1% - 67.5%
CAP11 using +2 Aura Sphere (252 EVs neutral nature) against WishBliss Blissey: 55.7% - 65.8%

My set has enough Attack to easily 2HKO standard Blissey without any investment. So if you were using a supporting set (Something like Close Combat/Dark Pulse/Taunt/Filler) you could invest more in other stats and still be fine against Blissey. If you were using a sweeping set, with only one NP you can always 2HKO with Aura Sphere, even without a LO. Blissey is obviously not an issue. Just for your information... with no HP investment, you sit a 301... enough HP to not be 3HKOed by Seismic Toss.

Jolteon
SpecsJolt is nearly impossible to comfortably counter unless you are Blissey or Tyrantar... but my spread can beat it one on one with a Scarf.

Scarf CAP11 (Modest, 252 SpA) using Aura Sphere against Spec Jolteon: 54.4% - 64.3%
Specs Jolton using Thunderbolt against Scarf CAP11 (4 HP/252 SpD): 54% - 63.9%

The damage output is similar, but armed with a Scarf, CAP11 outspeeds and wins... if it can get in. I could not find an effective way to switch in on Jolteon and beat it. This method can revenge it or try to lure it in, but it can't legitimately counter it.

Lucario
SD Lucario is another threat that gives Togekiss trouble, but this spread+a little prediction can take it on.

Adamant SD Lucario using +2 Extremespeed against CAP11 (96 HP EVs): 79.4% - 93.5%
CAP11 using Aura Sphere (16 EVs) against SD Lucario: 100.4% - 118.1%

Here is the likely situation... Togekiss is in on whatever and Lucario comes in. Lucario Sword Dances while you switch to CAP11. CAP11 with some investment outspeeds Lucario. Luke must use Extremespeed, which you can take and OHKO back. As long as you don't come in on the CC, you can beat Lucario.
[/HIDE]

 

[familyguyman]

Ok, here's my final submission:

100/110/70/125/75/90
BST: 570

PS: 173 (Very Good - 6)
PT: 125 (Good - 5)
SS: 198 (Excellent - 7)
ST: 132 (Good - 5)
Overall Rating: 349 (Very Good - 6)

There are two perspectives I want to emphasize with Togekiss but they all revolve around the idea that Togekiss loves paralysis, no matter what. We should not take away from this with an overly fast CAP; we don't want to redefine Togekiss as a Nasty Plot passer but emphasize her abilities, he most useful of which is to murder paralyzed opponents.

Therefore, my sweeping stats are:
110/125/90. It's similar to Lucario but better for two reasons. Firstly, Dark/Fighting is actually good STAB and secondly it's a better spread than 110/115/90. If Lucario can pull it off, CAP11 should only do better offensively.

The key physical KO is a clean OHKO on any Blissey with LO, Close Combat, Rocks and no investment on CAP11.

Specially is where we see some good stuff. Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse will be the focus here. With a Nasty Plot Pass, a 252 SpAtk, Modest CAP11 will OHKO max HP Jirachi 100% of the time using Aura Sphere and a good chance with Rocks up using Dark Pulse. Specially Defensive Zapdos is almost guaranteed to be OHKO'd by Dark Pulse with Rocks up (74.4% min) and won't out speed CAP11. Rotom-A won't stand a chance.

The key here is that yes, CAP11 will love a Nasty Plot pass to go with Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse and Close Combat. However, he's not fast enough with paralysis support, the same that Togekiss loves, to pull off a sweep hence he will go well on the same style of team as Togekiss which is what we want to emphasize I think.


The other direction is a more defensive option. 100/70/75 doesn't look like much but with proper investment, it can hold it's own. Max HP, Max Def will avoid a 2HKO from CB Scizor's Bullet Punch, something Togekiss can appreciate. Going Bold avoids a OHKO from Special Infernape's Close Combat, just barely with Rocks up. Without Bold, it's a gamble but that's still impressive. Basically, to go to such extremes, CAP11 would fill in a support roll along side a defensive Togekiss. In fact, with Wish passing, the two could form a potent defensive combo that isn't strong enough to be a core but can certainly switch in to take a hit for each other.


It's also worth mentioning that as an independent Pokemon, this spread would certainly fit a Scarf Revenge killer thanks to the good but not great speed and the fabulous mixed offensive typing so he's not obliged to Togekiss entirely.


Overall, this spread is basically a beefed up Lucario with superior offensive typing at the cost of defensive typing. Without Swords Dance and Extreme Speed, you relegate him to a role requiring support, namely boost passing and paralysis, exactly what Togekiss provides and loves to have as well. In return, CAP11 can beat down Togekiss' archnemeses with authority.

 

[toshimelonhead]

Base Stats at this moment:
HP: 100
ATK: 77
DEF: 80
SATK: 95
SDEF: 85
SPE: 101
Total BST: 538

BST Stats:
PS: 136 (5)
PT: 142 (6)
SS: 171 (6)
ST: 149 (5)
OVR: 328 (Good)

Introduction:

Assumptions: I assumed that CAP 11 for sure would have Aura Sphere, Vacuum Wave, Close Combat, and Dark Pulse through level up or egg moves. I also assumed that it could learn Flamethrower and Ice Beam through TM, which might be a small stretch but fairly realistic for what it needs to check. A realistic movepool would contain 4 of these 6 moves with Life Orb, or 2 supporting moves can get thrown in here needed.

Parameters:

Attack/Special Attack: I wanted this pokemon to be specially oriented because the OU metagame doesn’t have a special attacking Dark-type, and Fighting is seen as more as a physical type in OU. More specifically, if you look at what “checks” Togekiss: Bronzong, Blissey, Jirachi, Lucario, Tyranitar, Zapdos, Jolteon, Electivire, and Rotom-A are easier to attach from the special end (with the exception of Blissey). By focusing on trying to counter this specific list, I set out a bunch of parameters for Physical Sweepiness, Special Sweepiness, Physical Tankiness, and Special Tankiness that CAP 11 needs to check this list without becoming too overpowering.

Physical Sweepiness:
Blissey should be 2HKOed by Close Combat no EV investment OR OHKOed with max adamant Life Orb, whichever is less.

Justification: Not a whole lot of other pokes on that list that are specially bulky (maybe TTar). It’s probably easier to make this specially-based.

What fulfills this: 77 Attack

(Notes on Calculations: 252 is the Attack EVs, + means Positive Nature, 0/252 means 0 HP, 252 Defense EVs)
252/+ LO CAP 11 Close Combat v 0/252+ Blissey: 100.3% - 118.5%
0/0 v 0/252+ Blissey: 52.9% - 62.5% (99% of a 2hko with Lefties and no SR)

Special Sweepiness:
Aura Sphere must OHKO TTar after SR and Sandstorm
Bronzong and Jirachi should be 2HKOed and Lucario should die in 1 hit with LO and SR factoring in Flamethrower (or Aura Sphere)
Zapdos should be OHKOed following SR with Ice Beam or bulky versions should get 2HKOed
Starmie should be OHKOed with Dark Pulse and LO damage.
Rotom-A should be OHKOed by Dark Pulse (non bulky) and 2hkoed with the Bulky version.

Justification: For a list of Togekiss’s threats, this list is much more comprehensive, thus more emphasis was put into Special Attack. CAP 11’s potential movepool looks like it could be stronger on the special side and I wanted to avoid overlap with Colossoil’s stat spread, which would have been easy to do. Rotom-A and Zapdos normally put more EV investment into physical defense than special anyways. I had to do some guessing here to what exactly would be in the movepool, but I assumed that Vacuum Wave, Close Combat, Mach Punch, Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse were locks, and that Flamethrower and/or Ice Beam were definite possibilities to get rid of Togekiss checks.

With 95 SAtk:

Aura Sphere:
95/0 vs TTar with Sand: 92.4% - 109.9%
95/252+ LO vs 252/216+ TTar with Sand: 83.2% - 99% (Cursetar doesn’t do much back)

Flamethrower:
95/0 Lefties CAP 11 v 4/0 Jirachi: 38.7% - 45.7% (3hko)
95/252+ LO CAP 11 vs 252/0 Jirachi: 69.8% - 82.1% (2hko)
95/0 LO CAP 11 vs 4/0 Lucario: 88.3% - 104.6%
95/252+ LO CAP 11 vs 252/92 Levitate Bronzong: 52.7% - 62.1% with Lefties

Ice Beam:
95/0 Lefties CAP 11 vs 248/0 Zapdos: 37.6% - 44.4% (3hko, 2hko with rocks)
95/252+ LO CAP 11 vs 248/228+ Zapdos: 44.4% - 52.7% (2hko after rocks)
95/252+ LO CAP 11 vs 4/0 Zapdos: 74.1% - 87.2% (OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Dark Pulse:
95/0 Lefties CAP 11 vs 136/0 Starmie: 63.7% - 75.9% (guaranteed 2hko)
95/252 LO CAP 11 vs 136/0 Starmie: 106.4% - 126.1%
95/0 Lefties vs 252/88 Rotom-A: 51.3% - 61.2% (guaranteed 2HKO after Rocks)
95/252+ LO vs 252/88 Rotom-A: 94.7% - 111.2% (OHKO after Rocks)

Physical Tankiness:
Choice Scarf Jolly TTar must not OHKO with Superpower.
DD LO +1 Tyranitar should not be able to OHKO It with Earthquake with any EV or nature investment.
With EV investment and positive nature, CAP 11 survives LO +1 DDTar EQ twice

Justification: Tyranitar is a big problem on the physical spectrum for Togekiss because of the threat of Stone Edge, allowing TTar to potentially set up Dragon Dance and sweep. Lucario is another problem for Togekiss, but +2 Close Combat was still a OHKO even with Chopple Berry, so it wasn’t worth raising the tankiness more. CAP 11 should be ok at revenge killing it with Vacuum Wave but that’s about it. Electivire’s Cross Chop is about the same as a Tyranitar Superpower so I just stuck with the harder parameter.

NOTE*** I Still have to redo calcs for the tankiness stats, as these are tenative and will be changed when I get more time.

Speed: Base 91 outspeeds Lucario and Rotom-H.
Base 96 positive outspeeds Electivire and Rotom-H if CAP 11 is neutral
Base 101 positive outspeeds notable base 100s including Zapdos and Jirachi.

The best option to me seemed to put CAP 11 at base 96 speed, so it could outspeed Rotom without the need of a nature boost. Electivire is also an issue for CAP 11, so that is the main target here. I had room to bump the speed up, though. Keep in mind that this spread is tentative and will change once I have time.

 

[GraffnTrix]

I don't think I'd be that amazing at making Stat submissions that would be viable in the metagame, but I'm glad to start a disscussion about them, and attempt it.

HP: First of all, with the limits and what I've seen from the disccussion so far, this is not going to be a glass cannon sweeper, nor any kind of tank. It seems to be well balanced. It must be able to take the hits Togekiss can't, and also hit hard, something that Togekiss lacks, yet not broken. This is a hard accomplishment. I submit that HP matters the least, and use the following logic. Let us consider Vaporeon as "bulky." It has a base HP of 130, and 95 Special Defense. This is plenty for CAP.


110


I submit 110 HP. Combined with my defences later on, it will be able to take any kind of hit.

Atk: Being a Fighting Dark, it really could go either way. We have Dark Pulse and Focus Blast as our Stab if it's Physical, and Crunch and Cross Chop for our atk. I submit that this should not be more than 110, as otherwise that's what it will be known for, it's high Atk stat.

95

I submit 95 Atk. It's enough for to attack fairly well, and also will have fair Special Attack, therefore allowing it to be customizeable, like Lucario.

Defense: How much do we want this to absorb? We don't usually think about killing Fighting/Dark types with normal attacks, and therefore, this can be the stat we sacrifice. It'll still need to take rocks aimed at Togekiss though.

77

So therefore, we won't need more than 77 defense.

But what about Special Attack? Can it be good? We need to ask our question, does it have to be? I believe no. If it has enough defenses to take attacks, it has turns to attack. I believe we should give it not that much of a sweeper anyway, just enough to do what you want it to.

90

I submit 100 Special attack. Combined with the raw power of Dark Pulse and Focus Blast, that'll be just fine.

Special Defense. That'll be what's attacking it the most, and therefore, it needs to be able to withstand the electric attacks pointed at Togekiss, and live to tell the tale.

109

So it needs some defense to be able to take those attacks. 109 is so it doesn't go over the limit in the Original Post.

66

I submit 66 speed, so as to outrun Vaporeon and the other 65 speed Eevee evos.

Let's recap.

HP 110
Attk 95
Def 77
Spatk 90
Spdef 109
Speed 66

It is not over the limits in the OP, and would be viable in OU. Discussions are appreciated.

 

[X-Act]

I just want to say something about what people are saying about BSR and high HP/mid defenses and stuff.

First of all, BSR is not a good measure of a Pokemon's ability, and it's not meant to be that. There are Pokemon that have low BSR (and BST), and they're still happily OU (Bronzong, Forretress), while others have high BSR (and BST) and are not (Entei, Arcanine). Stats alone do not tell the whole story, it's as simple as that. (Not to mention stuff like Regigigas and Slaking... and Wobbuffet.)

Secondly, about high HP/mid defenses being "better" than mid HP/high defenses. That is exactly my point as to why BST limits are really flawed. As Deck Knight has demonstrated, 140/65/65 tanks slightly better than 92/90/90 even though the first one is 270 BST and the second one is 272 BST. So, with this anomaly, it doesn't make sense for BST to even have a cap. I'll post an extremely exaggerated example: 37/145/145 tanks roughly the same as the other two spreads, and it has 327 BST. People see this spread and freak out, though, because "it has too much BST". I should know; I lost a stat spread submission once just because people thought that my spread had too much BST, when in fact it had the same defensive power (if not less!) than another spread having about 40 BST less. It is incredible just how much BST still influences us, really. And I'm sure that if I submit another "low HP, high defenses" spread for this guy, it will again be shot down.

The very fact that Deck Knight admits to "save BST" attests to my claim that you people still freak out when you see a Pokemon with 600 BST, when, in fact, the Pokemon with 600 BST may be worse compared to another one having 555 BST, say.

Consider the stat spread: 30/60/150/60/150/150, having 600 BST. Would you think that this stat spread is better than 95/100/90/100/90/80, having 555 BST? I guess you can tell me "depends on what the Pokemon is designed to do", but, considering attacking and defensive prowess, it is worse, even though it has a full 45 stat points more. BSR, however, correctly states that the first stat spread has a BSR of 271, while the second stat spread has a BSR of 321. So, BST correlates to BSR? I don't think so.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Whether we like it or not and whether it makes sense or not, BST is always going to play a (rather ethereal) part in stat spread submissions for CAPs. CAPs tend to be exaggerated in every aspect, so trying to neuter them a bit on the stat spread (by adding silly unofficial limitations to BST, for example) is a nice way to try to keep our CAPs within reason for OU.

I think this more comes into play with the power creep present in CAP, and the correct assertion you make that "Stats alone do not tell the whole story, it's as simple as that." CAP has a tendency to give its Pokemon the best of the best, and we all also try to factor in the "projected" movepool into our stat spreads. Sure, 180 SpA / 60 Spe only has an SS of 187 (R7), which is very comparable in BSR to 100 SpA / 115 Spe, that has an SS of 186 (R7). Despite this similarity, the higher BST one with the greater SpA stat is really frowned upon because we may end up getting Vacuum Wave on this CAP's movepool, which bypasses the lower Speed stat. I think we can all agree that a 100/115 CAP is not as terrifying as a 180/60 one, given the presence of things like Trick Room, Choice Scarf, and priority in our metagame. I know that you're already aware of this sort of thing, but it's specifically because stats alone don't paint the whole picture that we (well, I can only speak for myself here) place some ethereal and seemingly senseless limitations on exactly how extreme we allow ourselves to make stat spreads. If we were to be OK with people having 650 BSTs while still meeting the BSR requirements, we might end up with really exaggerated spreads that under specific conditions could be seriously broken in the metagame, despite what BSR tells us.

Deck and I weren't implying that BSR is wrong or bad in any way, rather that people tend to try to "game" it with extreme spreads where the faults can be made up for elsewhere or the extreme stats provide nice perks that the CAP can abuse. For instance, only 3/10 of our CAPs can actually have their Substitutes broken by Seismic Toss (All of those 3 are before CAP6, too), and this is mostly because of exorbitant HP stats used to "game" the BSR into being within the limits while enabling such a perk. That's the thing we're really trying to get away from.

 

[Zari]

Final Submission

My (Final) submission:

74 HP / 85 Atk / 95 Def / 101 SpA / 95 SpD / 105 Spe

PS: 151 -Rank 6, Very Good
PT: 138 - Rank 5, Good
SS: 183 - Rank 7, Excellent
ST: 136 - Rank 5, Good
BSR: 336 - Very Good

555 BST

First off, I'll explain my reasoning behind the HP stat; Base 74.

Why such a low HP stat? Simple; it provides a limit on what this cap can do EV wise. A lot of the other spreads I have seen submitted (not all, mind you, but there are quite a few) have HP of base 100 or above, something that has been done quite a bit in previous CAPs. Plus having a lower HP stat promotes the use of more offensive spreads; the TL himself has stated that he wants this to be an "offensive" combination between Togekiss and CAP11, which a lower base HP is more inclined to promote. Base 74 HP also gives a natural LO number; 289, perfect for an offensive CAP like CAP11. However, if you DO decide to go in a defensive route, dropping 252 EVs into HP nets you an extra point of leftovers recovery.


Next up, the Offenses stats; base 85 Atk / base 101 SpA

I didn't want this CAP to be excellent at going mixed, because, while that might prove beneficial to removing Togekiss's counters, it would also promote CAP11 to sweep on its own, which is something that goes against the concept; the two are supposed to work together, not apart. Base 85 attack is perfect for this CAP, because even with a -Nature (such as timid) you still 2hko Blissey with close combat using only 4 attack EVs. Base 101 SpA provides a punch, that, while it isn't very capable of sweeping on it's own, if passed a NP boost it becomes a potent threat.


Third, the defenses; both Base 95.

CAP 11 isn't supposed to take many hits, as it has been expressed that this is supposed to be a more offensively inclined duo. However, that isn't to say it can't have some defensive capabilities; with two base 95 stats and a leftovers HP number, you have a decent defensive partner that can support Togekiss, while still proving to be a threat with base 101 SpA. Togekiss can support CAP11; with 74 / 95 / 95 defenses, CAP11 should be able to do the same.

Finally, the speed stat; base 105.

Why 105 speed? Because it allows us to outrun zapdos and rotom, two key threats to this duo, while not being too fast at the same time. With 105 speed CAP11 will be fast, but not too much so; there will be things able to check it, and to counter it, which is what we want. The higher the speed is, the harder it is for it to have checks or counters. Considering that there are some OU pokemon that threaten CAP11 (such as infernape and gengar carrying focus blast), 105 speed allows these pokemon to become checks or counters this CAP.


Defensive calcs courtesy of Deck Knight:
(all of the following calcs assume a simple spread of 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe on CAP11 and a Timid nature)

[B][U]Defensive Calculations:[/U][/B]

[B]Defense Multiply damage by:[/B]
0.9 for positive Nature on CAP10
0.9 for opponent Neutral Nature
1.3 for Life Orb
1.5 for Choice Item

[B]When calculating boosts:[/B]

+1/Choice Band/Specs: 67%+ = OHKO, 36%+ = 2HKO
Life Orb: 77% + = OHKO, 42%+ = 2HKO
Expert Belt/Type Plate:  84%+ = OHKO , 45%+ = 2HKO

[B]405 Atk: Adamant Metagross/Dragonite/Tyranitar (approx.)[/B]
[Assume STAB if matches Steel/Psychic/Dragon/Rock/Dark]
Outrage: 79.2% - 93.8%
Meteor Mash: 66.8% - 78.9%
Stone Edge: 33.2% - 39.1%
Dragon Claw: 52.9% - 62.6%
Crunch: 13.1% - 15.6%
Zen Headbutt: 0%
Explosion: 221.5% - 260.9%
Focus Punch: 132.9% - 157.1%
Superpower: 106.6% - 126%
Earthquake: 44.6% - 52.6%
Aqua Tail: 40.1% - 47.4%
Extremespeed: 35.6% - 42.2%
Ice Punch: 33.2% - 39.4%

[B]394 Atk: Adamant Scizor/Breloom/Machamp/Mamoswine[/B]
[STAB where indicated]
Focus Punch: [STAB] 193.8% - 229.1%
Close Combat/Superpower: [STAB] 155.7% - 183.4%
Dynamicpunch: [STAB] 129.4% - 153.6%
Earthquake: [STAB] 64.7% - 76.8%
X-Scissor: [STAB] 51.9% - 61.6%
Seed Bomb: [STAB] 52.2% - 61.6%
U-turn: [STAB] 45.7% - 54%
Bullet Punch: [Tech] [STAB] 38.8% - 46%
Ice Shard: [STAB] 26.3% - 31.1%
Superpower: 103.8% - 122.5%
Earthquake: 43.3% - 51.2%
Stone Edge: 21.5% - 25.6%
Ice Punch: 32.5% - 38.4%
Pursuit: [Tech], (fleeing) 12.8% - 15.2%

[B]383 Atk: Adamant Gyarados/Heracross/Azelf/Honchkrow/Electivire (approx.)[/B]
[STAB where indicated]
Close Combat: [STAB] 151.6% - 178.5%
Megahorn:  [STAB] 75.4% - 89.3%
Bounce:  [STAB] 108% - 127.3%
Drill Peck:  [STAB] 100.3% - 119%
Sucker Punch:  [STAB] 12.5% - 14.9%
Zen Headbutt:  [STAB] 0%
Waterfall:  [STAB] 50.2% - 59.5%
Brick Break:  [STAB] 94.1% - 112.1%
Thunderpunch:  [STAB] 46.7% - 55.4%
Night Slash: [STAB] 10.7% - 12.8%
Pursuit:  [STAB], (fleeing) 12.5% - 14.9%
Explosion: 209.7% - 246.7%
Superpower: 101% - 119%
Cross Chop: 84.4% - 99.7%
Earthquake: 42.2% - 49.8%
Stone Edge: 21.1% - 24.9%
Brick Break: 63% - 74.7%
Ice Punch: 31.5% - 37.4%

[B]328 Atk: Adamant Flygon/Jirachi[/B]
[Assume STAB on Dragon/Ground/Steel/Psychic]
Outrage: 64.7% - 76.8%
Earthquake: 54% - 63.7%
Dragon Claw: 43.6% - 51.2%
Iron Head: 43.6% - 51.2%
Zen Headbutt: 0%
U-turn: 24.9% - 29.8%
Ice Punch: 27.3% - 32.2%

When calculating boosts:

+1/Choice Band/Specs: 67%+ = OHKO, 36%+ = 2HKO
Life Orb: 77% + = OHKO, 42%+ = 2HKO
Expert Belt/Type Plate:  84%+ = OHKO , 45%+ = 2HKO

[B]394 SpA: Modest Heatran/Gengar/Magnezone[/B]
[Assume STAB where indicated]
Fire Blast:  [STAB] 77.9% - 91.7%
Flamethrower:  [STAB] 61.6% - 73%
Thunderbolt:  [STAB] 61.6% - 73%
Sludge Bomb:  [STAB]  58.5% - 68.9%
Shadow Ball:  [STAB] 26% - 30.8%
Flash Cannon:  [STAB] 52.2% - 61.6%
Lave Plume:  [STAB] 52.2% - 61.6%
Thunderbolt: 41.2% - 48.8%
Dragon Pulse: 39.1% - 46%
Earth Power: 39.1% - 46%
Energy Ball: 34.9% - 41.2%
Hidden Power NVE: 15.2% - 18%
Hidden Power Neutral: 30.4% - 36%
Hidden Power SE: 60.9% - 72%

[B]383 SpA: Modest Zapdos/Azelf[/B]
[Assume STAB on Electric/Psychic]
Thunderbolt: 60.2% - 70.9%
Psychic: 0%
Heat Wave: 42.2% - 49.8%
Flamethrower: 40.1% - 47.4%
Hidden Power NVE: 14.5% - 17.3%
Hidden Power Neutral: 29.4% - 34.9%
Hidden Power SE: 58.8% - 69.9%

[B]350 SpA: Modest Jolteon/Empoleon (approx.)[/B]
[Assume STAB on [Water/Electric]
Thunderbolt: 55% - 64.7%
Hydro Pump: 69.9% - 82.4%
Surf: 55.4% - 65.4%
Ice Beam: 36.7% - 43.3%
Shadow Ball: 15.6% - 18.3%
Signal Beam: 29.1% - 33.9%
Grass Knot: will depend on weight decided upon
Hidden Power NVE: 13.5% - 15.9%
Hidden Power Neutral: 27.3% - 32.2%
Hidden Power SE: 54.7% - 64.4%

[B]339 SpA: Modest Rotom-A/Infernape (approx.)[/B]
[STAB where indicated]
Overheat:  [STAB] 77.9% - 91.7%
Fire Blast:  [STAB] 66.8% - 78.9%
Focus Blast: [STAB] 133.6% - 157.8%
Flamethrower: [STAB] 52.9% - 62.3%
Vacuum Wave:  [STAB] 45.7% - 54%
Thunderbolt:  [STAB] 52.9% - 62.6%
Shadow Ball:  [STAB] 22.1% - 26.3%
Overheat: 52.2% - 61.6%
Leaf Storm: 52.2% - 61.6%
Blizzard: 45% - 52.9%
Hydro Pump: 45% - 52.9%
Air Slash: 56.1% - 66.4%
Hidden Power NVE: 10-12%
Hidden Power Neutral: 20-24%
Hidden Power SE: 41-49% 

[B]328 SpA Modest: Celebi/Starmie/Jirachi/Dragonite[/B]
[Assume STAB on Grass/Water/Psychic/Steel/Dragon]
Leaf Storm: 75.8% - 89.3%
Draco Meteor: 75.8% - 89.3%
Hydro Pump: 64.7% - 76.8%
Fire Blast: 43.3% - 51.2%
Surf: 51.2% - 60.6%
Psychic: 0 %
Dragon Pulse: 48.8% - 57.4%
Energy Ball: 43.6% - 51.2%
Flash Cannon: 43.6% - 51.2%
Flamethrower: 34.3% - 40.5%
Ice Beam: 34.3% - 40.5%
Thunderbolt:34.3% - 40.5%
Grass Knot: tbd

Offensive Calculations:
(same spread as above, 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, Timid nature, no boosting item)
note: ttar calcs assume it has the SpD boost from SS

+1/Choice Band/Specs: 67%+ = OHKO, 36%+ = 2HKO
Life Orb: 77% + = OHKO, 42%+ = 2HKO
Expert Belt/Type Plate:  84%+ = OHKO , 45%+ = 2HKO

Aura Sphere vs ScarfTar (4 HP / 0 SpD): 98.2% - 115.8% 
vs BandTar (160 HP / 0 SpD): 88.2% - 103.9%

Close Combat vs ScarfTar (4HP / 0 Def): 109.9% - 131%
Close Combat vs BandTar (160 HP / 0 Def): 98.7% - 117.6%

Cross Chop vs ScarfTar (4HP / 0 Def): 92.4% - 109.9%
Cross Chop vs BandTar (160 HP / 0 Def): 82.9% - 98.7%

Vacuum Wave vs ScarfTar (4HP / 0 SpD): 43.3% - 52.6%
Vacuum Wave vs BandTar (160 HP / 0 SpD): 38.8% - 47.2%

Aura Sphere vs WishBliss (252 HP / 0 SpD): 26.9% - 31.9%
Close Combat vs WishBliss (252HP / 252 Def, Bold): 52.1% - 61.3%
Cross Chop vs WishBliss (252HP / 252 Def, Bold): 43.1% - 51.3%
Vacuum Wave vs WishBliss (252 HP / 0 SpD): 12% - 14.6%

Dark Pulse vs Defensive Rotom-A (252 HP / 0 SpD): 67.8% - 80.9%
Dark Pulse vs Choice Rotom-A (0 HP / 4 SpD): 85.5% - 102.1%

Dark Pulse vs PhysDef Zapdos (248 HP / 0 SpD): 31.3% - 37.1%
Ice Beam vs PhysDef Zapdos (248 HP / 0 SpD): 50.1% - 59%

Dark Pulse vs SpecDef Zapdos (248 HP / 228 SpD): 22.7% - 26.9%
Ice Beam vs SpecDef Zapdos (248 HP / 228 SpD): 36% - 42.8%

I think I covered most of the important things. For those who see the numbers in the defensive calcs being high--they're supposed to be that way. This is an offensive combination, not a defensive one. And as for the offensive calcs--all of these are done w/o any boosting item; with LO or specs or even a modest nature, the damage output will increase.

Good luck to everyone!