CAP 13 CAP 2 - Part 4 - Stat Spread Submissions

[Scoopapa]

HP: 60
Atk: 111
Def: 105
SpA: 90
SpD: 124
Spe: 85
BST: 575

60/111/105/90/124/85

PT: 135.3518
ST: 159.4807
PS: 160.8219
SS: 135.4689
BSR: 325.1578

Offenses: 111/90/85
PS: 160.8219
SS: 135.4689

Physical:
111 base Atk allows us to be very difficult to switch into with the right moves. The following calcs involve a Life Orb and max attack, Jolly unless otherwise noted. Skarmory is 2HKOed after SR by Sacred Fire (reliably OHKOed after SR by V-create with Adamant). Also cleanly 2HKOed with Flare Blitz or Bolt Strike. Heatran is OHKOed after SR by Close Combat, and almost always cleanly OHKOed by Hi Jump Kick. Dragonite is 2HKOed by Shadow Claw after SR. Gengar is OHKOed by Shadow Sneak after SR. Jolly can outspeed Skarm after a V-create and always 2HKO even if it Roosts. Tyranitar is cleanly OHKOed by Power Whip. The power hits a nice point where it can do a ton of damage but really wants SR to be on the field.
Special:
90 base SpA is higher than a lot of spreads on here but hardly overwhelming, especially considering the low BP of moves. I strongly caution against spreads going lower than this as I think it will be very difficult to make special sets work. The speed hits a good balance where Shell Smash will outspeed everything no sweat, Quiver Dance will be outsped by Scarfers after a boost, and Tail Glow will be relegated to wall breaking. At +3 a base 90 stat is the same as a base 135 stat at +2: this isn't exactly obscene considering the speed, but at the same time it's high enough not to feel like it would be outclassed by Nasty Plot off of higher SpA. Quiver Dance will need two boosts to really sweep effectively, which is good too.

Defenses:60/105/124
PT: 135.3518
ST: 159.4807

The low HP serves two purposes. First, it allows for effective use of Leech Seed, Pain Split, and Giga Drain. Second, it exaggerates the difference between 0 HP and 252 HP EV spreads. This helps keep offensive sets manageable and tankish sets viable. The special bulk is maxed out within limits in order to make the best use of our Water, Electric, and Grass resistances, and to survive super effective Hidden Powers. Obviously Heatran will murder this spread even as it sets up Quiver Dance (which is true of all legal spreads). The defense is lower, so that priority from the likes of Mamoswine, CB Scizor, LO Weavile and defensive Spiritomb will OHKO at -1 defense (for Shell Smash) and do solid but not quite fatal damage to Quiver Dance sets. It's still bulkier physically than Rotom-A, so he'll be able to take Earthquakes and deal with Breloom just fine.

What sets this spread apart from others?
Two primary things:

The Special Attack is higher than most spreads out there. I believe stats like 80 are too low and will make special sets too weak.

The Defense is lower in keeping with a sentiment repeatedly expressed in earlier threads that priority should keep this CAP in check. This is balanced by the special defense being as high as legally possible.

 

[LouisCyphre]

I've made a spreadsheet to show all the stat spreads submitted thus far in the thread side-by-side. Note that a number in red is illegal based on the limits set by Rising_Dusk in the OP.

Right now, the illegal entries are those belonging to verbatim, Typhlosion, UltiMario, FinalEquin0x, and remetagross.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...FFoa3BOWFJlN0Z5QkllQnRUNklRUnc&hl=en_US#gid=0

Reachzero more like Reachhero.

This is very helpful; I was trying to compare them in my head.

 

[ssbbm]

60 HP / 110 ATK / 100 DEF / 90 SPATK / 100 SPDEF/ 85 SPEED


i'll edit this post in later with more info :x i just don't want to forget this spread, haha

note: at -1/-1, cb bullet punch ohkoes after sr

 

[verbatim]

I've made a spreadsheet to show all the stat spreads submitted thus far in the thread side-by-side. Note that a number in red is illegal based on the limits set by Rising_Dusk in the OP.

Right now, the illegal entries are those belonging to verbatim, Typhlosion, UltiMario, FinalEquin0x, and remetagross.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...FFoa3BOWFJlN0Z5QkllQnRUNklRUnc&hl=en_US#gid=0

I apologize. My entry was valid under the DPP calculator. I have since changed the stats to 95 / 105 / 95 / 90 / 90 / 95, which are legal under the B/W calculator.

 

[UltiMario]

I've made a spreadsheet to show all the stat spreads submitted thus far in the thread side-by-side. Note that a number in red is illegal based on the limits set by Rising_Dusk in the OP.

Right now, the illegal entries are those belonging to verbatim, Typhlosion, UltiMario, FinalEquin0x, and remetagross.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...FFoa3BOWFJlN0Z5QkllQnRUNklRUnc&hl=en_US#gid=0

Can't believe I overlooked that error.

Fixed, edited into other post.

 

[Typhlosion]

Okay, here's my revised edition, so that it falls under the limits

HP: 93
Atk: 120
Def: 98
SpA: 95
SpD: 95
Spe: 84

PT: 164
ST: 159
PS: 174
SS: 142

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

I know there is a general bias towards hanging around in the 80's for Speed, but I'm pretty set on Deck Knight's spread. Being above the 110 tier is icing on the cake honestly. Yeah, 112 with every boosting move available can be wincing at first, but I think the spread does an impressive job of balancing it all out. 587 SpA after a Tail Glow? Seeing how others can reach that with +1 (and still run into trouble), I'm sure thatis manageable. In fact, would people be so open to even using a Special Attacker with only base 68 (of course they would, but I'd look at other options before even trying it)?

I like the idea of playing around with a fast sleeper again. If memory serves, this hasn't been around since DP (70 Accuracy Hypnosis on Gengar), and would be an interesting way to shake up the game again. I just like how you can fire off a lot of support/status moves first in general, though (fast Subs, Taunts, entry hazards).

Korski also has a good spread with 100 Speed and comparable defenses (Def is barely higher than DK's while SpD is slightly less than his). The lower offensive stats on DK's spread feels a little safer however.

 

[typon77]

FINAL STAT SPREAD SUBMISSION:

By the way, this is my first real CAP post, and first stat spread, so don't hate too much.

HP: 125
Atk: 97
Def: 79
SpA: 75
SpD: 76
Spe: 102

125/97/79/75/76/102

BST: 554

PT: 163.34 (Very Good)
ST: 155.21 (Very Good)
PS: 174.54 (Very Good) <----- Almost Excellent
SS: 134.85 (Good)

ODB: 1.53 (Slightly Biased towards Offense)
PSB: 6.97 (Moderately Biased towards Physical)

Overall Rating: 348 (Very Good)

Ok, this spread looks fairly unique. The first thing you probably noticed is the speed. 102 is the same trolly speed that Garchomp had, and is what helped get it banned (not saying thats the only reason). This set in my opinion perfectly captures the "Bulky Offense" focus. I'll go into detail on the stats

(Physical) Attack:
Well, 97 Attack may not seem like much, but it has access to every boosting move created, and it has good enough speed and bulk to pull off any of them. Using its 102 speed, it can also be a good choicer, utilizing any of the three choice items. However, it is more recommended to act as a set up sweeper, using one of the amazing attack boosting moves it has (Belly Drum, Shift Gear, Swords Dance etc), or a supportive attacker, using 2 or 3 attacks and a great support move (Spore, Perish Song)

Here are some unboosted calcs:

All calcs are assuming 252 Attack EV's and a Neutral nature:

V-Create vs. 252/252 Relaxed Tangrowth: 49% - 57.9%
" " vs. 252/232 Impish Skarmory: 55.1% - 65.3%
Wood Hammervs. 252/0 neutral Ttar: 49% - 57.9%
Hi Jump Kick vs. 252/252 Bold Blissey: 58.8% - 69.5%

As you can see, "Sketcher" can 2HKO some of the most defensive pokemon in the game with the right move, even unboosted with a neutral nature (though some require rocks/spikes). The reason I included Tangrowth is that physically defensive Tangrowth would wall the hell out of Sketcher's STAB's, but with the right Sketch move (V-Create), he can 2HKO it with rocks.

Special Attack isnt too notable, as I left enough for special sets with Tail Glow or Quiver Dance to be viable, but not too much, as it will have an insane special movepool most likely.

Defenses:

125/79/76

As you have noticed, this are some pretty good defenses. Although it goes against the kind of "Ghosts have Low HP" flavor (shut up Jellicent), I feel that High HP and lower defenses will let Sketchmon utilize its movepool more. One move that stands out for it defensively is Wish. With its huge HP and great defensive typing, this thing can switch in on a lot of nasty stuff and pass giant 227 HP Wishes (assuming Max HP). I'm really hoping that we give this thing either Stealth Rock or a Reliable recovery move, because that will let you use all sorts of crazy stuff with Sketch. It could use any hazard, Spore obviously, the options are literally endless. And, seeing as its a Ghost, it will almost definitely get Will-O-Wisp, meaning it will get a useful status move. Sadly, with these EV's, Scizor's CB Bullet Punch is only a 3HKO-4HKO with hazards and lefties, doing 29.7% - 35.2% with max HP and Def. Meaning that despite being Pursuit weak, Sketchmon can simply burn Scizor with WoW and render it useless. Also, offensive variants with just 4 HP EV's take 50% - 59.2% from CB BP, so Scizor can check weakened ones. Also after a Shell Smash, Sketchmon would take 75.3% - 88.8%, meaning there's a chance to OHKO with LO and Hazards.

Other notable Defensive Calcs:


0 Atk Ttar Crunch vs. 252/252 Def Positive Sketchmon: 49.1% - 58.6%

Can't avoid a 2HKO from Standard SR Mixed TTar's Crunch, meaning this mon will be very manageable, even with max Defense


252 Atk Adamant DNite Outrage vs. 252/252 Def Impish Sketchmon: 41% - 48.2%

I like this calc a lot. With DNite being so common, Sketchy can come in on the Outrage if there's no hazards and stall it out by Spamming its Recovery move (Roost, Recover, Softboiled). If Dragonite DD's on the switch, you take 60.8% - 71.6% from Outrage and burn it, then switch to your steel type. And if they're n00bs and think Fire Punch does more damage, you get even luckier and only take 50.7% - 59.9% from the +1 Fire Punch, then burn and switch to your appropriate pokemon.



Also, This thing is the best Belly Drum Linoone counter. Linoone's screwed if it doesnt run SClaw.

+6 252 Atk Adamant Linoone Seed Bomb vs. 252/252 Impish Sketchy: 23.3% - 27.5%

That's why you shouldnt use Linoone..... Actually there are many but this is the main reason not to use Linoone in the CAP metagame



Since I'm new, I'd like some feedback on my spread and my descriptions. Anything I can do better or improve in the spread.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

If you guys are updating your spreads, don't make new posts with the changes. Please update your original posts and leave it at that. I'll be going over spreads and choosing my slate about two days from now. When there are only 24 hours left, I will post a 24 hour warning. If you're still working on your spread, please read my second post in this thread here where I explain in detail the sort of thing I'm looking for.

Also, unless your explanations are impeccable, I hope that most serious spreads provide calculations for their spread. I want to see you back up your claims about how this works with facts that prove your points. Just posting a spread and not explaining it is akin to not submitting a spread at all. I won't be looking at submissions that don't back themselves up sufficiently. That may not demand calculations if you're convincing enough, but otherwise just do yourself a favor and run some (they're easy)!

 

[Spork]

Are the kind of informal, implied, and non-evidenced calculations (for example, saying 'this attack will always 2HKO after SR") that I and some others have employed going to be sufficient? I know exact numbers are somewhat helpful, but I already made a conscious decision not to make them explicit in an attempt to make my post slightly more concise. I understand that I probably need to include more examples at least, because so many of the calculations I did are implicit and easy to miss (like, saying "standard X outspeeds and KOs" I can see being too vague, because 'what is standard?' 'which move KOs?' 'does it need prior damage?' etc.) and there's a lot I didn't properly justify, but I dunno if that would require a list of actual calcs.

I know doing calcs isn't that hard, just wanted to clarify ;)

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Those are sufficient for some things, but are in general ugly for presentation purposes. There are also a lot more than just a few relevant calculations for 2HKOs or OHKOs, so keep that in mind. Usually more is better.

 

[AJC]

This is something I don't really agree with, since once you start considering other Pokemon, you really should be considering the metagame as well. The fact of the matter is that 90 base Atk hits just as hard as 90 base special attack. Still, I don't make the rules, so I post the BSRs anyways.

Also, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that, for example, your spread is closer to even offenses than mine. Your spread has PS and SS of 175 and 146, compared to my PS and SS of 136 and 141.

the main reason why SS is lower than PS is because of blissey and her sis chansey and their fatness that is the No.1 reason why special sweepers don't dominate.

there isn't anything like blissey for physical sweepers so it's much more easy for them to be better than their special attacking counterparts.

 

[Stratos]

Those are sufficient for some things, but are in general ugly for presentation purposes. There are also a lot more than just a few relevant calculations for 2HKOs or OHKOs, so keep that in mind. Usually more is better.

so you're saying that we SHOULD include calcs? this post is slightly confusing

 

[LouisCyphre]

Yes; he will accept informal ("Mon X is 2HKO'd with rocks") but he would prefer formal (Mon X - Draco Meteor 62.43 - 73.35%).

Time to analyze all of the stat spreads I am interested in!

101 / 121 / 91 / 97 / 87 / 81 - I'm not allowed to talk about myself but I'll post this to compare with the others while I type, and to show what I espouse.

103 / 96 / 73 / 68 / 89 / 112 - Deck Knight gives us a spread that reads like physical Galvantula - blazing fast, with high-powered STAB granted by typing. It makes estoric use of Sketch, playing with Spore, Sacred Fire, Fiery Dance, Water Spout/Eruption, Final Gambit, Perish Song, or other less-considered moves. I feel like this spread is most likely to employ Tail Glow or Belly Drum, and less likely to boost slowly with moves like Coil or Quiver Dance. It provides an excellent insight to Sketch, but sort of dances around being "bulky" offense. It can take special hits very well, though.

79 / 119 / 87 / 80 / 89 / 72 - Engineer Pikachu focuses on neutering CAP 2, forcing its EVs to do the talking and requiring it to sacrifice effectiveness on any front that doesn't fall directly in line with its chosen Sketch. This spread benefits much more from the high-powered boosters, requiring a +2 boost to reach above Scarf Hydreigon, and maximum SpA to dent foes with Tail Glow. It also calls for higher-powered moves, and weakens CAP 2's options for Sketch'd coverage in comparison. Engineer stresses Leech Seed, draining attacks, and Pain Split over Wish or Final Gambit. While it is a very effective spread in idea, I can't help but feel like this spread is too scared of Sketch - these are the kind of buttered-thin stats that took Mew to UU.

95 / 105 / 95 / 90 / 90 / 95 - verbatim espouses a moderately fast, almost Pixie-esque spread. This definitely calls Pokémon like Mew and Mesprit, who leverage their average stats with wide movepools to meet their ends. There aren't any particular standouts, and it still falls to CB Scizor Bullet Punch after Shell Smash. Fairly par for the course, outside of the Speed stat. Nothing negative or positive really stands out to me here.

72 / 93 / 115 / 103 / 92 / 80 - DetroitLolcat caught my eye right away with the Defense stat. It also rides the SS limit and lets PS fall by the wayside, differentiating itself from other spreads. Detroit stresses Physical all-out sets and Special boosting sets. This spread survives CBSBP, but falls much easier to Hydreigon or Heatran. This spread interests me, and provides a very interesting option along side the super-fast and specially defensive spreads.

81 / 124 / 79 / 91/ 104 / 76 - reachzero provides a Speed to undercut and submit to Heatran, first and formost. His defenses are Latios-inspired, inviting Scizor and ScarfTar, while edging out special attackers with bulk and CAP 2's excellent resistance palette. I'm quite comfortable with everything except undercutting Heatran, who walks all over CAP2 that Sketch'd anything besides Close Combat.

91 / 104 / 80 / 85 / 90 / 100 - Korski also draws draconic inspiration, from Flygon this time. He stresses the utility of the magic 100 base Speed, envisioning Quick-stall sets and Stallbreakers, with boosting sets as an afterthought. He bumps up Special bulk to give Coil an edge; it is a much stronger option at this speed. Hydreigon is still a threat even while outspeed, as it can switch into resisted STABs. He also wanted to exaggerate CBSBP and Pursuit as responses to CAP 2.

130 / 110 / 70 / 100 / 70 / 85 - bugmaniacbob tells the virtues of high HP in this spread, asking players to invest in Defense and Sp. Defense EVs before filling in HP. It also dimishes the value of draining moves and leech seed, while improving Wish and Final Gambit. It also makes CAP 2 an outstanding user of Transform. I'll admit that I'm less than comfortable with a Transform user with 464 HP, especially since other spreads also use it to great effect (or at least better effect than Ditto).

109 / 110 / 75 / 90 / 85 / 91 - Spork brings a relatively average spread for CAP 2 here. The Special offenses are comparable to Venomoth, a very respectable special sweeper. All of the stats are fairly justified, and as he mentions, Speed between 81 and Hydreigon is largely for show. The HP and Defenses put this spread roughly in the realm of Reuniclus, which I am a fan of. A very respectable and competantly middle-of-the-road spread.

75/ 111 / 93 / 84 / 109 / 83 - Jibaku justifies this spread by placing threats like Choice Scarf Terrakion between CAP 2's nature border - outsped if the nature is Speed-boosting, but outsped by if CAP 2's nature is otherwise. Jibaku draws the most obvious boosting inspiration by emulating the mons that put Quiver Dance and Shell Smash on the map - Volcarona and Cloyster. To that end, Cloyster-esque offenses (after considering worse physical STAB) and Volcarona-esque special bulk make a showing in this spread, such that the base stats are off by mere points. Another good showing for a specially defense spread, in my opinion.

72 / 120 / 108 / 96 / 96 / 84 - capefeather differentiates with pronounced attack and passable, but not exaggerated, bulk. His stats sit comfortably between "thresholds", such that EVs might not play as much of a part in CAP 2's role as they would with other spreads. I'm not sure how okay I am with that, but it also opens up more estoric EV spreads as an option. A very strong spread in my eyes.

Summary (list of my favorites by general gist)
High-Speed: Korski. Deck_Knight's spread is cool, but I don't feel like it's bulky offensive.
Physical Attacking: Capefeather or Jibaku. Other 110+ Attack spreads rail a mite too hard on speed or bulk, blocking CAP 2 from roles it should be able to excel at.
Special Attacking:Capefeather or Spork. Other spreads bring special attack too low or too high; either too scared to let Tail Glow take a crack at wallbreaking, or unaware of the damage a higher-end Tail Glow can inflict.
Physical Bulk: Capefeather (wow I am more of a fan than I thought, lol) or Spork, These spreads, to me, help streamline defensive sets by having HP that falls outside of the awkward zone between draining moves and Wish. Both have bulky offensive merits - either damaging foes to gain health, or doing far more damage and taking recoil.
Special Bulk: Deck_Knight, reachzero, or Jibaku. I really feel like CAP 2's special side needs to be stressed, but not inflated. Switching into common Surfs, Ice Beams, or Thunderbolts are important when dealing with a mon that scares off bulky waters anyway. Making CAP 2 a viable rain check gives it new niches without taking any away. CAP 2 gains nothing by having low special bulk, not even new reasons to invest in special bulk as it does with physical.

 

[petrie911]

the main reason why SS is lower than PS is because of blissey and her sis chansey and their fatness that is the No.1 reason why special sweepers don't dominate.

there isn't anything like blissey for physical sweepers so it's much more easy for them to be better than their special attacking counterparts.

Actually, that's not why. PS and SS are normalized with respect to other Pokemon's PS and SS. The PT or ST of other Pokemon do not factor in.

TBH, while PT and ST are fairly clearly valid, I've always found PS and SS a bit questionable. I should dig up XAct's old posts on the matter. Maybe there's some improvement to be had.

 

[Bughouse]

I'm leaning towards Jibaku's stat spread at this point. My only concern is the mammoth attack and decent speed. After one Shift Gear (running max speed and max+ attack) CAP2 reaches 530 speed and 530 attack (I think... there's no current Poke with 111 attack for me to check with.)

That's not a problem... as long as we are VERY careful with the movepool. For example, giving CAP2 Fire Punch (reasonable flavorwise tbh) could result in a set of Shift Gear, Shadow Claw, Wood Hammer, and Fire Punch. At only +1 attack, this set would be able to beat everything actually used in OU except for Dragonite, Heatran, and Salamence. This means that if CAP2 were also to get Ice Punch... (reasonable to give CAP2 all the elemental punches, since Ghosts usually can get them through breeding) then the ONLY reliable counter 100% of the time would be Heatran. And that's assuming CAP2 doesn't also get something like Brick Break. Basically, we'll have to walk a fine line to not restrict CAP2 to the point it is completely neutered on a Shift Gear set, but not make it into a guessing game like Salamence often was in 4th Gen OU.

And that's just Shift Gear. With Shell Smash, CAP2 would reach 706 attack along with its 530 speed. At that point, CAP2 would be able to 2HKO all but the very bulkiest Dragonite (if they switch into Stealth Rocks breaking Multiscale of course) with Shadow Claw. It also 2HKOs with Shadow Claw all but the bulkiest Salamences (even with Intimidate.) Ice Punch is therefore unnecessary on Shell Smash Sets. CAP2 on a Shell Smash set with Wood Hammer and Shadow Claw would only really need to worry about Heatran and Skarmory. (Forretress is not a problem really, since it can't hurt CAP2 much.) The problem with that is... completely uninvested in Special Attack and with a neutral nature, CAP2 after a Shell Smash hits 408 Special Attack and demolishes Heatran and Physically Defensive Skarm. Meaning that a Shell Smash, Wood Hammer, Shadow Claw, Aura Sphere set only worries about Specially Defensive Skarm and Bulky Scizor...

I'm rambling, but you get my drift.

tl;dr I like Jibaku's spread but if we elect to use his or a similar one, we will need to tailor the movepool ridiculously well to keep CAP2 out of UU and Ubers at the same time.

 

[LouisCyphre]

I can't think of a Grass-type that gets Fire Punch or Ice Punch in any way. And I ran calcs for 121 Attack - Shell Smash does not "2HKO everything except Dragonite"; there are several things it can not break, like Skarmory or Ferrothorn, that should be on your team anyway.

This is why we give it Seed Bomb or Horn Leech over Wood Hammer.

 

[Bughouse]

LouisCyphre, I'm saying if it gets Fire Punch. Which is not ludicrous at all. Dusclops/Dusknoir gets Fire Punch by level up. Gastly/Haunter/Gengar through breeding with Dusknoir among other methods. Sableye gets it through a move tutor.

Ghosts getting elemental punches is really not that strange. My point is, if you don't even give CAP2 any elemental punches, which tbh aren't even that powerful - only 75 BP for crying out loud! - then it will be completely useless on any sweeping sets. But if you do give CAP2 elemental punches, Shell Smash, and even Shift Gear, has the potential to become broken even with Jibaku's 111 base attack, let alone your 121 base attack.

I used Honko's calc tool. The numbers there don't lie.

EDIT: Also, as for grass types, Abomasnow gets Ice Punch (though that's a bit obvious of course.) Ludicolo also got Fire Punch and Ice Punch in R/S/E. It is rare, yes, but it has been done before. I'm just making a cautionary statement. If we give CAP2 even medium-strength coverage like the elemental punches, it can easily become broken. But if we don't give that coverage, it will be completely useless on an offensive set.

 

[ShravanP]

I have a similar concern as well. I feel that most of the stat spreads proposed so far, due to having very high Atk, will end up pigeonholing CAP2 during the Movepool stage. Now much of the following post here is based on aligning the current trend of thought (as I see it) with our decisions in the Concept Assessment and Threat Discussion stages. But note that I'm not making any hardcore predictions as such. This is just my understanding so far.

What we have decided we want from CAP2:

• We want CAP2 to explore as much of Sketch's potential as possible, so we want to allow it to competently play as many roles as possible. The movepool implication from this is that we probably want to give it competent STAB options on both ends of the spectrum (i.e. why would we ever want to run a Physical boosting set if it only gets Grass moves?).
• We want something that's "bulky offense", and all the spreads so far seem to fall in line with that.
• We also decided that Heatran, Jirachi, Skarmory, Dragonite, and Hydregion should preferably at least check CAP2, while Scizor's Bullet Punch should preferably OHKO after a Shell Smash.

Implicit in all of this is that CAP2 should not get any reliable coverage moves in its natural movepool, forcing it to either Sketch a boosting move or a strong coverage move. Please correct me if this assumption is not valid, but this is what I understand after reading Rising_Dusk's final post from Part 3:

There are definitely Pokemon, notably Heatran, Jirachi, and Skarmory that deal with CAP 2 through typing. CAP 2 will then likely respond to these threats by tinkering its Hidden Power and/or Sketch move, which will not allow it to appropriately tackle all of those three at once. We then have Dragonite and Hydreigon, which pose a big threat. This may be good, however; jas made a compelling argument that we should probably down the road think about 'handling' Dragonite but not Hydreigon. I think that the stats stage will be pivotal in succeeding there.

If this implication is valid and something that we all agree upon, then I don't see any concerns with the current stat spread submissions. However, if we don't want to make such a strong decision at this stage and want to keep our natural Physical coverage options open, then the current trend of very high values for Atk is not a good idea.

If we end up with a high Atk Pokemon (anything 105 and above, IMO), we are forced to either give up neutral Physical coverage (particularly against Steels), give it a really weak Physical movepool (with something like Horn Leech being the strongest STAB), or risk allowing a physical sweeper set that far outshines most other options (imagine something like Shift Gear / Leaf Blade / Shadow Claw / <Neutral or SE Coverage>).

If we choose to give up Physical coverage against Steels, a couple of additional effects happen that might take away from the goals we have set for CAP2. Let's assume a set of (Stat-up move / Physical Grass STAB / Physical Ghost STAB / <some other non-neutral-coverage move>).

• First effect is that Scizor goes from check to counter for almost every set of this nature. If the Stat-up move is not Coil and the final move is not some sort of crippling or healing move, Scizor has CAP2 helplessly trapped with Pursuit. Scizor was NOT in our original list of hardcore threats to CAP2.
• Second effect is that every other Steel type will render a Physical boosting set helpless unless that last moveslot has something (status, leech seed, etc.) to discourage them. Even Jirachi and Bronzong will give it some trouble.

If this is exactly what we want, then I have nothing further to add or argue. But if this is something that's not what we want, we might want to consider going with a lower Atk stat (maybe balanced by an increase in Spd) so that we have more options to explore during the movepool stage.

 

[LouisCyphre]

That was roughly what I envisioned, yes. I'd imagine that other submitters of high-Attack spreads feel the same. This encourages a distinction between boosting sets, which showcase CAP 2's natural coverage, and Choice sets which really put Sketch to work on creative coverage options such as Fiery Dance.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Hey guys, chill out. Stop polljumping and freaking yourself (and everyone else) out. There is a very good reason why movepool is after stats. If the voted in stat spread suddenly turns out to make Ice Punch / Fire Punch too strong to be naturally learned by CAP 2, then it won't get it. It's that simple. It's good to provide those calculations anyway, but don't let it stray you from the uniqueness of your submissions so long as you can back them up. The limits I've set will keep CAP 2 from blowing far out of proportion.

Anyway, I am putting this at closing at 2 days away from this post. I will update in roughly 24 hours with a 24 hour warning. In the meantime, you may continue to work on your stat spreads. A lot of users are completely ignoring my advice from my past couple of posts, which is really disheartening. Pay close attention to it or you risk not getting slated at all! Justify your work! If you can't write your submission in such a way that it would convince you beyond a shadow of a doubt, then how can you hope it will convince me? Keep that in mind! Good luck!

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Yeesh, there hasn't even been a new post since my last one! Anyway, as I promised, this is the 24 hour warning. At roughly this time 24 hours from now I will close the topic and convene with my council to create a slate... Really, I'll just pick the ones I think are best justified.

EDIT:
If you have any questions or concerns for me related to your spreads or anything, feel free to ask them. I'd be happy to discuss or elaborate on anything if it's necessary. I've already said my piece, though, so just checking my last few posts is a good starting point.

 

[Spork]

If we choose an attack stat that makes, say, Fire Punch crazy broken (lol), just give it Fire Fang. There's a whole spectrum of power when it comes to attacking moves.

 

[LouisCyphre]

Spork speaks truth. We have a realistic gamut of moves to consider for each coverage type. Drain Punch segues into Brick Break (poor secondary effect), into Low Sweep, into Force Palm, into Smellingsalt, into Karate Chop, into...

 

[Aldaron]

Here is my submission:

90 HP / 85 Attack / 85 Defense / 65 Special Attack / 80 Special Defense / 115 Speed

Numbers

HP: 90
Attack: 85
Defense: 85
Special Attack: 65
Special Defense: 80
Speed: 115
BST: 520

PS: 152.5616 (very good, but very high in that range)
SS: 120.0158 (above average, but high in that range)
PT: 140.1348 (good, but moderately high in that range)
ST: 132.4746 (good, but moderately low in that range)
BSR: 300.9256 (very good, but very low in that range)

ODB: 1.5248 (slightly biased towards offense)
PSB: 5.8895 (moderately biased towards physical)

I based these numbers on the following principles (note I am not saying this is what cap 2 HAS to be based on, just saying that for this specific cap, this is what I feel it should be based on):

Not cheating the system by giving it a high BST

I think anything higher than 550, Volcarona, the highest non legendary / 600 bst pokemon ignoring archeops due to its "same bst as pokedex number" gimmick, is cheating.

This BST is 520, below all the starters and justifiable using in game standards for a non legendary.

I also gave this a low very good BSR because Sketch is a powerful move. I know that Smeargle is not even OU, but that is due to non optimal typing, low general stats, terrible defenses, and moderate Speed. This will have none of that, so I tried to keep the overall BSR low, even though this only has 1 sketch. I felt bulky and higher Speed for only 1 Sketch was a good, balanced trade.

Attempting to stick with nice numbers for the stats (xx5 and xx0)

This isn't a determining factor by any means and I have no real problems with xx6 or xx8 or xx7 or xx3, but having nice, pretty numbers does make a Pokemon's conceptualization for newer / lesser familiar members much easier. I stuck with this for all stats so people could better conceptualize where this Pokemon's attributes stack up against other Pokemon in OU.

Giving the stat spread a unique flavor, for a decidedly unique Pokemon

Note that there is a significantly low number of OU-eligible Pokemon that have 110 or higher base Speed and are also moderately bulky. The only ones that can be argued are Crobat / Raikou / Serperior / Latias / Latios. I wanted to first push this towards unique by adding to that exclusive group. Next, I made it faster than Serperior / Latias / Latios to push it into an exclusive group with Crobat / Raikou. I thought this was a good place to end stat specific exclusivity because this Pokemon's typing helped separate it from the two remaining Pokemon by virtue of simultaneous Fighting / Water / Electric resistances and neutrality to Stealth Rock.

Sticking within the patterns / limits of cap 2 so far

You'll note that RD's limits have PS at +2 range levels above SS and +1 range level above PT and ST. I stuck with this pattern. We also wanted bulky offense as a direction for this, so I made this slightly biased towards offense, while sticking with RD's judgment call in making it more physical than special.

I also had to make sure that it can fully utilize its one sketch, meaning it can viably be used for any of offense, support, and defense without being broken.

This principle has various issues to consider.

Speed Justification

The most important factor in my mind, from the very beginning, has been that this have significantly high Speed, to be able to Substitute + Leech Seed stall (for Defensive sets), use Spikes / Spore / Stealth Rock efficiently (for Support sets), and function as a bulky sweeper by investing EVs in areas other than Speed since the physical side has Shift Gear, with +2 Speed, and the special side has Quiver Dance, +1 Speed and +1 Special Defense (for Offensive sets). This is extraordinarily important...High Speed ensures that this Pokemon can most effectively utilize Sketch.

Bulky Offense Justification

Before I start, here are various relevant max / max combo spreads:

HP and Attack: 384 HP / 295 Atk / 206 Def / 166 Spatk / 196 Spdef / 266 Speed

HP and Special Attack: 384 HP / 206 Atk / 206 Def / 251 SpAtk / 196 SpDef / 266 Speed

HP and Defense: 384 HP / 206 Atk / 295 Def / 166 SpAtk / 196 SpDef / 266 Speed

HP and Special Defense: 384 HP / 206 Atk / 206 Def / 166 SpAtk / 284 SpDef / 266 Speed

HP and Speed: 384 HP / 206 Atk / 206 Def / 166 SpAtk / 196 SpDef / 361 Speed

Attack and Special Attack (+Attack): 321 HP / 295 Atk / 206 Def / 229 SpAtk / 196 SpDef / 266 Speed

Attack and Special Attack (+SpAtk): 321 HP / 269 Atk / 206 Def / 251 SpAtk / 196 SpDef / 266 Speed

Attack and Speed (+Attack): 321 HP / 295 Atk / 206 Def / 166 SpAtk / 196 SpDef / 329 Speed

Attack and Speed (+Speed): 321 HP / 269 Atk / 206 Def / 166 SpAtk / 196 SpDef / 361 Speed

Special Attack and Speed (+SpAtk): 321 HP / 206 Atk / 206 Def / 251 SpAtk / 196 SpDef / 329 Speed

Special Attack and Speed (+Speed): 321 HP / 206 Atk / 206 Def / 229 SpAtk / 196 SpDef / 361 Speed

I next considered how to truly take advantage of Sketch with stats to make this BULKY offense.

For the physical side, with high Speed, I didn't have to worry about absolutely investing EVs in Speed. 266 minimum Speed allows me to reach 532 Speed with Shift Gear, enough to outspeed base 110 Choice Scarfers (and 108, Scarf Terrakion specifically) and then invest in HP and Attack to reach 384 HP / 295 Atk / 206 Def / 166 SpAtk / 196 Dpef / 266 Speed, allowing me to be both bulky and not overly broken offensively (even with good coverage moves, with 295 max Attack, it will be a cleaner, not a game breaking sweeper). Also, if you want to go pure power and run Swords Dance, this has the naturally high Speed you need to do so.

For the Special Side, I tried to push down Special Attack as much as reasonably possible. If you Sketch Tail Glow, your maximum +3 SpAtk at neutral nature is 687, which is actually right below Azelf / Porygon-Z / Thundurus at +2 and just a bit higher than Lucario / Infernape / Zoroark at +2 (the common Nasty Plot users in OU). Note, high Speed, high Special Attack potential, and great coverage made Thundurus broken in OU (arguably). Be sure to be careful with Tail Glow; +3 instead of +2 is a powerful mechanism, but with inferior offensive STAB and limitation on coverage, this can be controlled.

For boosting strategies with defensive benefits specifically, this spread's balance in HP / Defense / Special Defense allows you to use Coil (to boost Physical Defense concurrently with Physical Offense) or Quiver Dance (to boost Special Defense concurrently with Special Offense) efficiently.

For mixed boosting strategies (Work Up), this can reach just enough Special Attack to use "surprise" hidden power strategies than can knock out some potential counters, like Scizor or Heatran. With 108 Atk / 148 SpAtk / 252 Speed EVs +Speed (233 Atk / 203 SpAtk / 361 Speed stats), a Life Orb Work Up / Hidden Power set can always ohko min min Heatran and 252 HP Scizor with the appropriate Hidden Power (233 Atk let's it reach an offensive stat of 350, which is enough to deal damage on the physical side after it surprise KOs a counter Pokemon with Hidden Power). This allows for surprise versatility (a benefit for a Sketch Pokemon). And the minimum defensive stats, at 321 HP / 206 Defense / 196 Special Defense, allow it to achieve this with greater success.

Support Set Justification

I can see this running Spore / Leech Seed to benefit the team pivot wise, and with High Speed and decent bulk it can actually use both Spore and Leech Seed (possibly even in conjunction with Substitute to scout first) effectively.

For entry hazards sets, this will be the fastest Spiker in OU (ignoring Deoxys-S due to recent suspecting), and tied for third fastest viable Stealth Rocker (after Aerodactyl and Dugtrio). Again, the Speed + useful bulk help to ensure it can actually do this effectively.

Defensive Set Justification

This is where this Pokemon's typing and Sketch capacity really shine, but I don't mean specifically defensively. I just have it here because this is assumed to be defensive, but it's actually offensive. Sketch Sacred Fire, run Sacred Fire / Physical Grass Move / Substitute / Leech Seed. With this Speed, this set actually becomes offensive due to the combination of Burn from Sacred Fire + Leech Seed sapping + probable first Substitutes. You can choose to run Max Attack or Max Special Defense with Max Speed and just laugh your way to legitimately causing your opponent to rage quit. 321 HP / 284 Spdef is pretty bulky, and with 361 Speed, you'll be Substituting frequently as the opponent becomes infuriated with Burn + Leech Seed.

It's not just Sacred Fire though that can be used offensively with Leech Seed, Substitute, and High Speed. Cosmic Power also has viability, as this can run Substitute / Leech Seed / Cosmic Power / coverage move with Max HP and Speed to increase opponent fury. I can't emphasize just how significant high Speed is with a Grass type, as SubSeeding turns from an annoying defensive strategy to an annoying defensive strategy with legitimate offensive potential. Going first with Substitute is enough to change that entirely.

To summarize, I manipulated the stat spread to allow for bulky offense while also being effective at Support and Defensive sets (to take full advantage of Sketch). High Speed is the most important factor for this. Low initial attacking stats ensure this can be checked by various strategies, but access to high powered boosting moves, like Tail Glow / Swords Dance / Shift Gear / Quiver Dance / Coil, through Sketch and high Speed ensure it can be effective offensively should you decide to go the direct attacking route. Decent initial bulk means it can within reason get off those boosts, and also specialize in Defensive sets with Leech Seed and Substitute, such as Sacred Fire or Cosmic Power.