CAP 5 CAP 5 - Ability Discussion Thread

[X-Act]

Technician would be good for this Pokemon. Having a 90-power Special move of the type of your choice (Hidden Power) together with your STAB Rock move is very nice.

 

[Elevator Music]

Ancient Power as well if you don't mind having only 8 PP. Well, pokemon with Stone Edge get by...

And it gives us more room should we somehow not be able to fit in things like Flamethrower and Thunderbolt. A good Grass attack is nice too.

 

[Hyra]

Finally posting here, since more abilities were brought up besides Adaptability and Technician.

Gonna have to go with supporting Adaptability, Aftermath, Magnet Pull, Tinted Lens, and Speed Boost. Adaptability for duh reasons, Aftermath because it adds a whole new meaning to Suicide leads, Magnet Pull because killing Steel types with a Rock type would be fun to pull off (yay being weak to what you want to revenge), Tinted Lens to allow it to hit said Steel types, and Speed Boost because it just fits (and helps it revenge DDer's even better.)

 

[Yamaha]

Intimidate - It scares. :D

Frisk - To See Foe's items.

Levitate - YourGrandDead's Design would make sense for it.

Rough Skin - Those sharp things could have the Foe hurt.

 

[Recoil]

I also think that Tinted Lens, Aftermath and Technician would fit yDG's design.
I vote for the first two then. It would be awesome to see an Aftermath guy running around.

 

[sanjay120]

(sepecially since Shoddy averages all percents, instead of randomly selecting one)

Uh, no.

I am in full support of some combination of Tinted Lens/Aftermath/Technician.

 

[Genesis of Oblivion]

i was thinking-what about magnet pull/speed boost?#

or maybe speed boost/tinted lens-both would be devastating.

 

[tennisace]

Ending this Sunday at noon.

 

[ParadOxymoron]

or maybe speed boost/tinted lens-both would be devastating.

Haha, Yanmega much?

But yeah, one thing that noone's mentioned about Technician is that it would give pressing relevance to this article - http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/technician_hidden_powers - and having people think twice about their IVs? Is just another way to expand the metagame.

That said, I think that Dragon Pulse on this thing would be awesome, and Technician Hidden Power Dragon would make it pretty much obselete ... xP

In any case, some combination of Technician, Tinted Lens, and Aftermath on this thing is definitely the way to go. :D

 

[Goodbar]

I really don't like the idea of technician/speed boost/tinted lens. Ancient power should not be it's main rock STAB, it has a fairly decent 32% chance of getting the every stat boost from it using 5 ancient powers, and with it's stats, that boost could be game breaking for it. Tinted lens on something that fast is going to make switching in on it extremely difficult, it has 120 base spatk to work with too (and 130 speed). Speed Boost is just >_>, scarfed pokemon will probably be some of this guys main checks, but not with speed boost.

All of the CAP projects so far have gotten very useful abilities, maybe we can break the mold by giving this rockmon some more modest abilities. I really liked sniper, but now aftermath's been mentioned, and at least thats a good way to do a little damage when it dies (and it'll likely be dying to physical attacks). Levitate is good but not overly good I suppose.

And the silver part of this guy isn't metal, it's stone as I recall, so stuff like Magnet Pull shouldn't fit.

EDIT: Finding others as I browse the ability list...
Anger Point (he seems like he could be angry lol), Clear Body, Download (maybe...), Forewarn, Frisk, Heatproof, Immunity, Keen Eye, Oblivious, Reckless, Scrappy, Shell Armor, Soundproof

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

And the silver part of this guy isn't metal, it's stone as I recall, so stuff like Magnet Pull shouldn't fit.

Uh....there are some stones that do have magnetic charges with them. Magnetite is considered more of a stone than a metal and it has a magnetic charge to it. One could say that those gray stones are made of the same stuff as magnetite.

Edit: The term "Magnet" and "Magnetism" got their start from a Magnesia, a stone with magnetic properties

 

[ParadOxymoron]

Tinted lens on something that fast is going to make switching in on it extremely difficult, it has 120 base spatk to work with too (and 130 speed).

But .... but what about the lack of boosting moves?? :3

Besides, Lucario could still switch in.

 

[Goodbar]

Oh no it has a counter :O

G_T - thanks for pointing that out, interesting...

I also editted my post above with possible ability ideas...

 

[Slowking Lover]

Ok, while I was in my bed last night, I was thinking about the move Judgment. Expecting the Easter Island pokemon to win after shutting down for the night, I was thinking that it could lay judgment on its opponents. The problem with Judgment is that it relies on the plate held in order to be effective. As my thought process went on, this came to me.

Judger - Turns the move Judgment into the pokemon's primary type (on dual types, the pokemon's first type in hex would determine Judgment's type [ex: Grass/Ground types receive Grass Judgment])

Advantages:

1. Poke would not need a plate to get STAB on Judgment
2. Judgment receives 100 base power before STAB, the same base power as Stone Edge
3. The ability capitalizes on an already existing move

Disadvantages:

1. Ability might make it too overpowered
2. Might not "fit" as well on yDG's pokemon

I'm using a damage calculator to check the damage against Blissey, and a Modest Choice Specs Judgment with STAB due to Judger is about 200 hit points minimum and about 235 maximum (around 215 on average). This is all with a Blissey of 306 Special Defense so the numbers could very well vary.

If i'm allowed to refine my made up abilities (because you were right about them being too broken, Tennis):

1. Whiplash - Allows a one time evasion from the attack lock nature of Choice Items within the first five turns of battle (then chosen move remains locked)
2. Boggle Down - Self changed stats carry over to the next pokemon on the switch out (Baton Passed stats don't count)
3. Stabilize - This pokemon can not receive status conditions on the switch in (does not count confusion, attract, etc.; can still recieve satus after switching in.)
4. Cruncher - The effect of Sandstorm on Special Defense is 2X instead of 1.5X on this pokemon (all other rock types still get the normal 1.5X boost)
5. Psy Shock - The special version of Intimidate (I had the idea thought up last night, but I couldn't think of a good name for it)

If any of these abilities are still broken, feel free to tell me. I'm willing to accept if an ability is broken even when fine tuned.

 

[darkjjak]

I like Levitate...granted it's a bit overused. I also took a look at YDG's art again, and I'm going to suggest (if it hasn't been already) Compound Eyes.

The only new ability I'd advocate for this would be a special version of Intimidate. I'm surprised one hasn't been made yet.

I'd much rather put some elbow grease into a new special Rock move for this.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Although, I gotta say, Aftermath does sound pretty awesome. If this thing could have three abilities, Technician / Tinted Lens / Aftermath would pretty much make mah life.

Hmm, paradOxymoron, I think Tinted Lens is an inferior ability compared to the other two.
Effectively what Tinted Lens does is make it less feasible to run a Special Sweeping set since your STAB move will hit almost everything for neutral damage at least.
This makes running things like Flamethrower and Ice Beam redundant, which means that this pokemon will have less variety in its standard movesets.
Yanmega, who has Tinted Lens, has two STAB types to use with its attacks, which still allows for some variety. However, Rockmon, having just the one type, will not benefit nearly as much from Tinted Lens.

Technician, on the other hand, really does increase the variety of this pokemon. It allows it to have a decent strength STAB move (90 base power STAB Ancientpower) without having to make up a new move (which goes against CAP imo, I was against Mountaineer too).
Also, since Ancientpower is effectively useless on everything else, it will become the trademark attack of this pokemon, much like Tri Attack on Porygon-Z or Aerial Ace on Scyther or Bullet Punch on Scizor.

Technician also allows it to use a very wide range of Special attacks - the Hidden Powers. It can run any HP with a power of 60 and have it turn into a base 90 special attack.
This means plenty of very new and original attacks such as HP Fight 60 being just as strong as Aura Sphere, and being able to use attacking types it might not be able to otherwise (such as Bug, Flying, Grass, Water, etc.).

So that's why I think Technician would be an AMAZING ability for this pokemon, giving it strong STAB and variety in moves which let it stand out from the crowd.
And it won't be overpowered either like Adaptability would be. Technician wont't give it anything over a base power 90 STAB move in Ancientpower, whereas Adaptability gives it too much in 300 base power Head Smash, etc.

And Aftermath sounds like an excellent ability too. If the opponent has a weakened pokemon and they think you're running Technician, you can surprise them by taking them down with you as you die.

Just my 2 cents.

<

 

[Headpunch]

Alright, Levitate is an obvious choice purely due to the fact that it fits the artwork perfectly. Those that left it out of their suggestions should realize this. Moving on, I believe Arena Trap, Frisk, Inner Focus, Quick Feet (for the actual effect; not its name, mind you), Steadfast, Compoundeyes, Technician, and Tinted Lens are all sound choices for abilities. I would mention Hyper Cutter, but it would obviously be far from viable.

 

[tennisace]

Judger - Turns the move Judgment into the pokemon's primary type (on dual types, the pokemon's first type in hex would determine Judgment's type [ex: Grass/Ground types receive Grass Judgment])

Advantages:

1. Poke would not need a plate to get STAB on Judgment
2. Judgment receives 100 base power before STAB, the same base power as Stone Edge
3. The ability capitalizes on an already existing move

Disadvantages:

1. Ability might make it too overpowered
2. Might not "fit" as well on yDG's pokemon

I'm using a damage calculator to check the damage against Blissey, and a Modest Choice Specs Judgment with STAB due to Judger is about 200 hit points minimum and about 235 maximum (around 215 on average). This is all with a Blissey of 306 Special Defense so the numbers could very well vary.

Judgment is an Arceus exclusive move. I'm not sure if Metronome can select it, but if not you can't get it legally in-game, until Nintendo releases Arceus. Therefore it doesn't exist yet iirc.

If i'm allowed to refine my made up abilities (because you were right about them being too broken, Tennis):

1. Whiplash - Allows a one time evasion from the attack lock nature of Choice Items within the first five turns of battle (then chosen move remains locked)
2. Boggle Down - Self changed stats carry over to the next pokemon on the switch out (Baton Passed stats don't count)
3. Stabilize - This pokemon can not receive status conditions on the switch in (does not count confusion, attract, etc.; can still recieve satus after switching in.)
4. Cruncher - The effect of Sandstorm on Special Defense is 2X instead of 1.5X on this pokemon (all other rock types still get the normal 1.5X boost)
5. Psy Shock - The special version of Intimidate (I had the idea thought up last night, but I couldn't think of a good name for it)

If any of these abilities are still broken, feel free to tell me. I'm willing to accept if an ability is broken even when fine tuned.

Oh you can keep refining them. I still don't like the idea of Boggle Down, since it requires changing game mechanics to work. Whiplash also would have to change mechanics.

As for the last three: Spamming Thunder Wave/Toxic Spikes is going to be a good strategy to stop this (provided no Levitate). Getting rid of that is kinda unfair. It would basically leave Bullet Punch Scizor/Metagross/Lucario or Mach Punch Revenankh as counters. Psy Shock has been shot down a bunch of times, and I don't see yDG's design as "intimidating" really. Cruncher turns this into a better SubCM Kou, along with Psy Shock to a degree.

 

[Aldaron]

Going to repost my last post, just to get further discussion on the significance of what I brought up.

Since this is first and foremost a "break the mold" Pokemon, we really should stick with that idea.

That said, what I did in this post was "break the mold" by not allowing this thing to have any abilities that other Rock Types or high speed high special attack Pokemon had.

I then chose all the abilities I thought would be somewhat useful, and I threw together at the bottom.

When it comes to the first ability polls, I really think this method (for this "break the mold" pokemon) is the most non arbitrary, and I would like some opinion regarding this.

Btw, since this is a Pokemon meant to break the mold, I don't think we should shy away from this fact.

A good, non arbitrary place to start would be saying we won't give it an ability that other Rock types have. I made a quick little list that shows how many of each ability that Rock Pokemon. I only used fully evolved pokemon, except when the underevolved had different abilities. I might have missed a few though, as when I went down the list I only looked at the pre-evos that I knew had different one.

[SIZE=2]Rock Head IIIIIII[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Sturdy IIIIIII[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Swift Swim III[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Levitate II[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Battle Armor II[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Shell Armor[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Lightning Rod[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Pressure[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Gluttony[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Magma Armor[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Flame Body[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Hustle[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Natural Cure[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Guts[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Shed Skin[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Sandstream[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Magnet Pull[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Suction Cups[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Clear Body[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Mold Breaker[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Solid Rock[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Multitype[/SIZE]

Basically, count the number of I's; if there is no I, it is just one Pokemon having it.

If we go by this, I think we can set a good non arbitrary point to build off of.

Sure, Levitate looks decent on this thing, but two Rock Pokemon already get it.

I think this also shows that we shouldn't put Rock Head or Sturdy on this, lol.

EDIT: I also went ahead and made a list of the abilities known by the Pokemon that had +100 in both SpAtk and Speed.

[SIZE=2]Synchronize III[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Inner Focus[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Levitate IIIII[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Natural Cure III[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Blaze III[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Bad Dreams[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Pressure IIIII[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Serene Grace II[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Hydration[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Static [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Lightening Rod[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Intimidate[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Overgrow[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Illuminate[/SIZE]

This gives extra incentive for us not to give this thing Levitate or Pressure.

What other molds does our guy kind of fit into? I've taken into account typing and base stats.

EDIT #2: OK, decided to make a list of all the abilities besides the one in the previous two lists. I also added a brief little comment regarding my feeling for each ability. Also, I did this fast, so please point out any list issues. I am sure I missed some things / made a mistake somewhere (I edited in Tinted Lens lol), so please look for any problems.

[SIZE=2]Adaptibility (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Aftermath (not really useful)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Air Lock (no need for another CaP to have this)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Anger Point (possible though not really useful so no for me)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Anticipation (lol not useful)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Arena Trap (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Chlorophyll (nope)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Cloud Nine (no need for another CaP to get something like this)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Color Change (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Compound Eyes (possible but a CaP already has it, I like to be different =D)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Cute Charm (possible, though it isn't really cute..)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Damp (possible, though not too useful since it resists SD / explosion anyway)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Download (not a computer thingy)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Drizzle (no)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Drought (no)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Dry Skin (has rocky skin I guess but I just don't see it)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Early Bird (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Effect Spore (no spores to speak of)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Filter (possible I guess)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Flash Fire (no lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Flower Gift (no flower)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Forecast (don't see this forecasting the weather while it is burrowing through the ground lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Forewarn (useless like anticipation)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Frisk (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Heatproof (pointless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Honey Gather (lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Huge Power (let's not go there)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Hyper Cutter (pointless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Ice Body (doesn't have an icy body...)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Immunity (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Insomnia (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Iron Fist (possible though useless so no for me)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Keen Eye (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Klutz (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Leaf Guard (no leaves)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Limber (it doesn't look limber)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Liquid Ooze (no liquid ooze lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Magic Guard (let's keep this solely on Clefable)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Marvel Scale (hmm interesting, I'll go with possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Minus (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Motor Drive (no electricity to speak of)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]No Guard (let's keep this solely on Machamp)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Normalize (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Oblivious (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Own Tempo (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Pickup (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Plus (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Poison Heal (doesn't make sense)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Poison Point (well it does have pointy rocks...so possible I guess)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Pure Power (let's not go there)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Quick Feet (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Rain Dish (uhhh no lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Reckless (possible though really useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Rivalry (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Rough Skin (not too useful)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Run Away (lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Sand Veil (let's not go here lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Scrappy (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Shadow Tag (no)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Shield Dust (I guess rocks can grind and make sand for dusty stuff...so possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Simple (let's keep this on Bibarel)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Skill Link (really only useful for one move)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Slow Start (regigigas)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Sniper (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Snow Cloak (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Snow Warning (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Solar Power (no)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Soundproof (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Speed Boost (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Stall (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Steadfast (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Stench (useless)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Sticky Hold (nothing really sticky here)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Storm Drain (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Super Luck (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Swarm (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Tangled Feet (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Technician (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Thick Fat (no fat)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Tinted Lens (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Torrent (nope, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Trace (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Truant (lol)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Unaware (let's keep this on bibarel)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Unburden (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Vital Spirit (possible)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Volt Absorb (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Water Absorb (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Water Veil (no, type issue)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]White Smoke (no smoke)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Wonder Guard (no lol)[/SIZE]

Alright, I then made two smaller lists with questionable abilities and decent ones:

Questionable: (aftermath, Air Lock, Anger Point, Cloud Nine, Compound Eyes, Cute Charm, Filter, Iron Fist, Keen Eye, Reckless, Rivalry, Rough Skin, Skill Link, Tangled Feet)

Decent possibilities: (Adaptibility, Arena Trap, Color Change, Early Bird, Frisk, Immunity, Insomnia, Klutz, Marvel Scale, Oblivious, Own Tempo, Quick Feet, Scrappy, Shield Dust, Sniper, Soundproof, Speed Boost, Steadfast, Super Luck, Technician, Tinted Lens, Trace, Unburden, Vital Spirit)

Out of the ones in the decent possibilities, I would rather no Color Change, Frisk, Oblivious, Own Tempo, Shield Dust, Soundproof, Arena Trap or Speed Boost . The first 6 because I don't think they are too useful, and no Speed Boost or Arena Trap because I think they are too useful, lol.

That would make my personal list of abilities to consider (hopefully final this time lol):

Adaptibility, Early Bird, Immunity, Insomnia, Klutz, Marvel Scale, Quick Feet, Scrappy, Sniper, Steadfast, Super Luck, Technician, Tinted Lens, Trace, Unburden, Vital Spirit

 

[the_artic_one]

Hey, Forewarn is a lot better than anticipation, it's at least as useful as frisk.

 

[Goodbar]

I'd say frisk is a lot more useful, knowing the opponents item helps discern what type of set its running. And I would be in favor of frisk. You made a real nice post there aldaron that I missed... I'm still vehemently against technician though, the rest I could live with but sniper/frisk/scrappy/immunity are probably my favorites that you listed

 

[Darth Meanie]

Nthing the Lens/Technician/Aftermath, with preference on aftermath and lens

 

[the_artic_one]

I'd say frisk is a lot more useful, knowing the opponents item helps discern what type of set its running. And I would be in favor of frisk. You made a real nice post there aldaron that I missed... I'm still vehemently against technician though, the rest I could live with but sniper/frisk/scrappy/immunity are probably my favorites that you listed

Knowing their highest bp move can help you figure out their set as well, we had this discussion in the last CaP.

 

[HD]

I love Sniper. If my memory is correct 2 'mon get it, and one usually uses Swift Swim(Kingdra). Super Luck is also good, because I like luck. Frisk is useful for revenge killing purposes with a scarfer. So my choice is:
Sniper/Super Luck/Frisk
Guys can you please steer away from Technician and Adaptility.
I want Rockmon to get some decent powered moves and a new rock type move.

 

[Roserade Raider]

As YDG"S has won, I think that sniper, adaptability, or levitate would work. I'm just worried that with these ideas, it is too much like Porygon-Z