CAP 5 CAP 5 - Base Stat Submissions

[Flash_gearz]

Thats not a fact, the fact is, we can make whatever strong attacks we want. So can we all not assume that this will get no strong attacks, and not base our spreads on whether or not it will or won't get any given attack?

What I meant to say was it won't get any strong stab attack. Stongest would be the 70 Base attack one. Unless we make a new attack, which we haven't done yet(I think). Stab would give is 115 BP. Which is rather weak most used STAbs are 90BP

 

[darkie]

..That's exactly what tennis is saying not to think. We can make a 90 BP, 120 BP, 140 BP, whatever, special Rock move if the community votes on it.

 

[Hyra]

..That's exactly what tennis is saying not to think. We can make a 90 BP, 120 BP, 140 BP, whatever, special Rock move if the community votes on it.

Don't forget 150, 200, and 250!!!!

Those are Attack BP's that have already been done.

(I have nothing else relevant to say)

 

[blakcharz77]

I think this may a little too strong, and am considering revizing...

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

I think this may a little too strong, and am considering revizing...

It isn't, mine's much stronger and faster and no-one's been bitching about it being broken. Then again I've only got one comment from it.

EDIT: The ONE COMMENT about my BST spread: V

My current favorite spread. I like the 140 special attack because of the crappy stab it gets but it's not quite going nuts because it's close to alakazam/azelf etc. So yeah, loving this spread.

 

[omgthatkid]

85/45/65/120/100/140
Physical Sweepiness: 75 Moderately Bad
Physical Tankiness: 93 Average
Special Sweepiness: 197 Amazing
Special Tankiness: 132 Good
ODB: 21.9 Bias to Offense
PSB: -72.2 Extreme Bias to Special
Overall Rating: 437 Excellent
BST: 555

HP: 85 is a rather decent number, allowing it to come in on a number of attacks, survive a few Seismic Tosses/Night Shades, and overall provides decent but not too amazing survivability. Considering the fact that this Pokemon is going to be more of a sweeper than some sort of sandstorm-reliant tank, Hp is nearly irrelevant.
Atk: We don't need a physically offensive Rock Type, period. 45 is a "fairly retardified" number, meaning it's low enough to be useless, but not too low just for the purpose of unfairly allocating base stat points elsewhere.
Def: Relatively low, but not too much. Decent enough to survive (unlike Alakazam, to whom this CAP is being compared), but not enough to take continual assaults from various physical Pokemon (Sarfchomp?). The only Pokemon that can OHKO CAP 5 from priority moves are Metagross and Breloom, both of which need a Choice Band and max Attack in order to establish a guaranteed OHKO.
SpA: I wanted a relatively high number, but not too high to completely throw Technician out the window. I'm really going to vie for that ability. I want it for it's ability to power up Ancient Power, as well as other low Base Power moves. Not only that, but I think any higher than 120 would make for an overpowered sweeper. Think of this Pokemon as a faster, slightly stronger, bulkier version of Jolteon with more offensive options.
SpD: Rather bulky, actually. Usually, in sandstorm, most Rock types get a "survivability" boost rather than one that makes their special defense stats an asset. It's above average now, but it'll be an amazing stat to work with in sandstorm.
Spe: Ah, the meat of it all, and the major selling point of my spread. 140 allows it to tie with Electrode, merely for the company (I highly doubt you'll meet an Electrode in OU). Not only that, but I didn't want to arbitrarily create some new speed tier. We've had enough of that. It also guarantees outspeeding Jolteon, Crobat, Aerodactyl, and Weavile with a +Speed nature. With a +Special Attack nature, it can still outspeed Dugtrio, Sceptile, Alakazam, Azelf, Starmie, Syclant and a number of other rather fast-paced sweepers.

I didn't want any overkill with the Special Attack, and thought Speed should be the primary focus of this CAP.
I also made this set with the possibilty of Technician to boost STAB moves, or possibly a shallower that desired movepool to hinder coverage. I don't want to see this CAP turn into some sort of 180/180+ amazing movepool Pokemon. It's just not happening.

What's so unique about my spread? The fact that it's one of, if not the fastest and fairest (I will refrain from criticizing some rather...sub-par and outrageous stat spreads...). With a +SpAtk nature, it will still outspeed base 120 Pokemon and Syclant running +Speed natures, and also has an offense beating base 135 Pokemon running +Speed natures. So essentially a +Special Attack nature will make it's stats resemble a +Speed Alakazam. The reason I paired 140 Speed with 120 Special Attack as opposed to 120 Speed paired with 135 Special Attack is because I wanted more leniency in terms of Speed. +Speed natures are more popular than +SpAtk natures because of the importance of Speed in our metagame. Therefore, I wanted to couple a decent, though not overly powerful SpAtk stat with a very lenient Speed stat, while also making CAP 5 fast enough to outspeed or overpower Pokemon with similar stats to 135/120 (Such as Alakazam and Weavile).

DAMAGE CALCULATIONS:
LOOK, HOW BULKY!:
(All of the following calculations include sandstorm's effect. All Grass Knots are assumed to have 120 Base Power. CAP 5 has minimum EV investment)
Modest, max SpA Life Azelf's Grass Knot: 78-93%
Minimum SpA Celebi's Leaf Storm: 66-77%
Modest max SpA Life Orb Gengar's Focus Blast: 80-95%
Modest max SpA Infernape's Grass Knot: 69-81%
Modest max SpA Specs Jirachi's Grass Knot: 77-91%
Modest max SpA Specs Heatran's Earth Power: 69-82%
Timid max SpA/spe Scarf Heatran's Earth Power (outspeeds base 140's by 1 point with max Speed): 63-75%
Modest max SpA Specs Togekiss's Aura Sphere: 66-78%
Modest max SpA Specs Lucario's Aura Sphere: 93-110%
-You see where this is going-
LOOK, HOW STRONG!:
Modest Specs Power Gem vs Max Hp/ Min SpD Togekiss: 85-100%
Modest Specs Technician Ancient Power: 109-128%
Modest Specs Earth Power vs Max Hp/ Min SpD Metagross: 92-108%
Modest Specs Earth Power vs Max Hp/ Max SpD Heatran: 110-130%
Modest Specs Earth Power vs Max Hp/ Min SpD Jirachi: 76-89%
Modest Specs Earth Power vs Max Hp/ Min SpD Infernape: 138- 162%
Modest Specs Earth Power vs Min Hp/ Min SpD Jolteon: 113-134%
Modest Specs Earth Power vs Min Hp/ Min SpD Lucario: 140-166%
Modest Specs Power Gem vs Min Hp/ Min SpD Mamoswine: 77-91%
Modest Specs Technician Ancient Power: 99-116%
Modest Specs Power Gem vs Min Hp/ Min SpD Weavile: 290-343%
Modest Specs Techician Ancient Power: 373-440%
Modest Specs Power Gem vs Min Hp/ Min SpD Gengar: 103-122%
Modest Specs Technician Ancient Power: 133-145%



DO NOT ASSUME IT WILL GET TECHNICIAN!!!

I guess I'm done.

 

[Frosty]

I guess it won't hurt to provide a spread myself, so here it is:

Yes, it is incredibly similar to X-act's spread, but I wanted something capable of at least tieing at speed with weavile, which is why I decided to finish a spread I had in mind earlier. But if you consider mine too similar to X-act's, then by all means choose his.

Anyway:

HP: I admit that we already have 2 rock pokes with 100 hp (t-tar and relicanth), but the average is around 70 or so, so I went with that. 100 is just enough to 101hp subs in case you want to go that route. There isn't much more to say here...I guess.

Atk: If it weren't for Blissey I would give it like...10 atk or so without looking back. BUT since it does exist, 60 it is. 60 is just enough to 2HKO Blissey with Head Smash or Focus Punch using minimum EV investment with SR support and a Life Orb. Sure, I can't assume that this will get Head Smash or Focus Punch, but it is good enough to have an idea of it's potential power.

Def: Low enough to compensate for the high HP. Max Attack Jolly Weavile has a pretty good shot at OHKOing this with an unboosted Brick Break, provided that you go first, of course.

SpAtk: Same Spatk as the likes of Roserade and Azelf, and we all know how dangerous those two can be. It is just enough to OHKO a switch-in Aerodactyl on Sandstorm with LO and a 90 BP rock attack (weather ball, hypothetical new move, adaptability power gem, technician ancient power, etc etc etc) and 2HKO Togekiss (without SR). Also, it OHKOes Weavile with Power Gem, so a battle between the two will be a quite fun coin flip <_<.

Spdef: I wanted something like Mismagius: Special sweeper, but able to take special hits well enough. Fun fact: Standard Togekiss can't 2HKO this poke with an unboosted Aura Sphere if you have sandstorm on the field. So if you really want a poke capable of facing togekiss, this may please you.

Speed: I didn't want this poke to be too easy to revenge kill, so I gave him enough speed to face properly two of the best revenge killers you will find: Dugtrio and Weavile.


And that is it.

 

[Leman]

I'm gonna submit a spread. :O

The Spread:
63/70/64/125/93/118

Defense:
63 HP, hits an even 330 when maxed out. It's sub par, but this thing is not made to take a hit. It can, however, take most specially based hits without dieing. (Provided they are not Surf, Energy Ball [and Grass Knot if this turns out to be heavy], Focus Blast/Aura Sphere, or Earth Power) For example, it can switch in and survive a Timid Choice Spec'd Gengar's Shadow Ball, even if Stealth Rocks is in play. (Skipping ahead, he can OHKO that same Gengar with a Choice Spec'd Tech'd Ancient Power, and/or an Expert Boost Psychic/Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball)

64 Def is the bare minimum that he can take. It and the Attack sort of embody the whole Low Atk/Def that a "Braking the Mold" Rock type will most definitely need. Basically the benchmark that I used was 0 Atk EV Modest Heatran's Explosion. At max damage, he's left at 3 HP. So basically that means he's a pretty good counter to choice'd variants of Heatran, as long as he watches out for Earth Power.

93 SDef seems high for a Rock, but again, thats what we need to "Break the Mold". I basically thought about this stat last, dumping the Stats needed to get to 540 BST. (Yes, I know BSt doesn't matter but I needed some sort of benchmark) 95 SDef though is acctually pretty good. Takes some powerful not SE hits, and in Sandstorm it can probably take at least one SE Special attack.

Offense:
70 Atk ensures a 3HKO on Blissey(0 HP/252 Def; Calm) with Close Combat (0 Atk EVs, Neutral Nature), and it has a chance of 2HKOing with a Life Orb. Stealth Rocks insure that 2HKO. Explosion almost always OHKO's with a Life Orb, and the same EV spread, if Stealth Rocks is down. A couple more EVs would be necessary to ensure the OHKO. Thats really all I wanted to be able to do with this number.

125 SAtk is the core offense of the set. It sits just 5 base points below Pokemon like Gengar, Heatran, Megnezone, and Latios (without Sould Dew).It has an ok chance of OHKOing Yache Garchomp with Ice Beam with a Life Orb, and with Stealth Rocks, Choice Specs Ice Beam is an insured OHKO. Not many Pokemon can boast that. I think this number is really good, to be able to but a huge dent into most teams.

118 Spd makes it so that it can outspeed Garchomp without a Speed boosting nature. I didn't want to go much higher than that, since I already gave it a high SAtk. Something like 131 Base speed would be just insane. This way its certainly revenge kill-able. The real worst part about the speed (I think) is the fact that Dugtrio can out-speed and OHKO. Then again, I didn't really want it to become Deoxys-S v.2.


Using X-Act's applet:
Physical Sweepiness: 111 Rank:1 Above Average
Physical Tankiness: 79 Rank: -2 Moderately Bad
Special Sweepiness: 203 Rank: 7 Amazing
Special Tankiness: 107 Rank: 0 Average
Offense/Defense Balance: 36.2 Large Bias to Offense
Physical/Special Balance: -47.2 Extreme Bias to Special
Overall Rating: 418 Very Good

That fits the ODB, PSB, and BSR that were given. :)

Well there's what I came up with. :D (Final Spread)

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Decided to team up with Mr. Goodbar with this spread. I have faith that our spread will pull through to the end.

Special Attack: Having the same attack points as Weavile, and he does quite well with it I might add. It's relative high toward Rock type Pokemon, but considerable average when considered to other OU sweepers. Can leave some pretty big dents in some Pokemon. Now let assume* that CAP5 gets Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Earth Power, and Shadow Ball with Power Gem given on those moves there let's see how much damage it could do.

Power Gem

Life Orb'd Rockmon using Power Gem on a Standard Togekiss: [B]50% - 59.68%[/B]
2HKO with SS and/or SR up.

Lifed Orb'd Rockmon using Power Gem on 0/0 Gengar: [B]68.2% - 80.84%[/B]
Another 2HKO by Rockmon. Be warned that Gengar do carry Choice Scarf

Against Weavile: [B]126.69% - 150.18%[/B]
Killed that damn weasel. Got to worry about speed ties though.

Against 216/0 Bulkydos: [B]73.25% - 86.23%[/B]
87% chance of OHKO with SR up.

Against 120/0 Salamence: [B]98.61% - 116.9%[/B]
OHKO with SR up

Against 252/220 Calm Zapdos: [B]57.81% - 68.75%[/B]

Against 0/0 Infernape: [B]70.65% - 83.28%[/B]
Both Zapdos and Infernape are 2HKO regardless of SR

Ice Beam

Life Orb'd Rockmon using Ice Beam on 252/0 Celebi: [B]62.87% - 74.26%[/B]
Can't switch into it without losing alot of Hp in the process.

6/0 Dragonite: [B]117.28% - 138.89%[/B]
Sala and Nite are down for the count.

Shadow Ball

Lifed Orb'd Rockmon using Shadow Ball on a 0/0 Gengar: [B]104.21% - 123.37%[/B]
Smother that damn shadow to death.

Against 20/0 Cresseila: [B]44.04% - 52.33%[/B]
I think we have someone who can stand up against it.

Against 252/0 Celebi: [B]52.97% - 62.87%[/B]
2HKO with Rock's up

Earth Power

Life Orb'd Earth Power to 252/0 T-tar faces: 59.9% - 70.79% ([B]40.1% - 47.52%[/B])
Pray you get a special defense drop upon switch in.

204/172 Calm Tentacruel: [B]69.32% - 81.82%[/B]
A wonderful 2HKO on the jellyfish.

Against 40/0 Heatran: [B]138.14% - 163.36%[/B]

Against 0/0 Infernape: [B]121.5% - 143.34%[/B]

Against 252/0 Jirachi: [B]59.9% - 70.79%[/B]

Thunderbolt

Against 160/0 Starmie: [B]97.01% - 114.29%[/B]
OHKO with SR up.

Against 124/0 Milotic: [B]58.01% - 68.51%[/B]
Easy 2HKO on the water fish.

Against 216/0 Bulkydos: [B]131.95% - 155.84%[/B]
Just in case people wanted to see what it could do to Dos with TB

Speed: 130 in speed means that Syclant can no longer outspeed you in any such way, which is freaking great.

What does it outspeed?:
80 base speed Scarfers (Neutral natured)
Everyone below 130

What does it tie with?:
Aerodactly and the rest of the 130 crew.

What does outspeed it? This is here for the sake of countering it via speed:
Pokemon with 131+ base speed
Choice Scarfers with 264+ in speed
Fighting and Steel type priority moves.

[Special]Defense: Average defenses to counteract it's powerful special attack. It's physical defense isn't very high but it does allow it to survive weak neutral moves and not very effective moves from enemies. CAP5's special defense when under sand turned from 176 to 264. The extra boost in Special Defense combine with HP actually allow him to survive more stronger blows than it's defense.

Notable numbers concerning its defenses...
372 is the attack needed for a sure OHKO with EQ, no boosting item (the attack reached from adamant +attack base 120s)
312 is attack needed for a sure OHKO with seed bomb/waterfall (base 80 move), no boosting item but with stab/cb, 358 no stab with life orb (bulky gyarados can't reach this)

380 is the SpA needed for a sure OHKO with grass knot at maximum power, with LO, in sandstorm (azelf/infernape can't reach this)
321 is the SpA needed for a sure OHKO with surf, with LO and stab, in sandstorm (timid max SpA starmie cannot reach this)

Hmm Starmie max spatk life orb will ko ~58% of the time, though it seems most use leftovers. It takes surfs fairly well from bulky waters in SS, being left with at least 15% health including rocks, which is nice but not ridiculously good. If this thing turns out to be heavy, bold celebi's grass knot at max power will never ohko even with rocks up (though it'll have a small fraction of health left only :P). With 8 SpD EVs a choice specs togekiss's aura sphere will never ohko, sadly a standard NP togekiss will ohko with a boosted aura sphere. Metagross with max attack and lefties can OHK this with SR down every time, but earth power with LO would do a 72.5%-85.7% to a max HP/min SpD Metagross if it decided to pursuit instead.

Attack: Basically it's high enough for use in a gimmick Choice Band set, but otherwise not usable. I don't know what else to say about it since it's no going to be used much.

HP: A respectable 321 without EVs is something few Rock type Pokemon have. It helps cushion blows taken on the special side when Sandstorm is up. It probably would allow for some non-OHKOs on the physical side, but judging from all those physical monsters in OU not likely.

* Assume as in let's pretend it do have those moves.

There's nothing either I nor Mr. Goodbar could add, so call it our final spread.

 

[omgthatkid]

Wow, Gothic Togekiss and Mr. Goodbar make me feel like my spread is inferior just because of the explanation....
Maybe you guys just went overboard.
Yea...that's it!

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Wow, Gothic Togekiss and Mr. Goodbar make me feel like my spread is inferior just because of the explanation....
Maybe you guys just went overboard.
Yea...that's it!

LOL I know, I'm a bit surprised by it myself. I just wanted to explain my spread with all my might and maybe...just maybe I truly did went overboard on it.

 

[1059860]

I guess I'll post in the picture format as well.

There's a reason for everything:
* Medium HP: Can take some nonchalant damages, since it is weak to 5 types. Won't be able to take severe damages put together with its mediocre defenses.
* Mediocre Defense: Same reason as above. Nowhere near the average of Rock types to break the mold.
* Mediocre Special Defense: Can take some damages in Sandstorm, but pretty frail outside of it. Not super frail though.
* Good Special Attack: Built for special sweeping after all, breaking the mold, of course. Much higher than its Attack so it shouldn't be pulled to be used as a physical attacker.
* Low Attack: Not meant to be used for physical attacks, but still there if you want to pull something weird like ExtremeSpeed Togekiss, for surprises.
* High Speed: 128 Speed to ANNOY Sky-Shaymin! Super-Effective STAB Rock attacks :).
* Stat Spread: Since we're BREAKING THE MOLD, let the stats do so as well. No stat ends in 5 or 0. BST is 534, same as Infernape.

In text form:
HP: 72
Attack: 52
Defense: 81
Sp.Atk: 114
Sp.Def: 87
Speed: 128

THIS IS MY FINAL SPREAD.

 

[X-Act]

Don't we still have to vote for 20 to 30, 30 to 40, and >40 for ODB, and -20 to -30, -30 to -40 and <-40 for PSB? And the BSR poll hasn't finished. I think submitting a Bast Stat spread now would be premature when the Style, Build and Rating polls haven't ended yet!

 

[1059860]

Well consider this X-Act, if Excellent wins, this thing will be somewhat of another Alakazam, with a better typing (Rock hits more Super effectives in OU than Psychic) and better defense. I wouldn't see how that will not be broken.

 

[beej]

Alakazam's defensive typing is considerably better. :/

 

[Coronis]

I'm changing my spread because of some recent polls...

HP:95
Atk:75
Def:70
SpA:115
SpD:95
Spe:130
BST:560

Physical Sweepiness:119(above average)
Physical Tankiness:105(average)
Special Sweepiness:186(amazing)
Special Tankiness:135(good)

Offense/Defense Balance:17.8(moderate bias to offense)
Physical/Special Balance:-38.4(large bias to special)

BSR:508(excellent)

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Alakazam's defensive typing is considerably better. :/

Yeah considering Psychic's two weakness toward Rock's five weakness. Rock really got the short end of the stick when it came to resistance&weakness.

Dumb question but are we allow to make correction on "finalized" stat spread if the winning stat rating is one your spread isn't within? Right now, my faith for the community is slowly writhing away with the rating poll going on >_>

 

[Darth Meanie]

Alakazam has a very good base stat, I know because I experimented with making this guy a 'zam clone for a BST.

 

[X-Act]

EDIT: I now see that the style build and bias polls have been changed. I was wrongfooted because the changes weren't updated in the CAP process thread. Ignore my question.

 

[linton]

HP: 100
Atk: 34
Def: 50
SpA: 140
SpD: 80
Spe: 120

HP is for some remote for of living an attack. 50 Def and 80 SpD to brake the mold

140 SpA is for the lack of insainly good STAB. 120 Spe for being quick allowing to outspeed Starmie, Infernape and other Pokemon in that boat.

EDIT: BST is 524 so it's not that high

 

[X-Act]

Yeah, I think people can only finalise their stat spreads once the current poll on BSR is finished.

 

[Goodbar]

Meh, well adding 10 spdef to ours would probably allow it to take some hits better, like the LO starmie may turn into a 2hko and timid scarftran earth power into a possible 3hko, and putting the BSR at 421 lol...

 

[dekzeh]

HP: 105
Rock-types usually have a pretty low HP. The only rock types exactly at or a little over 100 base HP are Rhydon, Rhyperior, Tyranitar and Relicanth. The main point here is the ability to use 101HP substitutes allowing it to beat Blissey one-on-one with either Focus Punch or Calm Mind.

Atk: 65
Just enough to make decent use of Focus Punch (it has the same base atk as Gengar). With a few EVs invested, it can 2HKO bold Blissey.

Def: 60
Pretty low, but can take a neutral hit or two, especially if it invests enough EVs here. Makes a somewhat defensive set with Calm Mind viable, but clearly not optimal.

SpA: 115
I don't want a very high SpA since I think it should get SpA boosting moves (mostly like not Nasty Plot, but Calm Mind would be good).

SpD: 80
Decent SpD and good HP means it can switch on some hits like Heatran's Fire Blast or a defensive Zapdos Thunderbolt. Under sandstorm, it can be very sturdy on the special side.

Spe: 120
Outspeeds the 115 group (mainly for Starmie). Also forces Rockmon to always max speed or it can easily be Dugtrio bait.

TOTAL: 545

This spread I'm submitting is good mainly since it can be very versatile. It allows Rockmon to run a Substitute set with either Focus Punch or Calm Mind (assuming it gets any) or an all-out attacker with Life Orb + a SpA boosting move (or not!), it also allows you to run a +SDef nature and counter a few threats under sandstorm (Heatran, Togekiss), and huh, Specs Rockmon can be pretty deadly too! Scarf Rockmon can make a good revenge killer, etc.

 

[omgthatkid]

Tennis, I edited my post that includes my spread because Excellent is winning.
Also, you put someone else's spread in my spread's place in the OP >_<.

 

[beej]

Yeah considering Psychic's two weakness toward Rock's five weakness. Rock really got the short end of the stick when it came to resistance&weakness.

Dumb question but are we allow to make correction on "finalized" stat spread if the winning stat rating is one your spread isn't within? Right now, my faith for the community is slowly writhing away with the rating poll going on >_>

It's not just that it has more weaks, it's what those weaks ARE. Alakazam is only weak to what are basically indentical types, Ghost and Dark. While these are pretty standard, they can be gotten away with rather easily. Pokemon like Regirock prove how hard it is to have a Rock-type wall, whereas Cresselia and Uxie are fantastic. They could probably even get away with not having levitate. Rock is weak to Fighting, Ground, Water, Grass and Steel. The only one of those that isn't a standard attacking type is Steel, and both Metagross and Scizor use Steel-type moves prominently. In the end, yes, I WOULD say that Rock is a worse defensive type.