Outrage is also an option on the SDer
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Pokémon Charizard
- Thread starter X5Dragon
- Start date
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I'm currently running a team with Infernape in it (In White 2) so what are people's thoughts on replacing him with Char X?
More to the point, is the drop in speed going to seriously hurt?
More to the point, is the drop in speed going to seriously hurt?
running this
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Belly Drum
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
its pretty hilarious, not being weak to priority while having physical bulk is awesome, roosting on sucker punches is awesome, bellyzard is awesome, etc etc
dd might be better overall but remove shit like chomp and noivern and such and its pretty much open season (100 speed tier sucks)
probably wants wish support, to get in with 100%. spinner is obv
tip- togekiss is a pal
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Belly Drum
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
its pretty hilarious, not being weak to priority while having physical bulk is awesome, roosting on sucker punches is awesome, bellyzard is awesome, etc etc
dd might be better overall but remove shit like chomp and noivern and such and its pretty much open season (100 speed tier sucks)
probably wants wish support, to get in with 100%. spinner is obv
tip- togekiss is a pal
Nice blast from the past. I've tried this set, but prefered outrage to dragon claw as the sheer power of a +6 120 bp STAB attack is frightening, and I dislike relying on flare blitz when I'm often starting at half health from belly drum. You'll obviously have to take out any fairies first, and if you can, steel types, but this set has crazy damage potential. Also its one of the few where outrage makes sense. My only complaint is no speed boosters, so maybe a switch from flare blitz to flame charge, but flare blitz comes in handy if you can't get belly drum off. Its worth noting that +6 outrage can 2HKO every steel type in the book, and even 1HKO some of them, and if you wanted versatility, you'd go for the DD set.
True enough. That's why I'm gonna be making a Blastoise and an Excadrill for that purpose.
No priority... Klefki is going to paralyze you and end your sweeping.
Imo until you get a DD in, then yes it is gonna hurt. I mean, my Jolly ZardY got outsped by a freaking scarfed Magnezone. I mean, really?
I really don't see the point in Outrage when you're have a mon with base 130 atk fully invested at +6 with STAB AND Tough Claws. What on earth lives that whilst also living Flare Blitz?(Answer- Physically Defensive Heatran, thats about it, and it'll need EP to do anything worthwhile, not to mention there is no Heatran yet.) Even Azumarill, being immune to DClaw and resisting Flare Blitz and having respectable bulk, is well and truly OHKOed even if it were to run 252/252+ bulk and there were no SR. There is absolutely nothing that Outrage KOes in the current meta that DClaw does not.
And the point is you Roost to mitigate BDrum and Blitz recoil, Zard has the bulk to do that in the face of the overwhelming physical attackers I see running around. Its easy to just Roost on a Mega Mawile for example to then avoid the followup KO from Sucker Punch.
So in that regard its just as good as any other Zard set.
In regards to other priority though, Aegislash needs an SD to 2HKO Zard with Rocks (which it won't get), non-banded Azumarill cannot 2hko with Aqua Jet. While this IS assuming full hp Zard, double switching Zard into something like Ferrothorn or Scizor etc can easily net you a BD+Roost.
Talonflame is a legitimate threat though.
Well... most Heatran run Earth Power and have Air Ballon. Also, Slowbro checks this.
+6 252 Atk Charizard Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 294-347 (74.8 - 88.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Charizard Outrage vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 529-624 (134.6 - 158.77%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also, Choice-Scarf Rotom-W can check you easily.
And Quagsire too, 252 Atk Charizard Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 157-186 (39.84 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Latios twins can also check easily. And unless you run Outrage, Dragonite can ruin your fun any day with Extreme Speed.
+6 252 Atk Charizard Outrage vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 394-465 (100.25 - 118.32%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dragon Claw Jolly Char X OHKO's Slowbro at +6 clean. Outrage isn't good on Char X in this metagame when it's his coverage that makes him shine. Yes, EQ is a 2HKO, but why would Slowbro come in on an EQ and why wouldn't a +6 Zard Dragon Claw it. Even at +4 Dragon Claw has a 75% chance to OHKO physical Slowbro. How exactly does Slowbro check it? Even with sticky web or paralysis support Slowbro isn't outspeeding him (unless you've got both).
+6 252 Atk Life Orb(Tough Claws) Charizard(Jolly) Dragon Claw(STAB) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 458-539 (116.24 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Quagsire and Rotom-W are pretty valid responses. Latios twins outspeed so.
However, it doesn't matter if you run Outrage or Dragon Claw with Zard when it comes to Dnite. Neither is going to change the outcome if you're unboosted and neither is going to change the outcome once you are at +6. Multiscale Dragonite is not going to survive +6 Dragon Claw. Whether you have Outrage or not isn't going to stop the thing from Espeeding you when Zard is weakened.
+6 252 Atk Life Orb(Tough Claws) Charizard(Jolly) Dragon Claw(STAB) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Slowbro: 458-539 (116.24 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Quagsire and Rotom-W are pretty valid responses. Latios twins outspeed so.
However, it doesn't matter if you run Outrage or Dragon Claw with Zard when it comes to Dnite. Neither is going to change the outcome if you're unboosted and neither is going to change the outcome once you are at +6. Multiscale Dragonite is not going to survive +6 Dragon Claw. Whether you have Outrage or not isn't going to stop the thing from Espeeding you when Zard is weakened.
Did you even read the set I posted? Nowhere in my set do I have EQ, I'm running Megazard X, who easily OHKOs Slowbro with +6 Dragon Claw.
Latios twins do not exist yet.
And X Zard has the physical bulk to suck up non-banded E-speeds from Nite after a drum, and even Banded ones presuming SR wasn't down.
Rotom-W is not a valid response when it gets motored down by a D-Claw before it can do anything, unless they're running scarf. Quagsire...not a threatening poke. Just don't drum when they have a Quagsire around. Thats dumb. Patience is a virtue.
Also, greninja'd while writing this post.
Latios twins do not exist yet.
And X Zard has the physical bulk to suck up non-banded E-speeds from Nite after a drum, and even Banded ones presuming SR wasn't down.
Rotom-W is not a valid response when it gets motored down by a D-Claw before it can do anything, unless they're running scarf. Quagsire...not a threatening poke. Just don't drum when they have a Quagsire around. Thats dumb. Patience is a virtue.
Also, greninja'd while writing this post.
So, what about partners for Zard? I find that Salamence and him are total monster team once they get going, with mence usually finishing what Zard started. Ferrothorn is a good pivot for him thanks to that x4 fire resist of his, allowing him to set up on the switch. Togekiss is a good fairy pivot, as he seems to attract Equake users (which mence or kiss can switch into). I've tried running a defogger, but frankly, since most of them are flying types, it usually isn't very advantageous, even when running something like empoleon with SR as well, though I might be using them wrong (and Mandibuzz is hilarously good at killing setup sweepers, tanking their hits and just destroying them with their own boosts thanks to foul play, wish I could fit her in better because sadly she didn't play that well for me). I find having a dedicated hazard setter/wall in Ferrothorn and a spinner (haven't settled on one yet, been using Drill for now) to be more convenient. Its the 6th spot that is the trickiest to fill, need something more specially inclined either offensive or defensive but nothing has clicked yet (Blissey hasn't been working for me).
Skarmory covers Megazard X's weaknesses near perfectly, but Togekiss can do Wish and T-Wave and stuff, whereas Skarm is kinda stuck with just Spiking things. Rotom-W is good, but then Rotom-W is a good partner for near everything it seems. Mamoswine works well, Scizor too. Bronzong could be nice with Dual screens to let Zard set up whenever he likes whilst having great defensive synergy.
Yeah Rotom-W is solid and so is Mamo, have tried them both, though would like to explore other options as they (especially Rotom) are fairly standard and not exactly the build I'm going for (bulky offense/set up sweeping, which I assume would be HO? - though not as much hazard use, so I might be doing a poor job of it haha). Skarm is great, its more a case of what moves to use with her, as I want to keep offensive pressure on as much as possible rather than just spike/stall. Scizor is a great mon, but I found him being a bit of 6th wheel in my zard team, not really adding much value where it was really needed (e.g. tanking an ice hit/getting rid of pesky hazard users). Bronzong I haven't considered, so will give that a shot. I tried a defensive Gardevoir for a while, she was solid - she counters MKangha pretty well as none of MKangha's moves (bar return) hit her hard enough, and she copies MKangha's awesome ability which gives her great utility for a while.
Charizard X might be everyones favorite golden boy, but I think Charizard-Y is pretty decent in standard too.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD/ 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solarbeam
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse
This thing is just brutal. Short of Tyranitar and Goodra, nothing wants to switch in. Those 2 are the reason why Focus Blast and Dragon Pulse are used btw 90% of the time you want to use Fire Blast, but when they show up you pretty much need to slam them with those coverage moves.
I tried getting Roost to work, but I never got a chance to use it. It was kill or be killed, heh.
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD/ 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solarbeam
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse
This thing is just brutal. Short of Tyranitar and Goodra, nothing wants to switch in. Those 2 are the reason why Focus Blast and Dragon Pulse are used btw 90% of the time you want to use Fire Blast, but when they show up you pretty much need to slam them with those coverage moves.
I tried getting Roost to work, but I never got a chance to use it. It was kill or be killed, heh.
Char X and Char Y do such a great job at tearing open teams at the right moment, notwithstanding the ridiculous power from either Mega-Evo, but the fact that the two has such vastly different counters can lead to the loss of even more team members due to a misprediction: I'm sure the likes of any Goodra which gets shredded by Charizard X and Hippowdons obliterated by Charizard Y can relate.
Indeed, I think the main issue with trying to deal with Megazard is the fact that before it evolves, you have no idea what you're dealing with, and they play significantly differently. That surprise factor is really killer and something the other Mega's can't boast.
I've been using Char Y and I can attest to this. However, I would think that Hidden Power Ground would be better instead of Focus Blast, if your issue are Flash Fire users. Hidden Power Ground hits Heatran for the same as Focus Blast, but with infinitely better accuracy. We have coverage for Ice and Rock 'mons already, and as for Dark mons, I can't think of any that would withstand any of ZardY's other moves except for Ttar and maybe Mandibuzz, but that thing isn't even fazed by Focus Blast. As for Ttar, I mostly just call it a day and switch to my other mons that can take care of him.
On a different note, I've been using a Rayquaza-mence offence, but using ZardY-Kyurem-B instead. They resist each other's weaknesses bar Rock, and the damage they put out to the table is monstrous.
Pretty much this. Charizard is the only Mega to get two Mega Evos aside from Mewtwo who has a Snowflake's chances in hell to drop from Ubers, and that alone gives a unpredictable factor about which Zard the opponent is running. A good Example was when Someone predicted the Zard X and went for Earthquake but it was a YZard and it proceeded to annihilate the rest of his team because he mispredicted.
Base 100 is still decent. Anyone got some Calcs on what Zard X at + 6 can do with Flame Charge? The biggest problem with Flame Charge is it's low 50 Base Power and if your using Belly Drum and you don't kill your opponent, your in a situation.
You could. I'd probably just use Sticky Web support on a team with Belly Zard X, though. Or you could use both and sweep even the choice scarfers like a god Dragon.
I don't know what the Calcs would be for Flame Charge, though.
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