Cobalion

One of my fav new pokes. It's inferior to SD lucario imo. The lack of power, ES and Crunch really hurts. But It can grab additional boosts with his ability and he get's a lot of opportunities to come in cause great physical bulk. After a SD his CC hurts a lot, too.
And I dont get why a lot of you guys think he's ugly though. IMO he looks more awesome than any other poke this gen! Things that are ugly are blops like blissey or burungeru and nasttorei. or the weird water corpse milotic. but not that epic blue lama :( he's a boss!
 
I tried Kobuaron on PO and was rather amazed by the overall awesomeness of Taunt. Taunt+Swords Dance+Sacred Sword can pummel through Skarmory in a few turns: first you Taunt the Whirlwind, SD twice, and outright kill Skarmory or try to attempt more boosts. At +4 it OHKOs Skarmory, if I remember correctly. I wrote several posts on here praising its amazingness despite its glaring Burungeru weakness.

Then I tried Lucario. I can safely say Lucario > Kobuaron in killing stuff (especially Burungeru and frail fast special attackers), but Kobuaron DOES beat some stuff that Lucario can't, including the aforementioned Skarmory, Gliscor (you need Iron Head though), Garchomp and sometimes unboosted Doryuuzu due to its excellent bulk. If you ask me I'd prefer Lucario over this guy any day though.
 
Is investment in attack really that important?

I was thinking sp def EVs and max speed, so nothing can stop him.
 
Is investment in attack really that important?

I was thinking sp def EVs and max speed, so nothing can stop him.
Yes, it is. Cobalon's Attack of 90 is good, but not good enough to sweep. Its Special Defense is exposed, but that can be fixed by Calm Mind, as stated a few pages back.

To me, Cobalon is similar to Lucario in terms of typing and playstyle, except that its offenses are weaker and can take hits better (physically).
 

Chou Toshio

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It's siblings Kerudio and Terrakion got all the love :/

They got the hole-less defensive spreads and the insane offensive stats. What did Kobal and Viriz get? Nothing. :/

Then again I guess the "legendary 3" of all generations had their stand-outs (Zapdos, Suicune, Azelf) and "unwanted-children" (Articuno, Entei, Mesprit).

All I can say is-- why didn't this thing get Spikes??? If this thing had Spikes and swapped sp.ATK with Sp.DEF, it would have been an instant OU. :/

Gdamn GF troll . . . well, it's not as useless as Articuno, but seriously . . . it's got terrific speed and nice defensive stats-- it's a perfect setup platform with nothing to setup!

Don't even start going on about Swords Dance, because this thing does not hit hard enough to merit it . . .

Granted it didn't get trolled AS bad as Virizion . . . Maybe a dominant UU pokemon?
 

Chou Toshio

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90 offensive stats are not good enough to be powerful offensive pokemon. I'm sorry, there's a reason why GF released so many 120+ power offensive pokemon this gen-- they realized 90-110 range offensive stats simply don't break pokemon with 90-110 range defensive stats.

Obviously they have ok stats over all (after all, 580 BST for crying out loud), with fantastic speed and decent defensive stats (despite the 1 hole on either).

Problem: Great plantform for setup, but they got nothing to setup!

IE. they have serious Cresselia syndrome-- the problem that they just don't really do anything! It doesn't matter how good your defenses/speed are if you don't have the power to go offensive, and you don't have any setup to hurt the enemy (spikes/tspikes). :/

Kerudio and Terrakion on the other hand, are almost perfectly designed offensive pokemon. They have even defenses, no holes on either side, and the offensive might to truly abuse their STABs and that 108 troll speed.

I honestly feel really sorry for Kobaruon and Virzion considering how blessed their siblings were. They're not "bad" as you say (not articuno level bad), but I would even consider Entei a pokemon I'd carry on my team before them (the event one only admittedly).
 
^Virizion is superior to Kobaruon, IMO, since its Grass/Fighting typing at least grants the Water/Electric/Ground resistances without the drawback of being weak to U-Turn and utterly walled by steels. It can pull of a bulky set decently well with 252 HP / 44 Def / 208 Spe.

Kobaruon, however, got even more of a shaft than its savannah-based counterpart. It is weak to three common attacking types despite its good number of resistances - perhaps a set utilizing Taunt / Sacred Sword / Thunder Wave / Volt Change? Ground types don't care about it but it seems the best it can do.
 
I think some re-assessment should go into Kobaruon, it's offenses may not be great, but they sure as hell aren't terrible (ala Cresselia), and having Fighting type STAB is never a bad thing.

Defensively, we're looking at 91/129/72. Compare that to something like Skarmory, which gets 65/140/70, and it's pretty easy to see that Kobaruon deserves some recognition. While he has no Spikes to set up, nor Roost or some HP draining move to assist in recovering, he does get Roar to mess with enemy ranks, which allows him to phaze decently. Furthermore, while he doesn't get U-Turn, he does get Volt Change to anticipate counters. With high speed and defenses, Kobaruon has no trouble running Taunt, Roar, or Volt Change. Kobaruon does however wish it had some better move options, as if it wants to do some neat stuff, like switching in on Outrages, it needs to rely on Hidden Power [Ice/Dragon] to do anything. In a metagame with tons of potential outragers (Garchomp, Salamence, Ononokusu, Flygon, Kingdra, Kyuremu,...) it's nice to have something that can come in with relative safety.

Kobaruon can run a calm mind set to buff up it's lower special defensive stat as well, and it can use it rather effectively with it's decent speed and bulk. Coming on Draco Meteors that it resists still won't be fun, but it can do so and then set up Calm Minds as long as it's not Lati@s doing the Meteor spam. Thunder Wave is decent support, but Kobaruon seems like it can basically be engineered to counter some threats with EV investment and moveset placement.


I think it's a bit too early to count out this guy's Full Metal Heart.
 
One of my fav new pokes. It's inferior to SD lucario imo. The lack of power, ES and Crunch really hurts. But It can grab additional boosts with his ability and he get's a lot of opportunities to come in cause great physical bulk. After a SD his CC hurts a lot, too.
And I dont get why a lot of you guys think he's ugly though. IMO he looks more awesome than any other poke this gen! Things that are ugly are blops like blissey or burungeru and nasttorei. or the weird water corpse milotic. but not that epic blue lama :( he's a boss!
The only problem I have with his design is that he looks like an electric-type :/

But as far as comparing Kob to Luke, why don't people use them together? With identical typing/ability and similar niches, they could break down each others' common counters.

As long as you play both to their strengths (using SDLuke's coverage and relative power and Kob's bulk and longevity) they could work very well together. An example:

Kobaruon @ Choice Band / Shed Shell (for use in conjunction with SD/NP Lucario)
Adamant / Naughty
252 HP 252 Atk 6 Spe (or whatever bulky spread actually works)
-Close Combat
-Dragon Tail / Roar
-Volt Change / Thunder Wave
-Thunder Wave / Iron Head / Stone Edge

With his great bulk and typing, immunity to Toxic and SR resistance, Kobaruon can switch in all day long (just be careful with Spikes). Since this particular Kob doesn't really use its speed, it won't mind paralysis much either. This set is to hit and run, wearing down its (and partner Lucario's) counters in the process.

Close Combat is reliable STAB, with good base power, and the defense drops won't matter much since it will be in and out often. Dragon Tail / Roar are for scouting and phazing; with some entry hazards it could make Lucario's end sweep much easier. Volt Change also scouts counters, and lets Kob escape Shadow Tag / Magnet Pull pokes if you're not running Shed Shell, though you won't be doing much damage in the process. Spreading paralysis with Thunder Wave really helps Lucario too, with his mediocre base 90 speed. That way, he won't have to rely so heavily on ExtremeSpeed or Vacuum Wave. Iron Head is secondary STAB and mostly filler, so as not to be completely walled by Ghost-types. Stone Edge is good against Gyarados, Salamence, Dragonite, Ulgamoth and Shandera most notably, but they are all crippled pretty badly by Thunder Wave, so it is a lesser option.

Choice Band is chosen primarily for immediate power, increasing everything but Volt Change. However, Shed Shell is an option if you do not want to instantly lose Kob when Shandera switches in.

Adamant is the preferred option, even with Volt Change, as everything that will want to switch into Koba will resist or be immune to it (Magnezone, Hippowdon), and you want every last bit of Koba's bulk to allow as many switch-ins as possible.

EDIT:
I think some re-assessment should go into Kobaruon, it's offenses may not be great, but they sure as hell aren't terrible (ala Cresselia), and having Fighting type STAB is never a bad thing.

Defensively, we're looking at 91/129/72. Compare that to something like Skarmory, which gets 65/140/70, and it's pretty easy to see that Kobaruon deserves some recognition. While he has no Spikes to set up, nor Roost or some HP draining move to assist in recovering, he does get Roar to mess with enemy ranks, which allows him to phaze decently. Furthermore, while he doesn't get U-Turn, he does get Volt Change to anticipate counters. With high speed and defenses, Kobaruon has no trouble running Taunt, Roar, or Volt Change. Kobaruon does however wish it had some better move options, as if it wants to do some neat stuff, like switching in on Outrages, it needs to rely on Hidden Power [Ice/Dragon] to do anything. In a metagame with tons of potential outragers (Garchomp, Salamence, Ononokusu, Flygon, Kingdra, Kyuremu,...) it's nice to have something that can come in with relative safety.

Kobaruon can run a calm mind set to buff up it's lower special defensive stat as well, and it can use it rather effectively with it's decent speed and bulk. Coming on Draco Meteors that it resists still won't be fun, but it can do so and then set up Calm Minds as long as it's not Lati@s doing the Meteor spam. Thunder Wave is decent support, but Kobaruon seems like it can basically be engineered to counter some threats with EV investment and moveset placement.


I think it's a bit too early to count out this guy's Full Metal Heart.
Completely agree with this. Although it is disappointing that Kob doesn't have anything defensively useful to do while it's taking hits (although personally I would give him his own unique entry hazard before I'd add SR or Spikes to his movepool) he can work great as a paralysis provider and a general defensive pivot.
 
I don't think Magnezone will want to switch into Kobaruon. It's defenses prevent Magnezone from getting easy OHKOs and due to the lack of a 4x weakness to anything Magnezone can dish out, it probably would prefer to avoid Kobaruon's fighting STAB, especially Close Combat.
 
I'd like to do a set with a timid nature and including these attacks: hidden power fighting and substitute.which moves can I put in the remaining 2 slots?
 
I think it's time to update this thread.

I seriously think the Cobalon has been seriously underrated, much like Virijion had been (and lol Virijion who everyone said sucked and turned into a phenomenal poke). Ironically, Terakion probably one of the least used (more than this sadly) and all the Horses are underrated.

Anyhow I think some sets could be a Mixed, a Bulky Set up user (Calm/Swords), etc. If only he did have Spikes/Stealth Rock, etc but beggars can't be choosers.

A set of Cheer Up/Hp Ice/Sacred Sword/Flash Cannon or Iron Head (if you want more special or physical oriented) seems really interesting, especially since this is much faster than Lucario and can land Hp Ice on threatening things like Garchomp, Gliscor, Landlos etc and has an awesome typing. Sacred Sword or Close Combat gives fighting stab and cuts through steels and rocks and having much better defense than Lucario can allow it to survive certain Earthquakes and kill back and it has good defensive typing and resistance to Latis.

A bulky Adamant Swords Dancer can be done with Swords Dance/Reflect/Iron Head/Sacred Sword as well and with Cobalon's good defenses and typing, it can be pretty tough and strong.

Finally a bulky or speedy variant of Calm Mind/Hp Ice/Focus Blast/Flash Cannon set works quite nicely. It wishes it had Giga Drain like Virijion (a steel type Giga Drain would have been awesome) but it's pretty good.

Cobalon has nice typing and is definitely a good poke. It is certainly far from suckish as people kept saying early on in this (outdated) thread.
 
I think it's time to update this thread.

I seriously think the Cobalon has been seriously underrated, much like Virijion had been (and lol Virijion who everyone said sucked and turned into a phenomenal poke). Ironically, Terakion probably one of the least used (more than this sadly) and all the Horses are underrated.

Anyhow I think some sets could be a Mixed, a Bulky Set up user (Calm/Swords), etc. If only he did have Spikes/Stealth Rock, etc but beggars can't be choosers.

A set of Cheer Up/Hp Ice/Sacred Sword/Flash Cannon or Iron Head (if you want more special or physical oriented) seems really interesting, especially since this is much faster than Lucario and can land Hp Ice on threatening things like Garchomp, Gliscor, Landlos etc and has an awesome typing. Sacred Sword or Close Combat gives fighting stab and cuts through steels and rocks and having much better defense than Lucario can allow it to survive certain Earthquakes and kill back and it has good defensive typing and resistance to Latis.

A bulky Adamant Swords Dancer can be done with Swords Dance/Reflect/Iron Head/Sacred Sword as well and with Cobalon's good defenses and typing, it can be pretty tough and strong.

Finally a bulky or speedy variant of Calm Mind/Hp Ice/Focus Blast/Flash Cannon set works quite nicely. It wishes it had Giga Drain like Virijion (a steel type Giga Drain would have been awesome) but it's pretty good.

Cobalon has nice typing and is definitely a good poke. It is certainly far from suckish as people kept saying early on in this (outdated) thread.
Cobalon sucks, that's why it isn't used much. It really can't afford to go mixed due to decidedly average attacking stats (the only reason Birijion gets away with HP Ice is because it hits a popular, specific threat extremely hard, and its typing means it isn't worried about other ground types), so it needs to focus its efforts on either side. The thing is, it is outclassed either way.

Physical sets can run SD / Close Combat / Stone Edge / Iron Head? Leave the Rock/Fighting combination to Terakion. Steel being its only redeeming factor is good on the defensive end, not the offensive. Specially speaking, it has to rely on either horrible coverage or a move with 70% accuracy, and with its typing it is weak to the most common attacks in the game. Meanwhile, Virizion has STAB recovery, and Calm Mind buffs the SpD that is already helping it take stray Ice Beams and Flamethrower's without having to really worry about patching up its physical defense.

Finally, if I were to use Adamant Cobalon I'd just use Adamant Lucario. At least that way I have tons more power with priority to top it off. Adamant Cobalon is outsped by too many things, such as +95s (SD Gliscor, Garchomp, Landorus, opposing Horse Trio, etc). It needs Jolly to play to its strengths.

Honestly, I feel like its best sets will involve Close Combat, Thunder Wave, Roar, Taunt, and Volt Change, which is has an easier time doing than the other horses. Virizion does Reflect better anyway.
 

shrang

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I honestly feel really sorry for Kobaruon and Virzion considering how blessed their siblings were. They're not "bad" as you say (not articuno level bad), but I would even consider Entei a pokemon I'd carry on my team before them (the event one only admittedly).
First of, Birijion, doesn't suck. It was great since it anti-metagamed the shit out Rain/Sand teams. If those two get banned (which I hope they do), well, then you'd see a huge plummet in Birijion, I'm afraid.

On the topic of Kobaruon, I've been testing it in the past few weeks, and I have to say, it's definitely usable, but you'd much rather use Terakion, yeah. I've been using SD/Taunt/Close Combat/Iron Head, if you can get a flinch off, you can get past Gliscor and Hippowdon and stuff. It is also fantastic to switch into Garchomp's Outrage, SD up and then send it to hell with your boosted Close Combat. I've heard that the Calm Mind set is actually pretty good too, although I haven't tried it. Let me just say that Kobaruon has the slight niche of being the only horse that isn't completely screwed by Lati@s due to its Steel-typing. YEAH.
 
I think Thunder Wave and Roar could fit on a Swords Dance set. I guess Taunt can take care of things trying to phaze you in the first place, though most opponent phazers will be slower, so Cobalion will be able to Roar first (that's how it works right?).

Cobalion's natural bulk is great too, and 90 attack is workable (as the popular Scrafty shows). I personally think Cobalion can function with just Iron Head/Sacred Sword (or CC) and it should attempt to snag two SD boosts due to it's natural bulk and it's ability to cripple/shuffle opponents with Thunderwave, Taunt or Roar.
 
The bigger question is: What do either of them actually do?
Virizion runs a wicked Dual Screen set. I used one on my mono-fighting team; 252 HP, 252 Speed, 6 Def, with Light Screen/Reflect/Taunt/Sacred Sword, and holding Light Clay. I forget what nature it had, but I think it was Jolly.
 
Terakion is least used ? explain why i met terakion once every 3 matches then
and yeah dual screen is something i can consider do nothing. Say that to cresselia who pretty much do nothing to threaten my team. Same with that infamous porygon2 evo
really
 
Terakion is least used ? explain why i met terakion once every 3 matches then
and yeah dual screen is something i can consider do nothing. Say that to cresselia who pretty much do nothing to threaten my team. Same with that infamous porygon2 evo
really
Yeah so true. Tera is very popular. I see him SO much its not funny.
 

alphatron

Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
If I ever run this guy, I'm probably going to stick with a taunt boosting set and not much else. Thunder wave would be nice if Conkeldurr weren't so popular.
 
Just reset for a good Adamant one with pretty good ivs. But, I'm not sure if I should go for Jolly. He does have 108 speed, so is jolly really necessary? I mean a sword set would work fine if not I can throw on a band or scarf.
 

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