What!? That sucks, guess I'll change it to a Scarf then.
Because Greninja is frail, he isn't there as a sweeper, he's a wallbreaker who needs some support for the set to work, I like to use a bulky Mawile with SD, it gets the job done against pokes that this froggie can't take down, like Gigalith.
A wallbreaker should be able to take down something as tanky as Gigalith with little-to-no problem, not to mention that Gigalith is almost never seen in OU (according to the usage stats, found in approximately 1 in every 2000 teams). Wallbreakers shouldn't have to rely on receiving boosts from anything through BP, but even if they do, they should be able to do better than use a one-time Fake Out and U-turn back out.
I feel like Trevenant does this better with Leech Seed, Substitute, Phantom Force, and Will-O-Wisp. Not saying that your set is bad, because SubSeed is awesome, but I think it's outclassed by Trevenant since it has an arguably better typing and movepool. Although it loses some of its bulk, access to Will-O-Wisp (not to mention a much more reliable STAB to break Substitutes with) somewhat offsets this.
I feel the same way you do. As in that I respect your thinking but disagree. Thanks for being so polite though :). My issues with the set you run and the attack in particular. (not "a much more reliable" move than seed bomb). The reasons are that
1) Normal types are common? (hint: they're not). Blissey/Chansey are the only ones you should see in OU and they won't be switching into Trevenant because Leech Seed will heal a massive amount of damage, he's immune to Seismic Toss and nullifies Toxic with Natural Cure.
1. Looking at the OU usage statistics, normal types are actually quite uncommon; Mega-Kangashkan is now banned, Togekiss is 31, Blissey is 37, Clefable 45 and that's it. These are the normal types that are in the top 50. And blissey and clefable would wall trevenant anyway, even without being normal-type.
Togekiss and Clefable are not Normal anymore. Blissey also doesn't wall Trevenant (coughLEECHSEEDcough).
With Eelektross' coverage I feel that going for the most surprises is more beneficial the T-bolt while Thunderbolt is a useful attack and if your using hidden power ice the psuedo-bolt beam coverage can be beneficial. Yet, IMO superpower is notable damage on Tyranitar and my arch-nemisis Heatran who both lack reliable recovery and hurts many other special walls. Also because its already using a grass move which already hits water SE there has to be significant flying type threat who Eelektross can take out with a T-Bolt that it wouldn't be beneficial to volt switch out on. Talonflame (or Staraptor if your a hipster) dies to a volt switch and Skarmory dies to flamethrower down to sturdy + volt-switch. For these reasons I think Superpower is better than T-Bolt.
Oh yeah, you're right, forgot about their type-change, though that only makes my point even more valid. Also, blissey can just heal up against it, and since trevenant can't do that much, it can use the free turns for wish support and/or aromatherapy.
1. You didn't slash it in that specific post, and I honestly can't look up everything you have posted. But even then, earthquake is still walled by nearly all grass types.
Not so. According to Bulbapedia, Spiky Shield protects the user from "all effects of moves that target it during the turn it is used, including damage." Also included is a list of moves that it doesn't block, and there are no status moves there.
I just feel extremely uneasy using something that's so easily beat and setup on by stuff like Talonflame, Lucario (I know you said you beat one, but I can't imagine how), Genesect, Aegislash, Heatran, Scizor, Ferrothorn, Gliscor, Dragonite, Gengar with Sludge Wave, Charizard, Skarmory, Landorus-T, Dual Screens Espeon, Alakazam, Bounce Gyarados, Breloom, Venusaur, Mandibuzz, Trevenant, Volcarona, and Togekiss.
I used Lopunny as an anti-lead for a time, it was surprisingly effective. It can also do Switcheroo+Assault Vest thanks to Klutz, which essentially taunts something permanently.
I've been using a similar set, except with Hammer Arm instead of seed bomb. The reason I chose to do this is for a couple of reasons: spiky shield and substitute both help negate the horrible speed lowering side effect of the move, and it also makes chesnaught not completely walled by grass types.
I will. Great idea! They might not be up for a while though, I will be busy
Thank you for mentioning a cosmic power BP lopunny set. I was looking everywhere for another person's opinion on one, because there is just so many things lopunny can run! Do you think that lopunny can be running rest+chesto because it sounds like that will almost guarantee 2 cosmic power. Another thing you forgot to mention is lopunny's DW ability, limber. With the new breeding mechanics, you can get a limber cosmic power Lopunny, and limber is useful for getting the jump on t-waves cause lopunny is rather fast. But her other 2 abilities are great two, which of the 3 would you pick? Lastly, are speed EVs important for her? Her attack options are return and POWER UP PUNCH, but I totally forgot about magic coat so screw attacks.
I think Klutz with a Choice Band is the superior ability and item as baton passers are Trick/Switcheroo bait and most users of them are specially focussed - with Magic Coat you shouldn't really be getting TWaved so Limber is a bit pointless. I'm currently running Agility/Magic Coat/Cosmic Power/Baton Pass with the EVs and Bold nature I initially mentioned; I don't think speed EVs are important at all as after an Agility you outspeed the competition anyway. I would highly recommend Dual Screens support, as that more than anything else should guarantee you to get a few boosts if you play your cards right - pair this with a Lum Berry or Magic Guard SD or NP mon and you should be set (or you can get your SD and NP boosts elsewhere, Weakness Policy Mew and Drifblim make good candidates with the prevalence of Knock Off and U-Turn in the case of Mew - EDIT: plus they both can have Magic Coat).
No comment on the effectiveness of Lopunny, as I simply don't have any experience whatsoever using or playing against it, but Choice Scarf is generally a better item to use when tricking something away. Especially in Lopunny's case, in which you don't want it being muscled through, giving something the extra power to do exactly just that can sometimes be detrimental.
If you read the moveset I've posted, it doesn't contain Switcheroo it's purely a Baton Pass set. The point was Baton Passers lure Trick and Switcheroo users to prevent the Baton Passing, and most Trick users are specially focused - therefore you receive the scarf and they receive the band which they can't use effectively anyway (it significantly hampers them by making them slower and not boosting their attack).
Oh, okay, I get it now. I guess that makes sense, I can't really think of a better option than Choice Band in that case.
Did you consider HP rock > EQ on Venasaur? I never tried this yet, but I feel that grass+ground coverage isn't reliable
