No, that's only for Compoundeyes, which is a 1.3x boost. Wide Lens is only a 1.1x boost, which boosts Hypnosis's 70% accuracy up to 77%.
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Darkrai: Just hear me out.
- Thread starter Cooley
- Start date
wow. wide lens fucking blows. thanks bologo
Next time on Shoddybattle Darkrai will be tested on the ladder well why can't shoddy do that for a specific testing server?
Crobat is not predictable at all, it can do mutiple jobs. It can use CB, Taunt, Hypnosis, Brave Bird, Roost etc.
Darkrai may be able to stat up, but after that, people will know its set and it'll be less of a threat. Your example of switching may work, but that doesn't mean it will be able to do anything after that. And an example us not an argument in a discussion about Darkrai overcentralizing OU.
Looking at the first post in this topic I was surprised Cooley did not mention Aura Sphere in any of the possible movesets.
Darkrai doesn't get Aura Sphere, iirc.
This really isn't a valid arguement. Sure, Wide Lens can knock up the accuracy of Hypnosis, but Crobat loses it's item slot.
Darkrai has a more accurate sleep move and can still use an item.
It's faster then Gengar, has a higher Sp. Atk, much more survivalbility, and is very unpredictable. It should not be in OU by any means.
There are some ubers that I believe toe the line between OU and Ubers - the Lati twins, possibly (without Soul Dew) and maybe Manaphy. However, Darkrai is not one of those ubers.
Bad Dreams vs Restalkers. Bad Dreams + Dark Void > Hypnosis by a mile. Amazing attacking stats and speed. Typing isn't terribly great, but has fairly decent defenses. Pretty large move pool allows Darkrai the ability to double status, CM, Taunt, Haze, Special Sweep, Mix Sweep, possibly even set up SDs and do physical sweeping.
Darkrai is definitely a great Pokemon. It does a number of things amazingly well, but it totally fucks Restalkers up with Bad Dreams and its great attacking ability.
Darkrai is definitely a great Pokemon. It does a number of things amazingly well, but it totally fucks Restalkers up with Bad Dreams and its great attacking ability.
Nodoby cares about what you thinks draws the line, statistics and arguments draw this line. Gengar is also unpredictable and very good. The SpAtk differs just 5 points. Darkrai may also be faster, but in the current metagame it won't outspeed more than Starmie and Azelf, and those won't stay in anyway. Also, nobody uses Wide Lens on Crobat, and Crobat is faster than Darkrai.
Crobat's Physical attack stat is better than its special attack stat, so I can't see a lot people use it. Also, 135 isn't better in any way. It's all about the possible moves, sets and prediction. If Darkrai can't do anything with that special attack stat, it's worthless.
LOL the hacker isn't even good at flaming. Atleast I'm there with stefy <3
Also, Darkrai is to broken IMO. Very accurate sleep move, awesome base stats, has no business in OU.
Hey, don't diss Scrubs's name. We all know that's the best TV show in years.
Darkrai is a slightly modified Gengar with actual ability to take more than 1 neutral hit and trading immunities (except to Psychic) for all around better stats and movepool. That simple.
Darkrai is a slightly modified Gengar with actual ability to take more than 1 neutral hit and trading immunities (except to Psychic) for all around better stats and movepool. That simple.
But that doesn't by itself mean its uber. It just means its better than Gengar. There is a big difference between "better than top-tier OU X" and "being too powerful for the OU metagame".
And really, the whole "Bad dreams messes up Restalk!" argument is flawed, as you likely wouldn't keep it in anyway unless you had the advantage (if LO Gengar sleeps your Heatran, are you keeping that Heatran in?)
I like the question, because it is not asking if Darkrai is not good enough for Uber, but if it is too good for OU. Yes, it is too good for OU.
I think Darkrai should really stay in Uber. The obvious things are the average defenses with a high Speed, good Special Attack and Dark Void coupled with Bad Dreams.
Stats
Darkrai's stats in my opinion would be pretty decent for Uber, considering its two highest stats (Special Attack and Speed of course), but also its average HP lets is Substitute without taking risking too much. If the opponent's Pokemon is asleep (possibly due to Dark Void), then this substitute is free, as the opponent may switch, or receive damage. If the opponent still decides not to switch, then a few Calm Minds will help it maximize its already high stats, and when the Substitute is broken, that is Darkrai's cue to sweep with now massive Special Attack and very good speed.
Dark Void + Bad Dreams
Self explanatory. Little things add up. Especially if Stealth Rock is in your favor. If they are asleep, they probably would want to switch to avoid further damage
Insomnia and Early Bird (and Natural cure, etc)
There is nothing that has Early Bird or Insomnia that poses any thread to Darkrai. Absolutely nothing.
What may scare Darkrai is Blissey with Natural Cure. But, since this only activates after the Natural Curer has left the battle, Darkrai will at least probably force a switch, allowing a free-ish move. So any Pokemon with Natural Cure will be sort of put out of action. Blissey just might pose a problem if the user of Darkrai does not pack Focus Punch/Blast. Sure, Blissey can heal off the Bad Dream damage with Soft Boiled, but it will either take a lot of switching or a lot of waiting.
@Shiny Crobat: Yeah, Gengar is also pretty unpredictable and good. But think of its overall Durability. Will-o-Wisp may compensate for Gengar's low defenses, but is has low-ish accuracy and gengar may take a lot of damage before landing Will-o-Wisp. Darkrai's ability to turn Sleep into something that prevents movement and cause continuous damage is.... better. Yes, Gengar has Dream Eater, but Darkrai does also, and good luck trying to get something asleep with Hypnosis on Gengar. Giving it a wide lens would increase its chance of W-o-W and Hypnosis, but there goes your chance of an item.
@Lord Alchemy: You said it all.
I think Darkrai should really stay in Uber. The obvious things are the average defenses with a high Speed, good Special Attack and Dark Void coupled with Bad Dreams.
Stats
Darkrai's stats in my opinion would be pretty decent for Uber, considering its two highest stats (Special Attack and Speed of course), but also its average HP lets is Substitute without taking risking too much. If the opponent's Pokemon is asleep (possibly due to Dark Void), then this substitute is free, as the opponent may switch, or receive damage. If the opponent still decides not to switch, then a few Calm Minds will help it maximize its already high stats, and when the Substitute is broken, that is Darkrai's cue to sweep with now massive Special Attack and very good speed.
Dark Void + Bad Dreams
Self explanatory. Little things add up. Especially if Stealth Rock is in your favor. If they are asleep, they probably would want to switch to avoid further damage
Insomnia and Early Bird (and Natural cure, etc)
There is nothing that has Early Bird or Insomnia that poses any thread to Darkrai. Absolutely nothing.
What may scare Darkrai is Blissey with Natural Cure. But, since this only activates after the Natural Curer has left the battle, Darkrai will at least probably force a switch, allowing a free-ish move. So any Pokemon with Natural Cure will be sort of put out of action. Blissey just might pose a problem if the user of Darkrai does not pack Focus Punch/Blast. Sure, Blissey can heal off the Bad Dream damage with Soft Boiled, but it will either take a lot of switching or a lot of waiting.
@Shiny Crobat: Yeah, Gengar is also pretty unpredictable and good. But think of its overall Durability. Will-o-Wisp may compensate for Gengar's low defenses, but is has low-ish accuracy and gengar may take a lot of damage before landing Will-o-Wisp. Darkrai's ability to turn Sleep into something that prevents movement and cause continuous damage is.... better. Yes, Gengar has Dream Eater, but Darkrai does also, and good luck trying to get something asleep with Hypnosis on Gengar. Giving it a wide lens would increase its chance of W-o-W and Hypnosis, but there goes your chance of an item.
@Lord Alchemy: You said it all.
1) Gengar shouldn't be taking hits, just like Darkrai. Darkrai may have decent defences on paper, but its typing ruins it.
2) The accuracy difference between Dark Void, Will-o-Wisp and Hypnosis is only five or ten. That shouldn't be making much of a difference.
I forgot to add that I quite like Perishtrapping Gengar.
Well, the type weaknesses may be rubbish but Darkrai's speed and decent accuracy on Dark Void will whittle down at Bug/Fight Arceus. With Arceus' Sleep talk Arceus can become a real threat, but every Pokemon has to have a counter. For OU not much can counter Darkrai, as Machamp and Heracross' Speed and Special Defense will have them killed before they can land a hit. Dark Pulse may not OHKO Machamp, but a Focus Punch/Blast might. If Darkrai has received a few Calm Minds then Dark Pulse has a chance. As for Weavile? No. But both their speed stats are the same...
P.S There should be a full stop between "...W-o-W Darkrai's ability..." In my last post. Editing now to avoid confusion.
Heracross doesn't have a real counter either, but it still is very viable for OU. So that can't be an argument. Darkrai won't get "a few calm minds" in that easily. After sleeping one Pokemon, a next one will come in to KO it. It's not like people will wait 'till you set up.
I meant a few calm minds before Hera, etc comes in, as long as they both are not the first Pokemon to be sent out.
That argument is not valid at all. Only a Yachechomp or a Substitute + Sand Veil Garchomp can get in more than one Swords Dance against the switch in (on the switch, obviously). So the chances of Darkrai, a Pokemon with almost the same offensive stat, getting in more than two Calm Minds in very small. After two Calm Minds, it will be just as dangerous as Garchomp, so why ban it? There's no point in banning it because it can set up.
Actually, Hera has several counters. So that's not a good argument.
I would defnitely say Gengar has no real counters though.
Give me one hera counter.
One word: Weavile
To the poster above, Weavile is not a Gengar counter
Fire blast Weezing, Fire Punch Dusknoir and Aerial Ace Gliscor make fine counters to Heracross, but what does this have to do with Darkrai....