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ORAS Ubers Dual Screens HO; Peaked on PO at some point
- Thread starter Daenys
- Start date
Hey there, interesting team. I personally don't really like screens, but it works alright in ladder games. If you're running dual screens Deoxys-S, I think you can use an EV spread of 252 HP / 236 Def or SpD / 16 Speed Timid. This outspeeds Deoxys-A, the next fastest Pokemon. Max speed is not really necessary imo, and I don't think there's much use in tying with other Deoxys-S since there are Magic Coat mindgames and speed tying for Taunt is not very reliable. With screens Deoxys actually has usable bulk, so it would possible be able to come in a few times. It would be nice to fit Recover by perhaps using another Stealth Rock user, but there's not much room for that.
I find Psyshock a weird option on your set since it doesn't particularly hit anything. It worked decently on Sub Xerneas IMO because that set is more anti-stall, and Xern needed a way to break Specially Defensive walls ie Blissey (pretty uncommon now). Thunder would do a bit more overall since it has high BP. If Yveltal gives you trouble you can use 24 Defense EVs (give Genesect SpA boost so it doesn't spam powered up Iron Heads) and put the rest in HP. Otherwise, your spread is more physically bulky which really helps against Extreme Speed revenge killing attempts.
Regarding EKiller, I don't really think you need a bulky set, especially with dual screens. Max Speed Jolly Life Orb just hits significantly harder, and overall I've found that status (Will-O-Wisp, EKiller's main issue) is less common due to Primal Groudon. With screens you can set up a couple SDs and proceed to plow through a team. Also Brick Break is not really necessary. Dual screen teams are much less common than you think, and Arceus really needs Earthquake to hit Primal Groudon.
Anyway, that's all I have. Ditto sort of band-aid checks a bunch of stuff so technically you can manage everything, for the ladder this is probably enough.
I find Psyshock a weird option on your set since it doesn't particularly hit anything. It worked decently on Sub Xerneas IMO because that set is more anti-stall, and Xern needed a way to break Specially Defensive walls ie Blissey (pretty uncommon now). Thunder would do a bit more overall since it has high BP. If Yveltal gives you trouble you can use 24 Defense EVs (give Genesect SpA boost so it doesn't spam powered up Iron Heads) and put the rest in HP. Otherwise, your spread is more physically bulky which really helps against Extreme Speed revenge killing attempts.
Regarding EKiller, I don't really think you need a bulky set, especially with dual screens. Max Speed Jolly Life Orb just hits significantly harder, and overall I've found that status (Will-O-Wisp, EKiller's main issue) is less common due to Primal Groudon. With screens you can set up a couple SDs and proceed to plow through a team. Also Brick Break is not really necessary. Dual screen teams are much less common than you think, and Arceus really needs Earthquake to hit Primal Groudon.
Anyway, that's all I have. Ditto sort of band-aid checks a bunch of stuff so technically you can manage everything, for the ladder this is probably enough.
Daenys
Banned deucer.
Importable has EQ on Ekiller and yea not many use screens Ho, brick break is definitely expendable.
Psyshock is a relic of the xy xerneas set and yeah you're right it's replaceable by thunder in most cases.
Bulky Ekiller is pretty situational as is Jolly Ekiller but +2 xerneas barely 3hkoes arceus under screens wherein I can spam espeed and take it down should it really come to that . Any competent xerneas doesn't run max speed (no relevant scarfer outside gene and xern and the rare skymin are viable anyway) although this is ladder so competency is definitely rare.
As for deoxys I find it useful to outspeed genesect, allows me to set up hazards one last time either late game or otherwise. Deoxys EVs give gene the SpAtk boost which makes my job easier and the speed is just useful overall.
Will definitely implement Thunder>Psyshock and EQ>Brick Break (although I still love brick break) when I manage to edit the OP and try out jolly ekiller sometime
Thanks for the input
Anyother ideas, i rlly like this team, needs a fogger tho
Hey Daenys,
This is a pretty solid team. Lemonade as covered some stuff; the team is pretty solid but I do think some things could be more optimal. I think on occasion Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost can be threatening, since Gengar is KO'd, Ditto can't revenge kill it, it burns Ekiller, and hits Primal Groudon and Xerneas reasonably hard. Running Refresh Ekiller (so SD / Extreme Speed / Shadow Claw / Refresh) allows you to check Arceus-Ghost, as well as to help against stall with a good pursuit trapper. You certainly don't lose much from Brick Break, but I mean there are slight annoyances of losing Earthquake to threaten Primal Groudon so it's really more of a change up to your preference.
I do think spreads can be optimized. I agree with Lemonade's Deoxys-S spread. I also think that allocating your defensive bulk to HP for Xerneas would be better (leave 24 in defense for Genesect's Download), which would be 176 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpA / 56 Spe with a Modest nature. While you certainly can use physical bulk, putting the EVs in HP gives you better mixed bulk, which is especially helpful for Yveltal. Ditto should run the below set to give the best chances in a Ditto vs Ditto war. Finally, Primal Groudon should use a spread of 104 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SpD / 56 Spe with an Adamant nature which lets you outspeed base 90 scarfers at +2, and survive +2 Xerneas's Focus Blast after Rocks (you take only 1/16 on your initial switch in).
I also second Jolly LO Ekiller if that wasn't clear, but having a defogger as accidental_racist suggested is kind of counterproductive for this type of team.
Good luck!
This is a pretty solid team. Lemonade as covered some stuff; the team is pretty solid but I do think some things could be more optimal. I think on occasion Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost can be threatening, since Gengar is KO'd, Ditto can't revenge kill it, it burns Ekiller, and hits Primal Groudon and Xerneas reasonably hard. Running Refresh Ekiller (so SD / Extreme Speed / Shadow Claw / Refresh) allows you to check Arceus-Ghost, as well as to help against stall with a good pursuit trapper. You certainly don't lose much from Brick Break, but I mean there are slight annoyances of losing Earthquake to threaten Primal Groudon so it's really more of a change up to your preference.
I do think spreads can be optimized. I agree with Lemonade's Deoxys-S spread. I also think that allocating your defensive bulk to HP for Xerneas would be better (leave 24 in defense for Genesect's Download), which would be 176 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpA / 56 Spe with a Modest nature. While you certainly can use physical bulk, putting the EVs in HP gives you better mixed bulk, which is especially helpful for Yveltal. Ditto should run the below set to give the best chances in a Ditto vs Ditto war. Finally, Primal Groudon should use a spread of 104 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SpD / 56 Spe with an Adamant nature which lets you outspeed base 90 scarfers at +2, and survive +2 Xerneas's Focus Blast after Rocks (you take only 1/16 on your initial switch in).
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe (and 0 Atk if you want)
- Transform
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe (and 0 Atk if you want)
- Transform
I also second Jolly LO Ekiller if that wasn't clear, but having a defogger as accidental_racist suggested is kind of counterproductive for this type of team.
Good luck!
Daenys
Banned deucer.
Hesitant to change deo s spread as it let me set up screens against malefic's gene in a ladder match which allowed ditto to clutch without the need to win both speed ties but sure I'll try it out thanks. Yeah I mentioned gen 5 cm ghost arc in my threat list and unless screens are up it pretty much overpowers everything and ekiller can't win if it gets burned but I'd rather keep eq for the more prevalent primal groudon and hope screens give me enough time to boost and kill it. However Refresh does allow me to forego Lum Berry and run the more powerful Life Orb if I decide on Jolly Ekiller or the more optimal Silk Scarf if I stick to the bulky set. I'll
test and update the OP in two days.
Thanks for the ditto spread n_n
Groudon's EVs allow me to outspeed scarf gene so that it cannot explode and revenge groudon (this has happened, no joke) should their lati@s be down but I'll try your spread as it seems to fill broader roles.
Apprehensive about the Xerneas spread since mine allows me to tank a lot of priority albeit not outright losing to Yveltal late game is definitely more important, I'll definitely try your spread
Thanks for taking the time to rate
Edit: Hack yeah ditto was a lazy addition but it seems to do alright for now, Yveltal does synergize well with gengar and although turn trap is fun, having two taunt users to break stall is a plus with the added benefit of offensive Yveltal semi checking latis as well, that's definitely something worth trying out. As of now, I heavily on gengar to stop skarm, Lugia and such which isn't exactly consistent or reliable
Didn't feel like endlessly bumping my own thread
Thanks for all the input
test and update the OP in two days.
Thanks for the ditto spread n_n
Groudon's EVs allow me to outspeed scarf gene so that it cannot explode and revenge groudon (this has happened, no joke) should their lati@s be down but I'll try your spread as it seems to fill broader roles.
Apprehensive about the Xerneas spread since mine allows me to tank a lot of priority albeit not outright losing to Yveltal late game is definitely more important, I'll definitely try your spread
Thanks for taking the time to rate
Edit: Hack yeah ditto was a lazy addition but it seems to do alright for now, Yveltal does synergize well with gengar and although turn trap is fun, having two taunt users to break stall is a plus with the added benefit of offensive Yveltal semi checking latis as well, that's definitely something worth trying out. As of now, I heavily on gengar to stop skarm, Lugia and such which isn't exactly consistent or reliable
Didn't feel like endlessly bumping my own thread
Thanks for all the input
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Sopan,
your team is pretty standard for a screens offense but what irks me is the lazy choice is slapping on Ditto at the end. Your offensive core can't in fact punch through bulkier teams that well at all- you lack ways to break bulkier cores consisting of mons like Skarmory, Lugia, Giratina-O+Pdon, and that is due to you outsourcing an entire team slot for something you do not necessarily need: a revenge killer. Having Ekillers priority, Xerneas threat of Geomancy and Gengar's ability to trade will in my opinion threaten offense significantly, and screens support that your team revolves around will make set up sweepers much less threatening anyway. I'd reckon something like Yveltal could fit in the last slot, it synergizes well with Gengar and gives your team more priority, a way to weaken Klefki for Xerneas and a ground immunity.
Some sets here slightly sub optimal- you need better EVs on Groudon, a smarter choice of coverage on Xerneas and probably Jolly LO Ekiller as well. I'm not going to delve into that much as the main focus for you should be to optimize the choices of your 6 team slots and offensive synergy by ditching Ditto which is useless on these types of teams. Thanks for sharing and good luck.
your team is pretty standard for a screens offense but what irks me is the lazy choice is slapping on Ditto at the end. Your offensive core can't in fact punch through bulkier teams that well at all- you lack ways to break bulkier cores consisting of mons like Skarmory, Lugia, Giratina-O+Pdon, and that is due to you outsourcing an entire team slot for something you do not necessarily need: a revenge killer. Having Ekillers priority, Xerneas threat of Geomancy and Gengar's ability to trade will in my opinion threaten offense significantly, and screens support that your team revolves around will make set up sweepers much less threatening anyway. I'd reckon something like Yveltal could fit in the last slot, it synergizes well with Gengar and gives your team more priority, a way to weaken Klefki for Xerneas and a ground immunity.
Some sets here slightly sub optimal- you need better EVs on Groudon, a smarter choice of coverage on Xerneas and probably Jolly LO Ekiller as well. I'm not going to delve into that much as the main focus for you should be to optimize the choices of your 6 team slots and offensive synergy by ditching Ditto which is useless on these types of teams. Thanks for sharing and good luck.
Daenys
Banned deucer.
So I have another team with Yveltal over Ditto , Tweaked Groudon spread (different from the one posted here) , a different Ekiller and so on . However , I think I have changed it enough to warrant it a distinct identity and hence the Ditto team will be the final version I post.
Thanks to all who have taken the time to rate .
Thanks to all who have taken the time to rate .
Hey Daenys,
this team is pretty solid. There is not much to change to the last variation (your last post) because it is rather standard. In my opinion you should use Genesect over Ditto. Because you can abuse the Shadowturn tactic here. Genesect acts as a revenger and gives you momentum. Furthermore it has priority with Extremespeed. With the U-Turn momentum you can either trap something or get a sweeper in. It doesn t cover the Mence weak at all, but every team is weak to it, if the Mence support is great. You might want to try Klefki with priority thunderwaves. But if you add Klefki it might opens room for others mons. So with that small change you might have easier days.
Hope I was able to help you :]
this team is pretty solid. There is not much to change to the last variation (your last post) because it is rather standard. In my opinion you should use Genesect over Ditto. Because you can abuse the Shadowturn tactic here. Genesect acts as a revenger and gives you momentum. Furthermore it has priority with Extremespeed. With the U-Turn momentum you can either trap something or get a sweeper in. It doesn t cover the Mence weak at all, but every team is weak to it, if the Mence support is great. You might want to try Klefki with priority thunderwaves. But if you add Klefki it might opens room for others mons. So with that small change you might have easier days.
Hope I was able to help you :]
Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Explosion
- Extreme Speed
Daenys
Banned deucer.
I'm already through a few versions of this team , I might try balance next xd
Klefki is an interesting choice because I can see quite a few roles for it despite it giving primal don a free switch bar me suicide poisoning it or if I manage to toxic it on an obvious switch ; It might actually hurt the momentum of the team though ;
Although it could act as a second screens user and as I do not actually need a revenge killer, klefki could semi check yveltal too and just might fit on the team but still apprehensive since it slows down my momentum significantly
Genesect however, gives me a good scarfer and as you said , a turn-trap abuser to fully utilize gengars' potential . Will definitely try out the scarf gene set.
I might also try explosion over espeed since it helps me bring in my suitable sweeper(s) safely without sacrificing momentum , while doing a good chunk of damage to whatever is in , also helps semi check latis similar to yveltal
Thanks for taking the time to rate
Klefki is an interesting choice because I can see quite a few roles for it despite it giving primal don a free switch bar me suicide poisoning it or if I manage to toxic it on an obvious switch ; It might actually hurt the momentum of the team though ;
Although it could act as a second screens user and as I do not actually need a revenge killer, klefki could semi check yveltal too and just might fit on the team but still apprehensive since it slows down my momentum significantly
Genesect however, gives me a good scarfer and as you said , a turn-trap abuser to fully utilize gengars' potential . Will definitely try out the scarf gene set.
I might also try explosion over espeed since it helps me bring in my suitable sweeper(s) safely without sacrificing momentum , while doing a good chunk of damage to whatever is in , also helps semi check latis similar to yveltal
Thanks for taking the time to rate
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