Dusknoir Disscusion

Please forgive me for my last thread. My computer was acting all screwy.
anyways
#477-



Pressure- The opponent uses 2 PP when it uses and attack against Dusknoir.

Onto my ideas for em-
Dusknoir@Leftovers
Impish(+Def,-SpAtk)
EV's-MaxHp? With some attack and a little defense
Will-O-Wisp
Pain Split
EQ
Ice Punch
 
lol, please don't say "(something) Discussion" when there's absolutely none. I think this has been covered before, and there is no fixed standard for it. I personally like a little Thunderpunch for a Gyarados counter, and that's my personal view.
 
Wow, this thread sucks but so does the old one (which is from December), so here's some food for thought.

Dusknoir is a wall, and unusual among walls in that he has decent base attack to scare things away with. Don't mistake it for a sweeper, though.

The Serebii page is here.

(STAB is italics)

Physical Movepool:
Its physical movepool is respectable, including the elemental punches, the mindgames combo of Focus Punch/Payback/Pursuit, and damage all-stars Double Edge and Earthquake. Its STAB is especially weak, though

Shadow Punch
Shadow Sneak
Body Slam
Brick Break
Double-Edge
Earthquake
Facade
Fire Punch
Focus Punch
Giga Impact
Ice Punch
Payback
Pursuit
Return/Frustration
Rock Slide
Thunderpunch

Special Movepool:
With 65 base spatk it's not using any of these any time soon, but hey why not be complete.

Shadow Ball
Ominous Wind
Blizzard
Charge Beam
Dark Pulse
Focus Blast
Hyper Beam
Ice Beam
Psychic

Support Movepool:
Its support movepool is kind of weak for a ghost, but that means it's only mostly awesome instead of totally awesome.

Calm Mind (not that it has the spatk to use it)
Destiny Bond
Mean Look
Pain Split
Psych Up
Protect
Rain Dance/Sunny Day
Rest
Skill Swap
Sleep Talk
Snatch
Substitute
Swagger
Taunt
Thief
Trick Room
Will-o-Wisp


I don't have EV spreads on any of these, but Dusknoir uses a -spatk nature not -spd what was I thinking.

The standard set is gonna be something like...

Physical wall Dusknoir
Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Ice Punch/Focus Punch/Earthquake/Fire Punch
Ice Punch/Focus Punch/Earthquake/Fire Punch
Will-o-Wisp
Pain Split

The attacks are really variable; this is the cream of the crop. I like Ice Punch/EQ; WOW counters Gyarados nicely (so much so that Thunderpunch isn't particularly useful to Dusknoir), and there are precious few other threats that immune to EQ but not weak to Ice Punch (mostly just Bronzong and Cresselia and maybe Uxie).


Special wall Dusknoir
Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Shadow Sneak/Shadow Punch/Payback
Ice Punch/Focus Punch/Thunderpunch/Earthquake
Pursuit
Pain Split

This Dusknoir punishes special threats quite nicely. Shadow Sneak surprises fast stuff (Azelf, Zam), Shadow Punch is just there, Payback is actually stronger than either (with comparable type coverage) if Dusknoir takes a hit first (which he will).

The second slot depends on what your team needs. I prefer Ice Punch because of Mence (and random grasses and dragons); take what your team needs to help cover.


Support Dusknoir
Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Ice Punch/Focus Punch/Thunderpunch/Earthquake
Reflect/Light Screen/Trick Room
Will-o-Wisp
Pain Split

This Noir is a team player, throwing out a battlefield effect for the rest of the team. It would also be possible to replace the screen on this Noir with a weather move if your team needs a backup weather user, or even Substitute.

On one-attack Dusknoir, don't bother with STAB. Even unSTABbed Return is more powerful than Shadow Punch, and its type coverage is about as good (or about as bad, depending on how you want to look at it.)




Other options:
On all of the sets above, you can drop the second two slots for Rest and Sleep Talk. Dusknoir has really low base HP and gets Pain Split, two excellent reasons not to do this, but Restalk Noir might work for someone.

You could also drop both WOW and Pain Split for Rest and Sleep Talk. I don't recommend it with its low base HP.

Any set with Will-o-Wisp could drop it for Thunderpunch, for a more aggressive Gyarados counter, or Focus Punch, for punishing Tyranitar and Weavile switch-ins. (Don't leave Dusknoir in against Tyranitar; no Tyranitar doesn't have Crunch or Dark Pulse.) Will-o-Wisp could also be dropped for Substitute to help counter status-happy walls and allow for Subpunching (using Focus Punch from behind a Substitute).


As for other sets, I dunno. You might be able to do lol Calmnoir; it has a decent special movepool with a decent STABbed special attack, without the spatk to exploit it. Dusknoir has enough attacks to Choiceband, but this would be strictly novelty. Someone suggested Toxic/Mean Look/Destiny Bond/whatever; I thought that was kind of funny but don't try to win with it. (Dusknoir is too slow to Destiny Bond.)

1v1 novelty ideas aside, Dusknoir has 2v2 potential. It is really, really slow (which is good in some combos), has many of the 2v2 toys, and, most importantly, take a hit or two. It can Swagger, it can Trick Room, it can Skill Swap.
 
I myself like to use the following set for Dusknoir:

Dusknoir (F) @ Leftovers
Careful - 252 HP, 184 SpDef, 72 Def
Pressure
- Focus Punch / Earthquake
- Shadow Sneak
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp

I prefer Shadow Sneak over Shadow Punch, because it catches a lot of people of guard when I use this to either take down their EndVersaler (although they have lost a lot of popularity), or to take their Gengar/Alakazam/Azelf by surprise. It works out wonderful for me.
Focus Punch works wonders, as people will often switch out on Dusknoir, fearing either Will-O-Wisp or Pain Split. Risky, I agree, but it seems to work out just fine.
Still, I consider Earthqauke to be a viable option over Focus Punch as well. Both provide great type coverage and can deal some heavy damage as well.
 
If I may, I want to put up an obligatory "Discuss" about Disable. Specifially for this dude. In a world of Choice items and balanced movesets, removing 1 important move can make Dusknoir even more of a staller than ever.
Any move that Dusknoir fears will be a 2hko or 3hko hopefully, and because he is slow, Disable will cut that shit out.
Also, I find it silly to argue that Disable can never work due to accuracy when his staple move, WoW, only has 75 acc.
All you are hoping to do with Dusknoir is forcing the opponent to switch away. Disable can do that perfectly.
Something like:
@lefties
Disable
Pain Split
Payback/Focus Punch
WoW

Any potential in that? Also, does anyone know if it goes through subs?
 
If I may, I want to put up an obligatory "Discuss" about Disable. Specifially for this dude. In a world of Choice items and balanced movesets, removing 1 important move can make Dusknoir even more of a staller than ever.
Any move that Dusknoir fears will be a 2hko or 3hko hopefully, and because he is slow, Disable will cut that shit out.
Also, I find it silly to argue that Disable can never work due to accuracy when his staple move, WoW, only has 75 acc.
All you are hoping to do with Dusknoir is forcing the opponent to switch away. Disable can do that perfectly.
Torment is more accurate and forces Choice item users to switch just as effectively. That said, WOW forces CBanders that aren't kung-fu bugs or big ugly bears right out immediately, and there are few Choice Glassers that Dusknoir could come in on (meaning not CGMence) and try to Torment/Disable that it's not better off just Sucker Punching.
 
I was thinking about a Dusknoir set with Stealth rock. I think Pain Split or Rest are required so it works as a tank, but then I don't know what to use. Do I go with WOW and just one punch, or two punches for type coverage?
 
I was thinking about a Dusknoir set with Stealth rock. I think Pain Split or Rest are required so it works as a tank, but then I don't know what to use. Do I go with WOW and just one punch, or two punches for type coverage?
I think the best set for that is Spore/Extremespeed/Stealth Rock/Recover IMO
 
Generally I would go with Pain Split, Will-o-Wisp and two whatyourteamneeds. For the team I'm planning I'm using Thunderpunch for Gyarados and Earthquake for Electrivire, two Pokemon that can be pretty hard to counter and which Dusknoir beats nicely.

This is also one of these viable Trick Room Pokemon, and personally I don't mind a Calm Mind set. While 100 Attack is very nice for such a defensive Pokemon and its movepool is okay, it just really seem to kill things. Calm Mind Dusclops was always a pretty annoying thing to face for me.

~ Calm Mind
~ Ice Beam
~ Shadow Ball
~ Pain Split

Does the job pretty well imo, though it's resisted by Heatran, Empoleon, Scizor and a few others.
 
i use this guy online and I love him. i've been using:

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
Ability: Pressure
- Thunderpunch
- Shadow Sneak
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

that works very well. i really like Shadow Sneak over Shadow Punch or Focus Punch becuase he tends to come in on already weakened opponents and 60BP (after STAB) can make a surprisingly harsh dent.
 
Hmm Torment is fine vs the Choice users, but vs life orbs, stat ups, and whatnot they'll just get you in that 3rd turn anyway (which both will still be alive for). Disable won't do that. I still find potential in the fact that he won't get shafted in the 3rd turn


and there are few Choice Glassers that Dusknoir could come in on (meaning not CGMence) and try to Torment/Disable that it's not better off just Sucker Punching.
By Sucker Punch do you mean Shadow Sneak or Focus punch? Dusknoir doesn't get sucker punch unfortunately.
 
I think Ice Punch/Thunder Punch would work well, countering Dragons and beating common Spinners, Starmie/Donphan/Claydol. Although Donphan hates Will-O-Wisp and Claydol can't really do anything to Shadow Punch.
 

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