Extreme Tier shift Comparison and Potential Ideas
By: Stall Guy
Tier shift is a om in which the lower a pokes tier goes, the bigger the stat boost in order to make less competitive pokes viable. But in extreme, not only do PU boosts happen, stat boosts are doubled and this is based on Ubers banlist. Some mediocre pokes now completely outclass others, and some are actually viable. For full link with exact rules use this link:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/extreme-tier-shift.3540047/
Also, I assume that unless otherwise stated on Pokemon Showdown, all LC Uber/LC/and NFE pokes are PU. With all out that out of the way, here are some comparisons and list of pokes I think could be viable in extreme tier shift.
Alt forms comparison (evio got banned and Im pretty pissed):
Hoopa vs Hoopa U
100/130/80/170/150/90 vs 80/160/60/170/130/80
Hoopa is bulkier, faster and just as good special atk but unbound has higher atk and superior offensive typing. Defensive is sorta all over the place. While regular has 2 *4 weakness to dark and ghost, unbound has a *4 bug weakness+regular weak fairy, and no resistances. Immunity to normal and fighting is >than psychic, and actually resists poison and psychic while unbound does not resist anything. Use unbound for mixed coverage and stab dark pulse but that are the only merits honestly. For dedicated special sets, use regular since it has psyshock, nasty plot, and calm mind.
pikachu (belle) vs raichu
75/95/80/90/90/130 vs 100/130/95/130/120/150
Raichu is obviously bulkier and faster as both are in PU. Still, pikachu is still in a amazing speed tier, bulk is sub par but it can manage. Also light ball boost makes pikachu just behind mega medicham for atk by a diff of 5 base stat. Pikachu also has diff appearances which affects movepool. What seems the best for reg is encore/fake out/volt tackle/knock off but brick break over encore for better coverage is not a bad idea. Belle form has icicle crash, wild charge, knock off, nuzzle/volt switch. Volt switch has momentum and solid dmg due to light ball, while nuzzle is damaging non taunt thunder wave. Though Belle coverage is fantastic, fake out momentum and more dmg with volt tackle is needed because pikachu needs to dish out as much pain as possible. Sorry belle pikachu I still love you and you finally have a role in competitive pokemon.
Honch vs Yveltal
110/135/62/115/62/81 vs 126/131/95/131/98/99
These birds are really similar but diff. Both have great offensive abilities, dark/flying type, and have great offensive movepools to back it up. Ylvetal still has the greater bulk, speed, special atk stat but loses to honchs atk stat. However, honch is primarily physical while ylvetal is special. Dark aura is immediate power yet after 1 kill moxie is better and works on all moves. Both have priority and bb has better accuracy and power despite recoil over oblivion wing. However, 75% recovery means ylvetal doesn't really need roost, something honch really likes. Ylvetal might still be technically better but honch shows some interesting potential.
Tornadus vs Tornadus Theiran
89/125/80/135/90/121 vs 79/100/80/110/90/121
Tornadus has same def stats and speed as therian but 10 more hp and way better offensive stats. Prankster is great on the tornado but no recovery, or great prankster moves exist for it. Therian has regenerator which makes it a better hit and run poke. IE assault vest. But theiran bulk is ehh by uber standards (not OU). As for choice sets its survivability vs raw power. Life orb mix set seems cool with hurricane/heat wave/knock off/superpower. Kyogre would probably hate that unless it is scarf.
Normal vs Mega
Diancie vs mega
70/120/170/120/170/70 vs 50/160/110/160/110/110
Normal vs mega is bulk vs speed power and ability and when u begin to look at it. That's still sorta the case. Diancie lacks reliable recovery and clear body is no magic bounce. Offensive diff is still quite big and same with speed. Extreme tier shift remedies this but issues still exist.
slowbro+mega vs king
95/75/(110/180)/(100/130)/80/30 vs 115/95/100/120/130/50
Regular bro vs king is simple as it is purely by stats. Slightly better physical bulk (main reason for bro over king in the 1st place), way better special atk and bulk. Speed isn't a big deal due to abysmal speed stat. Mega limits item and no regenerator is a shame but has better special atk and physical def which makes calm mind sets better. Not to mention no crits on a set that wants to stay in and boost is better than regenerator and it does have it before evolving. If non calm mind, go with mega bro, otherwise king is back.
latias vs mega
Soul dew is way superior to mega stuff. That's all that needs to be said.
gallade vs mega
88/145/85/85/135/100 vs 68/165/95/65/115/110
Common thing, normal now usually outbulks mega. But mega out powers and speeds. I guess AV set and bulk up is now better but mega still outclasses in this case. For bulk up, shadow sneak could be used over safeguard/sub due to better coverage and priority.
aboma vs mega
100/142/115/142/115/40 vs 120/122/105/122/115/90
Trend continues. Regular is bulkier and faster but mega has higher offensive stats. If this was Gen 5, I would argue regular is better in order to win weather war. But no perma weather and primals sort of make it a tad bit obsolete.
scizor(mega as well) vs scyther
70/(130/150),(100/140),(55/65),(80/100),(65/75) vs 100/140/110/85/110/135
Funny thing. Same stat total, ability, but getting steel type makes it have the superior defensive typing. X4 fire, 1 immunity, 8 resists. X4 rock means 50% stealth rock dmg with 4 X2 weakness, immunity to ground is great though over poison, finally 2 X4 resists and 1 regular resist. However, faster than mewtwo even is no mean feat, out bulks normal scizor without evio, and out muscles standard. Which means band sets and scarf sets are way more viable on scyther. With evio, can compete with mega scizor due to better bulk at the cost of bad defensive typing. Personally do the evs to outspeed max mewtwo is really all you are going to need. (maybe come back to this)
Audino vs mega vs lickilicky
143/100/126/100/126/90 vs 133/90/156/110/156/80 vs 150/125/135/120/135/90
Special thanks to +ScarfWynaught for this comparison.
So...ETS makes Normal Stall/support mons insane. Audino and Lick are normal type wish supporters. On stats, lick has bulk that surpasses Giratina N and 125/120 offenses which for a stall mom is really really strong. Audino has lower bulk and offenses by comparison. However, audino does have regenerator in its corner allowing it to heal itself and its team at the same time. Lick has Oblivious which does make it immune to taunt but thats about it. However, lick has better support moves like knock off and dragon tail so I say Lick is better over normal audino.
Mega-Audino might have rather lame ability with healer but hey its something. With a normal/fairy type though, Audino M now can deal with dragons and get a couple of resists over mon normal types. But what Mega has over lick is its offensive capabilities. With a fantastic offensive movepool including t bolt, surf, and most of all fire blast, Audino can run a really strong cm set. But, with only 110 special attack, this role is a lot less effective than it once was. Not to mention, Audino going mega gives up a mega slot that can be spent on other things, not to mention no leftovers. Personally if u want pure stall/support, I go with lick. Better bulk, support movepool, and ability to run leftovers makes it better than Mega-Audino.
Medicham vs Mega Medicham
80/80/95/80/95/100 vs 60/100/85/80/85/100
Ok so both have the same speed which is really nice but sadly, 100 speed isnt that great in ETS. Regular Medicham’s only perks over mega is better bulk and ability to run an item but thats about it. Even then, its bulky is bad poor by ETS standards. However, choice band that and spamming STAB High Jump Kick is not a bad idea honestly. Just be wary about the speed stat
A Look at Tier Shift Ban List:
There are no banlist on Extreme tier shift (except standard ubers and now evio). So, should that banlist (no chatter,swift swim, and shadow tag) apply here?
Chatot:
116/105/85/132/82/131
In PU it is considered to be “one of the best anti-offense Pokemon in the PU Metagame” and for good reason. With STAB Boomburst and a choice scarf it outspeed and puts massive holes in the frail, fast sweepers of the PU tier. And now it has chatter. 65 BP flying special attack with 100% confusion. 131 speed lets it outspeed mewtwo,shaymin,arceus, etc and while 132 special attack is not the norm of 150, considering the BP of boomburst, this isn't nearly as big of a deal as you would think. Also, bulk is actually solid enough to take some attacks. However, mega gengar can trap any choice set locked into boomburst, decreasing viability by quite a degree and chatter means no hp fighting for coverage, or u turn for scouting. Chatter is amazing and it's hax can annoy people to death, but choice sets use the typical tactic of boomburst spam, which is very risky due to mega gengar running around, not to mention a ton of priority in this tier. Extreme killer arceus, swords dance ray are most notable examples, stab dark aura yveltal gets a mention as well. However, this could get banned though as of now, I think it's fine if a bit annoying to deal with at times. Note that if you run chatter, you only get +30 in every stat as PU has banned it.
Ludicolo:
110/100/100/120/130/100
AV Ludicolo in VGC or doubles is something I sure remember. This thing is back with a vengeance. Really good all around bulk, great offensive and defensive typing, and really amazing coverage with hydro pump, giga drain, and ice beam. At +2 ludicolo can outspeed and hit a ton of things and doesn't even need the full speed investment. I would say enough to outspeed +2 ray because ice beam can kill it before ray kills it with dragon ascent. However, special attack while solid in standard tier shift, is on the low side by tier comparison and primal groudon+no perma rain does not help swift swim. I think swift swim should stay due to primal groudon+no perma weather existing but that's just me.
Kabutops:
90/145/135/95/100/110
Ludi has better typing for defense and bulk+special attacker, kabutops is brute force and speed. Priority to help outside of rain and potential use as a rapid spinner increases viability by a ton and if it gets a swords dance off in rain, something is probably going to die. Rain team offensive spinner is a very strong idea.
Carracosta:
104/138/163/113/96/62
It has shell smash to help with poor speed, but bulkier than kabutops at least. No rapid spin and aqua jet holds it back despite shell smash+rain+swift swim idea being terrifying to face if it set up and easily could pull off.
Gorebyss:
95/124/145/154/115/92
Forget swift swimmer, this thing as a sweeper looks insane. Bulkier than kabutops, hits harder+shell smash! No stab grass move like ludi and uses psychic which is a shame but this thing doesn't even need to be on a rain team to dish out punishment.
Other really fun ideas and comparisons:
kecleon vs greninja
90/120/100/90/150/70 vs 72/95/67/103/71/122
Bulk, physical atk, and greater power vs special atk and speed is main question between the protean users. However, greninja in ubers is stupid and really only useful there as a suicide lead. Stats are to low to be relevant in this OM. Going with set posted by n8_mop. Assault vest this thing with drain punch, power up punch, shadow sneak,sucker punch. Can boost atk, semi reliable recovery, solid coverage, and 2 forms of priority.
Frogadier
84/93/82/114/86/127
Basically a better special attacking version of greninja. The boosts though are very minor compare to the monsters in terms of superior offense and bulk though. I personally think greninja should not even be ubers but that's just me.
Ursaring vs zangoose vs swellow
130/170/115/115/115/95 vs 103/145/90/90/90/120 vs 90/115/90/80/80/155
Normal type guts users. Normal might be terrible typing but stab 140 facade is nothing short of scary and look at these stats. Personally while swellow is even faster than deoxy’s A, that's about it because low atk stat and bulk by tier standards. Also, while U turn is amazing for a super fast guts user, low atk holds it back and BB recoil is not good. Zangoose is really fast, speed ties arceus, bulk is alright by tier standards, knock off and priority via quick attack is great. Ursaring just hits hard as all hell. Basically guts Kyurem B except its normal type. Crunch has less utility and power than knock off though. 95 speed and quick feet is actually really cool and smogon’s suggested set. But, I think the sheer force of its attacks with guts is superior to quick feet. Also 130/115/115 bulk is pretty incredible even by uber standards. Lack of priority is a shame though.
Leavanny vs Masquerain
115/143/120/110/120/132 vs 110/100/102/120/122/100
So this a comparison for best sticky web user. Leavanny turns out to be pretty damn solid. Extremely fast with solid bulk and a great attack stat. Set up that sticky web and run. Also has knock off and electroweb which is kinda cool. Masqerain has reliable recovery not to mention intimidate which I do admit helps a bit more. Typing wise, both are shit. Whats worse X4 fire and flying or X4 rock. Use them for sticky web and nothing more. If I had to choose, I would go with Leavanny because its faster, a bit specially bulkier, and a better supoort movepool.
Hitmonlee
70/140/73/55/130/107
Bruce Lee is back with a vengeance. Despite speed just being over 100, Hitmonlee is a offensive rapid spinner who can dish out a ton of punishment. Reckless, STAB High Jump Kick off 140 atk is nothing short of terrifying, knock off is good coverage and item removal, rapid spin is great, and then priority choice between mach and sucker. I like sucker for power, but mach is good for reliability.
Rampardos:
137/205/100/105/90/98
Welcome to a beastly choice scarf poke. STAB Head Smash off that attack stat, nuff said. Also sheer force can push coverage move power even higher like iron head for fairy types, crunch for psychics, and rock slide for a more accurate no recoil STAB at the cost of a ton of power though. Sheer force does mean life orb can work really well and with fire blast, t bold, and ice beam a potential mixed set might seem like a cool idea but its special attack is terrible by tier standards. Still great for your physical attacks. Choice scarf or sticky web support is my way to go with this thing.
Cryogonal vs Avalugg:
110/90/70/135/175/145 vs 135/157/224/84/86/68
Uber lacks rapid spinners. However, ETS provides a lot of rapid spinners new viability. Despite having really bad defensive typings, these mono ice spinners have a lot of potential due to stats and recover. Cryogonal is absurdly specially bulky even out bulking lugia and packs one of the best speed stats in the tier. It also has Freeze dry which hits water types super effectively which mean it can hit Palkia at X4 most notably plus all of the other dragons. It also has levitate which helps it switch in and deal with sticky web. Avalugg is not nearly as fast but it hits harder, its physical defense is insane and its special def is better than cryogonal’s physical def making it overall more bulky. Most notably it can phase with roar which means it can do more than just spin. Honestly it depends on your team needs because both do a really good job.
Marowak:
100/120/150/90/120/95
Remember when I did the pure/huge power stat comparison? If so congratulations for reading this much. Out bulks, speeds, and muscles Mega Mawile because thick club=huge power. Bonemerang might not be nearly as accurate but multi hit nature breaks sash,sturdy, and subs, knock off kills items, and can set up rocks makes it a great anti lead. I know that team preview hits means leads are less relevant but this can oko sash Deoxys no problem. However, needs to be wary of knock off and speed is not the best backed up with no priority. But for bulky pure/huge power like pokes, mega mawile has been replaced.
Miltank:
125/110/135/70/100/130
Back in Gen 2 this was a true terror many had to face and now mooove over because the cow is back. With the new stat boost, Miltank can be one those Normal type support pokes that can perform well that is not named blissey or chansey. It has Mewtwo’s speed stat, excellent physical bulk and special bulk. Reliable recovery, cleric, stealth rocks, t wave, and by tier standards 110 atk is kinda on the low side but it has seismic toss. Also, it can either gain an immunity to grass with sap sipper or get resists to fire and ice with thick fat. A really fast but mixed bulk normal type wall is here and the fear from gen 2 is back, now more than ever.
Archeops:
105/170/95/142/95/140
This guy is always a gamble and even with the massive stat boost.. Despite insane 170/142 mixed atk stats and an amazing 140 speed stat even by tier standards, archeops ability holds it back. Halfing both offense stats when hp goes below %50 is terrible and while it can take a hit, its bulk is around uber standard, the insane power of the tier means that Defeatist risk is high. However, going mixed is not a bad idea and in the Smogon set, doesn't even run a item due to acrobatics. Personally I would do a choice band set with stone edge/eq/knock off/u-turn. Also, while Head smash is so tempting refrain from using it due to recoil. So yeah, really fast Kyurem Black, go wild with it.
Blissey:
255/20/20/85/145/65
With Evio banned, the fatass returns with a vengeance. On top of that, it gets +10 to every stat due to being in UU (however, Blissey has max Hp so I dont think it gets an HP stat boost. If im wrong feel free to comment). However, with the influx of new powerful physical attackers, Blissey might not be nearly as good as it normally is in standard ubers. But still, Blissey’s role continues to exist now with a bit more bulk for good measure. If u are running a non wish set I rec a ev spread of
212/252+/44. If im not using wish, max leftovers number and a bit more of boost to special d is my ev spread
Tangrowth:
120/120/145/130/70/70
While normally I would be Tangela all the way because of evio. But evio is banned, Im salty about it, moving on. Honestly, while in standard tier shift this is great, here it is questionable. Mono grass is a meh defensive typing and the special d is a lot to desire. Not to mention, things to out physical bulk it here like Lick. However, regenerator is a fantastic ability and sets up well to pull off an assault vest set. Speed is crap anyway + it has moves like eq and knock off physically. Special attackers and ice and fire moves are really common here so be warned.
Shedninja
41/130/85/70/70/80
Shed is still garbage because its base hp doesn't matter, but 130 attack at least makes it hard hitting garbage.
Quaqsire
125/115/115/95/95/65
Packing better bulk and reliable recovery makes Quaqsire my go to choice for unaware users. Only weakness is X4 grass which is not heavily used in Ubers. This checks if not outright counters extreme killer, ray, blaziken, maybe checks xerneas (idk about this one). Also 30% burn hax via scald further helps Quaq against physical set up sweepers.
Tyrantrum
102/141/139/89/79/91
Rock Head+headsmash+DD? Im in. But, 91 speed is pretty bad and is weak to fight, drag, fairy, ice, ground, and steel. Rock polish is better in terms of after 1 boost because of the whole speed thing but the lost of power sucks. Not to mention, Dragons are really common in ubers and honestly dd ray is superior in basically every way. This can work but there are better options here.
Amoonguss
134/105/90/105/100/50
Only things that make it viable over tangrowth is poison typing (which could be a con due to latis, mewtwo, and deoxys running around), clear smog to screw set up sweepers, regenerator, and of course spore. But while it is bulky, compared to other things in this tier, it cant take a hit nearly as well as the other walls like giratina.
Sawsbuck
120/140/110/100/110/135
Running thing with PU pokes here, these stats are fantastic. 135 speed out does most of non boosted ubers outdoing darkrai, mewtwo, shaymin s, and arceus forms. Sap sipper can help with the switch ins and help get a atk boost. Swords dance is my set to go with this thing but chlorophyll+groudon could work really really well. Double Edge recoil sucks but power is worth it, horn leech helps recover and arceus hp stat helps.
Hydreigon
102/115/100/135/100/108
In regular tier shift this has a home. Great mixed stats, and the movepool to back it up. However, with ubers avaliable to us, better options exist. Dialga, Ray, and Zekrom hit way fucking harder to make it viable. I would consider this against Lati’s and Mewtwo but the speed stat is less than the latis. A real shame but alas, there are simply better options here.
Houndoom-Mega
85/100/100/150/100/125
Groudon makes this fun to use. Weather wars even in Gen 6 are still a bit intense. Solarbeam, fire blast, and dark pulse is already great coverage, speed ties darkrai, and even without sun, it hits as hard as fire blast off reshiram. On a sun team, this is a great idea for your mega slot but lack of perma weather means groudon needs to stay alive.
Meloetta
120/77/77/148/148/110
In this tier, this type sort of sucks. Psychics are pretty common and Meloetta doesnt do anything that special. In its speed tier, latis out do it specially and dragon is better than normal type. Mewtwo is way faster and hits harder+better coverage. Relic song sort of sucks honestly.
Hariyama
174/150/90/70/90/80
Uber standard Atk stat is very good, one of the top HP stats in the game, and defs is not that bad. Guts is a great ability, boost attacks and absorb status. Fake out makes orb easy to activate, knock off, and close combat for stab. A shame it doesnt have mach punch but bullet punch is okay. Actually, a belly drum set could work because it has the bulk to take attacks but unlike Azumarill, lack of stab priority sort of sucks.
Throh
150/130/115/60/115/75
I love this thing. Used a regenerator av set in ability unity. Nees wish support to function at its best though. Small side note question: Does guts work while asleep? If so, rest+sleep talk could work. +1 uninvested circle throws are really nice. This needs a bit more time and testing to see if its viable. Its bulk is 5 def below giratina N though and hits harder when it phazes though so there is at least that.
Mismagius
90/90/90/135/135/135
Faster than mewtwo and hits it super effectively. Can boost its special attack with nasty plot with fairy ghost coverage. LeviCan fuck stall over with really fast taunt, wow, and go boom with destiny bond. But rather meh physical bulk holds it back a bit and sucker punch fucks it hard. But its immune to e speed so that counts for something.
Octillery
115/145/115/145/115/85
The only reason i posted this is because of its movepool. 145 special atk with hydro pump, fire blast/ice beam/ energy ball/ sludge bomb is really really amazing. Not to mention 145 special attack is really good. If only we made it faster.
Ditto
Now with 88 base hp. Ehh its not a lot, but idk its still something special.
Glalie-mega
100/140/100/140/100/120
Now it has a really nice speed stat and more punch. I just want to use explosion with this thing honestly. Maybe suicide spikes lead.
