I noticed you have 0 fire moves so mixed infernape would work.
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Ferrothorn's a Bitch !
- Thread starter Alpha Wolf
- Start date
Hey, Thundurus seems to be a problem for this team. Especially when supported with rain, Nasty Plot Thundurus has a chance at sweeping your entire team. Scarf Tyrantiar would be a good replacement over Scizor since it can check Thundurus and help you beat other weathers such as drought which can be a slight problem. Scarf Tyranitar will also be able to fulfill the same role that Scizor was doing in checking faster special threats such as Starmie, Gengar, and Lati@s while being a decent Thundurus check. A set with crunch | pursuit | superpower | stone edge would work while maximizing speed and attack with a jolly nature.
For Latias' third move, I would go with substitute over thunderbolt / grass knot. Substitute provides a safety blanket against random paralysis and toxic and even more importantly Tyranitar and Scizor. Threats that Latias could not really deal with before such as Ferrothorn and more specially defensive steel types are now set up on as you have substitute. Substitute can also protect you against last pokemon Reuniclus because it prevents you from losing the calm mind war due to substitute blocking critical hits. I would also swap life orb for leftovers and run an EV spread of 252 HP | 4 SpA | 252 Spe as the life orb sweeper role of the two is generally delegated to Latios.
If you select to use Taunt on Jellicent, I would run an EV spread of 252 HP | 144 Def | 112 Spe as that will allow you to outrun and taunt Skarmory which is a reason that you stated why you use taunt. Rotom-W's spread could be bulked up to help you further deal with Landorus because it could be a nuisance in the sand. A spread of 248 HP | 252 Def | 8 Spe with a bold nature would be much more effective at dealing with Landorus than the rest of your team would. Finally, I'd bump Gliscor's speed up to 80 and run taunt over protect so that you are running a spread of 252 HP | 176 Def | 80 Spe. This will allow Gliscor to outrun and taunt stallbreaker mew with psychic so that it won't burn Gliscor before it gets its poison heal off. Also, it lets you speed creep other Gliscor so that you can get off a boosted Ice Fang first.
Cool team, good luck.
For Latias' third move, I would go with substitute over thunderbolt / grass knot. Substitute provides a safety blanket against random paralysis and toxic and even more importantly Tyranitar and Scizor. Threats that Latias could not really deal with before such as Ferrothorn and more specially defensive steel types are now set up on as you have substitute. Substitute can also protect you against last pokemon Reuniclus because it prevents you from losing the calm mind war due to substitute blocking critical hits. I would also swap life orb for leftovers and run an EV spread of 252 HP | 4 SpA | 252 Spe as the life orb sweeper role of the two is generally delegated to Latios.
If you select to use Taunt on Jellicent, I would run an EV spread of 252 HP | 144 Def | 112 Spe as that will allow you to outrun and taunt Skarmory which is a reason that you stated why you use taunt. Rotom-W's spread could be bulked up to help you further deal with Landorus because it could be a nuisance in the sand. A spread of 248 HP | 252 Def | 8 Spe with a bold nature would be much more effective at dealing with Landorus than the rest of your team would. Finally, I'd bump Gliscor's speed up to 80 and run taunt over protect so that you are running a spread of 252 HP | 176 Def | 80 Spe. This will allow Gliscor to outrun and taunt stallbreaker mew with psychic so that it won't burn Gliscor before it gets its poison heal off. Also, it lets you speed creep other Gliscor so that you can get off a boosted Ice Fang first.
Cool team, good luck.
@ SilentShadow7: Thanks for the advice man, but Gliscor / Tyranitar should be able to take care of anything that a fire type could. Infernape will be saved for another day :)
@ AB2: FINALLY, some great suggestions ! Thank you for the suggestion on Tyranitar, that's what I was looking for. Something to take down Thundurus, or even Magnezone / Jolteon. My team is super weak to thunder, and now I have something to wall that threat. I just have one question : Do you think, since my team isn't sandstorm, that I should go with Tyranitar's Dream Ability, Unnerve? Although it's useless, it would mean my team wouldn't be annoyed by a sandstorm.
@ AB2: FINALLY, some great suggestions ! Thank you for the suggestion on Tyranitar, that's what I was looking for. Something to take down Thundurus, or even Magnezone / Jolteon. My team is super weak to thunder, and now I have something to wall that threat. I just have one question : Do you think, since my team isn't sandstorm, that I should go with Tyranitar's Dream Ability, Unnerve? Although it's useless, it would mean my team wouldn't be annoyed by a sandstorm.
Alright, just one more question for this team. Should I Go with
Option A:
Calm Mind Latias
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Recover
move 3: Dragon Pulse
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Substitute / Roar
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
OR
Option B:
Choice Specs Latias
Move 1: Draco Meteor
Move 2: Dragon Pulse / Hidden Power Fire
Move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
Move 4: Trick
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Calm Mind Latias
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Recover
move 3: Dragon Pulse
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Substitute / Roar
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
OR
Option B:
Choice Specs Latias
Move 1: Draco Meteor
Move 2: Dragon Pulse / Hidden Power Fire
Move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
Move 4: Trick
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Looks pretty nice, a few minor things that I personally would have changed for it(due to personal preference)
Did you try any other ev spreads on Ferrothorn? If you go relaxed and do a 8def/248spdef spread your defenses will both be at a nice 330 and you will be pretty bulky from both sides of the spectrum.
Possibly try a CB Ttar instead of CS? With 172hp/252atk/80spdef, you get a nice bulky monster who can net some extra KO's with the added power. For me CB ttar makes it harder to revenge with because he is slower, but you gain some bulk, and can dent their switch ins making the game go by quicker.
Maybe over sub, on Latias try roar? This way you can CM up alongside something and phase it out and then get a nice sweep going.
and finally for Gliscor, did you ever try taunt on that set so you can get the SD's up easier? On almost every other set I run protect but for SD set's taunt saves me a lot.
Did you try any other ev spreads on Ferrothorn? If you go relaxed and do a 8def/248spdef spread your defenses will both be at a nice 330 and you will be pretty bulky from both sides of the spectrum.
Possibly try a CB Ttar instead of CS? With 172hp/252atk/80spdef, you get a nice bulky monster who can net some extra KO's with the added power. For me CB ttar makes it harder to revenge with because he is slower, but you gain some bulk, and can dent their switch ins making the game go by quicker.
Maybe over sub, on Latias try roar? This way you can CM up alongside something and phase it out and then get a nice sweep going.
and finally for Gliscor, did you ever try taunt on that set so you can get the SD's up easier? On almost every other set I run protect but for SD set's taunt saves me a lot.
Ah yes, the infamous CB Bulky Tyranitar. I've heard great things about it, so I'll get on switching that right away. I may run the Relaxed Ferrothorn depending, although I haven't really seen that used before. Thanks for the suggestions though, very helpful. Do you have any opinion on my Latias Gang Green ?
@Gang Green, suggesting CB Tar makes his team very weak to Thundurus. The whole point of CS tar was to patch that weakness up, changing it makes his team much more vulnerable.
However I do agree that Taunt on Gliscor over Protect would be of excellent use. Currently Skarmory can switch in on large amounts of your team and set up Spikes. Taunt on Gliscor gives you a secondary way of preventing this and turns Skarmory into set up fodder for Gliscor to SD up on. In addition it lets you beat Stallbreaker Mew which can be a bitch to large parts of your team.
Regarding Latias SubCM looks fine and it gives you another excellent weapon against Rain.
Lastly I would support you dropping Thunderbolt for Trick on Rotom W. Thunderbolt and Volt Switch are pretty similar and the scouting of Volt Switch is much more useful than than the added power of Thunderbolt. Trick gives you an extra weapon against stall (and Ferrothorn I guess) and is always a useful move to have, especially if you need to switch attacks later in the match.
GL with the team
However I do agree that Taunt on Gliscor over Protect would be of excellent use. Currently Skarmory can switch in on large amounts of your team and set up Spikes. Taunt on Gliscor gives you a secondary way of preventing this and turns Skarmory into set up fodder for Gliscor to SD up on. In addition it lets you beat Stallbreaker Mew which can be a bitch to large parts of your team.
Regarding Latias SubCM looks fine and it gives you another excellent weapon against Rain.
Lastly I would support you dropping Thunderbolt for Trick on Rotom W. Thunderbolt and Volt Switch are pretty similar and the scouting of Volt Switch is much more useful than than the added power of Thunderbolt. Trick gives you an extra weapon against stall (and Ferrothorn I guess) and is always a useful move to have, especially if you need to switch attacks later in the match.
GL with the team
oi yeah. i usually just prefer CB but having an extra thunderus weak spot is never a good thing :\ its mad late and wasnt looking at the bigger picture lol
but yeah, Sub CM works very well as does refresh/roar over sub all depends on what you think will work best for you. I like roar for when I have heavy stall teams with it, but for this sub looks very nice with this team.
the relaxed is just personal preference for me so its 330/330 defenses
but yeah, Sub CM works very well as does refresh/roar over sub all depends on what you think will work best for you. I like roar for when I have heavy stall teams with it, but for this sub looks very nice with this team.
the relaxed is just personal preference for me so its 330/330 defenses
@AlphaWolf, i guess you decided to replace scizor with Ttar then? As i thought the suggestion of Lucario sounded good... he can go both the physical or special way with his attacks, can have both vaccuum wave or bullet punch STAB as priority moves, is immune to poison and sandstorm... i don't know man, if you decided about ttar then just keep him i guess
Thought Ttar was a good choice, but if you think Lucario is a better choice for my team then I could always replace Tyranitar. Seemed like either Lucario or Tyranitar was good, but I can always change my team.
GOD DAMMIT ! I messed up Latias's nature .... So unless I trade for one I won't be getting a good Latias any time soon .... anybody have any suggestions for a new poke to replace Latias ?
Nice Team,
Only thing I see is if you want Lucario to sweep through Dragons, Genies and other speedy threats, your going to want a SD set, as he won't be able to without Extremespeed. You lose the ability to hit Jellicent and bulky Psychics, but he has much more utility for what you have him listed as. Jellicent is well covered by Rotom and your current NP set can't hit Excadrill anyways, so you won't miss to much.
Only thing I see is if you want Lucario to sweep through Dragons, Genies and other speedy threats, your going to want a SD set, as he won't be able to without Extremespeed. You lose the ability to hit Jellicent and bulky Psychics, but he has much more utility for what you have him listed as. Jellicent is well covered by Rotom and your current NP set can't hit Excadrill anyways, so you won't miss to much.
Thanks, and I will run the SD set on Lucario, seems like it'd be better. Also, do you have any suggestions on what I should replace Latias with ? Because I really don't know ..
As a replacement for Latias, I suggest a Mixmence set from the analysis:
Salamence @ Life Orb
Rash/Naive Nature
Ability : Intimidate
Ev's : 116 Atk / 216 SpA / 176 Spe
~ Draco Meteor
~ Fire Blast
~ Brick Break/Earthquake
~ Roost/Outrage
While this guy might not be able to fulfill the same role as Latias, he breaks down the opponent's team (including many walls like Ferrothorn and Jellicent) with his powerful attacks. The primary attacking moves for this set are usually Draco Meteor and Fire Blast and after either hits your opponent, the remaining moves are meant to end it. With a Rash nature, neutral base 90s are outsped (+nature base 90s are outsped with Naive). Keep certain threats such as Heatran, Blissey, the ground weak rain threats (Tentacruel and Toxicroak off the top of my head), and Stealth Rock in mind when choosing your final 2 slots.
Since you haven't gone with a Scarf Tyranitar, you could exchange your Rotom-W's Choice Specs for a Choice Scarf to help you deal with Thundurus.
Finally, I agree with Alpha Wolf that a SD Lucario set could help you achieve the end-game sweeps you would like it to.
Good luck.
Salamence @ Life Orb
Rash/Naive Nature
Ability : Intimidate
Ev's : 116 Atk / 216 SpA / 176 Spe
~ Draco Meteor
~ Fire Blast
~ Brick Break/Earthquake
~ Roost/Outrage
While this guy might not be able to fulfill the same role as Latias, he breaks down the opponent's team (including many walls like Ferrothorn and Jellicent) with his powerful attacks. The primary attacking moves for this set are usually Draco Meteor and Fire Blast and after either hits your opponent, the remaining moves are meant to end it. With a Rash nature, neutral base 90s are outsped (+nature base 90s are outsped with Naive). Keep certain threats such as Heatran, Blissey, the ground weak rain threats (Tentacruel and Toxicroak off the top of my head), and Stealth Rock in mind when choosing your final 2 slots.
Since you haven't gone with a Scarf Tyranitar, you could exchange your Rotom-W's Choice Specs for a Choice Scarf to help you deal with Thundurus.
Finally, I agree with Alpha Wolf that a SD Lucario set could help you achieve the end-game sweeps you would like it to.
Good luck.