ORAS Doubles OU First RMT - First Smogon Doubles Team

[lauwa]

Hey, so this is my first time posting on smogon, I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing in terms of creating the post so I apologise if its formated wrong, I read the guide but I'm still a bit unsure.

I started off as an OU player and after a few semi successful teams I decided to build a mono type team. I started with a successful stall team (ghost) and then got a bit bored of the long gameplay so decided to build a hyper offensive fire team based around Mega Charizard Y. From here I wondered if I could make a successful doubles team centered around Mega Charizard Y as I really liked the idea of taking down two pokemon at once with a sun boosted Heat Wave. I'd never built a doubles team before and I also really wanted to use pokemon with abilities that are useless in singles.

For the first doubles team I've built I'd say its semi successful (18 on the ladder)

The Team

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Team Building Process

I first decided I wanted a bulky dual dual screener with access to helping hand. I decided to go with Musharna as its Telepathy ability would allow me to use multi target moves without damaging Musharna aswell.

Next came the the reason for the team. Mega Charizard Y. With sun + helping hand I imagined heat wave ripping through teams.

I felt I needed to make the most of Drought so Venusaur was next to join the team. Chlorophyll + Growth in the sun make for a powerful sweeper.

I knew I wanted a Hyper Voice user for two reason; so substitute wouldn't stall out the sun and because its another multi target move. I decided Pixilate Sylveon would be perfect as it would also add a fairy type to the team.

My entire team was special based and would struggle with opposing fire types. Terrakion's fire resist, high speed and access to Earthquake and Rock Slide earned it a place on my team.

Finally I felt I needed a scarf mon. It needed to be fast enough to take on Scarf Landorus-T and be able to abuse sun or have an ability built for doubles. Victory Star V-Create Victini seemed the obvious choice.

I realised Earthquake was the only multi target move that damages team mates. With access to dual screens, helping hand, greater bulk and levitate Cresselia replaced Musharna.

Cresselia @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Helping Hand
-Thunder Wave

I always lead with Cresselia. Her main job is to provide screen support for its partner, unless I think paralysing the opponent will result in less damage being dealt overall. (So a slower pokemon can deliver a 2KO whilst only taking one lot of damage). Cresselia is total taunt bait, if I suspect a pokemon is going to use taunt I will lead with Helping Hand as its priority means it will always go before taunt regardless of prankster. The EVs are to maximise special bulk as her first move is usually reflect.

Sylveon @ Choice Specs Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest nature
-Hyper Voice
-Moonblast
-Psyshock
-Protect

I almost always lead with Sylveon as Cresselia's partner. Sylveon resists 2 of Cresselia's 3 weaknesses; dark and bug and has Hyper Voice and HP Fire for super effective damage; the latter of which is boosted by Drought if it is in play. It takes neutral damage from ghosts and has access to Shadow Ball for super effective damage in return. However, Choice Specs Pixilate Hyper Voice hits like a truck even against those that resist it. I've only used any of Sylveon's coverage moves when faced with a wide guard user, Hyper Voice is just that powerful and with a helping hand boost it's almost unstoppable. The EV's are to maximise bulk and special attack. Although physically weak, Sylveon can survive a powerful physical attack and achieve unexpected OKHO's in return. Taking out the opponents priority/fastest sweepers puts less pressure on Charizard who at base 100 is sometimes just not fast enough.
I decided to change choice specs for pixie plate as being locked into Hyper Voice was forcing me to switch when wide guard/disable was in play. Moonblast allows for a second STAB move when I need to focus on a specific target. Protect is for fake out and also so Cresselia get off a thunder wave allowing sylveon to outspeed the opponent without any prior damage.

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Calculations

252+ Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Sylveon through Reflect: 263-310 (66.9 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 280-331 (102.9 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Threats to Charizard/Venusaur

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 290-343 (73.7 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Helping Hand Hyper Voice vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 213-252 (67.1 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after recoil damage

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 207-244 (52.6 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Helping Hand Hyper Voice vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 379-447 (114.8 - 135.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Sylveon: 148-175 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Helping Hand Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 379-447 (126.7 - 149.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
-Glaciate
-V-Create
-U-Turn
-Bolt Strike

If the opponent has a team Sylveon will struggle against without screen support I will lead with Victini over Sylveon and go for the OKHO with V create whilst Cresselia uses the screen of choice. U-turn if I miss predict the opponents lead. Glaciate is for coverage against Landorus, Salamance etc, with minimal EV investment Glaciate will not OKHO but the drop in speed can force a switch. Bolt Strike is mainly for coverage against water types. I chose a Naughty nature as the majority of my team already have lower defensive stats.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze/Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
-Heat Wave
-Solarbeam
-Roost Overheat
-Focus Blast

Charizard's main role on the team is to get the sun up and punch holes in teams with Heat Wave. With a Helping Hand boost Charizard can sweep entire teams 2 pokemon at a time. Solarbeam and Focus Blast are mainly there for coverage or if I suspect the opponent will switch to a flash fire mon. Roost is for longevity incase he needs to get sun up more than once or to roost off entry hazard damage from the rare stealth rock.
Overheat allows for a very powerful fire STAB when wide guard is in play or I need to take a specific target out quickly. Although I do miss the longevity provided by Roost, Overheat has been more useful.

Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
-Growth
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Hidden Power Ground

Once Charizard has summoned the sun, I will bring out Venusaur and go for a growth boost. At +2 Venusaur becomes a deadly sweeper. When considering movesets, Giga Drain for STAB and recovery combined with black sludge as I didn't want the power drop from leaf storm and energy ball did not seem worth it. If the opposing pokemon is not week to grass I spam sludge bomb. Hidden Power Ground is mainly for heatran and other steel types that are immune to sludge bomb. The EVs and nature are to outspeed Scarf Latias and below.

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
Evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Iron Head
-Sacred Sword

Terrakion has been my saviour against opposing sun teams ripping through them with a combination of Earthquake and Rock Slide the two moves he only really ever uses. Earthquake is the move of choice if partnered with Cresselia or Charizard if not Rock Slide is also great for taking out both opponents at once (or at least taking out one and flinching the other), Iron Head for coverage on fairy types and Sacred Sword is mainly for Air Balloon Heatran. I chose Sacred Sword over Close Combat as I didn't want the stat drop and Sacred Sword ignores the opponents stat changes which is a bonus.

Conclusion

The main threat to my team so far has been Trick Room.
Victini is probably the weakest link. Although a sun boosted V-Create can be game changing it is too situational and Victory Star is not the great ability it seems (the amount of Bolt Strike's that have missed!!) I also don't have a specific "partner" for Victini. Suggestions for an alternative Scarf would be great.

Is there a better moveset for Charizard? And would Earthquake work better than Hidden Power Ground on Venusaur or is there another move I should consider?

I am a bit concerned about the lack of priority and protect type moves on my team. Do I need to add these?

I hope the descriptions I have provided are detailed enough to give you an idea of how my team works.

 

[Derivatives]

Now let's be honest here, Taunt always targets a Cresselia on a team like this, and carrying no attacking move kinda gets to you after a bit. I'd suggest just fitting Ice Beam on there to beat Lando-T easily, sun teams definitely don't like it. Reflect could be removed and you could fit Intimidate on the team somewhere or even Will-o-wisp, which is an easier route (just fit it on Victini, it'll work fine).

Next the lack of Protect kinda sucks on a Sun team, Lando-T gets you at all the wrong times and, as you said you were weak to Trick Room, it'll help you stall out the turns.

Other than that I don't see too much wrong with it, just make sure you run Protect on pretty much everything not choiced in Smogon Doubles (a few things dont ever run protect like Cresselia Kangaskhan and others) and watch out for Wide Guard.

As for the RMT formatting, it's good enough.

 

[lauwa]

Hey thanks for the advice.

I have to disagree about Cresselia as I can normally predict a taunt and use helping hand first so sylveon can OHKO the taunt user so I only have to switch once. The only users of taunt I've faced so far were talonflame and thundurus though so I don't know about other situations.

Are there any good scarf intimidate users that would fit well with this team (would landorus work?) as if I use will-o-wisp on Victini I'd loose the scarf and have to rely on venusaur in the sun.

 

[qwerts]

I'll take a shot at this :o

Cresselia

I'm not a fan of dual screens cress and i think a better set would be more offensive, as landorus-t is a big problem for you, and ice beam very useful.
Don't have a set right now and too lazy to get one.

Sylveon

Don't run hp fire on sun, the only thing i can think of it hitting is scizor and that's taking you out anyways.

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Hyper Beam
- Shadow Ball

Victini-Thundurus

You said it was your weak point, and you have enough fire coverage with zard. I don't see you having all that much of a need for another scarfer to be honest so I think speed control like Thundurus that patches up your trick room weakness with taunt would be ideal.

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 228 HP / 100 Def / 76 SpA / 84 SpD
Bold Nature
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Charizard

This set you have is iffy, roost is not good and you're lacking protect. Overheat charizard is imo the best zard y out there especially with modest nature (hitting the 100 speed tier isn't as important as it was in XY, you can even invest in bulk if you'd like)

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Heat Wave
- Overheat
- Solar Beam
- Protect

Venusaur

Lacking protect again, and growth is bad :L Also sleep powder is really great on chlorophyll venusaur. Use sash > life orb is you want. Black sludge is an awful item lol.

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Protect

Terrakion

Good choice of a mon, another weird moveset though. Close Combat/Rock Slide are the normal STABs to run, and sash is very useful. Quick guard is great for fake out and other priority.

Terrakion @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Quick Guard
- Protect

 

[lauwa]

Hey thanks for the reply. I've tried out your charizard set and replaced roost for overheat which works great. Does modest get any important ko's that timid doesn't as I'm not keen on loosing speed? Also I don't like the idea of protect on char or venusaur as I'm trying to make the most of the sun. I may try out sleep powder venusaur its just the accuracy putting me off and growth is a great move in the sun as venusaur needs the SpA boost to do significant damage.

I like the thundurus idea, any particular reason for that EV spread?

 

[Yellow Paint]

With the introduction of oras megas, who have base 110, the base 100 speed tier has become a lot less competitive. It's more and more common now to see not only modest zard, but bulky zard rather than fast. Modest doesn't really get many benchmarks, but it's more favorable now to deal more damage than outspeed only kanga. Also, zard gets easily outsped and killed by landorus and diancie, so it needs protect so you don't die.

Growth isn't viable because for it to benefit your venu it has to survive more than three turns, and it can't find many opportunities to set up. If you really feel like venusaur isn't doing enough damage, you can try leaf storm>giga drain, which does more burst damage and damage over 2 turns, but it's not as spammable and doesn't recover. Sleep powder is inaccurate, but fast sleep is really powerful and worth the risk of missing. Your original venu spread is fine, just make it modest.

Protect is the most important move in doubles. You become fully immune to attacks for one turn, so you can use that turn to take out threats with your partner. Besides some support mons, almost all non choiced mons run protect because it's such a powerful and necessary move.

Edit: qwerts' thundy spread survives latios draco and diancie diamond storm, and deals 75% to belly drum azumarill.