Pokémon Florges

[skies]

Why don't we not talk about Sylveon any more? To end, this we can all agree that Florges has better stats everywhere besides HP. Besides, why do you all want this thing to be a Wish passer? There is better stuff, it doesn't have to use it. If you want to talk about Wish passing with this thing without arguing that's cool, but all I see is "blah blah Sylveon better for better Wishes, blah blah, no it isn't!!!111!". This thread is more of which is the better wish passer at this point. Why not try something besides Wish. Access ≠ Have to use it. Like Cloyster, has Rapid Spin, but it doesn't have to use it, in fact most don't because of Shell Smash. Anyways, I'm just going to post a set that I feel should be discussed:
Choice Scarf
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Flower Veil
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moves: Hidden Power [Ground] / Moonblast / Psychic / Aromatherapy or Energy Ball

It has a very overlooked 112 Special Attack and a very nice Speed of 75. I like this set, but it isn't it's best. But still, I feel like it deserves discussion.

 

[NotSoClutch]

Why don't we not talk about Sylveon any more? To end, this we can all agree that Florges has better stats everywhere besides HP. Besides, why do you all want this thing to be a Wish passer? There is better stuff, it doesn't have to use it. If you want to talk about Wish passing with this thing without arguing that's cool, but all I see is "blah blah Sylveon better for better Wishes, blah blah, no it isn't!!!111!". This thread is more of which is the better wish passer at this point. Why not try something besides Wish. Access ≠ Have to use it. Like Cloyster, has Rapid Spin, but it doesn't have to use it, in fact most don't because of Shell Smash. Anyways, I'm just going to post a set that I feel should be discussed:
Choice Scarf
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Flower Veil
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moves: Hidden Power [Ground] / Moonblast / Psychic / Aromatherapy or Energy Ball

It has a very overlooked 112 Special Attack and a very nice Speed of 75. I like this set, but it isn't it's best. But still, I feel like it deserves discussion.

It is an interesting set and does use florges speed advantage, but it doesnt seem to have the coverage for a scarf set. It might score some surprise KOs and does cause switches due to its ability to wall certain things. I love that you included HP ground for pesky heatran and excadill that tend to switch in on florges. Im not sure what all it would outspeed, but being able to surprise dragonite, non scarf chomp, zygarde, salamence, most gliscor, etc. Is a really nice perk. Florges does hit harder with coverage moves than sylveon which is nice too. I apologize for talking so much about sylveon, however the two are very similar and I wanted to clear some things up about where they each stand when using the posted set.

 

[mizore_s]

Why don't we not talk about Sylveon any more? To end, this we can all agree that Florges has better stats everywhere besides HP. Besides, why do you all want this thing to be a Wish passer? There is better stuff, it doesn't have to use it. If you want to talk about Wish passing with this thing without arguing that's cool, but all I see is "blah blah Sylveon better for better Wishes, blah blah, no it isn't!!!111!". This thread is more of which is the better wish passer at this point. Why not try something besides Wish. Access ≠ Have to use it. Like Cloyster, has Rapid Spin, but it doesn't have to use it, in fact most don't because of Shell Smash. Anyways, I'm just going to post a set that I feel should be discussed:
Choice Scarf
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Flower Veil
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moves: Hidden Power [Ground] / Moonblast / Psychic / Aromatherapy or Energy Ball

It has a very overlooked 112 Special Attack and a very nice Speed of 75. I like this set, but it isn't it's best. But still, I feel like it deserves discussion.

IMO, Gardevoir outclasses it. Better SpA, Spe and coverage.

 

[November Blue]

I like the idea of a Scarf set. Florges definitely has the stats for offensive roles. In comparison to Gardevoir:

Gardevoir: 68 HP / 65 Atk / 65 Def / 125 SpA / 115 SpDef / 80 Spe

Florges: 78 HP / 65 Atk / 68 Def / 112 SpA / 154 SpDef / 75 Spe

Gardevoir has better SpA and Speed with Trace, but the Psychic typing...

It loses the Bug and Dark resistances and gains a Psychic one. I guess Gardy does outclass Florges offensively, but it's not a huge difference, and the defensive benefits are pretty good. I think that Florges has the superior SubCM set, but Gardevoir's ability, wider movepool, and better offenses give it the advantage when using Specs/Scarf/attacking sets.

Sylveon, Florges, Gardevoir, Togekiss... all of these Fairies have really similar stats.

 

[PrincessDerpy]

Sylveon, Florges, Gardevoir, Togekiss... all of these Fairies have really similar stats.

Their abilities make quite the distinction though, so it ends up as Sylveon and Florges being the most similar where Togekiss has Serene Grace and Gardevoir is more offensively minded being both the fastest of the four and most frail.

Really wish that there was more distinction between Florges and Sylveon, right now they're both like slightly different recipes for vanilla ice cream.

 

[El Coqui]

Their abilities make quite the distinction though, so it ends up as Sylveon and Florges being the most similar where Togekiss has Serene Grace and Gardevoir is more offensively minded being both the fastest of the four and most frail.

Really wish that there was more distinction between Florges and Sylveon, right now they're both like slightly different recipes for vanilla ice cream.

Thus comparison is unfortunately inevitable so really, even talking of Florges alone brings in Sylveon in some way.

 

[Stevo09]

One really good set for Florges that I made up myself that works really really well is:

Nature:Modest@Assault Vest
Evs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Def, 4 HP
Moves:
Moon Blast
Petal Dance
Grass knot
Psychic
The purpose of the Def Evs is so Florges becomes more well-rounded since it's Sp. Def is already so high especially with an Assaut Vest equipped. Grass Kno has to do with the likes of heavier opponents such as Mega Aggron and Tyranitar. Moon Blast is it's main form of STAB an Psyhic adds a bit more coverage to faint Poison types. It'll be able to take a hit an provide nice damage making it a viable use in most teams.

 

[Hidious]

Really wish that there was more distinction between Florges and Sylveon, right now they're both like slightly different recipes for vanilla ice cream.

Except Sylveon is Ben and Jerry's while Florges is McDonald's soft serve.

 

[aVocado]

I really don't understand why people would choose Florges over Sylveon in OU. Sylveon outclasses it in every single possible way, offensively and defensively. The only thing it misses out on is Florges's 75 speed, Sylvy only has 60.

 

[November Blue]

One really good set for Florges that I made up myself that works really really well is:

Nature:Modest@Assault Vest
Evs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Def, 4 HP
Moves:
Moon Blast
Petal Dance
Grass knot
Psychic
The purpose of the Def Evs is so Florges becomes more well-rounded since it's Sp. Def is already so high especially with an Assaut Vest equipped. Grass Kno has to do with the likes of heavier opponents such as Mega Aggron and Tyranitar. Moon Blast is it's main form of STAB an Psyhic adds a bit more coverage to faint Poison types. It'll be able to take a hit an provide nice damage making it a viable use in most teams.

This is an awful set. Not only does it have two Grass-type moves, but the EVs are horribly inefficient. You want at least some HP investment.

Gardevoir and Sylveon do this far better, and you should use one of those, IMO. Gardevoir has Trace, STAB Psyshock, and Shadow Ball, while Sylveon has Pixilate Hyper Voice and Psyshock.

Why do people always choose Florges over any other Fairy-type? Is it because it's easy to find ingame?

It's so ugly and unappealing!

 

[Always!]

This is an awful set. Not only does it have two Grass-type moves, but the EVs are horribly inefficient. You want at least some HP investment.

Gardevoir and Sylveon do this far better, and you should use one of those, IMO. Gardevoir has Trace, STAB Psyshock, and Shadow Ball, while Sylveon has Pixilate Hyper Voice and Psyshock.

Why do people always choose Florges over any other Fairy-type? Is it because it's easy to find ingame?

It's so ugly and unappealing!

Florges has some advantages over some of them, despite being rather small. (Speed over Sylveon, etc...)

Also, why would you come over here to just say that, this is a Florges Thread, and the only pokemon that Florges can be compared to in almost every facet is Sylveon, who has better HP, a better ability aand.... that's it. It can Wish pass better. Fantastic.

Sidenote, I've had it on my team, and don't you dare call her "ugly" or "unappealing" :P

 

[November Blue]

Florges has some advantages over some of them, despite being rather small. (Speed over Sylveon, etc...)

Also, why would you come over here to just say that, this is a Florges Thread, and the only pokemon that Florges can be compared to in almost every facet is Sylveon, who has better HP, a better ability aand.... that's it. It can Wish pass better. Fantastic.

Sidenote, I've had it on my team, and don't you dare call her "ugly" or "unappealing" :P

I said it because, if you want to use Florges, you want to do it right. Florges has no place in OU. It should only be used in doubles, or the tier below wherever Sylveon ends up.

And I maintain that Florges is hideous. Its flower-wearing is pretentious, its pale white face is sickly, and its beady eyes are evil.

 

[Always!]

I said it because, if you want to use Florges, you want to do it right. Florges has no place in OU. It should only be used in doubles, or the tier below wherever Sylveon ends up.

And I maintain that Florges is hideous. Its flower-wearing is pretentious, its pale white face is sickly, and its beady eyes are evil.

Depends on what your definition of "right" is. I won't touch upon the Sylveon part till that gets settled, after reading some posts above.

However, Florges has somethings Sylveon doesn't, like a move to get past its Poison type checks.

Meh, it's something. GF did a horrible job with this situation, 2 pokemon that are extremely similar. I also like Florges's design, but it's probably because she was on my team.

Also, what do you mean doubles? Does Florges have some type of strategy there?

 

[AOPSUser]

Depends on what your definition of "right" is. I won't touch upon the Sylveon part till that gets settled, after reading some posts above.

However, Florges has somethings Sylveon doesn't, like a move to get past its Poison type checks.

Meh, it's something. GF did a horrible job with this situation, 2 pokemon that are extremely similar. I also like Florges's design, but it's probably because she was on my team.

Also, what do you mean doubles? Does Florges have some type of strategy there?

So you know a bunch of Poison-types that can wall Sylveon's Psyshock?

Also in Doubles it has Symbiosis, that's it really.

 

[El Coqui]

So you know a bunch of Poison-types that can wall Sylveon's Psyshock?

Drapion takes neutral to Fairy and is immune to Psyshock and 2HKO Sylveon (both defensive and specially defensive) with Poison Jab. Special Wall Florges is OHKO after rocks by Drapion.

Unfortunately I think Drapion is the only one that can counter defensive Sylveon but this is not the thread for that

 

[Always!]

So you know a bunch of Poison-types that can wall Sylveon's Psyshock?

Also in Doubles it has Symbiosis, that's it really.

True.

Welp, guess that's that then. I'm sure this thread will find some strategy or something, but as it is, Florges seems like a poor man's Sylveon.

 

[bookwyrm]

Eh, I could see Florges having use on teams over Sylveon ON A CART, particularly for those who don't RNG. To get Hyper Voice and Heal Bell on Eevee you need to use 5th gen move tutors, which means you can't take advantage of the improved Destiny Knot. Therefore, it's much easier to breed a Florges with good IVs than a Sylveon. Not to mention many people don't have access to Pokebank yet.

None of this matters on simulator play, though, so on Pokemon Showdown Florges is outclassed.

 

[AOPSUser]

Eh, I could see Florges having use on teams over Sylveon ON A CART, particularly for those who don't RNG. To get Hyper Voice and Heal Bell on Eevee you need to use 5th gen move tutors, which means you can't take advantage of the improved Destiny Knot. Therefore, it's much easier to breed a Florges with good IVs than a Sylveon. Not to mention many people don't have access to Pokebank yet.

None of this matters on simulator play, though, so on Pokemon Showdown Florges is outclassed.

Every good cart battler knows how to RNG. Or they can afford to spend 10 hours a day breeding in BW2, but I highly doubt the latter.

Even without RNG, Florges is still outclassed as a Wish passer, and a special sponge, although not as a cleric. Still not that great of a niche, especially since Blissey exists.

 

[November Blue]

Every good cart battler knows how to RNG. Or they can afford to spend 10 hours a day breeding in BW2, but I highly doubt the latter.

Even without RNG, Florges is still outclassed as a Wish passer, and a special sponge, although not as a cleric. Still not that great of a niche, especially since Blissey exists.

Not as a cleric? Huh? What do you mean?

 

[Punchshroom]

Not as a cleric? Huh? What do you mean?

He probably means that players who don't want to RNG BW2 Eevee or something won't be using Heal Bell Sylveon (or Togekiss), and so Florges would be the only option for a pure Fairy cleric. Sylveon would likely be worth the effort, though.

 

[LittleTLK]

I still don't understand why the Florges line isn't fairy/grass. Like...wtf. Would be nice to add a water and electric resistance to her as well as stab on her grass moves.

Anyway, I can see Florges being a lower-tier sylveon. If they're in the same tier, the only reason to use Florges over the other seems to be personal preference. However, if Florges finds herself in the lower tiers, she could make a good name for herself with the wish/protect/aromatherapy/filler set. I'd only use her on a team that's really weak to status AND strong special attackers.

Florges has potential to be a specs user, though. Maximum HP/Sp att investment with a modest nature would give you enough bulk to switch in and out and still hit pretty damned hard with moonblast.

Florges WANTS to be a special wall/support, but her HP stat is just too low to make her stand out from her competition.

 

[aVocado]

Florges has potential to be a specs user, though. Maximum HP/Sp att investment with a modest nature would give you enough bulk to switch in and out and still hit pretty damned hard with moonblast.

Florges WANTS to be a special wall/support, but her HP stat is just too low to make her stand out from her competition.

Except, once again, Sylveon outclasses -greatly- as a specs user. I honestly don't know why this thread remains open, Florges is obviously not OU-material when there's Sylveon in the tier.

I'm sorry if you're going to say "but this is a florges thread, it's a different pokemon!", it's the truth, Sylveon outclasses in every singe possible way, both offensively (with pixilate) and defensively, with arguably better overall bulk, only for the expense of 15 less base speed than Florges.

 

[LittleTLK]

Except, once again, Sylveon outclasses -greatly- as a specs user. I honestly don't know why this thread remains open, Florges is obviously not OU-material when there's Sylveon in the tier.

I'm sorry if you're going to say "but this is a florges thread, it's a different pokemon!", it's the truth, Sylveon outclasses in every singe possible way, both offensively (with pixilate) and defensively, with arguably better overall bulk, only for the expense of 15 less base speed than Florges.

That's what I said.

But there's more to battling than OU. Florges can function in the lower tiers, and while it struggles to find use in the OU environment, it's not total dead weight to a team.

This may be a very competitive leaning forum, but there is something to be said for using the pokemon you like. There may be people out there that want to use certain pokemon over others, even when the numbers aren't in their favor. Therefore, those pokemon are worth looking at.

Don't get so caught up in the numbers game.

 

[rachet67]

That's what I said.

But there's more to battling than OU. Florges can function in the lower tiers, and while it struggles to find use in the OU environment, it's not total dead weight to a team.

This may be a very competitive leaning forum, but there is something to be said for using the pokemon you like. There may be people out there that want to use certain pokemon over others, even when the numbers aren't in their favor. Therefore, those pokemon are worth looking at.

Don't get so caught up in the numbers game.

Since this thread is in Competitive OU discussion, we really should only be talking about Florges in the OU environment, and in using it in a competitive manner. As it stands, there is no reason to use Florges competitively in OU since Sylveon exists. Don't know why this thread is still open.

 

[subfer1]

Wow... So much hate towards Florges on this thread. Anyways, I have been using a Florges in competitive battling, with my friends around here and online, and she is a monster. Took good enough breeding to get HP Ground on her, but she rocks. Though I know I'm going to get a bashing of "Sylveon outclasses it", I don't care. This is my set:

Bold Nature @ Leftovers
252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Sp. Att.
Moon Blast
Hidden Power Ground
Calm Mind
Substitute

A resisted Moon Blast hits harder than a neutral HP Ground, but after a couple of boosts, Moonblast can kill even resisting foes. It's crazy how many people panic after they realize I am setting up; and yes, it needs the chance for setting up, but often times she has single handedly taken out teams after a couple of CMs.
Also, Recover is still listed in the OP in this thread, and it doesn't seem like there have been any changes in a while...