Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

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I'm in LOVE with Type: Null. It looks like something straight out of Dark Souls or Shin Megami Tensei (sort of). It gives off a sinister, tragic vibe. The helmet just adds to the mystery... The site says it controls its latent abilities and slows it down. This sounds like a perfect opportunity for a different form. Helmet: +Atk, +Def, -SpA, -Spe? No helmet could simply be the reverse. Even if it's just this form, I love the incorporation of a story into its design. It's the same reason I find Mewtwo so incredible. Jangmo-o seems to be the first stage of the pseudo legend line. Here's hoping it'll evolve into an awesome dual type Dragon (Fighting or Steel, please) instead of something like Drampa. Alolan Raticate is hilarious with its pouches stuffed with food (read: not pancakes, but Ratatouille). But let's get to the next awesome design: UB-01. I don't even care if it's a catchable Pokemon. It's a very Lovecraftian inspired space jellyfish. You either love it or hate it. This game just needs to come out so I can stop gushing over the designs.
 
Oh hey, looking at another leak, remember the 2 stage cat pokemon thing? Its normal type in the wild, but when bred it gains a the first type of their parent? Well I was super suspicious, but then GF hands us a literal chimera pokemon...

I want to believe, but it doesn't look like a cat at all, and its supposedly a 2 stage...which doesn't sound right for this pokemon. Still.... It IS a Chimera.... hmmm....

EDIT: Oh wait it has cat ears on its helm, balls.
 

CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
Timeline has NEVER changed, even when shifting over to a new timeline. This is how the timeline we're on now looks like:

Events of Kanto & ORAS first
(3 years later)
Events of Johto & Events of Sinnoh.
(? years later)
Events of Black & White
(2 years later)
Events of BW2 & XY
(? years later)
Sun & Moon

There just has been no game based on how events of Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh, and the Unova games. HOWEVER the events of those games still happened, its just that the details would be vague.

Now we don't know whether XY or Sun & Moon happened in the old timeline, especially XY since those games sort of rely on the Ultimate Weapon firing.
Correct me If I'm wrong, but wasn't it confirmed that the ORAS Demo take place a few months before XY? That would imply that RBGY/FRLG, RSE/ORAS, and XY take place at the same time if the previous Gen timelines weren't moved around, but someone in a Pokecenter in XY said that Gary Oak visited Kalos, which probably means that XY took place after RBGY/FRLG.
That said, until someone confirms what is said or disproves it, we can agree on three things. The first is that we respectfully disagree on our timeline theorys. The second is that thinking about the timeline doesn't help much with where Sun and Moon fit into it/them, and the third thing is that thinking about multiple time lines can cause headaches.


With that out of the way, it's time for me to compare the latest Alola From with it's "Normal" counterpart. The obvious changes are that it's black instead of orange/brown, weight gain which is most noticeable at the cheeks, and the belly looking like it was too fat to swim in a tiny mud puddle instead of being solid tan. The less obvious stuff includes the ruffled or longer fur going down its entire back instead of just the head and the claws and tail being paler. Both the the hand claws and feet claws are less \|/ shaped and more ||| shaped. The tail seams to be slightly shorter and thicker, but the whiskers are definitely shorter and thicker. The final thing I noticed are that the eyes are Red and are "Four Sided" instead of "Triangle Shaped."

From a Darwinist stand point, ether this thing is good at commanding Rattata, or Darwin is facepalming.
 
Timeline has NEVER changed, even when shifting over to a new timeline. This is how the timeline we're on now looks like:

Events of Kanto & ORAS first
(3 years later)
Events of Johto & Events of Sinnoh.
(? years later)
Events of Black & White
(2 years later)
Events of BW2 & XY
(? years later)
Sun & Moon

There just has been no game based on how events of Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh, and the Unova games. HOWEVER the events of those games still happened, its just that the details would be vague.

Now we don't know whether XY or Sun & Moon happened in the old timeline, especially XY since those games sort of rely on the Ultimate Weapon firing.
Honestly, the largest support for your argument comes from the Delta Episode. In the Advanced timeline, Rayquaza never stopped the meteor, and Deoxys ended up on Birth Island. In the Mega universe, Rayquaza stopped the meteor, and encountered Deoxys there. As the Deoxys was found on Birth Island in both FRLG and Emerald, with the implication that it would be there for RS as well, this event inexplicably ties ORAS to FRLG, regardless of the very real possibility of time shifts.

However, as you said, we don't know if the events of Kalos and Alola happened in the Advanced universe, because Megas didn't exist, because the Ultimate Weapon wasn't used. Therefore, we don't actually know yet how the events of Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh, or Unova would have progressed in the Mega universe. Mega Evolutions and the Fairy-types are each very large butterflies to throw into the mix, and we don't know how things would have changed; we don't even know Z-Moves fit into this yet. But, as an example, say that Lance was defeated by someone who's Togekiss was a fairy-type, and not a normal-type. Say that losing this fight resulted in Lance being closer to Mahogany Town than he would have been (such as in Blackthorn?), and he was able to stop Team Rocket before they could force the evolution of the Red Gyarados. Therefore, there was no sighting to incite Barry into dragging Lucas or Dawn to Lake Verity, and the core of the Sinnoh events was heavily altered accordingly.

Of course, Game Freak won't make dramatic changes like that, but to say that the timelines never change is too strong of a statement; as an aside, recall that Celio and Lanette worked with Bill to build communications between Kanto and Hoenn. Bill is the only character canonically know to technologically incorporate time travel into his transfer system. In addition, both Colosseum and Gale of Darkness are capable of communicating with Kanto and Hoenn, despite the fact that the events of the games took place five years apart from each other. If not for the official statment on the chronology of the series, the timeline would be much more fluid and unstable than it appears at first glance. That all aside, whatever changes are inevitably made in the Sinnoh and Unova remakes can be attributed to this butterfly effect, and the Delta Episode acts as proof of this.
 
Okay so either Lusamine is a No Mans Sky fan and got the colors wrong or she has a GIANT z-crystal on her dress. She isn't the only one though, poke-mei has one and Faba has on. It's kinda hard to differentiate what kind of z-crystals they are, but I know that we haven't seen Lusamine's before.
 
Friendly reminder that Type:Null is 6 feet tall and 200 pounds. The trailer and the art doesn't really portray its size well.
So just how in reality Infernape is significantly taller than Lucario and Magmortar, the dex bses again.

Although this time it makes much less sense because this Pokemon was genetically modified in a freaking lab and unless species whose sizes and weights differ from shorter version to taller version this Pokemon has the exact same traits throughout..
 
I personally don't think Type: Null will be catchable as "Type: Null," but will be catchable when its helm comes off and its true identity is revealed in the story (possibly as the rumored third Pokemon of a legendary trio with sun lion and moon bat)
 
Why does UB-01 look exactly like the Professor's assistant Lillie? Is she an "Ultra Beast"?

Maybe the creature inside of Lillie's bag is UB-1? The official site says Ultra Beats can change their form so it's not too far fetched to think they could change there size too. Whenever it appears outside of the bag it takes on a form similar to Lillie since they're friends. Idk just some food for thought.
 
Honestly, I'd be all for the idea of fighting with Aether at the beginning against Skull, only to realize that Skull was right, and working alongside them to take Aether down. Make us question our morals and our sense of right and wrong. Let us be surprised by just who the bad guy is, and don't make it as obvious as Lysandre was. The last time I was honestly surprised by the final boss was in Colosseum, because this nice, innocent old man came out of nowhere to be the bad guy, and I didn't see it coming. I'd like to see something like that again.
I'd be all for this not cos of all the good legit reasons u said but because i get to ride with MY BOY GUZMA
 
Oh hey, looking at another leak, remember the 2 stage cat pokemon thing? Its normal type in the wild, but when bred it gains a the first type of their parent? Well I was super suspicious, but then GF hands us a literal chimera pokemon...

I want to believe, but it doesn't look like a cat at all, and its supposedly a 2 stage...which doesn't sound right for this pokemon. Still.... It IS a Chimera.... hmmm....

EDIT: Oh wait it has cat ears on its helm, balls.
I did not notice that until you pointed it out. Good catch. I really want the "Cat who's evolution typing depends on the parents" thing to be true. Having a kind of mini-arceus analoge could add a lot to the game unless it has a garbage movepool.

I believe that you're missing something here. This is Pokémon. Environmental extremists? They're an evil group. Humanitarian group? They're an evil group. PETA? They're an evil group. Pokémon has literally trained us to encounter significant groups such as Team Skull and the Aether Foundation as though they're the bad guys. Granted, the stories have become deeper and more complex as time goes on, but can you honestly say that you believe that we won't come to blows the Aether in one way or another? Your comparison works for say, Silph Co., but this isn't the real world. In this fictional world, every business or organization or movement that has interacted with us as a main plot element have ended up being antagonistic at one time or another.

Honestly, I'd be all for the idea of fighting with Aether at the beginning against Skull, only to realize that Skull was right, and working alongside them to take Aether down. Make us question our morals and our sense of right and wrong. Let us be surprised by just who the bad guy is, and don't make it as obvious as Lysandre was. The last time I was honestly surprised by the final boss was in Colosseum, because this nice, innocent old man came out of nowhere to be the bad guy, and I didn't see it coming. I'd like to see something like that again.
Like an PETA isn't already evil. (they have handed kids comic books telling them their parents butcher small animals.) Sadly, I think at this juncture if Aether is evil, most of the people here would be all "I KNEW IT!" So the surprise ain't there as much. But the reveal can still be judged objectively.

Maybe the creature inside of Lillie's bag is UB-1? The official site says Ultra Beats can change their form so it's not too far fetched to think they could change there size too. Whenever it appears outside of the bag it takes on a form similar to Lillie since they're friends. Idk just some food for thought.
Considering it can shapeshift, maybe Lillie is UB-1 disgused as a younger version of Lusamine?

Exactly what I'm hoping for, too. I also want them to be challenging, even if it means having 2 Abilities or 5-6 moves or something. Ultra Beasts aren't Pokemon, after all, and I want them to feel different from them.
I would be okay if we didn't fight the Ultra Beasts, tbh. They aren't Pokemon, so having a Pokemon battle with them where they use Pokemon attacks doesn't seem to jive with me. Summoning Solgaleo/Lunala to seal them away or something would work out okay imo.
 
Okay so either Lusamine is a No Mans Sky fan and got the colors wrong or she has a GIANT z-crystal on her dress. She isn't the only one though, poke-mei has one and Faba has on. It's kinda hard to differentiate what kind of z-crystals they are, but I know that we haven't seen Lusamine's before.
She has the same thing on the back of her hair, you can see it in the Japanese trailer. I suspect it's just an ornament... That might be used as something more later.
 
Not only this, but the normal-type seems to used for unclassified types. When the fairies were retconned in, the only pokémon who received full type changes (the Clefairy, Snubbull, and Togepi lines) were all normal-types originally, as opposed to the pokémon who simply gained fairy as a secondary type. Likewise, the three moves that were retconned to be fairy-type, Moonlight, Sweet Kiss, and Charm, were also normal-type moves.

Another thing that's interesting about Null: Type is that there's an implied...I don't want to say form change, but rather, power up that comes with it. The official site states that the helmet is "a piece of equipment designed to control its latent powers. It’s extremely heavy, so it also serves to hinder Type: Null’s agility". To me, this sounds not unlike the armor that Giovanni used on Mewtwo in the anime, or the Red Chain Cyrus used on Dialga and Palkia. I can't image they would go out of their way to draw attention to it without playing on it, but then again, this is Pokémon, home of the Grey Dragon and AZ's Floette. It could just be flavor text. It just feels like this pokémon is going to be important, somehow. It should be noted that there was a mission spoken of in the past tense that speaks of Null: Type having a great power.
One thing that struck me about Type: Null is that his appearance and name are so peculiar that I was actually confused at first. Then when the dust settled I saw that it was a Normal type with Battle Armor. That's surprisingly....normal for a Pokemon that's weird in so many other respects. I expected at least a signature ability. So I'm wondering if Type: Null is hiding a secret. Perhaps there is an "unleashed" form without the Helmet as others have speculated.
 

dialganet

Banned deucer.
Wow, this SuMo generation is shaping up like crazy... a second team/organization? I actually hope it's a sign of a more intricated and longer plot, we could definitely use something like that, since competitive has become easier and easier and people that like deep immersion in a game (like myself) are probably going to enjoy these games a lot. Out of the new piece of information, two things strike me the most: Aether Org. and Type:Null.

For Aether I have two theories, I will use the spoiler tag here since I will use an example from A song of Ice and Fire to explain them (it's a very minor spoiler from the beginning of book 5, but hey I know there are a lot of Game of Thrones fans around and I don't want to tell them any information contained in the books that they might not want to read):

To me, Skull and Aether are either partners in crime or flat-out at each other's throats.


1)
So, at the beginning of A Dance With Dragons, a character name Illyrio explains how he and another character, Varys, became rich. Varys spied on thiefs, hoarding their takings. Illyrio, on the other hand, helped people being robbed retrieving their things. Obviously, they were in league with each other: thiefs soon learnt to spy on each other to Varys and increased the stashes and information he had his hands on. Illiryo got paid for retrieving things he perfectly knew the whereabouts of. Both grew extremely rich: Illyrio in coin, and Varys in spies and informers.


What does Aether need? Pokemon to experiment with. What does Skull need? Freedom to act, if they're nothing more than gangsters. In such a scenario, Guzma & co. would steal Pokémon like the old wild Team Rocket, and sell them to Aether via underground suppliers. Aether would have access to a boatload of Pokemon, either by purchases or by puttlng up a show of battling Skull. Skull would have a big organization opposing them publicly but in reality supporting their activities - and lousy and idle big, national organizations are a huge help for lowlife criminals.

2) Gladion is a relative of the other blond guys, like a brother/son, but it opposes their experiments, artifical mons, and is convinced to fight and dismantle his family's organization and uses Team Skull for it (his sentence about "hurting pokemon for no reason" at least hints at him being kind to them, something not that usual in villain teams).
OMG he's Daemon Blackfyre reborn. He even dresses in black and has blond/platinum hair. Ok, I'll stop with ASOIAF references now. They've nothing to do with Pokemon.
As such, he joins Team Skull to unveil the evil done by Aether and use any means necessary to stop them.

Either of them, or they're part of completely different subplots and I'm completely wrong and off the target. Which is usually the case, btw.

Now, Type:Null. As others have already pointed out, its name is translated in both Spanish and Italian, languages that had always kept English Pokenames. I can't speak for Spanish (I had a decent Spanish once, but I haven't spoken it for years and now it's grown dull) but the Italian translation is worth analysing. The original Type:Null give me more of a failure vibe (like the Null value in programming and/or databasing) than a starting point. Instead, Tipo:Zero has a comparable meaning but we have a similar word that could have been used (Nullo). Tipo:Zero seems more of a starting point in experimenting, like a Alpha/Beta software or the initial outcome of an experiment used as a milestone comparison. Maybe Type:Null was created to replicate legends (or at least their powers) but its power needed constraints, hence the mask and the Zero/Null name. It could have different forms focused on enhancing some stats at the expence of others (were it another mon, its description would have been perfect for a Mega candidate) or other similar, artificial labmons could be lurking (Type:Value, Type: One, Tipo:Uno and so on...). I really don't know what to think about it.
 
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Type:Null? Is it a fan of Type-Moon's works? It looks pretty damn tiny for something that's meant to be 6 foot tall, but maybe thats from head to tail.

I liked the Japanese trailer more, it felt like it showed off a lot of areas and some plot scenes. Though the '12 hours apart' thing is what interests me the most.
 
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