SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion

meanwhile the next episode is called "Sweep" & seems to already show the g-max vs mega battle so something tells me that Diantha's battle is going to be a little quick
Gonna be some straight up Tauros bull for Diantha.

I figured as much. Down with Leon!

Glad to see the anime is blazing through the Masters battles so we can instead focus on Chloe's Eevee and other meaningless plotlines.
 

KaenSoul

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At least we are finally out of filler hell but we all know there will be twice the amount of filler before the finals
I have high hopes for Ash Vs Cynthia, but we all know the other battle won't be any better than Leon vs Alain or Diantha vs Lance
 
This episode was so trash. :totodiLUL:

So lemme get this straight, we got 2 episodes of absolutely pointless filler, a recap, and a break before the semis. Ok, I guess they wanted to give the animators rest and time to work. Great idea, I'm totally cool with that. If anything, I wish they did the same on the games' front.

Then we got... Filler (feat. Literal Children). :regiF:

The battle itself was terrible and somewhat oddly animated. Terrible pace too. Riveting. What was the point of having Diantha thoroughly outplay Lance again? Great job making people expect actual battles, poor girl went out sad like her game counterpart.

Oh well, I guess the main event is about to start.
 
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ScraftyIsTheBest

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The battle itself was terrible and somewhat oddly animated. Terrible pace too. Riveting. What was the point of having Diantha thoroughly outplay Lance again? Great job making people expect actual battles, poor girl went out sad like her game counterpart.
The issue isn't Diantha herself, it's Leon. None of this is Diantha's fault.

To be clear, I love Leon in SwSh the games, he's my favorite game Champion thus far, but in the anime his character's execution has been pretty terrible. The writers don't seem to know how to differentiate between "unbeatable" and "invincible/untouchable". His status as the "unbeatable Champion" worked with respect to SwSh in the gameverse because that was something he held only in Galar, and what also made it clear he wasn't perfect was the existence of his rival Raihan, who was stated in-universe to be able to go toe-to-toe with Leon and actually come close to beating him. He's strong because he's a guy who's always learning from his battles. The games did a solid job at actually humanizing Leon in many ways.

But the anime just dropped the ball with him. Journeys seems to be juggling between wanting to be the Gen 8 anime and thus represent Galar and SwSh while also being a world tour multiregion celebration anime series for Pokemon, and as such Leon's character had to be adjusted accordingly...and they fumbled it bad. Leon's unbeatable status as Galar's greatest Champion was extended to him being the strongest Trainer in the entire world, and the writers basically wrote him to be a million times stronger than every single Champion. Like Cynthia is in the second spot, but the writers seem to want to make it clear that their version of Leon is far, far above even Cynthia. Like if you take the rest of the M8, the likes of Lance, Cynthia, Steven, and Diantha are all relative to each other in strength, same with Iris and Alain, but then they decided that to work with Leon's status as "unbeatable" that he should be leagues above even the veteran Champions who are in the M8.

And the execution of his battles to showcase his strength has been absolutely awful. They don't know how to write Leon being strong without making his battles being written as "Leon strong hype, Leon strong hype". A good way to humanize him would be to have him show some signs of struggling against his opponents, but no, he has to totally pulverize every last one of them. The only time he showed any times of a close fight is his first on-screen with Lance, and that was mitigated by it being a 1v1. Raihan got treated bad by this anime series because while he's still Leon's rival even in the animeverse he had no chance to show off his capability to go neck and neck with Leon because he was only shown in yet another pathetic 1v1. And then you have the likes of Flint and Alain, who in their originating series had some excellent showing and proved themselves to be great, powerful Trainers, and they get totally wrecked by Leon with minimal effort. Leon doesn't even use any sort of thought or strategy to win his battles: he does it just brute force without lifting a finger. The anime just doesn't succeed in making him compelling as a strong Champion at all, his battles have been half-baked and poorly thought out while being the most boring, soulless victories ever.

On the other hand, I can say that Diantha did a better job against Leon than any of his previous opponents, as she managed to take down two of his mons on-screen, more than any of his past opponents thus far, and managed to put up a fight against G-Max Charizard that left Leon impressed, but her battle here was really another example of the glaring issue of how Leon has been handled in the anime.

I am still rooting for Ash to win against Leon when he makes it to him, and I hope they stop with the Leon strong, Leon strong shit and actually make Ash vs. Leon a compelling and exciting battle like Ash vs. Cynthia is seemingly setting itself up to be. (Counter Shield and Rock Tomb Climb in the Ash vs. Cynthia battle, ie XY/DP Ash level strategy again? Iwane and even Ufotable animators on board to animate it? Those gotta be good signs, this battle is gonna be a sight to behold!)
 
I wonder if Leon's battle will also get 3 episodes or Cynthia's meant to be the star attraction as part of their apology tour for not having it happen in 2010
 
The issue isn't Diantha herself, it's Leon. None of this is Diantha's fault.

To be clear, I love Leon in SwSh the games, he's my favorite game Champion thus far, but in the anime his character's execution has been pretty terrible. The writers don't seem to know how to differentiate between "unbeatable" and "invincible/untouchable". His status as the "unbeatable Champion" worked with respect to SwSh in the gameverse because that was something he held only in Galar, and what also made it clear he wasn't perfect was the existence of his rival Raihan, who was stated in-universe to be able to go toe-to-toe with Leon and actually come close to beating him. He's strong because he's a guy who's always learning from his battles. The games did a solid job at actually humanizing Leon in many ways.

But the anime just dropped the ball with him. Journeys seems to be juggling between wanting to be the Gen 8 anime and thus represent Galar and SwSh while also being a world tour multiregion celebration anime series for Pokemon, and as such Leon's character had to be adjusted accordingly...and they fumbled it bad. Leon's unbeatable status as Galar's greatest Champion was extended to him being the strongest Trainer in the entire world, and the writers basically wrote him to be a million times stronger than every single Champion. Like Cynthia is in the second spot, but the writers seem to want to make it clear that their version of Leon is far, far above even Cynthia. Like if you take the rest of the M8, the likes of Lance, Cynthia, Steven, and Diantha are all relative to each other in strength, same with Iris and Alain, but then they decided that to work with Leon's status as "unbeatable" that he should be leagues above even the veteran Champions who are in the M8.

And the execution of his battles to showcase his strength has been absolutely awful. They don't know how to write Leon being strong without making his battles being written as "Leon strong hype, Leon strong hype". A good way to humanize him would be to have him show some signs of struggling against his opponents, but no, he has to totally pulverize every last one of them. The only time he showed any times of a close fight is his first on-screen with Lance, and that was mitigated by it being a 1v1. Raihan got treated bad by this anime series because while he's still Leon's rival even in the animeverse he had no chance to show off his capability to go neck and neck with Leon because he was only shown in yet another pathetic 1v1. And then you have the likes of Flint and Alain, who in their originating series had some excellent showing and proved themselves to be great, powerful Trainers, and they get totally wrecked by Leon with minimal effort. Leon doesn't even use any sort of thought or strategy to win his battles: he does it just brute force without lifting a finger. The anime just doesn't succeed in making him compelling as a strong Champion at all, his battles have been half-baked and poorly thought out while being the most boring, soulless victories ever.

On the other hand, I can say that Diantha did a better job against Leon than any of his previous opponents, as she managed to take down two of his mons on-screen, more than any of his past opponents thus far, and managed to put up a fight against G-Max Charizard that left Leon impressed, but her battle here was really another example of the glaring issue of how Leon has been handled in the anime.

I am still rooting for Ash to win against Leon when he makes it to him, and I hope they stop with the Leon strong, Leon strong shit and actually make Ash vs. Leon a compelling and exciting battle like Ash vs. Cynthia is seemingly setting itself up to be. (Counter Shield and Rock Tomb Climb in the Ash vs. Cynthia battle, ie XY/DP Ash level strategy again? Iwane and even Ufotable animators on board to animate it? Those gotta be good signs, this battle is gonna be a sight to behold!)
Relatively speaking, Diantha did about as well as Alain did against Leon. Alain was able to beat 1 of Leon's Pokemon in a 3v3 while Diantha beat 2 in a 6v6 battle. Although, if we look at the optics of the battle in general, I'd actually argue Alain was much closer to winning than Diantha was since he and Leon were tied before Leon sent out Charizard (+ Leon had already burned his DMax), whereas Diantha was at a severe disadvantage (she was down to her last mon and Leon had yet to use his DMax). But regardless, I am also not a fan of how OP Leon is in the anime, as I expressed in the other thread.

I actually kind of liked this episode, but it did feel like it was trying to set up the Garchomp vs Lucario matchup by showing the parallels between Garchomp and Lucario hatching from eggs. Not a bad thing, mind you, but just something I noticed. Seeing Cynthia's training routine w/ Chomp was also cool

Even though Diantha got absolutely wrecked off screen, I did like the portion of the battle we did see. Diantha's strategy of manipulating the GMax Wildfire was pretty cool. She simultaneously got rid of the effect and forced Leon to waste his other Max moves to get rid of the GMax wildfire. Its too bad that the last GMax Wildfire still broke through.

I am excited for the next few episodes. Its been a long time since we have had a multiple episode, 6v6 battle (I think the last one was Ash vs Kukui). I wasn't aware that animators from other studios like Ufotable were gonna help work on these episodes. Lets hope that their animation talents are put to good use.

EDIT: So I missed this when watching the episode the first time but Leon's Rillaboom swept 4 of Diantha's Pokemon WTF? Why is Leon's side Pokemon this strong? In round one it got knocked out pretty easily.
 
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ScraftyIsTheBest

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Leon is the new Tobias
Cynthia is the new Paul.

Cynthia vs Ash : 3 episodes like Paul, and then Leon will overpower Ash like Tobias did
I'm going to be honest, I...

I really don't think they're gonna do an entire season of buildup just to have Ash get completely and utterly pulverized by Leon like that. Ash vs. Leon is supposed to be the big finale of JN/PM19 and what this entire generation's anime series has been building up towards, and if Ash fails to defeat Leon, especially if Ash just gets completely destroyed by Leon without putting so much as a dent into Leon's team while the latter just effortlessly crushes him, then these three years of buildup and this entire anime season would effectively be a complete waste of time.

The thing with Tobias is that he was not ever meant to be an important character or an obstacle for Ash to overcome. He wasn't even a proper character either. He was little more than a plot device wearing the skin of the character whose sole purpose in the DP series was to keep Ash from winning the entire Sinnoh League. The narrative finale of DP for Ash, for all intents and purposes, was Ash vs. Paul. That was the big finale battle and the grand climax of Ash's Sinnoh journey, and one they spent four years, with an entire anime season, building up towards, over 100 episodes of a bitter rivalry between Ash and Paul, a clash of their ideals and attitudes towards training Pokemon, all coming to a head with their ultimate finale battle at the Sinnoh League. And the end result was that Ash finally won. He defeated Paul, who was his greatest rival yet, finally ending their bitter rivalry. Tobias showed up last minute, and there was no buildup to him and Ash having an important battle. The writers wanted Ash to defeat Paul, thus finally coming out on top after 100+ episodes of a bitter rivalry, but they didn't want Ash to win the whole Sinnoh League, so they created a half-assed plot device in the form of Tobias so they could find a way to quickly eliminate him from the League to prevent him from coming out as the League Winner.

That is not the case with Leon. Ash's goal in this series is that he wants to reach Leon in the World Coronation series and he wants to be the first Trainer in the world to defeat Leon. They've spent three years, an entire anime season, building up towards Ash vs. Leon.

And if you still have serious doubts about Ash being able to put up a close fight against Leon, we can look back at the Kalos League and more specifically, Alain. Alain pulverized most of his opponents before Ash with mostly just his Charizard and Metagross, but then come their actual battle and Ash managed to put up a damn close fight, Ash even managed to take down Metagross with ease. It was a battle down to the wire, it ended down to their very last Pokemon for both sides, with Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Charizard X. Yes, Ash lost, but it was a narrow defeat as Alain's Charizard only barely managed to stay standing. And there was a narrative purpose for this: it worked narratively because the Kalos League was building up towards the Team Flare villain arc, with Alain and Ash's character arcs and relationship reaching the finale in the collective effort to defeat Lysandre and Team Flare. Same with Ash-Greninja. It was Alain's battle that led Greninja to finally master its Ash-Greninja form, and then we see its true power in full in the battle against Team Flare. Say what you will about the outcome here, but the Team Flare arc was XYZ's proper narrative finale and that ended with Ash and Alain's character arcs concluding and them prevailing against the big bad.

Given the actual way Ash vs. Alain went comparatively, there's no reason Ash can't put up a close fight against Leon narratively, and more importantly, Ash vs. Leon is the narrative finale of Journeys/PM19 for all intents and purposes. This has to be a good battle: intense, action-packed, and down to the last mon for the both of them. If it ends up with Ash getting completely and utterly overpowered then there's no point. That insinuates all the hard work Ash put in to reach Leon was a waste of time, his goal, his dream to battle and defeat Leon, never had any chance of happening and that his goal was hopelessly idealistic, and it gives a bad message to children watching the show. It's telling them that they shouldn't pursue their dreams, that they shouldn't work hard towards their dreams and goals no matter how impossible it may seem, that their hopes, goals, dreams are impossible to reach, and they should just give up. Do you think that's a good message to convey to the young elementary school children who are the target audience of this show? No. Moreover, as I said, they've been building up to Ash vs. Leon for nearly three years. Why spent all that time building up to something if it's going to end up a horrifically disappointing finale?

Now you may think that Leon overpowering Diantha like this basically crushes any hope of Ash winning, but frankly, if Ash gets overpowered this badly himself, that means he failed to heed the wake-up call he got from this battle. Say what you will about the execution of Leon vs. Diantha, I'm also miffed that Diantha got crushed this badly and think the execution of Leon's character has been pretty bad, but this battle had a narrative plot purpose. You know how Ash saw the scoreboard, Leon only losing one Pokemon while Diantha lost four, and how he reacted in complete and utter shock? How he commented during the remainder of the battle "I've never seen Diantha get so overpowered like this.."? This battle was a big wake-up call for Ash. This was a big warning sign to him of just how powerful Leon is. That this guy is a big obstacle for Ash to overcome, and that he's really gonna have to pull everything he's got and really come up with a way to prevail against such a massively powerful Trainer like Leon. This is the guy he has been working hard throughout this entire series in hopes of defeating him.

This is his big wake-up call. This means Ash vs. Leon is being built up to be an important, high-tension match, with Ash being the underdog of the Masters 8 up against Leon, the unbeatable Champion, the world's greatest Trainer of all time. And it's the underdog's job to come out on top and win. Leon vs. Diantha is Ash, the Masters 8's underdog and rising star, getting a big wake-up call that he has to pull everything he's got in order to take on this massive obstacle of a challenge and prevail. He has to pull out everything he's got, all the special training he went through and the powers his Pokemon have unleashed through training with people like Iris and Clemont and even his old mons like Greninja and Infernape, all of that has to be unleashed in full against Leon. His biggest strength is his unpredictability and his ability to think on the spot, combined with the bonds he has with his Pokemon, and he really needs to pull that off to prevail against Leon, who is a master of preparation. As messy as the execution is, Leon vs. Diantha's outcome raises the stakes for Ash, so now for Ash vs. Leon, which is the big finale that Journeys/PM19 has been building up towards, the battle's stakes are much higher on Ash's end.

Moreover, Leon's character is that he's really waiting for someone to finally give him a proper challenge, and he thinks Ash is that one who can do so. The fact that he's so strong and has never lost has scared him, and has him worried that he's reached his peak, but the Eternatus incident proved to him that there will be even stronger opponents than him for Leon to challenge, and that excites him. This is setting up for Ash and Leon's battle to be high-tension. It has to be a close match. It has to keep both Ash and Leon on their feet and high in tension, and Ash has to give Leon the best battle he's ever had. It has to be a close 6v6, down to the last mon, for the sake of Leon's character.

Making Ash vs. Leon like the Tobias battle, let alone Ash losing at all, would be utterly insulting to both Leon's character and Ash's arc and all the work and buildup he's had towards this battle. Ash losing would also be terrible, because unlike the Kalos League, where that at least had narrative purpose as it was building up towards the next step of Alain's character arc, the Team Flare showdown, this has no excuses. Ash vs. Leon is the narrative finale of JN, the conclusion to both of their arcs in this series, and the grand finale. To make this any less than a 3 episode 6v6 would make this entire generation's season a waste of time, an insult to all the characters involved, and would make this go down in history as the most disappointing finale of all time. I would not accept anything less than a close, high tension, 6v6 battle, and I am still rooting against all odds for Ash to win this.
 
ScraftyIsTheBest I hope you're right, but if the anime told me something, it's that I'm always disappointed :D Even the Kalos League finale wasn't so important (3v3), the real match for Ash was against Professor Kukui ! And it lasts almost 4 episodes. So that's why I think the real game is Cynthia vs Ash ! I hope I'm wrong
 
Speaking of climaxes, I presume that Goh's final mission will be wedged between Semifinals and Finals since it makes way more sense to end on Ash vs Leon (regardless of win or lose) than Goh chasing Regigigas

We got titles up through the 16th. And I presume they want to premiere the new anime with the games.
So 8 to 9 episodes left, depending on if they want to premiere the new season on the 18th (few days prior) or the 25th (few days after)

Feels pretty easy to fit in ~3 episodes for Goh followed by ~3 for Ash vs Leon and then ~2 for a wrap up and set up for the next saga.
 
I'm going to be honest, I...

I really don't think they're gonna do an entire season of buildup just to have Ash get completely and utterly pulverized by Leon like that. Ash vs. Leon is supposed to be the big finale of JN/PM19 and what this entire generation's anime series has been building up towards, and if Ash fails to defeat Leon, especially if Ash just gets completely destroyed by Leon without putting so much as a dent into Leon's team while the latter just effortlessly crushes him, then these three years of buildup and this entire anime season would effectively be a complete waste of time.

The thing with Tobias is that he was not ever meant to be an important character or an obstacle for Ash to overcome. He wasn't even a proper character either. He was little more than a plot device wearing the skin of the character whose sole purpose in the DP series was to keep Ash from winning the entire Sinnoh League. The narrative finale of DP for Ash, for all intents and purposes, was Ash vs. Paul. That was the big finale battle and the grand climax of Ash's Sinnoh journey, and one they spent four years, with an entire anime season, building up towards, over 100 episodes of a bitter rivalry between Ash and Paul, a clash of their ideals and attitudes towards training Pokemon, all coming to a head with their ultimate finale battle at the Sinnoh League. And the end result was that Ash finally won. He defeated Paul, who was his greatest rival yet, finally ending their bitter rivalry. Tobias showed up last minute, and there was no buildup to him and Ash having an important battle. The writers wanted Ash to defeat Paul, thus finally coming out on top after 100+ episodes of a bitter rivalry, but they didn't want Ash to win the whole Sinnoh League, so they created a half-assed plot device in the form of Tobias so they could find a way to quickly eliminate him from the League to prevent him from coming out as the League Winner.

That is not the case with Leon. Ash's goal in this series is that he wants to reach Leon in the World Coronation series and he wants to be the first Trainer in the world to defeat Leon. They've spent three years, an entire anime season, building up towards Ash vs. Leon.

And if you still have serious doubts about Ash being able to put up a close fight against Leon, we can look back at the Kalos League and more specifically, Alain. Alain pulverized most of his opponents before Ash with mostly just his Charizard and Metagross, but then come their actual battle and Ash managed to put up a damn close fight, Ash even managed to take down Metagross with ease. It was a battle down to the wire, it ended down to their very last Pokemon for both sides, with Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Charizard X. Yes, Ash lost, but it was a narrow defeat as Alain's Charizard only barely managed to stay standing. And there was a narrative purpose for this: it worked narratively because the Kalos League was building up towards the Team Flare villain arc, with Alain and Ash's character arcs and relationship reaching the finale in the collective effort to defeat Lysandre and Team Flare. Same with Ash-Greninja. It was Alain's battle that led Greninja to finally master its Ash-Greninja form, and then we see its true power in full in the battle against Team Flare. Say what you will about the outcome here, but the Team Flare arc was XYZ's proper narrative finale and that ended with Ash and Alain's character arcs concluding and them prevailing against the big bad.

Given the actual way Ash vs. Alain went comparatively, there's no reason Ash can't put up a close fight against Leon narratively, and more importantly, Ash vs. Leon is the narrative finale of Journeys/PM19 for all intents and purposes. This has to be a good battle: intense, action-packed, and down to the last mon for the both of them. If it ends up with Ash getting completely and utterly overpowered then there's no point. That insinuates all the hard work Ash put in to reach Leon was a waste of time, his goal, his dream to battle and defeat Leon, never had any chance of happening and that his goal was hopelessly idealistic, and it gives a bad message to children watching the show. It's telling them that they shouldn't pursue their dreams, that they shouldn't work hard towards their dreams and goals no matter how impossible it may seem, that their hopes, goals, dreams are impossible to reach, and they should just give up. Do you think that's a good message to convey to the young elementary school children who are the target audience of this show? No. Moreover, as I said, they've been building up to Ash vs. Leon for nearly three years. Why spent all that time building up to something if it's going to end up a horrifically disappointing finale?

Now you may think that Leon overpowering Diantha like this basically crushes any hope of Ash winning, but frankly, if Ash gets overpowered this badly himself, that means he failed to heed the wake-up call he got from this battle. Say what you will about the execution of Leon vs. Diantha, I'm also miffed that Diantha got crushed this badly and think the execution of Leon's character has been pretty bad, but this battle had a narrative plot purpose. You know how Ash saw the scoreboard, Leon only losing one Pokemon while Diantha lost four, and how he reacted in complete and utter shock? How he commented during the remainder of the battle "I've never seen Diantha get so overpowered like this.."? This battle was a big wake-up call for Ash. This was a big warning sign to him of just how powerful Leon is. That this guy is a big obstacle for Ash to overcome, and that he's really gonna have to pull everything he's got and really come up with a way to prevail against such a massively powerful Trainer like Leon. This is the guy he has been working hard throughout this entire series in hopes of defeating him.

This is his big wake-up call. This means Ash vs. Leon is being built up to be an important, high-tension match, with Ash being the underdog of the Masters 8 up against Leon, the unbeatable Champion, the world's greatest Trainer of all time. And it's the underdog's job to come out on top and win. Leon vs. Diantha is Ash, the Masters 8's underdog and rising star, getting a big wake-up call that he has to pull everything he's got in order to take on this massive obstacle of a challenge and prevail. He has to pull out everything he's got, all the special training he went through and the powers his Pokemon have unleashed through training with people like Iris and Clemont and even his old mons like Greninja and Infernape, all of that has to be unleashed in full against Leon. His biggest strength is his unpredictability and his ability to think on the spot, combined with the bonds he has with his Pokemon, and he really needs to pull that off to prevail against Leon, who is a master of preparation. As messy as the execution is, Leon vs. Diantha's outcome raises the stakes for Ash, so now for Ash vs. Leon, which is the big finale that Journeys/PM19 has been building up towards, the battle's stakes are much higher on Ash's end.

Moreover, Leon's character is that he's really waiting for someone to finally give him a proper challenge, and he thinks Ash is that one who can do so. The fact that he's so strong and has never lost has scared him, and has him worried that he's reached his peak, but the Eternatus incident proved to him that there will be even stronger opponents than him for Leon to challenge, and that excites him. This is setting up for Ash and Leon's battle to be high-tension. It has to be a close match. It has to keep both Ash and Leon on their feet and high in tension, and Ash has to give Leon the best battle he's ever had. It has to be a close 6v6, down to the last mon, for the sake of Leon's character.

Making Ash vs. Leon like the Tobias battle, let alone Ash losing at all, would be utterly insulting to both Leon's character and Ash's arc and all the work and buildup he's had towards this battle. Ash losing would also be terrible, because unlike the Kalos League, where that at least had narrative purpose as it was building up towards the next step of Alain's character arc, the Team Flare showdown, this has no excuses. Ash vs. Leon is the narrative finale of JN, the conclusion to both of their arcs in this series, and the grand finale. To make this any less than a 3 episode 6v6 would make this entire generation's season a waste of time, an insult to all the characters involved, and would make this go down in history as the most disappointing finale of all time. I would not accept anything less than a close, high tension, 6v6 battle, and I am still rooting against all odds for Ash to win this.
On the Tobias point, I'm still going to protest the use of him as a "get rid of Ash" plot device as lazy because 2 regions ago, Harrison played the same role sufficiently, eliminating Ash from Top 8 after he'd had his Full Battle with Gary, and that battle was still allowed to come down to the wire. It continues to be emblematic of the writers' stubborn refusal to let Ash win a League even when it would not be in his character past the Indigo League to slow down or rest on his Laurels over winning a tournament, despite Sinnoh also putting such heavy emphasis on Cynthia and the Elite Four as a challenge beyond that for the Sinnoh League winner alone, much less on a world scale.

I feel like even under the "wake-up call" interpretation, giving these effortless victories to Leon is damning the conclusion before it's even reached, because frankly I just do not believe that anyone, much less Ash, can beat anime Leon at this point with anything besides the hand of the writer. Consider that almost everyone agrees that Ash beating Leon after 100+ episodes of build up is the obvious and natural conclusion to a character arc; simultaneously, a significant number of viewers are very nonchalant in entertaining the idea that Ash will lose to Leon anyway, because despite the story being structured that way, Leon's battling trumps their suspension of disbelief or faith in even a basic story trope. This isn't shaping up to be a battle of tactics and counter-teaming like you might project onto PVP or VGC tournaments, this is a bunch of players showing up to battle and one guy's team is 30 levels above everyone else's, numerically that advantage isn't possible for smart play alone to get over here.

The Eternatus point would be neat for Leon's concerns that he's peaked, but then when he goes on to steamroll several of the other "best" trainers like this, the idea rings hollow, especially to me because I'm reminded of Eternatus winning more from cheating Leon (or any opponent) out of access to a major battle strategy in Dyna/Gigantamax. In fact, in that regard Eternatus vs Leon is a similar issue to Leon vs everyone else: Eternatus isn't smarter or tricky to take on, it simply brute forces its way past Leon and then was defeated because the writing said so (i.e. Zacian and Zamazenta showing up and doing most of the battle work in both the Games and the Anime).

To go back to Tobias, I'd almost argue Leon's even more of a "f*ck it" writing moment, because at least with Tobias, they pulled Legendary Pokemon out of their asses thin air as an explanation for his abnormal challenge. Him having Darkrai and Latios was a different can of worms, but there's at least precedent in the anime for Legendary Pokemon being this kind of team sweeping power above everyone else. Leon, by comparison, is doing this with his regular Pokemon who we're simply supposed to accept as strong because. It's not even like Ash's Charizard for example, who was the only Pokemon he tended to pull this level of sweep with (Beating 3 of Gary's Pokemon at the Silver conference, 2 holding an advantage even if the 3rd was Scizor); Leon swept most of Diantha's team using his Rillaboom, and his Charizard at base took out 2/3 of Alain's team with little effort (Ash's Charizard still had to work for its win against half of Gary's team). So it's not even a matter of Leon being somewhat strong and Charizard being his Ace at the end, we just have to take his entire team to be on the level of Orange Island Drake's Dragonite (a Pokemon the writers were on record as giving more moves and bending rules for to depict like an OP Final Boss) even when he's up against literally the strongest competition he could find.

I ranted a bit repetitively above, but I think it bears repeating since the writers are doing this for the second time now. Somehow Leon's Tournament battles are less compelling and contributing less to his rival-goal status than his 1v1 against Raihan, even though these battles are supposed to lead into Ash's battle with him. Frankly at this point I consider Cynthia the final boss because Leon feels more like the Superboss you're designed to lose to unless you break the battle system in half rather than playing by its rules. At this point if Ash loses, it's unsatisfying to me because we wasted 120+ episodes getting here, while if Ash wins, it's unsatisfying to me because it doesn't feel like he got strong enough to beat what we're shown. There is no natural progression to whatever result we can get, it is literally just what the writers want to happen at this point, and seeing the strings that blatantly ruins the climax.
 
Based on all of the excellent points regarding inconsistent writing and character development made by other users, does anyone think there's a chance that the battle between Ash and Leon will result in a tie? I don't want to get too into it due to limited time, but having loosely followed the plot and then seeing how the anime has set up Leon as an unwinnable matchup, I feel that the best we're going to get is a dissatisfying loss (what was the point of all this progression and buildup?) or a tie, which I feel might help show Ash's growth but also stay true to how absolutely, "unbeatable" Leon is. Plus, it leaves room for a later match that can be determined by a 1 vs. 1, or Leon showing up in the future.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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The thing with Leon is that for all the hype and prop-up he gets his character in every incarnation of his is still ultimately made to be defeated by the protagonist, which in this case, that would be Ash. They are establishing a dichotomy between Ash being the underdog rising star and Leon being the long time undefeated Champion who Ash is aiming to surpass, and it's the underdog's job to come out on top in the end. Plus, Gen 8 is coming to an end and Galar is coming to a close, there would be less reason to bring Leon back in the future especially since Gen 9 will focus on new things and Leon will have less of a reason to appear in the future after SwSh is ultimately pushed away from the center of attention to give all of the spotlight to SV which will also have a new cast of characters for the anime as well.

Journeys/PM19 just has a prevailing of issue of "tell, don't show" a lot of the time. Ash's current Journeys team, for what it's worth, is in-universe apparently an incredibly powerful, Champion level team, and his strongest roster of Pokemon yet, but their on-screen development has been minimal and most of it has been in off-screen land more often than not. The anime team has also stated in interviews that they're intending to portray Ash himself as becoming increasingly unbeatable with his own journey in this series, which would ultimately allow him to come to a head with Leon and make his team go toe-to-toe with Leon.

It seems the main attempts to make Ash seem that he can make it to Leon and go toe-to-toe would be the way they pitted Ash's matches in the Masters Tournament relative to Leon, especially what rank their respective opponents are. Leon is explicitly going up against two of the lower-ranked members of the Masters 8: Alain, who is Rank 6, and Diantha, who is Rank 5. The former is a League Winner, the only one who isn't a proper Champion, while the latter is a Champion who while strong, is a battler as a secondary thing with her career as an actress being her primary thing.

Meanwhile you have Ash's three stepping stone opponents to reach Leon, in which case they explicitly chose the three opponents who in some form or another are the Trainers who are closest in strength to Leon.

- His entry ticket opponent into the Master Class was Raihan, who is Leon's rival and the only person in Galar who can even come close to actually defeating Leon
- His quarterfinals opponent is Steven, who is Rank 3 of the Master Class and thus the third most powerful Trainer
- His semifinals opponent is Cynthia, who is Rank 2 of the Master Class and thus the second most powerful Trainer

This seems to be their way to building Ash up to reaching and possibly beating Leon, to have him overcome and defeat the people who are closest in strength to Leon. Leon's rival, and the third and second strongest Trainers in the lineup. In the recap clip show a few weeks ago, Cynthia in particular is noted to be the closest person in strength to Leon, and it's implied the two are in fact very close in power level and could easily go neck and neck with each other.

The problem is that it's not totally believable for people to totally have a clear idea that Cynthia and Leon are similar in power level, because within the scope of this series, we've seen far, far less of Cynthia in action compared to Leon: Cynthia only had one proper opponent which was Iris in a 3v3, in which she did manage to prove herself to be an incredibly formidable opponent, but that's still less compared to the showings they gave to Leon. We have also never seen Cynthia and Leon actually battle it out with each other to get an idea of the actual power difference (or lack thereof) between them.

Still though: they've made the strength rankings of the Masters 8 abundantly clear, and the Top 6 in particular are pretty intentionally placed where they are in the ranks. Leon goes up against the lower end of that stock, aka Alain (6) and Diantha (5), while Ash gets into the M8 through Leon's rival and then his two opponents before Leon are Steven (3) and Cynthia (2). They're trying to give off the impression that if Ash can overcome the closest second and third to Leon in strength, ie Steven and Cynthia, then he stands a genuine chance against Leon, and that the difference between those three and the ones below them is substantial enough.

So much so that the idea of Ash being able to go toe-to-toe with Leon is still within scope since Leon's power is mostly against the two who are very notably lower in the M8 chart than him. If Leon gave an overwhelming sweep against Cynthia or Steven then the actual bar of power for him would be even higher in this context: otherwise it's been stated/implied that Cynthia and Leon are almost neck-and-neck in terms of strength: that said, this series hasn't done a good enough job at, y'know, actually showing that. Ash being able to overcome the two people who are closest in strength to Leon himself while Leon pulverizes people who are explicitly weaker in strength than Ash's own stepping stone opponents is the approach they seem to be going for: how effective the execution of this intention is, well, is entirely in the eyes of the beholder.

If people do find Ash's potential victory against Leon, assuming he wins, to ultimately be unsatisfying, then that's more a collective issue of Journeys/PM19's consistent reliance on a "tell, don't show" approach that seeps into its portrayals in several ways.
 
The problem with the writers invoking the ranks in order to reconcile the power progression and Leon's sweeping is that the ranks, from what context we have, don't even strictly seem to correspond to their actual power relative to each other, just to their win rate against opponents they don't necessarily share. For one thing, previous ranks they mostly battle members within their own rank until they have a win rate to move up a class, at which point I guess Ultra Class players who have been losing drop to Great to make room for them? That tracks for most of the ranks until the End, though Ultra Class doesn't have battles very frequently since they have to book in advance and they make for televised events.

Then, Ash gets into the Masters 8 by defeating Raihan as the then-current #8, but then how do the other members reach higher ranks? Do they just battle each other for the hell of it until the final tournament? Are they randomly seeded based on previous years and just wait for one or two newbies to compete and potentially dethrone them? Do they not actually dictate the "Masters 8" for a while and just have people tied for 9 for a while or something? There are other logistical questions there, like what happens if someone tries to book a battle against #9 (Ash) and then Ash moves up to #8 against Raihan? Are they just SoL on getting their shot because they can't book against #9 until that resolves (the scheduling implies time and a deadline is obviously a factor)?

A vague ranking system like this works fine for the purposes of just showing one guy's advancement like Ash, with everyone else jut having their number exist to milestone his progress moreso than track their own advancement. That said, it also means the numbers and rankings didn't think through rules enough for the numbers to really represent peoples' strengths compared to their placement (especially given the upper ranks require scheduling and hit a point of outright rank swapping rather than something like a tracked score like Ladder or an Online Ranked Battle community.

tl;dr The Number Rankings in Masters' 8 don't feel like they mean much relative to each other if we're trying to compare strengths, doubly so with the Elimination Tournament format for them vs the ranking system the rest play by.
 
Time for some disorganized ramblings about this tournament arc.
What if the Masters 8 was a ranking system based on recent battle results and made by a questionable battling world governing body, rather than a hard power system?

I don't like the idea of "This SSS-Rank character can't ever be defeated by this S-Rank character, ever, no matter the strategy." Not when the ranks are on paper close together. And especially not in sports series, where power levels shouldn't be too far apart.

Is it fair to call this Masters 8 Arc a sports series? I think it makes sense.
The games may allow overleveling to stomp opponents with numbers alone, but I don't think levels are a thing in the anime. Even if Leon is an unparalleled battle genius since he was 10 who has found the best training regiment for Charizard and the rest, he isn't literally invincible (on paper) unless his source of power is a god of certain victory or something, it is reasonable to think he should have a few loses under his belt, because in sports, great teams can have a bad day and lose against theoretically worse teams.

Also, people love underdogs, and in fiction, underdogs are protagonists. But is Journeys!Ash an underdog? He has lost some battles even as late as this series, but apparently he's also at his strongest in this series, so while Leon is the Top Dog according to what we know about him, Ash still has a decent chance to defeat him because:
  1. Ash is the protagonist.
  2. The main character winning the tournament is satisfying.
  3. People used to make fun of Ash because of his tournament loses.
ScraftyIsTheBest brings up something interesting: the "showing" of a Trainer's strength. This is how Bulbapedia summed up Leon's rise to power:
Bulbapedia said:
On his journey, Leon went through the Pokémon League of Galar undefeated, and eventually reached the top spot among the Masters Eight of the World Coronation Series.
That's it. That's how he became the world's number 1 Trainer. One sentence.
(I guess his friendship with Charizard and the motivation to go on a Pokémon Journey helped, but considering his immense on-screen power, I expected a little more.)
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Onto the weekly Masters Tournament report for Journeys, we now begin Ash's penultimate showdown for Pokemon 2019, aka Journeys, and the biggest obstacle he faces before his ultimate showdown, Ash vs. Leon. We now begin the first part of the showdown between Ash and Cynthia!

Before the match starts, we notably see a conversation between Cynthia and Diantha as the latter returns to the waiting room and the former enters the battlefield. Diantha notes she'll be rooting for Cynthia to eventually defeat Leon (though we all know that's Ash's job here lol), but then Cynthia makes a surprising claim: that she intends to retire from battling after the tournament. What could this possibly entail?

The first part of the match has Cynthia taking a heavy lead in many ways. The match begins with Spiritomb, while Ash leads with Dragonite. Spiritomb proves itself to be an incredibly formidable opponent not through sheer power, but through cunning tactics, as it manages to get quick damage in with Sucker Punch to ambush Dragonite before it fires a Draco Meteor, which Spiritomb also manages to endure well. Dragonite tries to attack with Dragon Claw, but then Spiritomb proceeds to put Dragonite to sleep to keep it from attacking. Dragonite doesn't wake up, and Spiritomb proceeds to defeat Dragonite while its asleep with repeated Dream Eaters, draining away at its stamina until it ultimately goes down.

Next up, Cynthia switches out Spiritomb, and sends in Roserade. Ash sends in Gengar. The two clash between Shadow Ball and Bullet Seed, the latter of which Gengar resists, and then do a second clash of attacks with Will-O-Wisp and Leaf Storm. Both attacks hit, and Roserade suffers from burn damage immediately afterwards. Cynthia then recalls Roserade...and sends in Spiritomb once again! Gengar manages to do heavy damage to Spiritomb with Dazzling Gleam, but not before Spiritomb gets a quick ambush attack with Sucker Punch. Gengar barely manages to get up...but despite its best efforts, it faints and is unable to battle.

Cynthia switches out Spiritomb once again, and this time she sends in Togekiss. Ash sends in his iconic Pikachu to gain the upper hand. Pikachu spams Thunderbolt, but Togekiss dodges all of its attempts and hits Pikachu with an Air Slash: thanks to Serene Grace increasing the odds, however, Pikachu flinches, leaving it open to get struck by a Zen Headbutt. Cynthia switches out Togekiss, and then sends in Gastrodon. Despite the type disadvantage, however, Pikachu manages to gain the upper hand by using a classic tactic from XY: Rock Tomb Climb, which he uses to circumvent Earth Power by jumping on and across the raised pieces of ground to gain momentum. Gastrodon responds by using Stone Edge, but in classic Ash fasion, Ash proceeds to use Iron Tail to cut one of the stones in two, then uses it to fling two pieces straight into Gastrodon's mouth, leaving it to sponge the impact but forced to carry the heavy weight of it. Pikachu then charges in with a Quick Attack, blowing the stones to pieces and causing heavy force impact to Gastrodon, ultimately knocking it out, thus securing Ash's first KO against Cynthia.

Cynthia then spends out Spiritomb once again. Spiritomb uses Hypnosis, but in a classic DP throwback, Pikachu spins around and unleashes a Counter Shield Thunderbolt, deflecting the Hypnosis and also hitting Spiritomb for major damage! (Hey Ash, you owe Dawn royalties for that. Her ingenuity carried you in Sinnoh). He then proceeds to bind Spiritomb with Electroweb and do more damage to it, and then finishes it off with Iron Tail, knocking it out. However, Spiritomb used Destiny Bond before going down, which in turn causes Pikachu to faint, leading to a mutual knockout.

That's all for now, and so far Cynthia is down two with four mons remaining, while Ash has three mons down, three remaining. Cynthia has commanded a heavy lead in the battle thus far and has proven herself to be a serious threat...will Ash be able to turn the tides around and come out victorious? The next two weeks will determine that...so stay tuned!
 
The Gen 1 nostalgia bait duo left the side down.

To borrow a phrase from Pokemopolis, "Nintendo will not be pleased."

On that note, I miss that site. How I wish they didn't stop episode guides during XY. Their recaps were hilarious.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Now today, we continue onto the weekly Masters Tournament report for Journeys. Today, we have the second part of Ash and Cynthia's semifinals showdown!

After the dual knockout of Pikachu and Spiritomb in last week's episode, the battle continues, with Ash sending out Dracovish, and Cynthia sending out her iconic ace, her almighty Garchomp! Dracovish charges in with Ice Fang to deal double super effective damage, but Garchomp manages to dodge and attack Dracovish with a super effective Dragon Claw. Garchomp then pulls another one of Cynthia's tactical approahces: Stealth Rock, in order to create an entry hazard every time Ash switches a Pokemon into the battlefield.

Cynthia then switches Garchomp, and switches to Roserade. To Ash's surprise, Roserade's ability is Natural Cure, meaning it was cured from the burn that Gengar inflicted on it earlier. Dracovish goes in for a Fishious Rend, but Roserade manages to get a quick hit in with Poison Jab, while Dracovish lands an Ice Fang, creating a heavy clash. Unfortunately for Dracovish, it ended up getting poisoned. Roserade fires a Leaf Storm, while Dracovish charges through it with Dragon Rush and lands a powerful blow, knocking Roserade out!

Dracovish ends up suffering continual damage from the poison, and Ash tries to switch it out, but Dracovish dodges, determined to keep fighting. Cynthia sends in Milotic, and Milotic fires a Disarming Voice: while Dracovish tries to power through with Dragon Rush, it gets overpowered this time. Milotic then charges in and binds Dracovish, then uses Iron Head up close: but this time, Dracovish also retaliates with Fishious Rend, and the two attacks collide. While Milotic sustains damage, Dracovish ultimately falls, leaving Ash with two Pokemon left.

Ash sends in Sirfetch'd, but Sirfetch'd is immediately treated to Stealth Rock damage. However, Ash comes up with a plan: he has Sirfetch'd use Brutal Swing, throwing its rapidly spinning shield around the battlefield to destroy all of the Stealth Rock pebbles, removing the hazard from the field! Milotic fires a Hydro Pump, but Sirfetch'd dodges and charges in with a flurry of Fury Cutters to deal substantial damage. Milotic attacks with Disarming Voice, but Sirfetch'd charges through with Meteor Assault, knocking Milotic out.

Next up, Cynthia sends in Garchomp. Garchomp fires a Scale Shot, which Sirfetch'd powers through with Fury Cutter, and then Garchomp retaliates with Dragon Claw. Sirfetch'd gets overpowered in the clash, but uses Detect to avoid getting hit with a second Dragon Claw. Garchomp then unleashes Draco Meteor, while Sirfetch'd charges with Meteor Assault, and both attacks land. Despite the close outcome, Garchomp barely manages to stay standing despite stumbling, while Sirfetch'd faints standing up.

Cynthia switches Garchomp out, and then sends in Togekiss. Ash sends in his final Pokemon, Lucario. Notably, Goh's Cinderace comes out in the stands to cheer its buddy on. Togekiss unleashes Air Slash, but Lucario powers through with Bullet Punch, charging in close in doing so, while pummeling Togekiss with a flurry of Bullet Punches. Lucario prepares to fire an Aura Sphere, but Togekiss uses another flurry of Air Slashes, causing Lucario to flinch thanks to Serene Grace increasing the chance. Togekiss fires another flurry of Air Slashes, but Lucario powers through with a flurry of Bullet Punches yet again.

Cynthia is impressed...but then she pulls a surprise! Instead of using Mega Garchomp like she used against Iris, she reveals that she can use Dynamax too! She proceeds to Dynamax her Togekiss, while Ash prepares his Mega Glove to Mega Evolve Lucario.

And so, that's it for this part of Ash vs. Cynthia, the final part will conclude next week. With today's part, both Ash and Cynthia have two more mons defeated, leaving Ash with just his Lucario and Cynthia with her Togekiss and her heavily weakened Garchomp. Next week's showdown will begin with the grand power-up showdown: Dynamax Togekiss vs. Mega Lucario, and of course the latter still has Garchomp to deal with too! How will things pan out for Ash and Lucario? Will their strong bond and power be enough to prevail against both Togekiss and Garchomp? And how will Ash ultimately come out on top and earn a place in the finals to face Leon? Stay tuned for next week!
 

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