ORAS OU HexGar Smash feat. Dragalge (peaked 1507)

Hey Smogon!

Gengar was my favourite pokemon waaay back when in pokemon Red, he’s also a really versatile and cool mon so I wanted to build a team around him. The overall goal of this team is to cripple the opponent early on with status in the form of Toxic spikes / thunder wave / wil-o-wisp to wear them down / provide speed control, which then powers up Gengar’s hex to monstrous drawback-free-draco-meteor levels for punching holes or cleaning. I’ve been playing showdown since around the start of the year but due to being monumentally busy I don’t get much time at all to practice - as such I don’t think I’m the best battler and I still have lots to learn, but this is by far my most successful team yet and the first one I’ve been able to break 1500 with. It’s also IMO really fun to use, so I’m hoping that with a bit of advice I can take it further!

Proof of Peak
1507.png


Teambuilding Process
I’ve been messing around with this team for several weeks and made a ton of changes along the way, so I can’t remember the exact process (at various points I’ve had Mega Altaria, Mega Pinsir, Mega Heracross, Scolipede, Talonflame, and Feraligatr all making an appearance, for example). But here’s the basic thought process behind each of the current lineup:


Started with Gengar obviously, who can burn things and nuke things, and is just a really cool mon :)


Toxic spikes seemed like an obvious choice to partner with HexGar to easily spread status to complement hex without wasting turns later. I chose Dragalgae because in addition to the toxic spikes utility he can also nuke things with STABs and can tank special hits.


Toxic spikes is fine but they are easily removed, so I wanted a phaser to help spread the poison around the opposing team before the spikes can get removed. Also needed a stealth rocker to damage the flying types unaffected by spikes. Tankchomp fit the bill perfectly, easily providing utility and wearing down teams with SR/dragon tail/rough skin, plus bonus electric immunity and decent offensive presence.


My team was quite hazard-centered by this point so I added a Bisharp to discourage defog and help keep the hazards up on the opponent’s side of the field. Bisharp also acts as a great revenge killer and pursuit trapper, as well as late game cleaner in a lot of matches, and synergises well with Gengar with an important psychic and dark resist.


I had poison and burn, I wanted a paralysis too. Prankster T-wave > normal T-wave so Thundurus was an obvious choice. My team is not particularly fast and Thundurus outspeeds the golden 110s, prankster T-wave is simply amazing, plus fast powerful volt switch is always useful. Also at least one flying type is vital otherwise I get curbstomped by scarf mold breaker Excadrill.


The last slot took the longest and a lot of trial and error testing. I wanted a mon to resist ice and dragon to patch some common weaknesses in my team. I wanted a physical attacker as most of my team were special. It couldn’t be SR weak as I had no form of hazard removal. A set-up sweeper would be ideal as I didn’t have one yet, also priority for faster threats if possible. I didn’t have a mega yet so there were a ton of options for this spot, however after much testing I realised Azumarill fit the bill pretty much perfectly. Originally I used a Belly Drum set but I rarely if ever got a chance to set-up so I changed to choice band which has proved really clutch in quite a few matches.


Team in-depth


Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wil-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Hex
- Sludge Bomb


Gengar is my MVP and just a generally cool dude. With status, Hex becomes a 100% accurate 130bp move with no drawbacks. With his already great special attack this allows him to wallbreak and punch massive holes in the opposing team early-game, or clean up against slower teams late-game. Sludge bomb is alternative STAB to hit normal and fairy types, bomb is chosen over wave for the additional chance to poison if the opponent hasn’t been statused (is that a word?) yet. Wil-o-wisp is for status to increase the power of hex, cripple physical attackers/pursuit trappers (though if I let Gengar get trapped that’s my own stupid fault) and helps wear down the opponent. Substitute in combination with Wil-o-wisp lets me sub on the predicted switch to make his job much easier, as he can then pick off the switch-in with ease or weaken or burn it for next time without the risk of being killed in the process. Also helps me win sucker punch mind games which is always great if the set hasn’t been revealed yet, scout for pursuit, avoid leech seed from ferrothorn, stall out for poison/burn damage, etc. As an added bonus he also acts as a spin-blocker. EVs are standard to maximise damage and max speed is vital on gengar, but black sludge instead of life orb works great in tandem with substitute, and hex is so powerful anyway I don’t usually miss the drop in power.



Bisharp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit


Bisharp’s main goal when he first found a place on the team was simply to help me keep hazards up with defiant, and everything else was a bonus. However, since then, he has proved absolutely invaluable on the team in so many other ways and probably gets more kills than any of the other 5 pokes. He synergises great with Gengar defensively offering key immunity/resistance to psychic and dark, while Gar is immune to fighting and ground. The defiant boost from defog/webs/intimidate is always useful and usually lets him do some serious damage. This was the original set I stole from another RMT, I played around with a few sets and kept coming back to this one, it was by far the most useful on this team. Scarf is so useful for the surprise factor as it lets him outspeed and KO some key threats such as Alakazam and Talonflame before they can KO in return. It also lets him act as the team’s primary revenge killer. Pursuit is for trapping lati@s, starmie trying to spin etc., knock off is knock off, one of the best moves in the game. Iron head is useful STAB for fairies and the flinch chance with scarf can be a great ragequit-inducing bonus when it rolls your way. Stone edge works really well as a lure, and the EV spread allows Bish to get the jump on max speed Tornadus-T and Talonflame and KO before they can kill or U-turn, which works really well as it is often unexpected. The rest of the EVs are just for a teeny bit of extra bulk because why not.

How to play Bish completely depends on the opponent’s team. Sometimes he makes a good anti-lead - for example if the opponent has a Weavile I’ve found they will almost always lead it as my team looks really weak to it, and Bish can net a surprise KO with scarf iron head while the Weavile goes for low kick. He can come out early-mid game to knock off items and be generally annoying and weaken the opponent’s team that way. He can stay in the back and be sent out as a revenge killer against many HO mons. Or he can clean up late game once resists have been weakened.



Dragalge @ Draco Plate
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 228 HP / 252 SpA / 28 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Toxic Spikes


Dragalge is the second part of my status trio. I wanted a mon with toxic spikes rather than toxic – the idea is to set them up early, as Bish and Gengar between them can usually prevent their removal. This makes it much easier to spread status around the opposing team and I don’t have to lose momentum doing it manually later in the battle. It also means I can status magic bounce users and keep natural cure mons poisoned throughout the match. With a modest nature, adaptability, STAB, and draco plate, Draco Meteor hits insanely hard and is my team’s strongest attacking move, great for destroying Rotom and other generally annoying pokes to face. Combined with Gengar these two just nuke things and apply a ton of offensive wallbreaking pressure on the opponent. Sludge wave is alternative STAB and again gets the adaptability boost, useful against weaker foes because it doesn’t drop SpA like draco does allowing him to stay in longer. Focus miss is shit but mandatory for steels such as the ever annoying Ferrothorn. [edit: changed focus blast to HP Fire. With Chomp, Azu and Thundy, Heatran is not a problem and HP Fire allows me to more reliably beat ferrothorn, scizor and skarmory.] SpA is maxed for huge damage output. 28 speed Evs are to outspeed Hippowdon and avoid the earthquake 2HKO. The rest dumped into HP - the special bulk is useful to tank a hit or two and retaliate.

Team preview is hugely useful in deciding when and how to use Draggy. If the opponent has a magic bounce mega, I usually lead him to get the spikes up before they mega evolve (obviously if they lead the mega, just nuke them with a draco instead). Otherwise you can hold back and wait for a good time – due to its power, he can force lots of switches giving you plenty of opportunities for setting up the toxic spikes or even just nuking something on the switch. If the opponent has lots of flying/levitate/poison/steel types and toxic spikes aren’t too useful, or if you’ve already set the spikes up, then Draggy is used as a special tank (he is surprisingly bulky on the special side) and powerful wallbreaker. He is also my go-to scald absorber as it actually heals him and he doesn’t mind the burn as much as the others.



Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]


Just a standard Thundurus set. Thundurus completes my status-inducing trio, meaning I can burn, paralyze, or poison, whichever is the most crippling for the opposing poke, while also giving Gengar his drawback-free draco meteor. Prankster T-wave is obviously amazing for neutering dragon dancers, scarfers, etc which would otherwise threaten to destroy my team, or just the threat of it can force switches. Volt switch is always useful for gaining momentum and denting the bulky waters in the tier – because Thundy is so frail, this helps him to get hits off without taking hits in return (other than life orb and SR). [edit: Another option is Thunderbolt for the increase in power and ability to hit things twice in a row, but can't work out yet if it's worth dropping the utility of volt switch.] HP ice for the multitude of 4x-ice-weak mons in the meta right now – chomp, lando, etc. Focus blast primarily for Ferrothorn and Heatran and rounds out the coverage nicely. The flying type complements my team well as otherwise scarf mold breaker excadrill just rapes everything. Unfortunately it also gives me a stealth rock weakness, which along with life orb, means Thundy gets worn down very easily so I have to play carefully with him to keep him healthy if he’s needed for later. I would like to be able to swap life orb for leftovers for longevity, but life orb allows me to nab the HP ice 2HKO on Hippowdown on the switch predicting thunder wave or volt switch. EVs are standard to maximise offensive presence. Thundy is generally coming in on a revenge kill to cripple or scare out a sweeper, or predicted earthquake to gain momentum. He can also be an easy lead if you can’t decide what else to send out as he can volt switch to gain immediate momentum or use HP ice against a ground type (watch out for scarf lando going for stone edge!).



Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast


Tankchomp is my rocker and phazer. Again a really standard set and 0 surprise factor but it just fits my team really well. Stealth rocks are vital for hurting the flying types that are immune to toxic spikes, and in combination with dragon tail and said spikes, Chomp can phase early-game to spread chip damage and status around the opposing team and put the opponent on the back foot. This can be effective and before you know it the whole team can be crippled for Gengar or one of the others to get to work. Dragon tail is also useful for phasing out a sweeper trying to set up. Earthquake is for electrics as Chomp can usually tank a HP ice and retaliate, fire blast is for Skarmory, the omnipresent Ferrothorn, Scizor, etc. My team is quite weak on the defensive side to this point so Chomp’s bulk combined with rough skin and rocky helmet gives me a great switch-in to physical attackers, fake outs, knock offs, etc. and has proved immensely useful in certain battles. Also stops volt turn in its tracks as he is immune to volt switch and punishes U-turners with a good chunk of health off. EVs to maximise physical tankiness to get the most out of the contact damage, and the speed EVs lets me ouspeed neutral-natured base 70s such as Bisharp and Breloom. Everyone knows what Tankchomp does so I’ll leave it at that.



Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off


The final slot and the most contentious, Azumarill fulfils a lot of roles on this team. It took me a long time to settle on Azu and this is the slot that has varied more than any other during testing (in particular Mega Pinsir, Mega Altaria, and Feraligatr were all options but they all had some flaws that made them imperfect choices), and I’m still open to suggestions, but Azu does fill the spot nicely and has been great in many matches.

My team has a couple of ice and dragon weaknesses so Azu offers some key resistances. I wanted a physical attacker as I already had some powerful special attackers, I didn’t want any stealth rock weakness as I had no hazard remover, and priority and set-up capabilities would be a bonus as my team currently lacked both. Originally I went with a Belly Drum set which ticked all the boxes but I actually found it difficult to set-up and use effectively and too easily revenge killed, and once it’s forced out, usually can’t set-up again. Since switching things around the immediate power that choice band provides has proved incredibly useful for the team. Aqua Jet is great as otherwise I lack damage-dealing priority, and with band, it is quite powerful and can halt a frail sweeper in its tracks. It can also be used to easily clean up late-game and helps mitigate Azu’s terrible speed. Waterfall and play rough are more powerful STABs and with CB hit the majority of the metagame like a truck to the face. Knock off is for bulky psychics and general utility in removing items. EVs to maximise attack for maximum hulk smash. The speed EVs let me outspeed uninvested Clefable and the rest is dumped into HP for extra bulk, always useful. Azu can be used early-game as a wallbreaker or late-game as a cleaner with aqua jet, or as a revenge killer, so he finds some use in almost all matches.
Threats/flaws

Not an exhaustive list by any means, but below are the things that stand out as being particularly troublesome on the ladder so far:

Mold Breaker Excadrill
Man this thing is annoying. With scarf, this thing totally wrecks half my team. Thundurus can revenge or switch in on an earthquake but has to watch out for rock slide which KOs and also gets worn down easily by rocks on repeated switches. Garchomp can tank a hit and retaliate and since switching to band, Azu can almost always KO with aqua jet which makes him somewhat less of a threat.

Mega Venusaur
I don’t have any flying or psychic attacks and venu is really bulky and hard to take down, fortunately he also doesn’t really do much to most of my team in return (excluding Azu). Normal strategy is to burn with Gengar then either hide behind a sub and whittle down with hex or switch to Bish for iron head shenanigans.

Raikou and Mega Manectric
These two are really difficult to deal with. Garchomp can block volt switch and if at full health can tank a HP ice and retaliate with EQ, but only if at full. Otherwise it’s usually down to Draggy to tank a hit and nuke with draco meteor. Azu can finish off with aqua jet if they’re weakened. I have to play really carefully with these two.

Bulky Waters
My only SE move against bulky waters is Thundurus’s volt switch, which obviously can’t attack twice in a row for the 2HKO. Thundy is also worn down really easily so it puts a lot of pressure on him. However Azu can tank some water or ice attacks and hit hard with play rough, plus the Gar and Draggy twin nukes are often enough to break through, though I can easily lose a mon in the process.

Hazard stack
Most of my team isn’t hazard weak and I try to keep up enough offensive pressure to keep hazards off the field, but obviously lack of hazard removal can be detrimental in longer games. Try to keep hazards off with pressure and if they do get on, minimise switches by again applying pressure, sub stalling, etc. Usually doesn’t make the difference in a game but not ideal.

The Frailty of Thundurus
Thundy is often put under a lot of pressure in a match due to his utility and power and the large number of roles he can play on my team, hampered by his frailty, life orb recoil and SR weakness. Sometimes it is difficult to preserve him throughout the game and once he’s gone it can be hard to stop a sweep. Play carefully with Thundy and if in doubt or if SR is up then keep him in the back until needed.

Replays
Replays because who doesn’t love replays! Also hopefully this will show you how the team works in action and a bit about my playstyle. This is just a sample selection to try to showcase various teammates in action. Some are low ladder on an alt “Wicksters” which was during testing and I switched over to my main when I equalled it which was around 1350 I think at the time. Have included current ranking when known.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-255419052 (Draggy, Azu, Thundy cripple for Bish to clean up. 1507)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-255424944 (dealing with scarf lando and mold breaker exca. Switching Gengar in early on was a misplay but ok after that. Bish again fundamental at end though I did get lucky with a hydro miss. OU room tourney)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-255146935 (nice close game. No MVP just whole team working well together. 1484)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-255140843 (Draggy and Azu putting in work. Early forfeit but some nice prediction. 1425)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-255131370 (Azu putting in a ton of work for Gengar to clean. Draggy comes through at the end vs Lati after Gar lost speed tie. 1384)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-255136830 (playing around Kyurem-B and mega Venusaur. Chomp’s low speed comes in handy vs rapid spin. Great match, great comeback IMO with Bish and Gar putting in a ton of work at the end. 1407)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-255121864 (Funny due to massive freeze hax, showcasing Draggy, Azu and Thundy. 1368)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-255118472 (vs. stall, slowly wearing down opponent. 1351)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-254809154 (early forfeit showcasing the power of toxic spikes + Gengar. Possibly would have been a 5-0 gengar sweep if not for forfeit. 1408)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-254807273 (another toxic spikes + Gengar blitz combo. Also beating mega Manectric)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-251767929 (good example of Bisharp surprise lead factor. Also Draggy putting in work and some nice prediction. OU room tournament)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-251765648 (some dragon tail phasing leads to the win. OU room tournament)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-251759256 (Bish hole-punching for Gar+toxic spikes to clean up)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-250247024 (low-ladder Draggy sweep)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-249315473 (low-ladder Hexgar sweep supported by toxic spikes + phasing)


Shoutouts
Don’t really have any shoutouts as I don’t really have any friends on here yet lol. But I’ve got to give a little nod to Whitequeen (edit: how do you tag someone?) who inspired me to make a HexGar team with his RMT here - http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/seductive-smile.3543671/ - and also I stole the Bisharp set from here too. Cheers :)


Importable
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Hex
- Sludge Bomb

Bisharp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast

Dragalge @ Draco Plate
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 228 HP / 252 SpA / 28 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Toxic Spikes


Conclusion

So that’s the team. Hope you like it! All suggestions welcome from spread changes to poke changes. I have no mega yet so lots of flexibility, go mad :) I’ve had a hell of a lot of fun with this team and looking forward to getting some feedback and trying out some fresh ideas!
 
Last edited:
No love? Is it TL;DR? :(

After some more testing I've swapped focus blast for HP Fire on Dragalge, which has helped a ton. I didn't struggle with Heatran anyway and this allows me to beat scizor and skarmory, and means I don't have to rely on the shitty accuracy 2hko for ferrothorn.

I've also been looking at ways to improve on thundurus' frailty issue. I tried air balloon magnet rise klefki which was awesome with the spikes utility too, but I missed the boltbeam coverage in too many matches. Zapdos is another idea which I haven't had a chance to try yet but in my head it's hard to get it down to 4 move slots as I want roost, defog, thunderbolt, thunder wave, overheat and HP ice. Also considering thunderbolt > volt switch on thundy for the extra damage and ability to hit twice in a row but can't work out just yet if it's worth losing the utility of volt switch, will keep testing.

Thoughts on this or anything else?
 
Hello. I have a couple of changes:

My first change would be to try out AV Raikou instead of Thundurus. This change alleviates your weakness to pokemon such as M-Manectric that just walks over your team atm. Raikou provides a faster alternative to Thundurus, albeit without TWave, and is an overall safer check to some of the threats that you listed. Raikou also retains the HP Ice and Volt Switch coverage that you originally had in mind when building the team so I feel like this would be a good change to make.

My second change would be to tryout Klefki instead of Azumarill. This provides the team with a useful, and much needed, Fairy-resist so that it can check threats such as M-Gardevoir and M-Altaria. Klefki also provides Spikes stacking and can spread Thunder Waves, which add to the purpose and overall goal of the team. Also provides the team with a replacement of a nice Dark-type resist so that threats such as Weavile can be checked with ease.

Last change would be to try out LO Bisharp over Scarf. Adding Klefki has removed weaknesses to some threats that Scarf Bisharp was supposed to check and I think that the versitality that is provided by LO over Scarf is great at taking advantage of a potential Defog.

Sets:
Raikou @ Assault Vest
EVs: 224 SpA / 32 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Shadow Ball

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
- Play Rough


Hope I helped
 

bludz

a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Yo, this team looks pretty fun man.

First change I'd suggest is your Gengar's EV spread to 108 HP / 148 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature. This makes it so that burned Tank Chomp's Dragon Tail, Defensive Mega Venusaur's Giga Drain and Clefable's Moonblast all have extremely low chances of breaking a Substitute. The lack of initial power is made up for by spreading burns and being able to more reliably substitute to deal more damage in the long run. I would also considering running Taunt over Sludge Wave, since you already have ways to deal with a lot of the Fairy types that Sludge Wave is the main target for, and Taunt will allow you to stallbreak in general better. This can alleviate some of the problems you have with bulky waters since it will prevent them from recovering.

Next up I'd go Max Speed on Bisharp. Your current spread does not outspeed +1 Adamant Mega Altaria and I think this is a benchmark that might be useful to reach. Jolly is getting more popular but Adamant is still more used at the moment.

I notice that your team pretty much despises Mega Sableye. You don't have a very reliable way to break it. For this reason, I would suggest Lum Berry on Azumarill so you can lead off with it against Sableye and not fear being burned. This also helps somewhat against Specially Defensive Talonflame which is annoying. I'd probably throw Power-Up Punch over Knock Off as well, because you already have Knock Off support and PuP allows you to return to Choice Band levels of power after a single turn of setup - this will help breaking down bulky waters as well bar Quagsire.

I'd keep Thunderbolt on Thundurus. The extra power is important in my opinion and Volt Switch has some nice utility but sometimes you need to be able to stay in and keep attacking with this monster. HP [Ice] doesn't 2HKO Hippowdon by the way, they run a spread to avoid that. You could consider Grass Knot but I think HP Ice is pretty good on this team for taking out Lando and Chomp. I'd playtest it a bit if you have the time.

Anyway I think another thing to consider is Scolipede over Dragalge. You lose a switch-in to a bunch of things but Scolipede gives you a cleaner and can still set up Toxic Spikes. I'm not going to make this an official recommendation as part of the rate because I am not totally sure if this will be a good change or not, but this is another thing I would suggest that you playtest a bit if you are interested in trying it out.

Anyway summary:
Change Gengar's EV Spread and Taunt over Sludge Wave
Max Speed on Bisharp
Lum Berry PuP Azumarill
Thunderbolt on Thundurus

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 108 HP / 148 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wil-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Hex
- Taunt

Bisharp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit

Azumarill @ Lum Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Power-Up Punch

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
 
Awesome, thanks both, really appreciate your time and the rates!

Hello. I have a couple of changes:

My first change would be to try out AV Raikou instead of Thundurus.

My second change would be to tryout Klefki instead of Azumarill.

Last change would be to try out LO Bisharp over Scarf.

Hope I helped
Interesting changes, I've been trying to find a way to put Klefki on my team and I hadn't thought of Raikou. These changes definitely help me with my electric and fairy weaknesses and keep the important hard hitting boltbeam, prankster t-wave, and give me prankster spikes as an additional bonus as well which is awesome. Only problem is it compounds my ground weakness and now a fast earthquake kills even more of my team, worse if it's mold breaker. Obviously magnet rise helps one on one but it still can't switch in, so I might try air balloon on klefki so it can switch in on earthquake too, then I can magnet rise if/when the balloon gets popped. Hopefully it won't die too quickly without the leftovers, so I'll try both and see.

LO Bisharp is interesting, the increase in power and ability to switch moves is definitely huge, but scarf has put in a ton of work in so many matches I'm reluctant to change it. However I do have prankster T-wave for speed control so that might be enough and I will definitely try it. I might see if I can fit sucker punch on there if it's not scarfed, maybe over pursuit. Bludz mentioned Scolipede over Dragalge which I think would be a good change in this situation as it replaces scarf Bish's role as a fast cleaner.

As it's now changing half my team members I'm gonna create a team #2 with the changes and ladder on an alt and see how I get on. I probably won't have much time for a couple of days but I'll try to give it a go soon and will update with how I get on.

Very excited to try this. Thanks so much for the feedback!

Yo, this team looks pretty fun man.

Anyway summary:
Change Gengar's EV Spread and Taunt over Sludge Wave
Max Speed on Bisharp
Lum Berry PuP Azumarill
Thunderbolt on Thundurus
This is really cool, especially the Gengar and Azumarill changes. I had considered taunt but didn't know where to fit it, but you're right I don't really need sludge wave. This will come in really handy I think as I struggle a bit vs stall, and a fast taunt is always useful especially from behind a sub, and also the HP EVs to strengthen the sub sounds really great in lots of situations considering the role he plays on my team.
Lum PuP Azu is genius, I had not even considered that as an option but I think it gives me a really vital wisp answer and also against Sableye and I think I will get lots of options to set-up due to Azu forcing lots of switches.
I can't wait to try these changes!

Max speed on Bish makes sense. I thought most Altaria ran jolly but if that's not the case and since Bish is my main alt answer that's a no-brainer :)

I was leaning towards thunderbolt on Thundy so thanks for convincing me on that one. My bad on the Hippo 2HKO, I did kill a couple of hippos on the ladder with thundy but it was low ladder so they were probably not EVd optimally.

Again I don't have much time to test it right away but I will get some testing done on my main ASAP and update with results! Thanks, I'm hyped to try this out!

I actually did use scolipede on my team originally and after a while replaced it with Dragalge for more offensive presence. However if I go with LO Bisharp over scarf as per Analytic's suggestion above then the fast cleaner would fit much better again I think, so I'll try that on my team #2 and see how it goes.

Cheers again to both!
 
Last edited:

DennisEG

Civil Engineer
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Ok aparently got ninja'ed by Bludz and Analityc but i can help you with somethings still, Watching your threat list i dont think Mega venu is an issue having bulky gengar and dragalge, electric types runs throught your team specially if they predict your garchomp or is weak enough so AV raikou over Thundy could be a good change but then you look a bit weak to Zard X, sand offense isnt a huge problem too, Azu + tank chomp can handle it, you might dont think that Clefable could be a threat but can t-wave all your squad and CM for the win, so Taunt>Sludge Bomb is needed on Gengar. I wanna give you a couple of Ev's spreads that might help you more.
  • Max speed on Bisharp definitely those extra Evs on HP does nothing at all.
  • The Ev Spread Bludz suggested on gengar too, also has enough Spattack to 2hko Spedef Gliscor.
  • I leave you another Dragalge set down below, this set allow you to hit every single steel and phaze some bulky water that try to set up on you.
  • and last 204 Evs on Speed for Azu, this allow you to outspeed more Azus in the metagame because your really weak to opposing CB Azu.
Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 196 HP / 168 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Tail
Hope i help you and GL
 

bludz

a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Oh yeah I'm gonna go ahead and second DennisEG's suggestion for the speed on Azu. I normally run about that much personally and I think it has enough bulk to do what it needs without much HP investment while the extra speed lets you get the jump on most other Azus and also Skarmory which tends to run a lil bit of speed these days.
 
AV raikou over Thundy could be a good change but then you look a bit weak to Zard X
Taunt>Sludge Bomb is needed on Gengar.
  • Max speed on Bisharp definitely those extra Evs on HP does nothing at all.
  • The Ev Spread Bludz suggested on gengar too, also has enough Spattack to 2hko Spedef Gliscor.
  • I leave you another Dragalge set down below, this set allow you to hit every single steel and phaze some bulky water that try to set up on you.
  • and last 204 Evs on Speed for Azu, this allow you to outspeed more Azus in the metagame because your really weak to opposing CB Azu
Thanks for the advice! Definitely gonna use the Gengar set with taunt and improved EVs. The speed EVs on Azu is a nice touch to outspeed opposing Azu especially now that I don't have sludge wave on Gar, so that's another definite solid upgrade to the team - cheers :)

Will try Raikou after trying the other changes first - I don't want to change too much at once as then I don't see what's the most effective change. But it's definitely a good idea to mitigate my electric weakness, which I agree is probably my biggest weakness at the moment. I know you said that sand wasn't a problem as Asu and Chomp can handle it, but I'd still prefer not to have so many moms weak to ground... But I will still definitely try Raikou on team #2 first, and then on the main team after I've played with the other changes, and I'll just need to make sure Azu stays healthy to check the earthquake spam :)

The Dragalge set is interesting but the problem is that removing toxic spikes, plus removing thunder wave in the switch from Thundurus to Raikou, means I would only have Gengar's wil-o-wisp for status. He can probably handle it especially with the extra HP subs from the EV change but it is nice to have more status options for the team to support him, so if I'm taking toxic spikes off Draggy that removes his main niche and I can probably change him for something with more defensive synergy. Interesting idea and definitely needs some more thought on my side into the different options.

Cheers again for your time and even more food for thought and exciting new things to try :) I'd love to give it a go tonight, so I might try later if I get the chance, will see how things work out though it might have to wait till later in the week... Anyway will update when I can!
 
Last edited:
I haven't really looked at your team to closely, and I'm sure the other posters all have brought up some better stuff, but have you considered running expert belt over life orb on Thundurus? You lose power on volt switch against neutral targets, but HP Ice and Focus Blast are generally for SE hits, and you did mention that his frailty was a big problem for your team. It's not much, but not taking life orb recoil can make a big difference in how long he'll manage to stay alive, especially since he doesn't like switching into rocks, and you don't have a hazard remover.
 
Do u wanna ladder sometime? I'm kinda in the same situation as u I don't really know anybody either:(
This may be a really noobish question but, what does that mean? Like, we both ladder at the same time, watch each other's battles, give each other tips etc.? I mean that sounds pretty cool :)
Problem is my work schedule and home situation means I can't really plan much in advance and I may in the middle have to leave at a moment's notice... But if you don't mind that I can send you a PM next time I'm free and if you're free too then yeah sure :) it'll usually be around 8:00pm GMT if that's any use? Sorry I can't be more specific!

I haven't really looked at your team to closely, and I'm sure the other posters all have brought up some better stuff, but have you considered running expert belt over life orb on Thundurus? You lose power on volt switch against neutral targets, but HP Ice and Focus Blast are generally for SE hits, and you did mention that his frailty was a big problem for your team. It's not much, but not taking life orb recoil can make a big difference in how long he'll manage to stay alive, especially since he doesn't like switching into rocks, and you don't have a hazard remover.
That actually does sound good, thinking about it, yeah with his coverage he is usually hitting something super effectively especially on the hits that matter. The life orb recoil definitely adds up. I had only considered leftovers but the drop in power was too great for not enough reward, expert belt sounds like s decent compromise, I'll check it out!
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top