Kyurem

[canno]

Ice / Fire is horrible, seeing as Ice / Fire is one of the worst typing ever, offensively (?) and defensively (x4 Stealth Rock weakness, weaknesses to almost every good and common attacking type, resist some of the most useless shit, the only notable one is Ice) Does Fire/Ice even get good coverage by itself? Pretty sure most that resist Ice resist Fire as well, but I'm not too sure. Might not even make it to OU just because of typing.

Ice / Electric seems decent enough to go to Ubers though (as long as it gets a good physical electric attack) seeing as he gets STAB BoltBeam with a (most likely) massive SpAtk/Atk stat. Defensively is as bad as you would expect ice to be, except resisting BoltBeam is pretty damn cool.

 

[Death Phenomeno]

Does Fire/Ice even get good coverage by itself?

Nope. Most (if not all [not sure]) pure Fire, pure Water, and Thick Fat Pokémon resist Ice/Fire.

On the other hand, only Magnezone, F-Rotom, and H-Rotom resist BoltBeam by typing alone. Shedinja, Lightning Rod Seaking, Volt Absorb Lanturn, and Thick Fat Mamoswine are the others that can somehow resist it.

 

[Prplcheez]

Not positive if this has been posted about here before, but a quick search yields no results.

What do you guys think of Kyurem as a special wall? My DW team needed a good counter to Gliscor and something to stop special sweepers, and Kyurem's amazing SPAtk, decent defenses, and Ice STAB made it seem like a good choice.

I'm running Calm (-Atk +SPDef) nature, Leftovers, 252 HP, 4 SPAtk, and 252 SPDef, with Ice Beam, Toxic, Protect, and Dragon Pulse. It hits 454 HP and 306 SPDef. In my experience so far it can take pretty much any non-boosted special attack in the game (besides possibly Focus Blast), functions pretty well in taking out enemy walls with toxic/protect, and OHKOs any Gliscor build which is the biggest threat against my team.

I know it's probably an awful and totally non-optimal setup, but it has worked so far. Thoughts?

 

[Nova]

Of course the typing is important but the stat spreads will contribute massively to the new formes' tiering. If they get 100+ base speed I can they see them working in Ubers, especially the Electric/Ice forme. Also the movepools will be important, who knows if the electric/ice forme will get thunderbolt because it is already getting the charge up electric attack

 

[KurashiDragon]

I'm gonna call them Kyurem-R and Kyurem-Z

I really hope Kyurem-r get's a good ability to compinsate for that terrible typing. While chances are it'll just get Turboblaze again, I really hope that's not the case as Kyurem-r would really be terrible.

Kyurem-z is a little better. Boltbeam will destroy all that get's in it's way but defensivley, it really only adds weaknesses.

 

[Harsha]

Hold your horses, we don't know if Kyurem will even receive type changes. I can't see it losing its Dragon typing.

 

[redhairedking]

I think it's a little early to start talking about the new Kyurems. We know virtually nothing about them.

 

[gvmgvm40]

Not positive if this has been posted about here before, but a quick search yields no results.

What do you guys think of Kyurem as a special wall? My DW team needed a good counter to Gliscor and something to stop special sweepers, and Kyurem's amazing SPAtk, decent defenses, and Ice STAB made it seem like a good choice.

I'm running Calm (-Atk +SPDef) nature, Leftovers, 252 HP, 4 SPAtk, and 252 SPDef, with Ice Beam, Toxic, Protect, and Dragon Pulse. It hits 454 HP and 306 SPDef. In my experience so far it can take pretty much any non-boosted special attack in the game (besides possibly Focus Blast), functions pretty well in taking out enemy walls with toxic/protect, and OHKOs any Gliscor build which is the biggest threat against my team.

I know it's probably an awful and totally non-optimal setup, but it has worked so far. Thoughts?

125/90/90 defenses are great and all, but Kyurem is weak to SR and has no recovery. Unless you run it with Wish and/or Rapid Spin support, it'll probably get worn down too quickly.

 

[Muk]

Both are obviously going to be part ice seeing half of its body is an ice crystal. Ice/Electric, and Ice/Fire at best. This is Game Freak, leave your competitive wishes behind, lol.

This.

 

[haunter]

Please post your speculations in Firestorm's thread. Let's avoid theorymon here.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

So until we get new competitive information about the newer Kyurem forms, I guess this thing's destiny is to be used on Hail teams, and nothing else much of note. It's pretty much the better Dragon-type in the hail (STAB Blizzards, Dragon-type STAB, decent Speed, and an immunity to hail itself). I'd like to be the guy who finds a creative and viable way to use it on standard teams, but in the end, it's pretty hard to find a reason to use this over the standard OU Dragon-types (Salamence, Dragonite, Latias, Latios). I mean, it can OHKO DD Dragonite through Multiscale with its Scarf set and Ice Beam, but any Dragon-type can do that with Stealth Rock damage and the obvious STAB.

What a dilemma.

 

[alphatron]

There are always the sub sets with spin support I guess. It might be worth it if you go mixed with sub + 3 attacks.

 

[ThePhalanx]

Just thought I'd stop by and say how great Modest-Specs Kyurem is late-game on hail teams. I've had quite a few games on PO where I pull a 5-1 or 4-1 comeback by locking myself into dragon pulse and cleaning up a bunch of hail-weakened pokes. People also expect to outspeed with things like DD-Kingdra, and assume Scarf when they don't.

 

[DDRMaster]

There's no way Kyurem can outrun max speed Timid Gengar without a Scarf or something like a Tailwind boost. I think your opponent either didn't know how to use Gengar or forgot to give it EVs.

 

[ThePhalanx]

There's no way Kyurem can outrun max speed Timid Gengar without a Scarf or something like a Tailwind boost. I think your opponent either didn't know how to use Gengar or forgot to give it EVs.

wait wait I remember now, his gengar did outspeed but he missed a focus blast. Ill edit that out.

 

[Galactic Boss Cyrus]

I love Glaciate on this thing. Kyurem munches on everyone who doesn't have Conkeldurr or Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave/Bullet Punch. Unfortunately... that's just about everyone right there. Now, if only it had a cooler Dex entry, then it'd probably have the self-confidence to beat its way to Ubers. Probably.

 

[StallMandibuzz]

Ice is such a crappy defensive typing, in-game and in competitive battling. It's to be seen whether or not Kyurem will lose its' Dragon typing, but it's a double edged sword. STAB Draco Meteor is amazing, but if only its' Speed and HP switched. Ah well. :P 95 HP is still pretty good, but 125 Speed would be a huge boon for Kyurem. Also, I'm not speculating anything, just saying my opinion. :|

 

[Saitsuofleaves]

Which do you think is better for coverage, Earth Power or Focus Blast?

 

[ace combat]

I have had more success with Dragon Pulse using Earth Power, but with Ice Beam Focus Blast is better.

 

[Saitsuofleaves]

Well I'm using a Scarf set right now, that's been working well, but I've never been a big fan of Focus Miss.

Right now it's at Draco/Blizzard/HP Fire

Focus Blast is somewhat better so I can deal with the Pink Blobs and Air Balloon Heatran, but without Hail (anti-meta Hail team), it leaves HP Fire as the only thing that for sure won't miss, and it bothers me.

 

[Lou Cypher]

I'd probably always run Earth Power. The only thing in OU that resists Dragon/Ice/Ground is Bronzong, and he isn't that common. Blizzard/Ice Beam coming from him already hits some of the premier Steels pretty hard since they are hit neutral (Read: Ferrothorn and Skarmory) and Earth Power should cope with Heatran and Jirachi...the latter probably being the best steel to send out against New!Kyurem due to its ability to outpace while carrying a lot of bulk.
Blizzard/Dragon Pulse/Earth Power/Roost in a defensively-inclined Hail team seems pretty powerful. Blizzard/Draco Meteor/Earth Power/Filler (HP Whateveryourteamneeds? Fire perhaps to fry Scizor on the switch...) with Specs will wreck stuff.

 

[Saitsuofleaves]

Well I was using Scarf with some niceness, due to running into Latios every two seconds, and being annoyed.

It's pretty much either Scarf or Specs for the choice, I might switch due to the metagame shift.

Should I post an import of the team?

 

[TCTphantom]

Poor Kyurem. Every OU dragon bar Dragonite outspeeds you, and it has Extremespeed for that. And with TrollFreak not giving it Ice Punch, it looks like all that Atk is wasted unless it is mixed. But at least it got Roost to offset SR and Spikes...

 

[Venomous Woe]

First, before we begin, allow me to introduce myself. I'm Venomous Woe. I've been using this site's Strategydex for quite some time, but have only now decided to get an account here.

Anyways, the title should pretty much reveal the topic of this thread, but I'll go in depth anyway. Some time ago (and by some time ago I mean a day) I posted this video showing a hail team battling a hail team. In this case, mine against the other guys'. What struck me about this match in particular was that I had Kyurem on my team, and he did the lion's share of the sweeping this game. So that got me thinking, if Kyurem's so powerful, why isn't he used more often?

From personal experience, I'd say it's because the Ice type has weaknesses to too many common types. Sure, Kyurem has bulk, but I don't get to take advantage of it that much (the only really safe switch-in for Kyurem is Rotom-W). With everything carrying Focus Blast and with Conkeldurr, Breloom, Tyranitar, and Terrakion running around, it's not a terribly safe environment for Kyurem.

Plus there's also the issue of boosting moves. He doesn't really get a lot of them. Sure, he gets Dragon Dance, and a decent attack stat, but with no physical Ice STAB to abuse, it seems like a waste of a moveslot. There's also his low speed, which is sort of related. I'm willing to bet that if Kyurem got Agility, he'd be used a LOT more often.

On the other hand, instead of letting him fall to UU, Smogon has kept him in BL, and I think I know why. The Sub-Roost Kyurem set (which I hold is the best set Kyurem can run) is quite nasty. Especially in hail, since you can spam Blizzard all day behind a sub. And since Ice attacks are pretty potent in the OU metagame, having a guy that gets STAB on Ice Beam/Blizzard attacking from behind a sub can be a tough threat to deal with. There's also his mixed set, which I've also used. Great wallbreaker, that set.

What are your thoughts on the ice dragon? Do you think he's viable in OU? Is the video representative of Kyurem's ability to succeed?

 

[Danger Mouse]

He was in BL long before Sub-Roost came along (he only got access to roost recently). I've been running that set, incidentally, and it is fantastic. Honestly, Kyurem can set up on most water types (I hardly ever see Politoed with Focus Blast these days, and even so, they're usually choice locked on Hydro Pump or something anyway), and anything slow that tries to status. Hail is great for subroost kyurem because not only does it allow for 100% accurate blizzards, Kyurem can stall out opponents that don't have enough power to get around his bulk thanks to residual hail damage.