Last 4th Gen team...

[Jackbot]

(Sorry for my bad english as it's not my main language)
Hello Smogon, this is my second RMT. I'm going to play V gen as soon as it
comes out in Europe; until then, up to gen IV.
This team is planned to be played in Wi-fi battles; however, i use Shoddy to
test it. So, here's my team at a glance:

I must say the team I posted in my first RMT wasn't that great, so I
completely changed it. However, this team too has some problems.
Here are my pokes:

Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
Serene Grace
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe
-Air Slash
-Flamethrower
-Aura Sphere
-Trick

I wanted to try this Togekiss as my lead, and I must say it's not bad: he
wins many lead match-ups with the proper team support, as he can also
cripple SR users with Trick. I can also keep him later in the game to try a
sweep, since the EVs given give him a great power and the 60% chance to
flinch with Air Slash makes him really good. Flamethrower and Aura Sphere
are there for coverage, helping me dealing with common leads like Metagross
and Heatran.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Flash Fire
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe
-Substitute
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Toxic

I've been testing this set for Heatran and it just works great. Everyone
expects that he's scarfed, so they usually switch into their counter (I see
he forces a lot of switches XD), usually another Heatran or a Suicune or
another bulky water and... surprise, they find a substitute. So i proceed to
EP the other Heatran or Toxic the bulky water or do whatever is needed.
Overall, I like Heatran because he can easily deal with Scizor, Forretress,
and many others like Celebi, Roserade, Skarmory and so on.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Torrent
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP, 212 Def, 48 Sp.Def
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Ice beam
-Roar/Protect

Ah, Swampert... he solves many of my problems. He covers really well his
team mates' weaknesses, and can hit pretty hard some pokes that can
really annoy me, such as Gliscor, Dragonite, Heatran, some kind of Zapdos if
he doesn't carry HP Grass, and so on. He is also my SR user and physical
tank more generally. I was used to run Roar in the 4th slot, but Protect
scouts specific single moves, so it is also really effective.

Celebi @ Life Orb
Natural Cure
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Sp.Atk, 4 Spe
-Thunder Wave
-Leaf Storm
-Psychic
-Recover

The final member of the Swampert-Heatran-Celebi combo: theese three
guys alone provide all 17 resistances. However, this is not the only reason
i run Celebi, of course. TW cripples fast sweepers and Dragon Dancers, and
also makes Togekiss' sweep easier if he used Trick on someone. Celebi also
makes a perfect Swampert counter, while also being useful against Gyara,
Starmie, and others. Note that this set is designed to be offensive, since
this is a more offence-oriented team, while also providing great support.

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Sand Stream
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 180 HP, 252 Atk, 76 Spe
-Stone Edge
-Crunch
-Pursuit
-Earthquake

This beast can destroy teams if his counters are gone. So, more in depths:
Tyranitar can take down a huge component of the metagame just by using
SE, and can also KO Ghosts like Dusknoir and some rare Gengar (I can't talk
about Rotom-A as it's not available in Wi-fi). So this is why I use Tyranitar
as one of my physical sweepers, while also providing Sandstorm which many
pokes in my team resist. So, SE and Crunch are for STAB, Pursuit for
Ghosts, Starmie, Celebi... , EQ for coverage.

Lucario @ Life Orb
Inner Focus
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-ExtremeSpeed
-Stone Edge

I just love Lucario. My late game sweeper, he can break through weakened
teams that are even about to win the match. He fits well in this team
because Celebi can easily lure out a Tyranitar, easing his set-up. He can
also come in on Skarmory or Blissey or other walls who would otherwise give
me trouble, breaking the stall and possibly starting a sweep.


So... this was my team; I've been testing it on Shoddy with a fine success,
but still I think it should be changed a bit. For example, if Swampert was
KOed during the match, an opposing Gliscor would be more than a problem.
But Gliscor isn't the only one... set-up sweepers can sometimes cause me
some real trouble.
I also see that Spikes+Stealth Rock can heavily damage my switch-ins;
a spinner would be good, even if I'm not a fan of it...
So, this is why I made this RMT, I'd appreciate being helped to focus my
team's weaknesses; I'm open to any suggestion =)

 

[Eggbert]

The biggest problem this team has is dealing with fast sweepers. Mixnape, LO Starmie, LO Gengar, Shaymin, ect all have a good shot at 6-0ing you. I'd recommend switching Heatran to the lead slot and making Togekiss a bulky twaver. Twave help checks threats, slows down teams for Ttar to smack around, and generally helps with the slow nature of your team. Togekiss does well against those threats with a more defensive spread. Heatran can run the LO lead set or SR. That in turn leaves space for Swampert. The lead choice/SR slot is up to you, but I mainly recommend the defensive Togekiss to make your team a bit sturdier.

 

[AB2]

Hmm, if its pokemon such as Skarmory and Forretress that you are worried about, then why not just try an Expert Belt Tyranitar over your current one? This Tyranitar will allow you to lure in Skarmory and Forretress as they try to spike on you, thinking that you are scarfed and then destroy them with a Fire Blast. If you prefer to try and pave the way for an end game Lucario sweep, then Ice Beam is also an option as well as it lures in Gliscor. If you prefer to stay with your Choice Band Tyranitar I would recommend that you run Aqua Tail over Earthquake. This allows it so that pokemon such as Gliscor and Hippowdon are weakened or KO'd so that they can no longer stop a Lucario sweep. Also, it is dangerous to lock yourself onto an ground move as pokemon such as Dragonite and Skarmory set up on your even more that way. Next, I would like to suggest that you replace your lead. Although Togekiss can make a nice anti-lead it really is not contributing to your team anymore than just annoying the opponent. I would like to suggest an interesting anti lead for you. I think that a SubRoost Zapdos would work very well over that Togekiss.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Timid 164 HP | 92 Def | 252 Spe Pressure
Substitute | Roost | Thunderbolt | Toxic

This Zapdos will not only provide you with a great anti-lead pokemon in this metagame, but it will also provide you an extra cushion against pokemon such as Lucario and Gyarados [Gyarados especially you have quite a few problems with]. Sub Roost Zapdos will also help you with pokemon such as Celebi and Shaymin which can get in your way late game. You may now notice that if you add this Zapdos, your team is slightly open to pokemon such as Tyranitar. If you ask me, I think that replacing your Heatran with an Iron Ball + Trick Metagross would help you substantially. Not only will Metagross be able to check most Tyranitar, but it will also help you in luring in pokemon such as Skarmory and Rotom, therefore breaking down stall teams that can give you some trouble.

Metagross @ Iron Ball
Adamant 236 HP | 252 Atk | 36 Spe Clear Body
Trick | Meteor Mash | Earthquake | Stealth Rocks

Now, as I am sure that you notice, I have just added another Stealth Rock user. This means that you have the opportunity to replace your Swampert as it does not really serve that much purpose on this team any longer. I would advocate for a Life Orb Starmie over Swampert in order to check pokemon such as Mixape much better. Life Orb Starmie would not only help you check Mixed Infernape, but it would also be able to rid the field of hazards with Rapid Spin after you have pursuited the enemy team's spin blocker away. Not to mention that Life Orb Starmie can remove some of Lucario's grounded counters such as Gliscor and Hippowdon.

Alright that is all that I have to say for now, I wish you good luck with this team!

 

[The Grand Babido]

You have pointed out that you have issues with common Spikes users, such as Skarmory and Forretress, due to your team having a lot of Pokemon that can allow them to set-up. Without changing too much of the team, the best option for you is to use an Expert Belt Tyranitar over your current set as AB2 pointed out. Not only will it lure out and dispose of common Spikes users, such as Skarmory and Forretress, by bluffing a Choice Scarf, it will also lure out and remove some threats to Lucario. By converting to an Expert Belt set, Tyranitar can lure out and remove Gliscor, Hippowdon, Scarf Jirachi and friends. Not only this, but Tyranitar can also Pursuit other threats to Lucario, such as Zapdos and Rotom-A that invest in over 192 Spe Timid or use a Choice Scarf. For these reasons, I think Expert Belt Tyranitar would be a wonderful addition on your team over your current set:

Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Hasty | Sandstream
EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 216 Spe
Pursuit / Superpower / Fire Blast / Ice Beam

While we may have solved your issues with the defensive threats, Skarmory and Forretress, there are a few offensive threats that stand out as large issues to your team. The first is Lucario. The second is Infernape. With a Swords Dance boost, Lucario is able to simply sweep your entire team cold if Stealth Rock are up [so Togekiss cannot revenge it]. On top of this, it gets a few opportunities to set-up, such as Togekiss [due to Inner Focus], Celebi at -2, and if you decide to keep your Choice Band set, Tyranitar. A simple fix to this issue is to use a more speed-orientated Celebi set, so you have the ability to outrun Lucario and beat it. I would use a set of 72 HP / 252 SpAtk / 184 Spe and the moveset: Leaf Storm / Recover / Earth Power / Hidden Power [Fire]. An extra precaution could be to use Jolly on Lucario. Jolly Lucario's uses aren't limited to outrunning other Lucario -- Jolly Lucario will be able to outrun opposing offensive Suicune, Mamoswine and max Speed Rotom. Definitely a change I would to consider.

To fix your weakness to Infernape, I think you should follow AB2's suggestion of a bulky water, but in my opinion a Suicune would be much more beneficial than Starmie. Because I plan on keeping Heatran and replacing Swampert, Starmie would only compound your Tyranitar weakness. While Suicune does not directly counter Tyranitar, nothing Tyranitar has in its arsenal can 2HKO it, meaning that Suicune can act as a check. I would suggest a "CroCune" over Swampert as that would give you extra Tyranitar insurance, but any form of Suicune would be a good plan. CroCune is also not 2HKOed by Infernape's Close Combat.

Finally, with the removal of Swampert, your Tyranitar weakness becomes quite apparent. Also, without Swampert, you have no Stealth Rock user. By using Will-o-wisp and Stealth Rock on Heatran over Substitute and Toxic, you gain the ability to lure out and burn Tyranitar making it much less of a threat and a valiant Stealth Rock user.

I hope you consider my suggestions, good luck!

 

[Byakuren]

Hmm, if its pokemon such as Skarmory and Forretress that you are worried about, then why not just try an Expert Belt Tyranitar over your current one? This Tyranitar will allow you to lure in Skarmory and Forretress as they try to spike on you, thinking that you are scarfed and then destroy them with a Fire Blast. If you prefer to try and pave the way for an end game Lucario sweep, then Ice Beam is also an option as well as it lures in Gliscor. If you prefer to stay with your Choice Band Tyranitar I would recommend that you run Aqua Tail over Earthquake. This allows it so that pokemon such as Gliscor and Hippowdon are weakened or KO'd so that they can no longer stop a Lucario sweep. Also, it is dangerous to lock yourself onto an ground move as pokemon such as Dragonite and Skarmory set up on your even more that way. Next, I would like to suggest that you replace your lead. Although Togekiss can make a nice anti-lead it really is not contributing to your team anymore than just annoying the opponent. I would like to suggest an interesting anti lead for you. I think that a SubRoost Zapdos would work very well over that Togekiss.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Timid 164 HP | 92 Def | 252 Spe Pressure
Substitute | Roost | Thunderbolt | Toxic

This Zapdos will not only provide you with a great anti-lead pokemon in this metagame, but it will also provide you an extra cushion against pokemon such as Lucario and Gyarados [Gyarados especially you have quite a few problems with]. Sub Roost Zapdos will also help you with pokemon such as Celebi and Shaymin which can get in your way late game. You may now notice that if you add this Zapdos, your team is slightly open to pokemon such as Tyranitar. If you ask me, I think that replacing your Heatran with an Iron Ball + Trick Metagross would help you substantially. Not only will Metagross be able to check most Tyranitar, but it will also help you in luring in pokemon such as Skarmory and Rotom, therefore breaking down stall teams that can give you some trouble.

Metagross @ Iron Ball
Adamant 236 HP | 252 Atk | 36 Spe Clear Body
Trick | Meteor Mash | Earthquake | Stealth Rocks

Now, as I am sure that you notice, I have just added another Stealth Rock user. This means that you have the opportunity to replace your Swampert as it does not really serve that much purpose on this team any longer. I would advocate for a Life Orb Starmie over Swampert in order to check pokemon such as Mixape much better. Life Orb Starmie would not only help you check Mixed Infernape, but it would also be able to rid the field of hazards with Rapid Spin after you have pursuited the enemy team's spin blocker away. Not to mention that Life Orb Starmie can remove some of Lucario's grounded counters such as Gliscor and Hippowdon.

Alright that is all that I have to say for now, I wish you good luck with this team!

An ebelt tyranitar? Really? He has a banded tar which means he can 2hko skarm with banded stone edge. He should take out togekiss put a scarf rotom then lead tran and bulky starmie that still outspeeds most sweepers like gengar ape etc...

 

[jle1076]

Starmie @ Life Orb
Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe
-Surf
-Grass Knot
-Ice Beam
-Rapid Spin

This pokemon is your Spinner, your Gliscor Checker, your Hippowdon checker, and opposing Swampert checker or any bulky water type. Ice beam also destroys Flygon because he cant OHKO with anything unless he gets a crit

 

[Byakuren]

Starmie @ Life Orb
Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe
-Surf
-Grass Knot
-Ice Beam
-Rapid Spin

This pokemon is your Spinner, your Gliscor Checker, your Hippowdon checker, and opposing Swampert checker or any bulky water type. Ice beam also destroys Flygon because he cant OHKO with anything unless he gets a crit

Change surf to hydro pump and grass knot to thunderbolt

 

[jle1076]

Hell no, Life Orb STAB Surf with SpA maxed out is better than Hydro for accuracy and will OHKO anything its SE against regardless 0_o and grass knot is incredible for Swampert and Hippowdon

 

[Fantom0]

Surf is way better than Hydro Pump. But yes, having Thunderbolt means Starmie can easily beat Skarmory, and more than that, Starmie is excellent at sweeping late-game. It's a great Infernape counter, resisting both STAB, and a real pain in the ass for Spikers/Rockers. CroCune is worth considering though, as it can deal with bulky waters better (courtesy of Sub + CM) and can also sweep late game. Finally I agree with AB2 on the EBelt TTar. It would really help out your team.
If you're not planning on removing any pokemon, Lucario might be better off with a NP set, with Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse for coverage and Vaccuum Wave for priority. It could help, you never know.

 

[BKC]

Lucario might be better off with a NP set, with Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse for coverage and Vaccuum Wave for priority. It could help, you never know.

Title: Last 4th Gen team
NP Lucario: 5th gen
._.


Anyways, on to the rate.
Unfortunately, I can't fully rate this team, as AB2 and Heist have made adequate suggestions. Try both versions out, and maybe you'll have two teams out of it (one with AB2's suggestions and another with Heist's)!

However, I'd like to suggest an alternate EV spread on the SubRoost Zapdos AB2 suggested. It is: 216 Spe (outruns Gliscor so you can Sub or Toxic it before the Taunt), 164 HP (Leftovers number allowing you to recover more HP each turn and therefore create more Substitutes), and 132 SDef (allows you to tank most special hits from the likes of Heatran and Vaporeon with ease) with a Timid nature.

Also, if you choose to use LO Starmie, use Hydro Pump. KOs Tyranitar and Scizor, which Surf cannot.

Good luck!