LCPL 5 Discussion

[shiloh]

6:29 PM<PURPLEDOOSH> !nominate purpledoosh
6:29 PM<@ObviousBot> PURPLEDOOSH is up for auction. Metagames: ORAS / TangMa / BW
6:29 PM<@ObviousBot> Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: 3000
6:29 PM<GOAO> !-10
6:29 PM<Merritt> !.000001
6:29 PM<@OP> !2000000
6:29 PM<@ObviousBot> Morningwood Timburrs: Invalid bid amount.
6:29 PM<@ObviousBot> 5 seconds remaining.
6:29 PM<@ObviousBot> SOLD: PURPLEDOOSH to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for 3000.

 

[Krubby]

it's cool to see myself being listed on there, dunno if i'm actually good enough to be in this tourney though. i'll be a mascot how about that.

 

[PD]

I'm stupid and won't stop posting even when macle says not to

 

[Star]

In my defense, everyone else at the time was either afk or out of money for spending 20+ on spl'ers...otherwise i wouldve went for a solid double digit amount o≥o

lol no

 

[sam-testings]

uh so lets have some actual discussion. What are people thoughts on bo3 for DPP and possibly other tiers?

 

[Cheryl.]

So did I get drafted or not? Like, if I didn't that's fine, it's totally fine

 

[TruSwagblu]

So did I get drafted or not? Like, if I didn't that's fine, it's totally fine

Oh, the actually draft isn't happening for about two more weeks probably. All the logs in this thread are from mock drafts done for fun, practice, etc.

 

[tcr]

If we're doing Bo3 then it should be for all tiers. Pokemon is luck based as it is, but DPP isn't exactly RBY levels of luck (nor are any other latter generations). People complain about "matchup" and "not knowing what the entire team is" when the only matchup you might have is a poor lead, and not knowing what the full team is is missing the entire point of no preview. I'm sure almost all notable dpp players (notably kumiho, vp if he signs up, nails, heysup) can agree that knowing what mons your opponent might have in the back is absolutely essential to playing the tier.

BW is arguably wayyy more matchup based than dpp is, with the classic "rock paper scissors" style of play, and imo ORAS is even more matchup based, with literally every pokemon bar full tanks having the ability to just straight up sweep if one thing is not in the team or removed (especially with threats like snivy, skrelp, fletch, mienfoo, scraggy, cm spritz, diglett, drilbur, timburr, drifloon, pawniard, magnemite, shellder, tirtouga, abra, gastly, carvanha, etc etc). I'm all in favor of making every single tier Bo3. IMO it makes lcpl less competitive if its bo1, as all it takes is one unlucky burn, freeze, para, or just straight up not having an answer to Snviy or Skrelp or some other form of mon that isn't immediately accounted for in teambuilding. Bo3 also encourages creativity in building, and gives people more matches to watch throughout the week, and the only con i can think of is that it might take more time to complete battles, which lol is the weakest argument i have ever heard (like we're playing pokemon "competitively" its not like we all have super busy busy schedules where its hard to slot in an hour).

just my thoughts, its dumb to only make dpp bo3 when every other tier is arguably worse matchup wise

 

[Anthiese]

Krubby stop worrying so damn much goodness


This extends to everyone who wants to show they are worth it but knows they arent like some top player.

You can prove your worth to us but please just relax on trying to impress so much. Like I genuinely feel bad when I play people and win or lose I'm slightly obligated to toss their name up even though they might not be the best player. Unfortunately everyone wants to win. It's just the nature of a tournament. So managers wanna pick good players/teambuilders who will help carry their team to victory. I'll go ahead and say it, you're all not getting drafted. Even still you do have a chance to show that you could be of worth to a team. But you dont have to force yourself on us so damn hard. I'm sorry to all those I've been snide to over this but it becomes extremely annoying and frustrating to have 20 people who havent been around LC before LCPL was announced stating how good they are and demanding i play the most recent meta WHICH WE ALL SHOULD KNOW HOW TO PLAY or they say they can play it all to seem more appealing but really they are being ghosted with someone elses team.

So in short, stop being so desperate. Show your worth when you're asked to. and above all else just be cool.

If you dont make it, you have a year to chill with us and learn how to LC and grow as a player.

Who knows, you'll prolly improve more than you know.

 

[Nudisto]

Krubby stop worrying so damn much goodness


This extends to everyone who wants to show they are worth it but knows they arent like some top player.

You can prove your worth to us but please just relax on trying to impress so much. Like I genuinely feel bad when I play people and win or lose I'm slightly obligated to toss their name up even though they might not be the best player. Unfortunately everyone wants to win. It's just the nature of a tournament. So managers wanna pick good players/teambuilders who will help carry their team to victory. I'll go ahead and say it, you're all not getting drafted. Even still you do have a chance to show that you could be of worth to a team. But you dont have to force yourself on us so damn hard. I'm sorry to all those I've been snide to over this but it becomes extremely annoying and frustrating to have 20 people who havent been around LC before LCPL was announced stating how good they are and demanding i play the most recent meta WHICH WE ALL SHOULD KNOW HOW TO PLAY or they say they can play it all to seem more appealing but really they are being ghosted with someone elses team.

So in short, stop being so desperate. Show your worth when you're asked to. and above all else just be cool.

If you dont make it, you have a year to chill with us and learn how to LC and grow as a player.

Who knows, you'll prolly improve more than you know.

Or just be inactive for a year like me last lcpl and just be funny in your signup post

 

[macle]

im buying krubby whether she likes it or not

 

[Merritt]

I'll go ahead and say it, you're all not getting drafted.

;_;

But on the Bo3 thing, nah especially in a team tournament like this.

 

[Krubby]

im buying krubby whether she likes it or not

thank you macle

 

[Rumor]

if we do a bo3 then i'll rampage

do you know how hard it is for me to win one game, let alone anotha one

its impossible

its like trying to have a romantic relationship with a fork

 

[Heysup]

If we're doing Bo3 then it should be for all tiers. Pokemon is luck based as it is, but DPP isn't exactly RBY levels of luck (nor are any other latter generations). People complain about "matchup" and "not knowing what the entire team is" when the only matchup you might have is a poor lead, and not knowing what the full team is is missing the entire point of no preview. I'm sure almost all notable dpp players (notably kumiho, vp if he signs up, nails, heysup) can agree that knowing what mons your opponent might have in the back is absolutely essential to playing the tier.

BW is arguably wayyy more matchup based than dpp is, with the classic "rock paper scissors" style of play, and imo ORAS is even more matchup based, with literally every pokemon bar full tanks having the ability to just straight up sweep if one thing is not in the team or removed (especially with threats like snivy, skrelp, fletch, mienfoo, scraggy, cm spritz, diglett, drilbur, timburr, drifloon, pawniard, magnemite, shellder, tirtouga, abra, gastly, carvanha, etc etc). I'm all in favor of making every single tier Bo3. IMO it makes lcpl less competitive if its bo1, as all it takes is one unlucky burn, freeze, para, or just straight up not having an answer to Snviy or Skrelp or some other form of mon that isn't immediately accounted for in teambuilding. Bo3 also encourages creativity in building, and gives people more matches to watch throughout the week, and the only con i can think of is that it might take more time to complete battles, which lol is the weakest argument i have ever heard (like we're playing pokemon "competitively" its not like we all have super busy busy schedules where its hard to slot in an hour).

just my thoughts, its dumb to only make dpp bo3 when every other tier is arguably worse matchup wise

I don't want DPP to be compared to RBY levels of hax, I want it to be bo3 for an entirely different (and tbh more valid) reason: the games are short. While you think it's a weak "con" to argue that's why nothing else should be, I think you'll agree that any semblance of that con disappears in DPP. Plus, that con is more related to other tiers being "too long" (which I think is weak) versus this one where the games are "too short" - we need to increase the amount of time we're playing this legendary tier.

While I agree BW is garbage and DPP is not more luck based (as in, you can actually potentially play around/build around modest hax more than in other tiers due to the nature of it being about revenge killing), the problem with DPP bo1 is that even the longest DPP game takes a short amount of turns. The reason it's such a great tier is that it's fast-paced and you know 2-3 good plays and the games over.

Bo3 is purely a "flavor" change, it's not to compensate for hax or anything like that. 3 DPP games probably take about the same amount of time as a BW game. I mean I'm always a proponent of bo3 everything, but I think we should at least start by agreeing with DPP's increase.

EDIT: this is meaning to say, let's address the issue at hand (DPP bo3) not everything - that can be a next step if we want.

 

[Shrug]

i'm here supporting bo3 everything:

lc isn't a tier with more commonplace luck than any other tier, but luck is a part of mons, and bo3 at least mitigates that somewhat. bo3 indisputably better in this regard - more games tends to reduce overall variance.

When i was a rookie, i took in a lot of games, high-level ones, to try to get better. u watch and u learn. i did the same with spl this year (although i watched Sken 's game just to cheer for bae) and wanted more, so i watched the spl games from spl 5 (econ is boring). lcpl is not quite (lol) as high-level, but it's still, for a lot of lc users, especially those on ps, an aspirational target as well as often a taste of a level of play maybe a step up. increasing the game count is good for them and by extension the community as a whole

The counterarguments tend to revolve around the practical superseding the idealistic. First: bo3 takes too much time to physically play. It takes more time - this is indisputable. However, i would contend it is not "too much". I feel one can whip through three games in an hour max? and most have an hour carved out in which to play, or a twenty and a 45 min segment at diff times, etc. See ThatCrazyRussian 's post for more shit here. The other counterargument is preparation time - more games means more teams. This seems more salient to me as a concern. It's hard to create nine (?) original teams in a week per team, because it's commonplace for building duties to be shared. What i would hope happens is old teams are revised and improved - cting for 9 games a week is nearly impossible and just a retarded use of time. idk.

I guess this is a case of me being an idealist over a pragmatist. Im unsure if thats good or bad. but bo3 errythng please

 

[Nudisto]

Personally, I think BO1 is a big part of what makes SPL exciting. It makes the battles tense. I think it would be too time consuming for some of us who already have to build teams for other tours every week and have real life responsibilities. The johning would be so real with bo3. I don't know enough about DPP so it could be better for just that. But I don't like BO for 3 everything. And this is coming from someone who got haxxed to shit twice last season.

 

[Star]

there's literally no way ur making me build 3 ORAS teams a week lol.

 

[mad0ka]

yeah even though i'm not playing this lcpl, i just want to say that having to build 3 ORAS teams a weak would be way too strenuous and time consuming. i mean if you're in high school and just go home everyday after like 3pm, sure it's doable, but when you have a job/are a university student/just other obligations then it's really not feasible and i would hate to see a bo3 implemented for everything

 

[macle]

you guys cant even get 1 battle done a week, why would we change it to 3?

 

[Sken]

The issue doesn't consist in not having enough time to play. If that was the only issue I'd rather support bo3 just because it means that I would play 2 or 3 games each week and I enjoy playing this game. The problem is preparing a team. You already need some time to scout your opponent a little bit if you're gonna care enough about the tour, and then build a solid team around that, which already takes some time, and no way people are going to build 3 teams a week, because 1) you spend way too much time and 2) people will start getting tired of this and will end not taking this seriously. I know where you guys are coming from but I can't support it.

Also if your opponent is somebody like OP you'll take months to get 3 games done.

 

[Heysup]

mad0ka and macle

speak for your muthafuckin selves.

I guess here is where I sound like a dick but: I'm probably busier or as busy than anyone involved and I always find time to build/play matches. It does not take that long. I think we need to dispel the myth that people don't play because they're busy because that's generally just a bullshit disguise for either a) lack of interest, b) laziness, c) both.

I think there also could be an opportunity for agreement between players one way or the other. As in, the DPP game will be presumed to be bo3 and then they can agree to make it bo1 if they can't be bothered to build/play. Or it could be presumed the opposite.

Sken The reason the week format works with bo3 is that johns can't actually john for very long.

I mean I think Bo3 for DPP alone is fair and not time consuming at all.

But I would rather be discussing DPP bo3 first and not let it be derailed by strawman "lets bo3 everything" arguments.

 

[infamy]

pokemon is luck based? yes it is but it's already our 5th LC premier league and we never had a fkin bo3. spl had 7 seasons and bo3 just on the 6th one for the most luck based tier. NU has 1 bo3 spot in its 2nd. UU has no bo3 spots. we literally have no reason to do it bo3 bros, it's pokemon..

better late than never.

i vote bo3 in dpp too.

 

[mad0ka]

Heysup

I really disagree with you on this. School is very time consuming, it's why I went from always being on Showdown during high school to maybe on sometime during the weekends. I'm definitely not alone in this; Rowan dropped being TL for similar reasons. Sure, some people don't play just because they're lazy and don't feel like building until the end of the week, but it makes me really irked that you say that school/work are bullshit reasons. Sorry that I'm trying to get two degrees, maintain a high GPA, all the while maintain involvement on campus in order to make myself more appealing for graduate schools later on. This is not a bullshit disguise for a lack of interest and/or laziness; I genuinely do not have time, and others I know for sure are definitely in the same boat. To quote you yourself, "speak for your muthafuckin sel[f]".

 

[Vubon]

Bo3's oras would be time consuming but would be super cool and competitive but yeah its mandatory in dpp.