except for the part where armor seals on average leave you with a hella lot more health after your jungle run
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League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??
- Thread starter Thorns
- Start date
Did you not see where I said Armor seals are necessary for jungling or are you just not reading things on purpose?
hahahah the new fiddle skin
it like shoots rainbow beams and weird rainbow crowstorm flowers
im pretty sure im EXACTLY gay enough for this skin buying it as soon as I get on
also to comment on some other things mentioned recently since i havent commented much lately between school and pokemon and such:
Solomid vs. Mobafire: Honestly, I think anyone who just assumes a guide is better because of the site it is on is fooling themselves. Obviously, Mobafire is aimed a little more toward people with less experience which is evidenced by how overdone most of their guides are(which still encompasses almost everyone posting in this topic, I'm sure) compared to the Solomid guides, but unless you're just checking the guide to copy a build -- which is usually game specific anyway -- Mobafire has a lot more info for people looking to learn champions for the first time. It is also much better at the general game guide thing, which Solomid didn't even start doing until like two months ago. Where I am now as a player I check Solomid first every time but it isn't because of the sitename so much as because there's so many fewer pros writing so much less for Mobafire... but I think it's very champion specific. There's a handful of junglers where say Saintvicious has a more updated guide on Mobafire than TheOddOne does on Solomid, which kind of negates the reason most people check Solomid to begin with, and there's a few random heroes where I know Hotshot and Elementz have written guides that don't have a pro-written guide on Solomid either. I'm kind of rambling here, but there's a lot of champions where I like Solomid better and at least a few where I like the guides on Mobafire better and when I was learning the game I almost always liked Mobafire better. Both good resources and worth checking when you're taking up a hero.
Armor vs. Dodge: I'd take Dodge over Armor basically any time I can reliably get away with it(Jungle GP is not one of those champions, even with a full page of armor runes he gets really low jungling relative to other jungles and is vulnerable to getting ganked because of it. Don't embarrassingly get ganked by the double golems or whatever the fuck because you run out of health jungling), either with a bruiser top or more often in the jungle. Dodge is really strong on the champions that wind up being main damage soaks late game since the mitigation from Armor seals become really marginal compared to the armor/health you build from items compared to Dodge but most importantly you get those Nimbleness procs(which obviously you should be taking any time you're using Dodge seals... which also hurts GP since he tends to want to use an Offense/Utility build) to help you stick on targets. Basically every one who'd use Dodge is a melee unit and that extra speed boost to catch up to annoying carries and their Phantom Dancers is really helpful... it's not something you can do on everyone but it's pretty fantastic on a lot of heroes. I play a lot of Udyr so I'm a little biased but yeah, Dodge is pretty amazing.
Tear: Tear of the Goddess is terrible and those of you supporting it should feel terrible. Honestly in the cases of most of the AD carries that were briefly mentioned in reference to it and Manamune in this topic I vaguely wonder if just buying 2 or 3 mana pots the first back and then making a more standard build wouldn't have almost the same effect in regards to enabling poke, since mana issues tend to be largely mitigated late in the game, anyway, and you'd have to back again to actually do anything with the bonus mana you're getting from sources other than Sapphire Crystal with the Manamune/Tear route, anyway. Obviously, that'd take significantly less gold investment away from rushing Bloodthirster/IE/PD. But at least it's good on Ryze. And kind of Anivia.
Hasn't been mentioned much but @Graves: I'm not certain I agree he's quite as good as he is on say Elementz' tier list right now, but I think he's easily the best champion on-release since Orianna. I feel like if E or W were longer/bigger he'd certainly be a little more OP than he feels, but unless people are retarded and cuddle you and take multiple hits from each Q his damage doesn't feel as out of control to me as it is being made out to be. He's certainly at least competitive for the best AD carry with Kog and Cait but I'm seeing him as probably the fourth most popular ban right now(maybe even third) to Akali, Talon, and Lee Sin, and I'd say that's an overestimation of his abilities. Really fun toolset though, even if they tone down the damage some I think he'll stay really enjoyable.
it like shoots rainbow beams and weird rainbow crowstorm flowers
im pretty sure im EXACTLY gay enough for this skin buying it as soon as I get on
also to comment on some other things mentioned recently since i havent commented much lately between school and pokemon and such:
Solomid vs. Mobafire: Honestly, I think anyone who just assumes a guide is better because of the site it is on is fooling themselves. Obviously, Mobafire is aimed a little more toward people with less experience which is evidenced by how overdone most of their guides are(which still encompasses almost everyone posting in this topic, I'm sure) compared to the Solomid guides, but unless you're just checking the guide to copy a build -- which is usually game specific anyway -- Mobafire has a lot more info for people looking to learn champions for the first time. It is also much better at the general game guide thing, which Solomid didn't even start doing until like two months ago. Where I am now as a player I check Solomid first every time but it isn't because of the sitename so much as because there's so many fewer pros writing so much less for Mobafire... but I think it's very champion specific. There's a handful of junglers where say Saintvicious has a more updated guide on Mobafire than TheOddOne does on Solomid, which kind of negates the reason most people check Solomid to begin with, and there's a few random heroes where I know Hotshot and Elementz have written guides that don't have a pro-written guide on Solomid either. I'm kind of rambling here, but there's a lot of champions where I like Solomid better and at least a few where I like the guides on Mobafire better and when I was learning the game I almost always liked Mobafire better. Both good resources and worth checking when you're taking up a hero.
Armor vs. Dodge: I'd take Dodge over Armor basically any time I can reliably get away with it(Jungle GP is not one of those champions, even with a full page of armor runes he gets really low jungling relative to other jungles and is vulnerable to getting ganked because of it. Don't embarrassingly get ganked by the double golems or whatever the fuck because you run out of health jungling), either with a bruiser top or more often in the jungle. Dodge is really strong on the champions that wind up being main damage soaks late game since the mitigation from Armor seals become really marginal compared to the armor/health you build from items compared to Dodge but most importantly you get those Nimbleness procs(which obviously you should be taking any time you're using Dodge seals... which also hurts GP since he tends to want to use an Offense/Utility build) to help you stick on targets. Basically every one who'd use Dodge is a melee unit and that extra speed boost to catch up to annoying carries and their Phantom Dancers is really helpful... it's not something you can do on everyone but it's pretty fantastic on a lot of heroes. I play a lot of Udyr so I'm a little biased but yeah, Dodge is pretty amazing.
Tear: Tear of the Goddess is terrible and those of you supporting it should feel terrible. Honestly in the cases of most of the AD carries that were briefly mentioned in reference to it and Manamune in this topic I vaguely wonder if just buying 2 or 3 mana pots the first back and then making a more standard build wouldn't have almost the same effect in regards to enabling poke, since mana issues tend to be largely mitigated late in the game, anyway, and you'd have to back again to actually do anything with the bonus mana you're getting from sources other than Sapphire Crystal with the Manamune/Tear route, anyway. Obviously, that'd take significantly less gold investment away from rushing Bloodthirster/IE/PD. But at least it's good on Ryze. And kind of Anivia.
Hasn't been mentioned much but @Graves: I'm not certain I agree he's quite as good as he is on say Elementz' tier list right now, but I think he's easily the best champion on-release since Orianna. I feel like if E or W were longer/bigger he'd certainly be a little more OP than he feels, but unless people are retarded and cuddle you and take multiple hits from each Q his damage doesn't feel as out of control to me as it is being made out to be. He's certainly at least competitive for the best AD carry with Kog and Cait but I'm seeing him as probably the fourth most popular ban right now(maybe even third) to Akali, Talon, and Lee Sin, and I'd say that's an overestimation of his abilities. Really fun toolset though, even if they tone down the damage some I think he'll stay really enjoyable.
Apologies, I must have skipped over it somehow.
On a side note Nocturne is a very strong jungler but I'm having trouble deciding when to build tanky (Wriggles into Youmuu's into Atmog's) or when to build more offensive (Wriggles into Youmuu's into BF Sword into probably I-Edge then QSS).
Not even considering the Nimbleness mastery, Dodge seals are "always" better than Armor unless you're jungling. They very quickly scale to better mitigate auto-attack damage (Armor is better very early), granted not every AD champion is a pure right-clicker but (1) the vast majority are and (2) even the ones that aren't do some auto-attacking. I say "always" because it's perfectly reasonable to run Armor against AD casters in lane: Garen, Talon, Urgot are all very strong laners and running Dodge runes won't stop them from bullying you at all. Dodge will still probably help you more late-game, where your lane opponent is no longer the only obstacle and now bot lane Kog'maw and Udyr out of the jungle are also gunning for you in team fights. Dodge mitigates far more damage, not to mention avoids Bear stuns and on-hit slow procs like a boss.
also I like Surprise Fiddle more after seeing Synre play it a couple games and hearing the whoop-whoop-whoop sound they added to his Drain-slash-party favor. 8) From what I've heard, the availability of the skin nor its 975 price will be temporary, placing it firmly in the "Frostfire Annie" tier of skins, arguably legendary-worthy with the amount of work put in but without the legendary price tag.
But for the most part, you're just making fallacious statements and attacking straw men. Rather, you simply forgot one very important point about Manamune that makes your argument pointless: Manamune gives you 27 AD on its own bonus mana, mid-40's including your base Mana at Level 18... but it also gives a flat 20 AD! That's how you can end up with 70+ AD total from the item, kind of an important omission since it's the difference between being a slightly bigger BF Sword (that gives you infinite mana) and being a much bigger BF Sword that is also 20% more gold-efficient (and still gives you infinite mana).
Cost-efficiency doesn't mean anything to a carry? It doesn't matter what role you're playing, the fact is that most games end before anybody can accumulate more than 12-14k gold (rough guesstimate). It's very rare for anybody to actually "complete" a build with 5-6 endgame items (depending whether or not you count boots) and as such, I would have to disagree that cost-efficiency doesn't matter. Madred's Bloodrazor? You better believe it's the best DPS item in the game against full-build Level 18 champions. But nobody buys it ever. (A slight exaggeration.) Why? Because it's a ridiculously inefficient use of gold until you're 45 minutes in. (IE is cool though, since its added DPS isn't scalar.) At the opposite end of the spectrum, Wit's End melts faces with its ridiculous efficiency, costing slightly more than a BF Sword for what is basically a BF Sword with 40% AS and a ton of MR tacked on. It's a popular rush item for many bruisers and a core item for on-hit builds (e.g. Kog'maw). It's not really an end-game item but rarely does a game ever go so long that you're throwing away 600g by selling it back. Well, Manamune is the BF Sword that grants infinite mana with 40% more AD. It's not perfect, not every champion can effectively build the bonus mana and the Tear is weak when you first buy it, but I reckon there's really ridiculous at all about buying Manamune on more than just Yorick/Blitzcrank.
Even late-game, the mana might be less useful but it isn't useless. Recalling has an opportunity cost too, you know, and it's your map positioning that's at stake. Pushing lanes is faster and safer when you use spells to speed up the act, which you can't do if you're worried about conserving it for when enemies contest. Extended poke wars around turrets or Baron work in your favor now, so long as your team comp isn't grossly outclassed in the poke dept. to begin with, and you'll never find yourself out of mana in the middle of any teamfight that does go down. (And please don't act like nobody has ever run out of mana in a teamfight.)
also I like Surprise Fiddle more after seeing Synre play it a couple games and hearing the whoop-whoop-whoop sound they added to his Drain-slash-party favor. 8) From what I've heard, the availability of the skin nor its 975 price will be temporary, placing it firmly in the "Frostfire Annie" tier of skins, arguably legendary-worthy with the amount of work put in but without the legendary price tag.
I never said anywhere that Tear would be a good item for Ashe in particular, it was just an example of where having mana available is pretty important because that's a very common scenario for Ashe to be in while you're laning through Levels 6-10 or so. Volley more than 4-5 times total and you can forget about ever casting ECA until you recall again. Heaven forbid you ever need to Volley the creeps to keep your tower from being pushed too hard with your shitty laning phase champion, try to support a failed gank, or threaten to zone if you gain the advantage...
But for the most part, you're just making fallacious statements and attacking straw men. Rather, you simply forgot one very important point about Manamune that makes your argument pointless: Manamune gives you 27 AD on its own bonus mana, mid-40's including your base Mana at Level 18... but it also gives a flat 20 AD! That's how you can end up with 70+ AD total from the item, kind of an important omission since it's the difference between being a slightly bigger BF Sword (that gives you infinite mana) and being a much bigger BF Sword that is also 20% more gold-efficient (and still gives you infinite mana).
Cost-efficiency doesn't mean anything to a carry? It doesn't matter what role you're playing, the fact is that most games end before anybody can accumulate more than 12-14k gold (rough guesstimate). It's very rare for anybody to actually "complete" a build with 5-6 endgame items (depending whether or not you count boots) and as such, I would have to disagree that cost-efficiency doesn't matter. Madred's Bloodrazor? You better believe it's the best DPS item in the game against full-build Level 18 champions. But nobody buys it ever. (A slight exaggeration.) Why? Because it's a ridiculously inefficient use of gold until you're 45 minutes in. (IE is cool though, since its added DPS isn't scalar.) At the opposite end of the spectrum, Wit's End melts faces with its ridiculous efficiency, costing slightly more than a BF Sword for what is basically a BF Sword with 40% AS and a ton of MR tacked on. It's a popular rush item for many bruisers and a core item for on-hit builds (e.g. Kog'maw). It's not really an end-game item but rarely does a game ever go so long that you're throwing away 600g by selling it back. Well, Manamune is the BF Sword that grants infinite mana with 40% more AD. It's not perfect, not every champion can effectively build the bonus mana and the Tear is weak when you first buy it, but I reckon there's really ridiculous at all about buying Manamune on more than just Yorick/Blitzcrank.
Even late-game, the mana might be less useful but it isn't useless. Recalling has an opportunity cost too, you know, and it's your map positioning that's at stake. Pushing lanes is faster and safer when you use spells to speed up the act, which you can't do if you're worried about conserving it for when enemies contest. Extended poke wars around turrets or Baron work in your favor now, so long as your team comp isn't grossly outclassed in the poke dept. to begin with, and you'll never find yourself out of mana in the middle of any teamfight that does go down. (And please don't act like nobody has ever run out of mana in a teamfight.)
literally the worst item in the game and you're dogging me for calling Manamune an underrated item? :(
Why do you keep comparing it to a BF Sword? Last time I checked, no final builds include BF Swords. IE adds crit damage in addition to more AD than Manamune, while Bloodthirster gives you 100 AD in only a few minutes. You may not always get 5-6 items in game, but we're talking core items here. You can rush a Bloodthirster or IE with boots within 15 minutes. You cannot max out Manamune in that time. Getting those core items when your ad carry is weakest allows you to accelerate your end game. Manamune is weak early game and it is weak late game.
Comparing Manamune to the BF Sword should really be the kicker here. IE and BT already edge out the Black Cleaver in that market by a wide margin. Both are better than Manamune at every stage of the game. Two of my three most played characters, Urgot and Blitzcrank, both use Manamune. I used to use Tear on more characters, then I learned to conserve my mana and never went back. Manamune just doesn't have the oomph of even, well, even a BF Sword. I come back to lane with my first BF Sword and I'm about to wreck my opponent. It's a spike in DPS, while Manamune is a slow and tedious climb.
As for late game mana, again, every character by late game will have a mana pool that allows them quite a bit of leeway. Yes, even champs with bad starting pools. Ashe gains 27 mana every time she levels up, and Volley never even goes up in mana cost. Annie gains 50 mana per level, while her farming spell only goes up 15 in cost 4 times. So you can push, and you can poke, and you'll still have mana for team fights. And no, it's not like a person never is OOM at a bad time, but you can alleviate this through mana conservation and no money spent.
Comparing Manamune to the BF Sword should really be the kicker here. IE and BT already edge out the Black Cleaver in that market by a wide margin. Both are better than Manamune at every stage of the game. Two of my three most played characters, Urgot and Blitzcrank, both use Manamune. I used to use Tear on more characters, then I learned to conserve my mana and never went back. Manamune just doesn't have the oomph of even, well, even a BF Sword. I come back to lane with my first BF Sword and I'm about to wreck my opponent. It's a spike in DPS, while Manamune is a slow and tedious climb.
As for late game mana, again, every character by late game will have a mana pool that allows them quite a bit of leeway. Yes, even champs with bad starting pools. Ashe gains 27 mana every time she levels up, and Volley never even goes up in mana cost. Annie gains 50 mana per level, while her farming spell only goes up 15 in cost 4 times. So you can push, and you can poke, and you'll still have mana for team fights. And no, it's not like a person never is OOM at a bad time, but you can alleviate this through mana conservation and no money spent.
I'd only build tear on like corki for the manamune, blitz, kassadin(mana problems), and maybe orianna(bad mana problems). On all ad carries, rushing IE is usually a lot better than manamune (except maybe corki).
If I want to troll around as zilean I might go tear->deathcap->stack AA staves but in most cases the tear isnt all that good. Usually rushing deathcap/RoA is better than tear and rushing AA staff is dumb on everyone anyway.
If I want to troll around as zilean I might go tear->deathcap->stack AA staves but in most cases the tear isnt all that good. Usually rushing deathcap/RoA is better than tear and rushing AA staff is dumb on everyone anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMF6sTQ7dLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZDWl9qyBF8&feature=relmfu
I'm just gonna leave these here cause it made my night, and I'm sure everyone in this thread has been through this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZDWl9qyBF8&feature=relmfu
I'm just gonna leave these here cause it made my night, and I'm sure everyone in this thread has been through this.
huh? didn't they just nerf the damage a bit, lower the set-up time before it can activate and rise it's shooting range? how does that make him a no-trick pony?
i'm a little worried about the future of ap shaco then
will 6 stacked boxes at blue still be able to kill the entire camp? the world may never know
will 6 stacked boxes at blue still be able to kill the entire camp? the world may never know
I like Gangplank so far but I haven't been doing so hot. I'm 3-2 but I haven't really had an impact on any of the games other than some well placed ARRRRs (geddit.) I also tend to feed a bit. I blame this on over-aggressive lanemates though. Does no one know how to last hit? Laned with an Ashe who went like 0-18 and AA'd the minions the entire time preventing me from getting ANY CS. I've also had some nasty lane opponents. Fucking Poppy and Tristiana a lot and I hate them. I'm 10+ games over .500. Shouldn't I have a decent normal ranking?
How are you playing him? I am pretty sure that you mean lane, so I have to say that probably the most important thing to do with him is last hit religiously with your Q. The amount of bonus gold is one of the primary reasons that you always, without fail, max it first on laneplank. You need farm more than any other champ in your lane, take it. You need that Triforce, and after that, you really have almost enough damage right there. For your start, what do you run? I use the probably shitty brawler's-pots into avarice then sheen then triforce build, which works really well. Crits in lane can do crazy damage. I have killed champs so many times because my Q crits and does way more than they expected.