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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon
- Thread starter BriarRose
- Start date
geeta's champion team is specially frustrating because much like alder had volcarona, she could have had an emblematic, incredibly rare pokémon on her team that isn't a pseudo or even intimidating-looking - the top champion of paldea having a gholdengo would have set her apart from other champions in both lore and gameplay.
palafin and gholdengo over veluza and one of gogoat/avalugg, with gholdengo as the ace and palafin as a fake-lead that immediately flip turns to glimmora (or espathra), would already make her team so much better. missed opportunity.
palafin and gholdengo over veluza and one of gogoat/avalugg, with gholdengo as the ace and palafin as a fake-lead that immediately flip turns to glimmora (or espathra), would already make her team so much better. missed opportunity.
Castersvarog
formerly Maronmario
Geeta wouldn't have a Palafin because evolving Finizen requires having friends.
This is the revised Geeta team that's been floating in my mind for a while. Literally just a bunch of rare and powerful Paldean mons combined with a Grass/Fire/Water core. If anything, I'm more bothered by Geeta not using Pokemon used by other champions. Nemona, for example, has a Goodra and Lycanroc-Day, which were used by Diantha, Kukui, and Mustard for example. Garchomp is used by nobody notable despite Rika and Hassel possibly using it, is not a version exclusive, and is popular, but I guess Veluza and Espathra being sidelined by Crabominable and Florges in gym battles means they're free for Geeta to use.
I’d just prefer if the Champion of the region at least, had a team entirely made up of Pokemon from that Gen, like Blue, Cynthia and Alder. Even if they have cross-gen evos or regional forms - thats fine too.
It just would feel more right for me, like “this is the top trainer in the region, who has mastered all the new Pokemon”.
It just would feel more right for me, like “this is the top trainer in the region, who has mastered all the new Pokemon”.
Blue and Alder were in regions whose dexes only had Pokemon from that current generation(Blue because the first 151 Pokemon were the ONLY Pokemon at that time, and Alder because BW1 made Gen I-IV Pokemon post-game and/or Dream World only). And Cynthia had Milotic, a Gen III Pokemon.
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If we decide to be nice and count megas Diantha gets to join the club: Goodra, Gourgeist, Tyrantrum, Aurorus, Hawlucha and then Mega Gardevoir
I was going to extend that out to regional forms and G-Maxes but Kukui, Hau (USUM) and Leon but I forgot they all have other gen Pokemon.
You know just occurred to me Lance is the only champion, within a "premiere" game (ie: obviously Lets Go Trace isn't using any gen 7 pokemon, Volo has his own thing going on though if we count regional forms we can sneak in Hisuian Arcanine as a gen 8 rep, FRLG Blue won't be pulling out any 3rd gens, etc), that doesn't use any Pokemon from his generation. Even if Kingdra was deemed off limits, there were still some draconic/lizard/dinosaur pokemon wandering around Johto you know? Ah...gen 2....
I was going to extend that out to regional forms and G-Maxes but Kukui, Hau (USUM) and Leon but I forgot they all have other gen Pokemon.
You know just occurred to me Lance is the only champion, within a "premiere" game (ie: obviously Lets Go Trace isn't using any gen 7 pokemon, Volo has his own thing going on though if we count regional forms we can sneak in Hisuian Arcanine as a gen 8 rep, FRLG Blue won't be pulling out any 3rd gens, etc), that doesn't use any Pokemon from his generation. Even if Kingdra was deemed off limits, there were still some draconic/lizard/dinosaur pokemon wandering around Johto you know? Ah...gen 2....
I don't think the problem with Geeta is necessarily raw power, it's that she's not memorable. Her Glimmora is cool, and matches her design, but it doesn't stick in my head.
Blue had a team composed of some of the strongest mons in the game. Lance was standard awesome dragons. Wallace and Steven were both type specialists. Cynthia...oof, people are still traumatized by her. BW, the real champion is N whose storyline is half the point of the games. Diantha has the whole "movie genres" theming and also runs a bunch of potent mons. Kukui and Hau are more meh team-wise, relying on the storyline for each to be memorable. Leon leads with 3 broken-ass mons and then ends with GMax Charizard.
I'm not saying previous champions were perfect, don't get me wrong. But I could write out Blue or Diantha's teams on any given day and get 4/6 correct, despite significant time since playing the game. Geeta, the only reason I remember anything other than Glimmora is that we're discussing it right now.
Blue had a team composed of some of the strongest mons in the game. Lance was standard awesome dragons. Wallace and Steven were both type specialists. Cynthia...oof, people are still traumatized by her. BW, the real champion is N whose storyline is half the point of the games. Diantha has the whole "movie genres" theming and also runs a bunch of potent mons. Kukui and Hau are more meh team-wise, relying on the storyline for each to be memorable. Leon leads with 3 broken-ass mons and then ends with GMax Charizard.
I'm not saying previous champions were perfect, don't get me wrong. But I could write out Blue or Diantha's teams on any given day and get 4/6 correct, despite significant time since playing the game. Geeta, the only reason I remember anything other than Glimmora is that we're discussing it right now.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
People always suggest Tyranitar for Lance but I'm like... wouldn't that be far more appropriate for Karen? It's not like she's drowning in Dark-type options either.
And the counter to that might be "two pseudos in the E4 is too many" but I don't think that argument really holds water when the Hoenn, Unova, and Kanto (in FRLG) E4s all use more than one.
Lance getting Tyranitar was independent of whether Karen should get one.
Karen still annoys me with her Gengar. Elite Four members having one not-on-type Pokemon wasn't uncommon in the first couple gens, but unlike Agatha who literally did not have enough Ghost types for a team, Karen picks Gengar, a Pokemon that already appeared multiple times AND means she is passing over 1-2 Dark Types introduced that Gen (Sneasel is there even if they don't give her Tyranitar).
I'm not opposed to the type specialists having team members outside their type, even with stuff like Flint being a bit silly, but what bothers me with Karen is that we already had a major Gengar before here, Koga's a Poison Specialist if we need a fit, and Sneasel doesn't show up anywhere despite being available in Johto (see Houndoom)
I’ll be honest, I often forget about Wallace and Iris being champions completely. Changing them between the enhanced versions was just eh for me.
I still remember Hau cos well he was the rival. I was disappointed it wasn’t Kukui though, I really enjoyed seeing a proper professor battle.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Well yes but it's unlikely they'd both use one and, as I said, everyone always seems to say Lance should get it rather than Karen.
Sneasel was always associated with Silver and is specifically stated to be incredibly rare in Johto, so that was very much a deliberate choice. Same goes for Houndoom, which is used by the chief Rocket Admin.
Agree that Gengar was a lazy and redundant choice for Karen - I really liked her having a Vileplume, though, as it's a Pokemon that doesn't get used much (one of the Rocket Admins in GSC uses it and Erika does in some games, but otherwise it doesn't get a lot of exposure). In my ideal world she'd have had Umbreon/Murkrow/Vileplume/Houndoom/Tyranitar but if Tyranitar had to be off the table for whatever reason even something like Persian would have been a suitable choice - it learns a ton of Dark moves and has that whole sneaky/mean vibe going on that works too.
I feel it's a little bit of column A and B. On paper, Horde Trainer Battle felt like the next logical evolution of Horde Battles introduced in XY, and if any group was going to have a Horde Trainer Battle it would be the villain team who has legion of grunts and makes sense they would gang up on you if they could.
The problem of course came to balance. Sure, they could do Horde Battle with grunts no problem as they're always lower level... problem came with doing anything more. An Admin or the Boss? Battles with them are intended to be evenly matched (overleveling issue aside), but now add in 4 grunts on the "sideline" who are taking pot shots while you only have a single Pokemon out at a time. While certainly a multi-targeting Move would even the odds, there's no guarantee a player would be packing one of them. So, in the end, they decided to leave it to just the two grunt encounters, ones which were meant to be jokes but that's all they felt "safe" doing.
Two curiosities though:
1. An obvious "harder" Horde Trainer Battle would have been an Admin backed by 4 Grunts, but would there ever have been one instance with the boss? Would have been a neat post game challenge that you could challenge the team boss & admins in a Horde Trainer Battle with the Boss, the 2 Admins, and a male & female grunt. Heck, considering they made Inverse Battles its own little side activity, surprised they didn't do the same with Horde Trainer Battles; would have been fun to see what combinations would have come out from different Trainer Classes working all on a same team (and maybe even have a few planned ones which take advantage of unique strategies).
2. If they were planning more but scrapped it, when in development did they? I ask because it is odd they advertised it at all, which makes me wonder if it was a late decision. Not too late to change it, but too late to take it off marketing bullet points. I suppose they could have felt, even if it was for two mostly joke encounters, it was technically a "new mechanic" so worth mentioning.
In general I have issue when a Pokemon gets one of these "Powers up a specific category of Moves" yet that category Moves doesn't have one which is at least one of the Pokemon's Type:
Strong Jaw: Tyrunt Family & Chewtle Family. Which is odd, like you'd think the Dragon-type, with the limited amount of Moves they have, would have one of the things dragons (or at least dinosaurs) are fully capable of doing. And it's odd how they keep giving Strong Jaw to Rock-types (Hisuian Avalugg was just given it, though at least its part Ice so has Ice Fang) but yet haven't made a Rock biting Move (which, considering Rock's connection to Fossil Pokemon, I wouldn't think be difficult to do). And then we have the Water-types which get it, oh but there is a Water biting move... Dracovish's Signature Move which is tailored for it to be OP (though the solution to that would be either lowering Fishous Rend's Power (70 I feel is fair) or weakening its secondary effect (instead of doubling power is 1.5x)). Kicker is they did give the Chewtle family a biting Signature Move with Jaw Lock... but for some unfathomable reason made it Dark-type (they did this for quite a few Pokemon).
Iron Fist: Okay, I get Ledian gets it as a joke... though the issue when doing a joke like this is it only really "works" in the Gen its done for. Haha, in Gen V Ledian gets the punching power-up Ability even though it has weak punches!... AND now we've moved onto Gen VI, are we planning on doing anything with that? If not, jokes over, change it to something which Ledian could at least use. Or, if you insist on not changing it, maybe give it a Signature Move which works with the Ability and Ledian's stats, a Bug-type punching Move which uses its Special Defense stat for damage calculation (since its said Ledian can land many hits make it a multi-hit Move too, like Triple Axel or Population Bomb). Also, while the Golett family does get Shadow Punch... wouldn't mind if they got a better punching STAB as well; hopefully they get Headlong Rush.
Mega Launcher: So only Water-types so far get Mega Launcher and their STAB is the 60 Power Water Pulse. And I still say Lucario should get Mega Launcher; I don't care if people more use it a Physical Attacker than Special, the Ability powers-up aura/wave Moves so naturally the aura/wave Pokemon should get it (how about this compromise: give Lucario a Signature Move which is a Physical Aura Move: Aura Spear).
So just checked the Japanese word and there's no word play I noticed.
I think what R_N said is maybe more on target. The Pokemon is adapting to the situation by making itself (aka its STAB) move powerful. It's an odd way of presenting that idea, "Adeptness" is definitely more fitting in what it does, but as seen with the Pokemon chosen they had the idea of it being powering-up its natural talents via adapting to any situation its in.
If only we had a side Pokemon game showing how that could be done...
I get why people wanted Primal Kyogre to become part Electric so that Groudon could do SE damage on Kyogre... but I feel this would actually take away from the Sea Vs Land theme. Like it or not, it makes sense Kyogre would have an advantage over Groudon; not only is the surface of the planet covered by more water than land, but H2O water is also a special element as its essential for life on worlds that are or based on Earth. If it were not for water, Earth would be a lifeless rock like most other planets (and I say most because there are planets made of gas & ice, which are also mostly if not all completely lifeless). Sea & Land are "equal" not because of Type relation of their Pokemon embodiments, they're equal because both are essential for life to exist (as we know it) and disturbing/empowering one would destroy everything.
Yes, some aquatic animals can generate electricity... but more of them are poisonous (and it glowing doesn't mean it has electrical power, its just bioluminescent). Yes, Kyogre can learn Electric-type Moves, but I think that more has to do with it able to summon storms.
Though in exchange their Primal Abilities address this with Groudon's completely nullifying Kyogre's (making the area too hot for water vapor to clump together) while Kyogre's only affects Fire while Ground remains unaffected (it can make the air too humid for a fire to light, but it can't do nothing to stop land from existing and moving around).
Anyway, I do agree that, if they every bring back Mega Evolutions, it would be best if Rayquaza had to hold the "Jade Orb/Meteorite" to do so. I get the wanting to do something different, and keeping it to a 680 Legendary which are always usually banned from things make sense to do it with, but it just proved to be too overpowered as the "Move restriction" wasn't really that much of a restriction when Rayquaza gladly would have a Flying-type Close Combat.
Don't think we need to get complicated with Kyurem as you suggested. Yes, it's odd of all Moves they chose Scary Face to be the one which it replaces the Fusion Moves with, but I like that it does at least allow Kyurem to have a choice to have Glaciate in its fuses forms and keep Ice Burn & Freeze Shock in its unfused form. Personally I would have chosen Harden to reference unfused Kyurem filling its missing part with ice armor, but I can sort of see why they also chosen Scary Face considering the lore with it and Lacunosa Town.
Like your idea for improving and making Teravolt & Turboblaze different. Would be worried your suggestions would be a bit OP. Like in my suggestions I just added that (Teravolt has Electric-type moves & Freeze Shock)/(Turboblaze has Fire-type moves & Ice Burn) bypass Protect & its variants, Reflect, Light Screen, Safeguard, & Aurora Veil. Keeping with the idea the Abilities just allow their attacks to go unstopped by certain Abilities, but also adds a special benefit to Moves of their Type to go even further unstopped by certain Moves.
Finally I agree Glaciate should be stronger (not sure about halving the Fusion Moves; I'd rather drop that and make Glaciate 100% Accurate).
(Sorry for responding to these late, only just now realized I hadn't been keeping up with this thread; catch up with Page 535 and 536 tomorrow)
Actual talk I do prefer this handling for the Primals because I think it better illustrates their duality than the original set-up did. Emerald clearly depicts that despite the Land/Sea ratio talk, Groudon and Kyogre are supposed to be evenly matched such that they could fight endlessly without resolving and the danger is the collateral damage of such a fight dragging on. This doesn't quite translate to game terms given how Weather works but in story it's depicted as their weathers constantly switching and pushing back against the other.
The Primals are a reasonable extension to this because with how their stats are distributed, they both have the power to one-shot or near-so the other with their signature moves, so the battle is essentially decided by who gets the weather advantage if that can even be done (Kyogre can't do shit to Fire/Ground under Harsh Sunlight, it needs Water STAB to come out ahead), going back to the point of this being a deadlock where any factor could flip the scales and it takes something massive to break them up (which does translate funnily to gameplay by coincidence, with the Primals ruling Ubers and their master in Mega Ray being an Uber-Uber to AG).
It's similar to something I see with Palkia and Dialga: The duality/rivalry is something you have to accept as Gameplay/Story separation, because in Gameplay terms, Dialga would easily merc Palkia before the reverse because of their respective typings.
We need an analysis of Legendary trios power hierarchy, game wise
Cuz Kyogre beats Ray easily with ice beam, as noted https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/little-things-that-annoy-you-in-pokémon.3512924/post-9593389
Isn't this just Natdex Ubers?
My two cents on the bashing of Gogoat on Geeta's team: It's just not a new Pokemon. Yes, a shallow reason, but when you have Scovillian and Brambleghast asking for a League Trainer to take up, seeing Geeta throw out Gogoat which you saw plenty of in Gen VI feels like she's just taking you for a ride.
Wouldn't mind using the Ditto Goo, no need to program in a new Material. Also wouldn't mind if they let you use Ditto Goo are replacement Materials in TM making as long as you have one of each required component (the idea being the Ditto Goo taking on the property of the missing extra material, though still needs at least on of that material to base itself on). And for Meltan it could be a mythology gag, how people thought Meltan had something to do with Ditto when it was first revealed (and maybe reference the scrapped Ditto Evo that needed a Metal Coat to evolve, hinting it was maybe intended to be Steel-type were it to have become a thing). Though I would keep the number of needed Ditto Goo low. 400 is too much; instead, I suggest 100. Why? Because Melmetal weights 800 kg, and Meltan weighs 8 kg. So, logically, a Melmetal is made of 100 Meltans. Huh, with that logic, that means Meltan Candy weights 2 kg; that's a heavy piece of candy!
That all said, wouldn't mind them releasing a Mighty Mark Melmetal, maybe have some lower level Meltan Raids be released along side it.
Really? My only complaint is that GF didn't make it so that what 5 other Eeveelutions she uses isn't randomized (or at the very least have her use a different team depending on the Starter you chose). She's missing an Espeon and Glaceon.
The only reason I remember Glimmet is because it took me a while to figure out the reason why it wasn't spawning even though it's icon was on the field was because it was spawning in the cave system below me.
And Kingambit, but only because people keep saying the two should have have their position switched (with good reason).
Inconsistencies of Pokemons's movepool: for example in gen7, why do EVERY Pokemon that can learn a TM can learn Toxic, EXCEPT Magearna? Why do MOST pseudo legendaries can learn Dragon Dance, EXCEPT Garchomp and Goodra? Some were fixed over the time, like Body Press on Zamazenta (it's an absolute crime that it doesn't learn it in Sword&Shield), but still (and I'm trying as hard as possible to not talk about Dexit, I could speak hours on it on how it's an absolutely stupid idea). Also, for genwunners, missing 100% accurate moves is absolutely crippling.
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Castersvarog
formerly Maronmario
Heck, this theme is likely half the reason why Rayquaza Mega evolves instead of being a primal reversion. Mega evolution always happens after a primal reversion in the turn order, thereby removing their weather effects allowing rayquaza to come out on top.
A minor nitpick in HGSS:
The roaming entei and raikou are encountered at level 40, which is perfect. They’re high leveled enough to intimidate casual players and to demolish the game if the player manages to get lucky enough to catch one early, but by the time you get the master ball, they’re about on par with your team.
HGSS added a new roaming lati@s to kanto, which seems like a solid team choice for the postgame. Sure, you need to complete the power plant sidequest, talk to the copycat, and collect her doll first, most likely defeating three or four gyms along the way, but it still should be strong enough to handle the rest of Kanto.
Except that for some reason, they’re only level 35. They are lower leveled than the other roaming legendaries you encounter almost 8 entire gyms ago.
The roaming entei and raikou are encountered at level 40, which is perfect. They’re high leveled enough to intimidate casual players and to demolish the game if the player manages to get lucky enough to catch one early, but by the time you get the master ball, they’re about on par with your team.
HGSS added a new roaming lati@s to kanto, which seems like a solid team choice for the postgame. Sure, you need to complete the power plant sidequest, talk to the copycat, and collect her doll first, most likely defeating three or four gyms along the way, but it still should be strong enough to handle the rest of Kanto.
Except that for some reason, they’re only level 35. They are lower leveled than the other roaming legendaries you encounter almost 8 entire gyms ago.
Post-game era Kanto and preposterously low-level encounters, name a more iconic duo