(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[QuentinQuonce]

Just did the Diancie "event" in XY, and it's hilarious how badly it undermines itself.

For those that haven't seen it

You get given Diancie by the delivery girl, then two people enter and express surprise that you've got Diancie and say that their master has been looking for it for years. So they ask you to give it to them, but whatever your response, their boss then enters and reprimands them, saying that it's not proper and fulfilling to just reap all the rewards from someone else's efforts, and that true satisfaction comes only from earning things through your own merits.

Or something. I may have fancified what they actually said but that was the gist of it.

Anyway, my point being: wouldn't his little lecture hit home much more thoroughly if you'd actually captured it yourself? I know it's not an uncommon opinion that events post-Gen V suck, but the most effort any of us put into getting Diancie was... obtaining and inputting the code.

I'm actually not even that opposed any more to being handed mythicals on a platter. I used to be, but there are so many older legendaries now that require effort to obtain, either via Ultra Wormholes or Dynamax Adventures or satisfying all the various conditions to make Hoopa's rings appear, that that's effort enough on its own so the mythicals are just kind of a bonus. But it's just hilarious how they called it out so obviously here. Got to wonder if it occurred to anyone on the writing team.

 

[R_N]

Diancie's is extra funny because to get the event text for Volcanion I am pretty sure you have to at least take it to Alexa's offices and even Hoopa still needs you to track someone down but Diancie happens the moment you get it.
By definition she requires the least effort to get AND the least effort to see the little "event"

 

[Pikachu315111]

FUN FACT: So the event has the butler and maid come out from behind the door in the Pokemon Center, right. Well, as it turns out, there's a copy of the butler and maid overworld models in EVERY Pokemon Center hiding just out of site behind the door, ready for the player to get Diancie to activate the Event. If this sounds familiar, it's the same trick they used for Lillie and other trainer models in Sun & Moon when the have a cutscene they appear in: they're stored off screen/out-of-site on the map so when the game plays the cutscene it doesn't have the load in the models (as they would already be loaded up).

But considering for the other two you have to go somewhere, as R_N said, I wonder why they didn't have you to to someplace it would make sense for the butler and maid to be looking for Diancie like in Reflection Cave or in front of Anistat City's Sundial?

 

[DrPumpkinz]

FUN FACT: So the event has the butler and maid come out from behind the door in the Pokemon Center, right. Well, as it turns out, there's a copy of the butler and maid overworld models in EVERY Pokemon Center hiding just out of site behind the door, ready for the player to get Diancie to activate the Event. If this sounds familiar, it's the same trick they used for Lillie and other trainer models in Sun & Moon when the have a cutscene they appear in: they're stored off screen/out-of-site on the map so when the game plays the cutscene it doesn't have the load in the models (as they would already be loaded up).

But considering for the other two you have to go somewhere, as R_N said, I wonder why they didn't have you to to someplace it would make sense for the butler and maid to be looking for Diancie like in Reflection Cave or in front of Anistat City's Sundial?

Just a disclaimer since this particular detail often gets referenced derisively (I don't think you meant it that way, but I just wanna clear things up for anyone who might interpret it that way) this trick has been used by many developers for many games for many years. Game Freak may be historically bad at optimization, but this isn't an example of that.

 

[Siggu]

Just a disclaimer since this particular detail often gets referenced derisively (I don't think you meant it that way, but I just wanna clear things up for anyone who might interpret it that way) this trick has been used by many developers for many games for many years. Game Freak may be historically bad at optimization, but this isn't an example of that.

And to make it simple to explain: the 3DS has poor processing power, but comparatively good memory, so it is actually a better choice to have easier-to-access copies than to have a single instance and keep looking for it every time.

 

[R_N]

And to make it simple to explain: the 3DS has poor processing power, but comparatively good memory, so it is actually a better choice to have easier-to-access copies than to have a single instance and keep looking for it every time.

iirc even high end systems will do tricks like this
It's just a nice & easy trick to have in your pocket in general





And other times you have to store a random mushroom at the lowest reaches of the map because you can't remove it or the game crashes and no one knows why

 

[Chadlad50]

And other times you have to store a random mushroom at the lowest reaches of the map because you can't remove it or the game crashes and no one knows why

 

[The Mind Electric]

View attachment 381331

 

[VikavoltIsEpik]

EVS are a pain without super training. It annoys me when I want to ev train in a hc nuzlocke and BAM like 3 hours gone down the drain (this is small for me btw idrc THAT much its just an inconvenience.

 

[Samtendo09]

We all talked about how poor the Johto dex is in hindsight for both GSC and HGSS due to poor distribution and how too many of the Gen 2 Pokémon sucked in comparison to the Gen 1 mons, but that's not the worst part by itself.

The worst part is how artificial it feels the more you think about it. Making some of them rarer than their Gen 1 counterparts would be understandable if some of them can pull their weight, or at least even if they are not super useful, they can still feel a bit special for those capturing them.

The problem with all that is that not only GF overdid it, but also didn't fixed it at all in HGSS. Too many Johto Pokémon were criminally underutilized, and too many of them cannot compete with their Kanto neighbors. They also made the same mistake of making single-staged Pokémon that are found out-of-the-way and with very high rarity rate or late-game, even if they do not have the movepool or stats to make it worth it.

If they made some Johto Pokémon relatively rarer but only to a point, made the weaker Johto Pokémon more common, and all of the Gym Leaders openly using Johto Pokémon, it wouldn't be so bad. I don't think I would be surprised if Johto started to be called "Older Kanto" or "Kanto 2" in a derisive way due to such distribution problems and how bad the Johto mons are compared to Kanto mons in retrospect.

I do not want to imagine that if GSC is really the last Pokémon games, I do not think people would be so nostalgic towards that as much as they are nostalgic towards Gen 1, who at least did a good job distributing the 150 first Pokémon for the most part... outside of Team Rocket's blunders and the Zubat / Tentacool spam.

tl;dr Johto's poor distribution and how poor the Johto mons are in general feels excruciatingly artificial as a result of GF doing overkill of making Johto Pokémon feels "special" to the point of gravely undermining their values instead.

 

[Sonikku A]

We all talked about how poor the Johto dex is in hindsight for both GSC and HGSS due to poor distribution and how too many of the Gen 2 Pokémon sucked in comparison to the Gen 1 mons, but that's not the worst part by itself.

The worst part is how artificial it feels the more you think about it. Making some of them rarer than their Gen 1 counterparts would be understandable if some of them can pull their weight, or at least even if they are not super useful, they can still feel a bit special for those capturing them.

The problem with all that is that not only GF overdid it, but also didn't fixed it at all in HGSS. Too many Johto Pokémon were criminally underutilized, and too many of them cannot compete with their Kanto neighbors. They also made the same mistake of making single-staged Pokémon that are found out-of-the-way and with very high rarity rate or late-game, even if they do not have the movepool or stats to make it worth it.

If they made some Johto Pokémon relatively rarer but only to a point, made the weaker Johto Pokémon more common, and all of the Gym Leaders openly using Johto Pokémon, it wouldn't be so bad. I don't think I would be surprised if Johto started to be called "Older Kanto" or "Kanto 2" in a derisive way due to such distribution problems and how bad the Johto mons are compared to Kanto mons in retrospect.

I do not want to imagine that if GSC is really the last Pokémon games, I do not think people would be so nostalgic towards that as much as they are nostalgic towards Gen 1, who at least did a good job distributing the 150 first Pokémon for the most part... outside of Team Rocket's blunders and the Zubat / Tentacool spam.

tl;dr Johto's poor distribution and how poor the Johto mons are in general feels excruciatingly artificial as a result of GF doing overkill of making Johto Pokémon feels "special" to the point of gravely undermining their values instead.

I honestly have to wonder why even the design philosophy drastically changed for early route Gen 2 mons. Sugimori said he sucked at making cute designs (hence Clefairy still having an edge to it), yet...
He ended up designing most of the gimmick Gen 2 mons, and then the babies in general, and HootHoot....

What happened? Gen 1 was more grounded in being monsters, animals, and unspecific fauna, then suddenly 2 is a contemporary gimmick fest outside stuff like Forretress, Houdoom, Skarm, Lanturn, and TTar
It's honestly such a drastic change, but no one noticed cuz >watercolor and >it was early. Then later gens were more balanced versions of 2's philosophy, so 1 just feels retroactively too different and not appealing for those that like the contemporary designs
I guess it makes 2 FEEL a lot different, but with the mentioned criticism, it just seems too much. It feels targeted unnecessarily to an audience

 

[ZettaiRyouiki]

I honestly have to wonder why even the design philosophy drastically changed for early route Gen 2 mons. [...] suddenly 2 is a contemporary gimmick fest

Could you please elaborate on what you mean?

 

[Sonikku A]

Could you please elaborate on what you mean?

Compare Caterpie to Ledyba, Pidgey to HootHoot, Sentret to Rattata
Gen 1s are either simple "realistic", godzilla monster dons, or weirder flora fauna. Or unspecified fauna
Gen 2 meanwhile you have
-blatantly doll eyed Cartoon ladybug
-Ball shaped owl with a 1 foot gimmick
-Cartoony tanooki with circle
All of which are contemporary/less natural designs that ironically, are all lost when they evolve
Even some cross evos have this distinction. Elekid is very blatantly plug shaped, with a blatant electric sign on front
Electabuzz meanwhile is a more ambiguous striped ogre
Or Crobat ditching the creepiness of the Zubat line (either being eyeless or having a sagging jaw/tongue) for triangle mouth
This doesn't mean that Gen 2 doesn't have designs more in line with Gen 1. Starters and late game mons typically can be closer
But the majority of those pushed forward very much were contemporary in that regard
And in the leaks we can see mons like Politoed and Hitmontop initially started more monstrous or animal like...to end up incredibly round and cutesy
Even Hoothoot shifted to be contemporary in dev
It's a noted change, and one has to wonder...why?
It was only 2 years since Gen 1 dev ended
I don't hate Gen 2 designs, and fans like the contemporary aspect of pokemon. I just find it weird how sudden it was

 

[ZettaiRyouiki]

Oh, that's true. Thank you for the explanation!

 

[Worldie]

I don't hate Gen 2 designs, and fans like the contemporary aspect of pokemon. I just find it weird how sudden it was

A wild guess is that they wanted to give a clear feel of difference between the gen 1 pokemon, and the """newly discovered pokemon of Jotho region""

The fact that the """newly discovered""" pokemon literally live in the town next door and have existed and worked with humans for the last thousand or so years is just a insignificant detail.

 

[Samtendo09]

A wild guess is that they wanted to give a clear feel of difference between the gen 1 pokemon, and the """newly discovered pokemon of Jotho region""

The fact that the """newly discovered""" pokemon literally live in the town next door and have existed and worked with humans for the last thousand or so years is just a insignificant detail.

Whatever that is, making most of them weaker or so much more difficult to find than their Kanto neighbors undermines the attachment towards the “newly discovered” feels they tried to advertise with.

Between all the “gimmick“ Pokémon and the not-so-good overall reception towards several Baby Pokémon introduced in Gen 2, I’ll say it again, they overdid it with trying to make them feel “special”.

 

[Bakugames]

Johtos dex feels less like a proper dex and more like kanto expansion pack (you could say that for most of the game but shhhh). Buncha babies, evolutions, and a lot of standalones are single stage and/or gimmicks

 

[Sonikku A]

Johtos dex feels less like a proper dex and more like kanto expansion pack (you could say that for most of the game but shhhh). Buncha babies, evolutions, and a lot of standalones are single stage and/or gimmicks

It gets me that when Gen 3 rolled around, people were mad they couldn't get Johto mons initially
...when Skarmory, Slugma, and Lantern line were more accessible than they ever were in GSC, and a lot more interesting than most of the early route fodder
...and then Colo comes out and you play as those. And they suuuuuuuuuck

Gen 4 seems to be built on Gen 2 nostalgia outside HGSS for dex. Similar new mon count (100 vs 106), a good chunk of that being cross evos, Day night returning, opposite gender Rival does nothing in the scheme of things given Barry, Oak still being relevant (though not as disgustingly bad like Gen 2)...
It seems GF was temporarily aware that Gen 2 hyper love occurred, tried to bank on it, then...changed immediately for BW because it'd be too detrimental otherwise

 

[Samtendo09]

Johtos dex feels less like a proper dex and more like kanto expansion pack (you could say that for most of the game but shhhh). Buncha babies, evolutions, and a lot of standalones are single stage and/or gimmicks

That’s a way to put it. Not a bad concept, in fact expanding upon what was established is a rarity in Pokémon mainline games, after all GSC are the sequel of the Kanto.

But the way of how Johto ends up being overly reliant to Kanto instead of standing out beyond having a much more old Japan influence, which is nicely shown especially HGSS.

It gets me that when Gen 3 rolled around, people were mad they couldn't get Johto mons initially
...when Skarmory, Slugma, and Lantern line were more accessible than they ever were in GSC, and a lot more interesting than most of the early route fodder
...and then Colo comes out and you play as those. And they suuuuuuuuuck

Gen 4 seems to be built on Gen 2 nostalgia outside HGSS for dex. Similar new mon count (100 vs 106), a good chunk of that being cross evos, Day night returning, opposite gender Rival does nothing in the scheme of things given Barry, Oak still being relevant (though not as disgustingly bad like Gen 2)...
It seems GF was temporarily aware that Gen 2 hyper love occurred, tried to bank on it, then...changed immediately for BW because it'd be too detrimental otherwise

Kind of shows people tend to ge way too attached with virtual monsters. I know it is sad that our favorite Pokémon may not be transferable in the next game or so, but in the end, they are still video game characters who we have no decision of who goes in or who goes out for the future mainline games. NatDex alone isn’t going to save the franchise.

Skarmory, Slugma line and Chinchou line being easily more accessible than they were in GSC (and HGSS I believe) caused some people to mistake those three lines as Gen 3 Pokémon, which I can forgive.

If those Gen 2 Pokémon sucked in GSC, they certainly sucked in Colosseum except Espeon ans Umbreon due to still having fundamental flaws, i.e. poor stats, awkward movepool, etc.

The original DP did a severe blunder of not making every cross evos available at the start, undermining their debut as a result, and while design is subjective so it really varies between people, some were off a very bad start such as Yanmega’s movepool not complementing its high Special Attack well. At least the likes of Misdreavus, Murkrow, Gligar and Sneasel gained a much needed boost in term of well executed evolution, and the Swinub line gained another evolution stage that proved to be a pretty potent threat despite late-game availability.

The other details are pretty nice though. The Sinnoh starters are also contrast of the Johto starters, as the former gain a secondary type upon evolution while the latter remained single typed which doesn’t helped with their mediocrity compared to other starters.

 

[TMan87]

It gets me that when Gen 3 rolled around, people were mad they couldn't get Johto mons initially
...when Skarmory, Slugma, and Lantern line were more accessible than they ever were in GSC, and a lot more interesting than most of the early route fodder
...and then Colo comes out and you play as those. And they suuuuuuuuuck

Gen 4 seems to be built on Gen 2 nostalgia outside HGSS for dex. Similar new mon count (100 vs 106), a good chunk of that being cross evos, Day night returning, opposite gender Rival does nothing in the scheme of things given Barry, Oak still being relevant (though not as disgustingly bad like Gen 2)...
It seems GF was temporarily aware that Gen 2 hyper love occurred, tried to bank on it, then...changed immediately for BW because it'd be too detrimental otherwise

Honestly, I have to make an active effort to remember that Skarmory, Slugma or Tyranitar are not, in fact, Gen III Pokémon.
And I say that as a guy whose first Pokémon game was Gold.

 

[Siggu]

Tyranitar is a particularly bad case. It's the pseudo-legendary, and thus Dragonite's equivalent of Johto.

You don't encounter it even ONCE during the Gen II games (Battle Tower notwithstanding).

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Why does "evolve by leveling up knowing a certain move" exist? I know the answer is "Game Freak things they're deathly allergic to retcons" but bear with me. Like, every other level-up method lends to a different experience when raising a Pokemon. Level up is a straightforward "just use them a bunch", friendship you need to avoid doing things that will make them unhappy, stone or items you need to actually find the thing, trade you need to find another irl human, etc. But leveling up while learning a certain move is basically just regular evolution via level up, just slightly more convoluted. Maybe if the trigger move was TM or egg move or something that you would need to put special effort into learning, but they're all just level up moves. Clobbopus, Poipole, and Steenee have even less of an excuse, because with like Aipom they could have been "we really want to drive home the connection between Double Hit and Ambipom" but Gen 7 introduced moves that are automatically learned upon evolution, regardless of level. They could have just made Taunt, Dragon Pulse, and Stomp be evolution moves. Except apparently not because all three of them already have evolution moves, being either their signature moves or fucking Air Cutter in the case of Naganadel. Why the fuck are you making them learn another move after they literally just learned a move? Why is that move Air Cutter?

 

[Sonikku A]

Why does "evolve by leveling up knowing a certain move" exist? I know the answer is "Game Freak things they're deathly allergic to retcons" but bear with me. Like, every other level-up method lends to a different experience when raising a Pokemon. Level up is a straightforward "just use them a bunch", friendship you need to avoid doing things that will make them unhappy, stone or items you need to actually find the thing, trade you need to find another irl human, etc. But leveling up while learning a certain move is basically just regular evolution via level up, just slightly more convoluted. Maybe if the trigger move was TM or egg move or something that you would need to put special effort into learning, but they're all just level up moves. Clobbopus, Poipole, and Steenee have even less of an excuse, because with like Aipom they could have been "we really want to drive home the connection between Double Hit and Ambipom" but Gen 7 introduced moves that are automatically learned upon evolution, regardless of level. They could have just made Taunt, Dragon Pulse, and Stomp be evolution moves. Except apparently not because all three of them already have evolution moves, being either their signature moves or fucking Air Cutter in the case of Naganadel. Why the fuck are you making them learn another move after they literally just learned a move? Why is that move Air Cutter?

It feels dumber for Bonsly and Mime Jr cuz they're literally the new baby mon. Then again Friendship based evo methods suck....

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Why does "evolve by leveling up knowing a certain move" exist? I know the answer is "Game Freak things they're deathly allergic to retcons" but bear with me. Like, every other level-up method lends to a different experience when raising a Pokemon. Level up is a straightforward "just use them a bunch", friendship you need to avoid doing things that will make them unhappy, stone or items you need to actually find the thing, trade you need to find another irl human, etc. But leveling up while learning a certain move is basically just regular evolution via level up, just slightly more convoluted. Maybe if the trigger move was TM or egg move or something that you would need to put special effort into learning, but they're all just level up moves. Clobbopus, Poipole, and Steenee have even less of an excuse, because with like Aipom they could have been "we really want to drive home the connection between Double Hit and Ambipom" but Gen 7 introduced moves that are automatically learned upon evolution, regardless of level. They could have just made Taunt, Dragon Pulse, and Stomp be evolution moves. Except apparently not because all three of them already have evolution moves, being either their signature moves or fucking Air Cutter in the case of Naganadel. Why the fuck are you making them learn another move after they literally just learned a move? Why is that move Air Cutter?

I always interpreted this as the Pokemon in question having to master a certain technique to become the form it needs to. It's kind of lazy but that was just my justification.

Like, what does Mr Mime do? It mimics things... so a Mime Jr isn't "ready" to become a Mr Mime until it's mastered the art of mimicry. Similarly with Poipole, it acquires the Dragon type upon evolution so it learning Dragon Pulse is it fully embracing that type to become it. (Though why that logic doesn't follow for any Pokemon which learns a move not of its own type is... flawed to say the least.) It's not a particularly exciting method of evolution though, I agree.

 

[Magnus0]

Mamoswine and Yanmega are both based on prehistoric animals, so that's why they evolve through learning ancient power. Tangrowth is a bit weird though. It might be inspired by the Megatherium, a giant ground sloth. It's not much, but there is at least some thought that went into their evolution method.

In terms of gameplay, I think Mamoswine in particular is pretty interesting. Piloswine learns ancientpower at level 1, which means that it essentially evolves through the move relearner. It's basically a stone evolution that evolves with a heart scale. The others might as well be normal level-based evolutions though.