Meditite

[Pancham]

So, could Thunder Punch also be used over Fake Out, since it's not really needed anymore, whereas Zen Headbutt, imo at least, is?

 

[athleteandy1]

There are mentions of Swirlix and Gligar all up in here. Also, is Ice Punch still needed then?

 

[Kavatika]

There are mentions of Swirlix and Gligar all up in here. Also, is Ice Punch still needed then?

No. And Adam Lambert Fake Out still has usage, namely against sturdy mons. It's not as important as it was before, but it's still worthy of a slash. I'd slash Thunder Punch after Zen Headbutt, since Zen Headbutt is arguably more useful.

 

[Rowan]

tbh, i wasn't sure what the best sets were after the bans, so i was gonna leave it for a bit. personally i don't think double prio is necessary anymore, and meditite is better off going full coverage so i think evio should be Drain Punch, Zen Headbutt, Thunderpunch, Fake Out/Bullet Punch. LO should be HJK/Drain Punch, Zenbutt, Thunderpunch, Fake Out/Bullet Punch/Drain Punch. Scarf can probably go HJK, Zen Headbutt, Thunder Punch/Drain Punch, Trick/Drain Punch. What does everyone think about this?

 

[Corporal Levi]

Would Poison Jab warrant mention on the Eviolite set to hit Spritzee, since Zen Headbutt doesn't 2HKO? It looks like Thunder Punch is almost entirely for slowpoke, anyway, so I don't think Poison Jab would be a significantly weaker option.
Also, now that Larvesta is rising in popularity, could Psycho Cut be an option over Zen Headbutt to avoid Flame Body?

 

[athleteandy1]

I agree with the Corporal. Poison Jab should be slashed with Thunderpunch, and Psycho Cut deserves a slash (albeit the second one).

 

[macle]

Corkscrew update with the bans

 

[Rowan]

my proposed changes to the sets:

Eviolite
########
name: Eviolite
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
move 3: Thunder Punch / Poison Jab
move 4: Fake Out
ability: Pure Power
item: Eviolite
evs: 196 Atk / 156 Def / 156 SDef
nature: Adamant

obviously tpunch for poke, poison jab for spritzee. fake out beats sturdy tirtouga which is why i think it's more necessary then bullet punch, bullet punch is weak af and not that useful. psycho cut deserving of a slash because fuck larvesta/ponyta burns.

Life Orb
########
name: Life Orb
move 1: Drain Punch / High Jump Kick
move 2: Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
move 3: Thunder Punch / Poison Jab
move 4: Fake Out / Bullet Punch / High Jump Kick
ability: Pure Power
item: Life Orb
evs: 196 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly

zenbutt/psycho cut slashed again, this time zenbutt 2hkos spritzee cos LO so poison jab isn't necessary, but psycho cut doesn't so jab still deserves a slash if you're using that. fake out / bullet punch for chip damage but 4 attacks is also viable. jolly might also be worth something, tying with jolly pawn and outspeeding non-jolly. but if you're not running poison jab, you can't 2hko spritzee with it, so don't bother if that's the case

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: High Jump Kick
move 2: Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
move 3: Drain Punch
move 4: Trick
ability: Pure Power
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly

this is the only slashes i think this set needs since trick already cripples spritzee/slowpoke, but if QC want its coverage slashed then i guess that's fine. i'll deffo mention them in the set comments anyway, along with baton pass still.

most important question: SHOULD FIRE PUNCH BE SLASHED ANYWHERE JUST FOR HONEDGE??? -- the reason why tpunch/poison jab are more important is because slowpoke and spritzee have reliable recovery but honedge would just get worn down naturally anyway.


just want a QC member to approve these changes before I make them, not sure of what the process is for this analysis since it was already finished before bans. prem, Goddess Briyella, macle.

 

[prem]

sounds good i approve get to work :)

 

[Goddess Briyella]

I approve of these changes. :)

Be sure to add a special mention of Fire Punch in Other Options, for Honedge. I don't think it's important enough to warrant a spot on a set in this analysis, as Slowpoke and Spritzee are much more common and problematic.

 

[Rowan]

made these changes. changed some of the writing, particular in the 'moves' sections, so if I could get another GP check, that'd be neat.

 

[tehy]

amcheck

a lot of very important comments here. In particular, the scarf set doesn't explain what it revenge kills other than 2 mons, you forget to mention that Psychic STAB is also for fairies which lol wall you otherwise, and you leave out some other necessary info as well. Please read over them all.

amcheck

Overview
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Thanks to its ability, Pure Power, which doubles its otherwise average Attack stat, Meditite is one of the most powerful physical attackers in Little Cup. To complement this, Meditite has a large physical movepool, giving it good coverage in the elemental punches, and priority in Fake Out and Bullet Punch. Although Meditite is powerful, it does have some downsides. Its Speed leaves it prone to being revenge killed by faster Pokemon such as Misdreavus, and Murkrow, and there are many bulky walls that resist Fighting-type moves, such as Spritzee and Slowpoke.

Eviolite
########
name: Eviolite
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
move 3: Thunder Punch / Poison Jab
move 4: Fake Out
ability: Pure Power
item: Eviolite
evs: 196 Atk / 156 Def / 156 SDef
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

With an Eviolite, Meditite can be a good bulky attacker that can easily dent holes in the opposing team. Drain Punch should be used the most, as it is not only a reliable STAB, but it is also Meditite's only way of staying healthy throughout the match. The second moveslot is used forA Psychic-type STAB tois used prevent Poison-types walling you, whilst also giving you an option to hit Ghost- and Fairy-types with. Zen Headbutt is slightly more powerful, but Psycho Cut has better100 accuracy and is a non-contact move, which allows it to avoid burns from Flame Body Larvesta and Ponyta. Thunder Punch allows Meditite to hit Slowpoke super-effectively, who would otherwise wall Meditite, and also allows it to hit Flying-type switch-ins. Poison Jab is another option which allows Meditite to 2HKO Spritzee and hit other Fairy-types such as Cottonee hard. Finally, Fake Out is used to break Sturdy from Magnemite, Tirtouga and Dwebble, allowing it to function as a good counter to these Pokemon. It can also provide some extra chip damage on weakened sweepers.

Set Details
========

The EVs max out Meditite's Attack stat in order to make sure it hits as hard as possible, with the rest placed in its defenses. With an Eviolite, Meditite has 21 in each defensive stat, allowing it to take hits such as +2 Waterfall from Tirtouga and Misdreavus's Shadow Ball. Alternatively, a faster EV spread can be used, as maximizing Speed allows it to speed tie with Jolly Pawniard. However, the use of Eviolite means that this set is better off focusing on taking hits.

Usage Tips
========

Meditite's primary purpose is to be used as a bulky pivot that can punch holes in many common threats. With its unique typing, it can switch into most Normal-, Fighting-, Rock-, Poison-, and Steel-types and can hit them with super effective moves, or predict incoming switch-ins to hit with a coverage move. It must be wary of switching into Pokemon such as Porygon and Munchlax that can paralyze it as it switches in, or Koffing, which often carries Will-O-Wisp. Meditite's reasonable bulk and high Attack allow it to check many of the tier's most threatening set-up sweepers, such as Carvanha, Tirtouga and Dwebble.

Team Options
========

Meditite really appreciates something that can switch into faster Flying-types, such as Murkrow, and Fletchling. Archen and Magnemite are great for this, and they can also provide Meditite with opportunities to switch in with U-turn or Volt Switch. Fairy-types such as Spritzee and Snubbull also give Meditite some trouble, so Steel- and Poison-types make good partners. Pawniard is good at fulfilling this role and supporting Meditite with Knock Off, and it likes Meditite's ability to switch into Fighting-types. Pokemon that can switch into Ghost-type moves from Misdreavus and Gastly make for good teammates; Porygon and Munchlax are prime examples and can support Meditite with Thunder Wave and Body Slam, respectively. Fairy-types such as Spritzee like the fact that Meditite can remove Poison-types for them, which can open up the opportunity for a late-game sweep. Finally an interesting partner is Torchic, which can Baton Pass boosts from Swords Dance and Speed Boost, turning Meditite into a formidable sweeper.

Life Orb
########
name: Life Orb
move 1: Drain Punch / High Jump Kick
move 2: Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
move 3: Thunder Punch / Poison Jab
move 4: Fake Out / Bullet Punch / High Jump Kick
ability: Pure Power
item: Life Orb
evs: 196 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

This set aims to hit as hard as possible with its Life Orb-boosted attacks. Drain Punch is the STAB move of choice, hitting hard and recovering health to keep Meditite healthy. High Jump Kick is a risky alternative, but is one of the most powerful moves in the tier, dealing massive damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Like the EviolMeditite set,'s Psychic STAB is chosen for the second slot. This gives it a less risky STAB to use if you're not using Drain PunchHigh Jump Kick. Zen Headbutt is capable of 2HKOing Spritzee, whilst Psycho Cut avoids Flame Body from Larvesta due to its non-contact properties. Thunder Punch allows Meditite to deal large damage to Slowpoke, whilst Poison Jab 2HKOs Spritzee, which is useful if you're not running Zen Headbutt. It, and also OHKOs Cottonee on the switch-in. For the final slot, priority is useful, providing chip damage, and allowing it to revenge kill weakened sweepers. Fake Out is more useful overall, but Bullet Punch allows Meditite to hit weakened Ghost-types, as well as faster Rock-types such as +2 Dwebble and Choice Scarf Amaura. Alternatively, you can forgo priority, for a secondary FHighting STAB Jump Kick, allowing you to run both a reliable and a powerful Fighting-type STAB attack in one set.

Set Details
========

The EV spread for this set is very simple, investing in Speed and Attack, with an extra point put into Defense. An Adamant nature is used as it lets Meditite 2HKO Spritzee with Zen Headbutt, while a Jolly nature doesn't let Meditite outspeed anything too notable. It is an option, however, if you want to speed tie with Jolly Pawniard, and max Speed neutral-natured Mienfoo and Chinchou. As the item used is a Life Orb, no extra EVs should go into Meditite's HP, as Meditite hits the crucial 19 HP stat, meaning that it only loses 1 HP to recoil instead of 2.

Usage Tips
========

Because Life Orb Meditite is much frailer than Eviolite Meditite, it cannot switch in nearly as well. Due to this, it should be used as more of a hit-and-run Pokemon, as many things will be able to revenge kill it. Once Meditite is in safely, it can threaten most of the tier with its powerful moves. It often relies on prediction in order to hit Pokemon switching in, such as using Thunder Punch on a predicted Slowpoke switch-in or Poison Jab on an predicted Spritzee or Cottonee switch-in. For this reason it should be noted that Meditite should no, don't overuse Fake Out, as this will give the opponent a much easier time switching in. Meditite is a great revenge killer, as it can deal serious damage to anything slower than it and can take down faster threats with its priority.

Team Options
========

Meditite works well on balanced teams that need something to hit hard and break down defensive cores. Late-game sweepers, such as Scraggy and Tirtouga, love Meditite's ability to soften up the opposing team. In particular, Tirtouga appreciates Slowpoke being lured out and KOed with Thunder Punch, while Scraggy appreciates the same being done with Spritzee. Meditite also likes entry hazard support., as Stealth Rock can help Meditite get more OHKOs, such as on Vullaby with High Jump Kick and on Berry Juice Chinchou with Drain Punch. Sticky Web is another entry hazard that Meditite likes, as it can turn Meditite into a threatening sweeper tha, since it can outpace most -1 Speed opponents.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: High Jump Kick
move 2: Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
move 3: Drain Punch
move 4: Trick
ability: Pure Power
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly

Moves
========

High Jump Kick is the primary move on the Choice Scarf set, as alongside the boosted Speed, Meditite can often pull off late-game sweeps with its power. Zen Headbutt or Psycho Cur are more reliable STAB moves and should be used more frequently than High Jump Kick if the opposing team has a Ghost-type. Drain Punch gives Meditite a more reliable Fighting STAB to use when the power from High Jump Kick isn't necessary. In the final slot, Trick is a great option that can make Slowpoke and Spritzee easier to handle. Thunder Punch or Poison Jab could be used in the final slot, but Trick already cripples Slowpoke and Fairy-types. Baton Pass is another option which can be used to keep momentum if you predict the opponent to switch.

Set Details
========

The EV spread is very simple here. Speed and Attack are fully invested in, with the remaining EVs giving Meditite an extra point in HP and Defense. Adamant is the primary nature as a Choice Scarf already remedies its Speed problems, but Jolly lets it outspeed +1 Jolly Scraggy and speed tie with Scarf Chinchou and Mienfoo.

Usage Tips
========

This set is quite simple to use; it can come in mid-game to revenge kill threats and damage the opposing team, and late-game to sweep with High Jump Kick once all Fighting resists have been removed. With a Choice Scarf, Meditite can outspeed and revenge kill many threats that the other sets struggle against, such as Murkrow and Misdreavus. This gives Meditite a large surprise factor, as it is not expected to outspeed these Pokemon.

Team Options
========

Meditite really appreciates the support of anything that can counter Ghost-types, so it can freely use High Jump Kick. Pawniard and Stunky are fantastic options that can use Pursuit to trap Ghost-types. Meditite also likes the support of Knock Off users to weaken bulky walls that could give it trouble. Dwebble, Pawniard, and Tirtouga are all choices that can Knock Off Eviolites from physical walls. Other Fighting-types such as Mienfoo, Timburr, Scraggy, and Croagunk can also help by using Knock Off on Fairy-type counters such as Spritzee.

Other Options
########

In terms of coverage moves, Meditite's best option is Fire Punch to hit Honedge, which otherwise completely walls it. Recover is an option to boost Meditite's longevity more reliably than Drain Punch, but Meditite's main purpose is to hit hard and it needs as much coverage as it can get. Meditite has access to Bulk Up, Calm Mind, and Baton Pass, which can be used to pass boosts to teammates. It can even run Baton Pass without any boosting moves in order to be part of a Baton Pass chain, which works well with Pokemon such as Torchic. Meditite can attempt to sweep using a Bulk Up set, but its chances of sweeping are quite low with many faster threats roaming around. Berry Juice is another useful option, especially if you don't want to use Drain Punch. Finally, Substitute eases prediction and allows Meditite to avoid status. A Berry Juice set consisting of Substitute, High Jump Kick, Psychic STAB, and either Thunder Punch or Poison Jab is very usable.

Checks & Counters
########

**Ghost-types**: Due to their immunity to Meditite's primary STAB, Ghost-types make excellent counters to it. Honedge, in particular, resists every move that Meditite commonly carries, and can hit back with a super effective Shadow Sneak. Misdreavus doesn't like switching into Zen Headbutt, especially without an Eviolite, but it can outspeed Meditite and hit it hard with Shadow Ball. Gastly is very frail so it cannot switch in too well, but it outspeeds Meditite and has super effective STAB moves.

**Psychic-types**: Psychic-types resists both of Meditite's STAB moves, so they often have no trouble switching in. Slowpoke fears only Thunder Punch and can use Scald or Thunder Wave to cripple Meditite. Elgyem and Mime Jr. are slightly less common Psychic-types that can take anything Meditite throws at them and hit back. Finally, Wynaut rarely fails to remove Meditite from the game thanks to Shadow Tag and Counter.

**Fairy-types**: Fairy is another type that resists Fighting, and even hits Meditite super effectively, so Fairy-theypes also make good counters. Spritzee walls sets without Life Orb and only fears the occasional Poison Jab. Snubbull has access to Intimidate, which can force Meditite out.

**Flying-types**: Murkrow and Fletchling hate switching in, but are both able to revenge kill Meditite with their super-effective STAB.

**Certain Bulky Fire-types**: Growlithe is another Intimidate user that can force Meditite out, threatening it with a burn. Thanks to its Bug typing, Larvesta resists Fighting and has Flame Body to discourage Meditite from attacking it. Ponyta risks being 2HKOed by Drain Punch, but it can be sent in to try and activate Flame Body as a last-ditch attempt to stop Meditite.

**Status**: Being burnt or paralyzed severely cripples Meditite, so it must be wary around certain Pokemon. Foongus and Slowpoke can paralyze it with Stun Spore and Thunder Wave, respectively. Scald burns from bulky Water-types like Chinchou can also stop Meditite from functioning well. Although confusion is rare, Meditite is very vulnerable to it due to its high Attack stat.

amcheck

Comments:

On the Eviolite set, you don't mention that your Psychic stab is how you're hitting fairies, which is fairly relevant. This also makes relevant the fact that Zen Headbutt has a flinch chance, which you also don't mention. And while I get that the comparison between it and Psycho Cut is already a bit long, I feel like this is still relevant enough to warrant a mention. Also, Psycho Cut has 100 accuracy, not just better accuracy, which is totally worth mentioning because it means you can't possibly miss it without evasion boosts or accuracy drops-i.e. it's totally safe to use it. Which is big-even a 99% move can miss and leave you out in the cold.

Saying "X is in the second slot" is pure fluff and i see stuff like it all the time. These analyses are structured so that you don't have to lead into stuff-if you really can't think of a good way to do it, just say what you gotta say. Worst-case scenario, fix it later, but that's almost never necessary.

For some reason you almost seem to dance around saying "High Jump Kick" in the Life Orb set, just say it instead of "not drain punch" or "a second Fighting STAB". Also, you kind of have to specify that it's fighting STAB you're talking about, as you could already run High Jump Kick and Psycho Cut. I know you're talking about a situation where you've got Drain Punch right here, but you still do have the option of running a powerful and a reliable STAB. Maybe you should just mention that you can run a reliable and healing STAB alongside a super powerful and risky one?

So if you're using Psycho Cut, and also possibly Poison Jab, why wouldn't you run Jolly in the Life Orb set? Are there any other relevant 2hitKoes? Is the sheer power just so great that it's worth it, because you can steamroll through stuff in general and punch holes all around? Maybe you should mention that. Yes, it's stated that Jolly doesn't let you outspeed anything too notable, but by what i'm reading if i'm using Psycho Cut Adamant won't let me 2hitko anything too notable either. Also, why is the extra point in Defense? I guess it's said later on that it won't go into HP because LO and 19 hp, but why not SpD? Could you not reach an extra point? Maybe it's because of priority? The whole EV section is just kind of bare here.

I guess that Meditite is a nice revenge killer for slower things and weakened things, but for healthier faster mons (i.e a lot of the stuff you are called on to revenge kill) it fails, so why mention it as such? Just mention it's a great wallbreaker and can be nicely revenge weakened stuff?

Choice Scarf Meditite:A revenge killer who apparently has no moves that can revenge kill stuff. Oh, theoretically it does, but surely you would have mentioned what specific moves revenge kill specific stuff and what kind of stuff it can revenge kill...right? And yes, you do mention that it can kill Murkrow and Misdreavus, but come on-no boosting sweepers or anything? I guess Nasty Plot misdreavus, although this was always a weak revenge kill since it can take your attacks anyhow if it's healthy and KO back.

Ghosts also cause it to take 50% damage from High Jump Kick;maybe mention that?

And Fairy hits meditite SE, which is damn relevant, considering that if it didn't, he could maybe break past a lot of them.

What bulky fire-types don't cause Meditite problems? I honestly can't think of one off the top of my head that you didn't just mention.

Er...Foongus is hit SE by Psychic. If it switches into any of Meditite's other attacks, the most-used spread is Koed by psycho cut (eviolite mind you), and it's destroyed by Zen Headbutt. A max hp max def bold spread can maybe take one other hit and one psycho cut from eviolite if there's no hazards, I guess. And it's got SPORE. Fine it may have already used it, but altogether, is there really nothing better to mention as a mon you might switch into or might switch into you and try to status you?

 

[Rowan]

thanks tehy, made most the changes

calling this done, cos although it was an amcheck, I only made a few changes to some of the paragraphs, and I technically already had 2 GP checks

 

[Kavatika]

somebody get rid of this it's banned

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Meditite is now banned from XY Little Cup, so I'll be locking this.