Makes sense to not drop it to 4, it just seems desirable to allow Ice types to naturally be better in this meta. As for 6, I just feel like there wouldn’t be enough types/Pokemon to benefit from it in the meta.
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Project Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter KaenSoul
- Start date
We already have a lot of formats that allow mons to gain viability thanks to updated stats, and they all have much simpler formulas.
This idea mostly improves fat builds, and that's usually comes with a lot of issues, from set up sweepers getting easily out of control and lots of complaints about stall whenever there is a ladder, a format where stuff just get harder to take down isn't likely to get popular.Assistype
The less fortunate recieve a blessing from Arceus!
Metagame Premise:
Any Pokemon with 5 or more weaknesses will take less damage from super-effective attacks. A 2x effective move will now do 1.25x, and a 4x will do 2.5x. (0.6x the original multiplier)
Q: What happens if I add a type like with Forest’s Curse or Trick-or-Treat?
A: My simple solution would just be to ban those moves that add types (not change them). In hindsight, all damage calculation would just be multiplied by 1.25 instead of 2, so long as the combination has 5 or more weaknesses, so it’d make sense to clarify that.
Q: What happens when a Pokemon terastelizes?
A: Terastelization will replace your old weaknesses, and thus damage would not change to the new multiplier. I considered banning Tera outright, but I’m intrigued to see how it would be in this metagame.
Potential bans and threats:
(I am out of the house right now so I’m only listing what I can right now)
Bans (All Ubers, plus the following):
Threats:
Increased Viability:
Questions for the community:
1. Do you think this metagame would be different enough from OU?
2. I believe that setup sweepers or bulky support that would usually have 5 or more weaknesses have a much easier time in this sort of game.
3. Could it be 4 weaknesses?
4. What are your thoughts on Ogerpon and Enamorus?
Guess who? More like guess who is gonna program all that, and guess who can understand such a premise at first glance?
But for real, this is way too complex for an OM.
On top of that, you also have to consider if it’s even fun to play. Visuals are still important in games, so you know what you’re doing.
How does Truant interact in this meta? Would Loafing Around turns be done on inactive turns? And what about moves like Hyper Beam as well?guess whats back
1-2 Switch!
This metagame combines Singles and Doubles into one metagame by having each Pokemon switch between "active" and "inactive" every few turns, much akin to Rotation Battles. On every first and third of four turns all Pokemon can act, on every second of four turns the second Pokemon cannot act or be acted upon, and on every fourth turn the first Pokemon cannot act or be acted upon. With such a major mechanical shift, who knows what could happen!
(edit for clarification since this is for faq: having 1 mon only means that there is no inactivity)
Rules
Mechanic: Doubles-based metagame where each Pokemon switches between active and inactive every few turns.
Clauses: Standard Doubles, Gravity Sleep Clause
Bans: Annihilape, Arceus, Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Darkrai, Dialga, Eternatus, Giratina, Groudon, Koraidon, Kyogre, Magearna, Mewtwo, Miraidon, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Palkia, Rayquaza, Tatsugiri, Urshifu, Zacian, Zamazenta-Crowned, Moody, Sand Veil, Shadow Tag, Snow Cloak, King's Rock, Razor Fang
Strategy
Protect, Fake Out, and redirection is by far the most important tools in the metagame due to their control over the singles and doubles turns, especially the latter for redirection, despite their limiting effects on moveslot space. Abilities like Intimidate not affecting inactive Pokemon means that they cannot be weakened on the switch during a Singles turn, making it much more important to micromanage. This also extends to switched in Pokemon that are inactive, as they cannot switch. Spread moves like Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Bleakwind Storm are much more potent, as they do not target inactive Pokemon and as such have the 1x multiplier during Singles turns. Hazards and setup, similarly, are also more potent as Singles turns grant more safety into bulkier Pokemon to play around the much more chaotic Doubles turns. All of this culminates into a metagame like no other, so use your knowledge from both Singles and Doubles to great effect!
Increased Viability
Protect becomes immensely more useful here, as being able to either stall out a Singles turn or Doubles turn can turn the tides quickly.
Fake Out can quickly and easily stall out a turn, being able to force a mechanic shift reliably while also preventing the target from moving if they lack a Covert Cloak. Feint also gains a lot more viability due to it mitigating Protect.
Covert Cloak is able to ignore Fake Out and similar effects without giving up much utility, which is amazing on a wide variety of Pokemon. I expect this to be a possible staple.
Weather is much better here, as it is very easy to switch in a weather setter like Torkoal and Pelipper on a Singles turn while reaping the rewards on a Doubles turn. Screen setting is the exact same, except the setters can do it safely without the constant threat of two attackers at once.
Decreased Viability
Tailwind is all-around nerfed badly. While some dedicated Tailwind setters like Tornadus are only affected minimally, more often than not the offensive Pokemon are setting Tailwind themselves. This means that either their partner or themself will often be the one unable to do anything the next turn, and the few times the setter is the only one active will likely be spent using Protect or inerting less passive pressure. Tailwind effectively being active for 3 turns doesn't help much, either.
Status effects and other damaging effects like Salt Cure and Fire Spin do not activate during inactive turns and so are much worse in practice. That being said, the trapping move timer does not decrease at the end of an inactive turn.
Intimidate does not affect inactive Pokemon and therefore has to be played with acknowledgement of this. This is also the case for other on-entry abilities like Hospitality and the Ruin abilities.
Imagine Arena Trap in Singles but its reliant on trapping during the first turn, loses 99% of the time to Protect, and is completely useless otherwise. That is Arena Trap here.
Other Viability Shifts
It's hard to predict if Trick Room will gain a buff or nerf from such a mechanical change. On one hand, its much easier to set them up from the Singles-to-Doubles turn shifts, while on the other it becomes a lot easier to stall out said turns. Support setters like Cresselia and Indeedee also do nothing but sit there for at least one turn, if not two.
Watchlist
Both are incredibly powerful already, but give them easier Sun setup and even fewer largely consistent answers than regular Singles and you have quite possibly the deadliest core in the metagame.
Much like Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao is a crazy enabler and abuser in a much more defensively limited metagame that is already famous for many physically offensive cores like PaoPult and PaoNite, and these cores only improve in a metagame limited in effective speed control options.
Gravity Sleep Clause in a half-Singles metagame is incredibly threatening, and needs testing in of itself. However, the widespread use of Safety Goggles in Doubles already paired with the relevance of Tera Grass makes this less of an issue, hopefully.
Well this one doesn't need explaining. Male Basculegion is probably broken but the other two Last Respects users are likely to not be.
I hope this doesn't need an explanation either.
Previously banned from DOU but stuck in UUBL, Cocaine Bear is a nightmare to deal with in Trick Room and just a slow attacker out of it. Whatever comes of it is hard to tell.
While limited in the moveslot department, its still Palafin. Safety Goggles or Choice Band, pick your poison. Probably the least broken watchlist Pokemon here.
Questions for the Community
- Are there any other Pokemon that should be watched or banned, or specific things that are inherently better/worse?
- Are there any combos that are now buffed specifically in 1-2 Switch?
- How would Dondozo + Tatsugiri work, despite their interaction being already banned?
- Should tiering be more in respect to Singles, Doubles, or in line with its own unique definition?
Also this meta sounds incredibly frustrating. Your Pokemon loses a turn via miss/paralysis/flinch and not only do they lose that turn but they lose 2 turns because they suddenly are inactive, and that’s regular play. Unless there is forgiveness for losing a turn due RNG, most people will definitely be frustrated playing this.
And that bit about Protect and Fake Out, since one of your Pokemon is guaranteed to be basically Slaking, I think its best to ban those moves along with their clones.
These all are covered in Rotation Battle, but they simply get paused. Any ability with a cooldown or similar is simply paused during the inactive turns. As for inactive turns, it can't be targetted (by any means, remember this is Rotation Battle mechanics) either and luck is shared so its a non-issue. Protect and Fake Out are meta-defining, so you can't exactly just remove them.
Ok good. I was under the impression you could still target those Pokemon. I genuinely could not imagine how RNG would ruin this meta if the inactive Pokemon wasn’t safe.
And for Protect and Fake Out, they are fine now. I mentioned them because they absolutely ruin Slaking.
Why would you care ? While it's true that the metagame require some particular coding structure, I don't think it's undoable. If you consider all previous OM and what programmers went through to do them, this could be just another workout for them.
If it's a bad formulation for a premise, then I'm sorry, I'll try to rephrase it. However, the way you're highlighting it sounds like a complaint. I established the rules, bans and questions/answers SO THAT you can understand the premise.
Everyone find an OM that suits their tastes. An OM being "fun" is fun for those who found their bearings in it. I don't think the one who suggested Flipped, for example, was thinking about its OM being fun when preparing it, yet unusual. As for visuals : to hide them is a good way to test your knowledge about Pokémon Strategy. I don't think those who specialize in formats with randomness/no team preview would whine about it.
Almost 2 weeks later, I return with the finalized idea of this metagameI have a wonderful idea. I think it's very fun as a metagame personally >:)
Contractmons
The premise is simple: you can use all of your pokemon in a normal battle that you want. However, at the end of every turn, you lose a set amount of HP based on the Base Stat Total of your pokemon. The higher the stats, the more HP you take!
Base Stat Formula
1 - 369
= 0%
370 - 453
= 1/16%
454 - 549
= 1/8%
= 1/4%
680+ = 1/2%
Banlist
Calyrex-Shadow
Arceus (all forms)
Calyrex-Ice
Darkrai
Dialga
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Giratina
Groudon
Iron Bundle
Koraidon
Kyogre
Magearna
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Palkia
Rayquaza
Regieleki
Spectrier
Shaymin-Sky
Urshifu
Zacian
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baton Pass
Shed Tail
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
King's Rock
Razor Fang
Leftovers
Bright Powder
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shadow Tag
Moody
Sand Veil
Snow Cloak
Watchlist
Dragonite
Volcarona
Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Landorus
Palafin
- Trapping moves (Sand Tomb, Whirlpool, Fire Spin, etc)
- Regenerator
- Healing moves (Rest, Wish, Recover, etc)
- Terastallization
Questions & Answers
Q: Do any abilities interact with this damage tick? A: No. The only way to negate the damage is by switching, but even so, the switch-in will still take damage at the end of the turn.
Q: How much is the damage tick? A: Everything is rounded down. So if you were to have an HP stat of 374 and a BST of 560, you would be taking 93 HP of damage every turn instead of 93.5.
Q: What happens if it's 2 pokemon remaining and they both die to the tick damage? A: Maybe make it a speed tie thing? Or a draw. I'm not sure how that scenario would play out, but maybe make it a speed thing of that's the case.
Q: Why is the tick damage so specific? A: Well I tried to sort it by first evolution, second evolution, the fully evolved 2 stages, the third evolutions, the legendaries and pseudo legends, and then the high base stat pokemon.
Q: How do stat changes effect the damage taken? A: Uuum... I didn't think about all that. The goal is for the damage taken to be based on the original Base Stat Total, and have all these stat changes by wany of boosting or decreasing not affect the pokemon in battle.
Let me know what you guys think of Contractmons.
ContractmonsOnce again, the premise is simple. A mysterious contract has caught your pokemons unaware! At the end of each turn, the pokemon on the field takes guaranteed damage! The damage a pokemon takes is based on the tier they reside in.
Damage Formula
Ubers+ = Curse Damage (1/4th damage)
UU - OU = Rocky Helmet Damage (1/6th damage)
NU - RU = Poison Damage (1/8th damage)
ZU - PU = Burn Damage (1/16th damage)
LC & NFE = No Damage
Banlist
Arceus (all forms)-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baton Pass Shed TailWatchlist
Calyrex-Shadow- Moody
- Evasion Items/Abilities
- King's Rock & Razor Fang
Revival Blessing
Potential Picks
So with this meta, I've decided to limit every team to only 1 Uber pokemon if need be. Dialga here might be pretty good because it can threaten all of them with a Choice Specs moveset of something like Dragon Pulse, Thunder, Ice Beam, and Earth Power. Not only is it solid damage overall, but the fact of the matter is that Dialga is stupendously bulky for a Choice Specs attacker, and I bet it can be a decent off-meta sorta Ubers counter pokemon. Who cares if its a 1-for-1 trade? Are you seriously trading a Miraidon for a Dialga?
Dipplin. At first glance, it seems bad. That's because it kinda is underwhelming. But once you look deeper into its movepool, it catches your attention. Infestation trapping. A good type matchup into Groudon and a non Ice Beam locked Kyogre. Recover. And its just generally bulky with an Eviolite that cannot be removed by Knock Off. It's also good into other Ubers like Palafin and Ogerpon-Hearthflame -- but you're probably not using those when you have the very obvious picks like Chi-Yu or Zacian Crowned.
This mon is actually a monster. Wish is a valuable move in this meta because you just straight up take constant chip damage. Regenerator is also VERY good when you're always taking chip damage. If this was a metagame, you definitely need to consider at least 1 Regenerator pokemon on every team. Ok so. We have a metagame with Electro Drift Miraidon, Calyrex-Shadow, Chi-Yu, and just a shitload of special attackers. Now whats a valid special wall in the face of this? Ting-Lu. Yea it's taking 1/6 of damage every turn which kinda sucks, but you honestly can really customize the thing. It's legit the Ferrothorn of this metagame, minus Leech Seed and Knock Off. Choice Band, general Hazard Utility, Rest sets for longevity all of it is valid. Personally, I think Choice Band is the best option because well...0 Atk Choice Band Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 350-414 (102.6 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yea this is probably top 10 non Ubers pokemon.
Ok ok ok. We all know how goated Great Tusk is (actually lives up to the name). But lets see the competition. 2 new PHYSICAL sun setters o.o and Great Tusk has Ice Spinner. Granted its not dealing a lot of damage, but with Curse chip on the Ubers sun setters, it could be good. And I'm sure we know that Earthquake shits on Torkoal so that doesn't really matter much.I answered all the important metagame questions but if you dont want to read them, here are the answers to the important stuff:
- You always take chip damage at the end of each turn
- The BL tiers count as the tier above the one they were banned from (so PUBL is NU, RUBL is UU, etc)
- The faster pokemon takes chip damage first (if there's 2 pokemon at the end of the turn that die to damage from their contract, the faster one always loses. Speed ties are simply speed ties)
And the reason I added an Ubers clause is because it's not fun playing as an all Ubers team when other options could be explored.
Another thing to note is that the only tier shifts that matter are OU <-> Ubers, RU <-> UU, NU <-> PU, and ig ZU <-> NFE is somewhat relevant for the Eviolite users. And... that's it really. Personally I do realize a tier shift affected metagame is not new, but there's not too many relevant drops that matter. And even so, no other metagame is based on chip damage. Thanks for reading this far if you did (you're a legend <3 <3 <3). Lemme know what ya'll think of this metagame. And with all that being said, goodbye.
I told you in a previous post I found the metagame a little cruel, because of the constant damages, but now I see a good value in it : subs become "nerfed" in a way so setups are gonna be easier to stop (every team will need at least one Spinner/Defogger/Hazer just in case). Also, you might want to ban or add Salt Cure in the watchlist.Almost 2 weeks later, I return with the finalized idea of this metagame
Once again, the premise is simple. A mysterious contract has caught your pokemons unaware! At the end of each turn, the pokemon on the field takes guaranteed damage! The damage a pokemon takes is based on the tier they reside in.
Damage Formula
Ubers+ = Curse Damage (1/4th damage)
UU - OU = Rocky Helmet Damage (1/6th damage)
NU - RU = Poison Damage (1/8th damage)
ZU - PU = Burn Damage (1/16th damage)
LC & NFE = No Damage
Banlist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Watchlist
- Moody
- Evasion Items/Abilities
- King's Rock & Razor Fang
Revival Blessing
Potential Picks
0 Atk Choice Band Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 350-414 (102.6 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yea this is probably top 10 non Ubers pokemon.
I answered all the important metagame questions but if you dont want to read them, here are the answers to the important stuff:
- You always take chip damage at the end of each turn
- The BL tiers count as the tier above the one they were banned from (so PUBL is NU, RUBL is UU, etc)
- The faster pokemon takes chip damage first (if there's 2 pokemon at the end of the turn that die to damage from their contract, the faster one always loses. Speed ties are simply speed ties)
And the reason I added an Ubers clause is because it's not fun playing as an all Ubers team when other options could be explored.
Another thing to note is that the only tier shifts that matter are OU <-> Ubers, RU <-> UU, NU <-> PU, and ig ZU <-> NFE is somewhat relevant for the Eviolite users. And... that's it really. Personally I do realize a tier shift affected metagame is not new, but there's not too many relevant drops that matter. And even so, no other metagame is based on chip damage. Thanks for reading this far if you did (you're a legend <3 <3 <3). Lemme know what ya'll think of this metagame. And with all that being said, goodbye.
Now if your idea is allowed for submission (which I hope for you), I would watch out for weather teams and Uber spams.
Hi y'all, this is my first smogon post in a loooong time, so bear with me. I know pseudos/OUBL tiers have been tried and tried with limited success, but I found something that seems to have cracked the code. I suggested the UUbers OM on r/stunfisk, which applies usage based tiering to Ubers to create another meta beneath that, but separate from the OU-ZU tiering system. It has since blown up, where we currently have 981 people in the discord, and more than 1000 games played in the past two weeks. For some reason the meta has NOT devolved into a crazy HO/degenerate state, and we've had tons of fun playing it.
The tier has the exact same ruleset as Ubers, but with a banlist of any 'mon with over 4.52% usage in Ubers. This includes staples like koraidon and kyogre, but also niche options like kingambit, ribombee, and iron treads. It's created an interesting meta without bulky grounds, limited hazard stackers and control, and a unique power level. I don't know how much information I should post about it right now or whether you want to ask questions, but we have a youtube collaboration with chompy with info, as well as usage stats, sample teams, and 'mon writeups in the discord. I really didn't expect the reddit posts or the youtube video to blow up as much as they did, but I want to help the tier get more recognition than it currently has. What should I be doing?
The tier has the exact same ruleset as Ubers, but with a banlist of any 'mon with over 4.52% usage in Ubers. This includes staples like koraidon and kyogre, but also niche options like kingambit, ribombee, and iron treads. It's created an interesting meta without bulky grounds, limited hazard stackers and control, and a unique power level. I don't know how much information I should post about it right now or whether you want to ask questions, but we have a youtube collaboration with chompy with info, as well as usage stats, sample teams, and 'mon writeups in the discord. I really didn't expect the reddit posts or the youtube video to blow up as much as they did, but I want to help the tier get more recognition than it currently has. What should I be doing?
That isn't really the realm of Other Metas. Try the Pet Mod Workshop and get feedback from there.
Chinchou1984
Banned deucer.
Metagame name: Reverse Interaction Battle
Metagame premise: Type interactions are switched, so instead of Flying being immune to Ground, Ground being immune to Electric and Water being strong against Rock and Ground, Water is instead weak to Rock and Ground while Electric is immune to Ground, who in turn is immune to Flying.
Potential bans and threats: Defensive Normal types due to no weaknesses and gaining Steel/Rock resistances and offensive Ice types because their attacks are only resisted by other Ice types.
Questions for the community: Should Normal have more weaknesses and Ice have more types that resist it for balancing purposes?
Metagame premise: Type interactions are switched, so instead of Flying being immune to Ground, Ground being immune to Electric and Water being strong against Rock and Ground, Water is instead weak to Rock and Ground while Electric is immune to Ground, who in turn is immune to Flying.
Potential bans and threats: Defensive Normal types due to no weaknesses and gaining Steel/Rock resistances and offensive Ice types because their attacks are only resisted by other Ice types.
Questions for the community: Should Normal have more weaknesses and Ice have more types that resist it for balancing purposes?
Isn't this just inverted with tweaks? Hasn't inverted already gotten the ok anyways?
Chinchou1984
Banned deucer.
wouldn’t this be way more different than inverted to the point your crunch would be 4x effective against a heracross?
Ah i see what you're goin for now my bad. Could you make a mockup of the type chart? I wanna get a good idea of how much it differs.
This is the type chart for Inverse:
| Attacking | Normal | Fire | Water | Electric | Grass | Ice | Fighting | Poison | Ground | Flying | Psychic | Bug | Rock | Ghost | Dragon | Dark | Steel | Fairy |
| Normal | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Fire | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 |
| Water | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Electric | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Grass | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Ice | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Fighting | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 2 |
| Poison | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 |
| Ground | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 |
| Flying | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Psychic | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
| Bug | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 2 |
| Rock | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Ghost | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
| Dragon | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 2 |
| Dark | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| Steel | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 |
| Fairy | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 |
And this would be the type chart for Reverse Interaction Battle:
| Attacking | Normal | Fire | Water | Electric | Grass | Ice | Fighting | Poison | Ground | Flying | Psychic | Bug | Rock | Ghost | Dragon | Dark | Steel | Fairy |
| Normal | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Fire | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 |
| Water | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 2 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 |
| Electric | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 |
| Grass | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Ice | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Fighting | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 |
| Poison | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 |
| Ground | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Flying | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Psychic | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
| Bug | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Rock | 0.5 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0.5 | 2 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Ghost | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
| Dragon | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 |
| Dark | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 2 |
| Steel | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 0.5 |
| Fairy | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0.5 | 2 | 1 |
OM Name: Reverse (might change name later, suggestions would be nice)
Premise: A Pokemon's highest base stat and lowest base stat swap, and their 2nd highest and 2nd lower and so forth.
Banned Pokemon: Every pokemon in the Anything Goes tier and the Ubers tier is banned.
Potential Threats: One huge threat to the metagame would be
. Blissey's BST is 10 HP 255 Atk 130 Def 55 SpA 10 SpD and 75 Speed. With a Choice Scarf, and a set ultilizing Body Slam, Earthquake, Ice Punch, and Trick, would hit very hard and outspeed the majority of pokemon.
Another huge threat would be. Iron Hand's BST is 50 HP 50 Atk 68 Def 154 SpA 108 SpD and 140 Speed. Since Iron Hands has Quark Drive, it could boost its speed even farther. With a set running Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, Volt Switch, and Tera Blast Flying to avoid Earthquake, would be super fast and super strong.
Q&A: Question: How would it work if a pokemon had two of the same base stats in different stats?
Answer: Pokemon like have 50 in two different base stats, Special Attack and Speed. Since Special Attack is in front of Speed, Special Attack would be the first stat swapped. If you don't understand what I mean, here's a better example.
154 HP 140 Atk 108 Def 50 SpA 68 SpD 50 Speed
__________^_______^_______^_______^______^_______^
______Best stat___2nd ____3rd_____6th____4th_____5th
Since Special Attack is shown first from left to right, Special Attack is Iron Hand's "worst stat" and would therefore swap with the HP stat.
Question: How does the mechanic work for pokemon that change form?
Answer: is a pokemon that changes form using its Zero to Hero ability. Regular would have its stats swapped and so would
Questions for the Community: Do you think that this metagame has too much alike with the metagame "Flipped"?
Do you have an idea for a better nickname than "Reversed"?
Premise: A Pokemon's highest base stat and lowest base stat swap, and their 2nd highest and 2nd lower and so forth.
Banned Pokemon: Every pokemon in the Anything Goes tier and the Ubers tier is banned.
Potential Threats: One huge threat to the metagame would be
. Blissey's BST is 10 HP 255 Atk 130 Def 55 SpA 10 SpD and 75 Speed. With a Choice Scarf, and a set ultilizing Body Slam, Earthquake, Ice Punch, and Trick, would hit very hard and outspeed the majority of pokemon.Another huge threat would be
. Iron Hand's BST is 50 HP 50 Atk 68 Def 154 SpA 108 SpD and 140 Speed. Since Iron Hands has Quark Drive, it could boost its speed even farther. With a set running Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, Volt Switch, and Tera Blast Flying to avoid Earthquake, would be super fast and super strong.Q&A: Question: How would it work if a pokemon had two of the same base stats in different stats?
Answer: Pokemon like
have 50 in two different base stats, Special Attack and Speed. Since Special Attack is in front of Speed, Special Attack would be the first stat swapped. If you don't understand what I mean, here's a better example. 154 HP 140 Atk 108 Def 50 SpA 68 SpD 50 Speed__________^_______^_______^_______^______^_______^
______Best stat___2nd ____3rd_____6th____4th_____5th
Since Special Attack is shown first from left to right, Special Attack is Iron Hand's "worst stat" and would therefore swap with the HP stat.
Question: How does the mechanic work for pokemon that change form?
Answer:
is a pokemon that changes form using its Zero to Hero ability. Regular would have its stats swapped and so would Questions for the Community: Do you think that this metagame has too much alike with the metagame "Flipped"?
Do you have an idea for a better nickname than "Reversed"?
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Any chance this idea could be revived? I have it coded and playable on Pokeliga server (called Superability), with a more refined premise so it won't go into Pet Mods territory: every ability activates twice. So, according to the definition:Metagame premise: Ability effects are doubled. Now your Blaze boosted fire moves will be overwhelmingly strong, or you can inflict actual Pressure into opponents by depleting their PP 4x faster.Megalomaniac Mons
- if it's a multiplier, it gets squared (eg Guts is 2.25x)
- if it's an additive boost/damage/heal, it gets doubled (eg Moxie, Liquid Ooze, Regenerator)
- if it has a chance of being applied the chance becomes 1-(1-chance)^2 (eg Static, Shed Skin, Harvest)
- if it's an action, the action runs twice (eg Toxic Debris)
- if it's a plain immunity or characteristic change, it's not affected (eg Levitate, Liquid Voice)
Aerilate
Analytic
Aura Break
Battery
Beads of Ruin
Blaze
Chlorophyll
Contrary (negates boosts twice, resulting in no change)
Compound Eyes
Dark Aura
Defeatist
Dragon's Maw
Dry Skin (fire weakness)
Fairy Aura
Flare Boost
Flash Fire
Flower Fift
Fluffy (contact resist, fire weakness)
Friend Guard
Fur Coat
Galvanize
Gorilla Tactics
Grass Pelt
Guts
Hadron Engine (spa boost)
Heatproof
Heavy Metal
Huge Power
Hustle
Ice Scales
Iron Fist
Light Metal
Marvel Scale
Mega Launcher
Minus
Multiscale
Neuroforce
Normalize
Orichalcum Pulse (atk boost)
Overgrow
Pixilate
Plus
Power Spot
Prism Armor
Protosynthesis
Punk Rock
Purepower
Purifying Salt (ghost resist)
Quark Drive
Quick Feet
Parental Bond (2nd hit multiplier)
Reckless
Refrigerate
Ripen
Rivalry
Rocky Payload
Sand Force
Sand Rush
Sand Veil
Serene Grace
Shadow Shield
Sharpness
Sheer Force
Simple
Slush Rush
Sniper
Snow Cloak
Solar Power (spa boost)
Solid Rock
Stakeout
Steelworker
Steely Spirit
Strong Jaw
Supreme Overlord
Surge Surfer
Swarm
Swift Swim
Sword of Ruin
Tablets of Ruin
Tangled Feet
Technician
Thick Fat
Tinted Lens
Torrent
Tough Claws
Toxic Boost
Transistor
Unburden
Vessel of Ruin
Victory Star
Analytic
Aura Break
Battery
Beads of Ruin
Blaze
Chlorophyll
Contrary (negates boosts twice, resulting in no change)
Compound Eyes
Dark Aura
Defeatist
Dragon's Maw
Dry Skin (fire weakness)
Fairy Aura
Flare Boost
Flash Fire
Flower Fift
Fluffy (contact resist, fire weakness)
Friend Guard
Fur Coat
Galvanize
Gorilla Tactics
Grass Pelt
Guts
Hadron Engine (spa boost)
Heatproof
Heavy Metal
Huge Power
Hustle
Ice Scales
Iron Fist
Light Metal
Marvel Scale
Mega Launcher
Minus
Multiscale
Neuroforce
Normalize
Orichalcum Pulse (atk boost)
Overgrow
Pixilate
Plus
Power Spot
Prism Armor
Protosynthesis
Punk Rock
Purepower
Purifying Salt (ghost resist)
Quark Drive
Quick Feet
Parental Bond (2nd hit multiplier)
Reckless
Refrigerate
Ripen
Rivalry
Rocky Payload
Sand Force
Sand Rush
Sand Veil
Serene Grace
Shadow Shield
Sharpness
Sheer Force
Simple
Slush Rush
Sniper
Snow Cloak
Solar Power (spa boost)
Solid Rock
Stakeout
Steelworker
Steely Spirit
Strong Jaw
Supreme Overlord
Surge Surfer
Swarm
Swift Swim
Sword of Ruin
Tablets of Ruin
Tangled Feet
Technician
Thick Fat
Tinted Lens
Torrent
Tough Claws
Toxic Boost
Transistor
Unburden
Vessel of Ruin
Victory Star
Aftermath
Anger Shell
As One (atk/spa boost)
Bad Dreams
Battle Bond
Beast Boost
Berserk
Cheek Pouch
Chilling Neigh
Commander (stat boost)
Competitive
Cotton Down
Dauntless Shield
Defiant
Disguise (busted damage)
Download
Dry Skin (water heal, rain heal, sun damage)
Earth Eater
Embody Aspect
Filter
Gale Wings
Gooey
Grim Neigh
Guard Dog (atk boost)
Gulp Missile (damage and defense decrease)
Hospitality
Ice Body
Innards Out
Intimidate
Intrepid Sword
Iron Barbs
Justified
Lightning Rod
Liquid Ooze
Mirror Armor
Motor Drive
Moxie
Opportunist
Poison Heal
Prankster
Rain Dish
Rattled
Regenerator
Rough Skin
Sap Sipper
Solar Power (sun damage)
Soul-Heart
Speed Boost
Stamina
Steadfast
Steam Engine
Storm Drain
Super Luck
Supersweet Syrup
Tangling Hair
Thermal Exchange (atk boost)
Triage
Volt Absorb
Water Absorb
Water Bubble (water damage, fire resist)
Water Compaction
Weak Armor
Well-Baked Body
Wind Rider
Anger Shell
As One (atk/spa boost)
Bad Dreams
Battle Bond
Beast Boost
Berserk
Cheek Pouch
Chilling Neigh
Commander (stat boost)
Competitive
Cotton Down
Dauntless Shield
Defiant
Disguise (busted damage)
Download
Dry Skin (water heal, rain heal, sun damage)
Earth Eater
Embody Aspect
Filter
Gale Wings
Gooey
Grim Neigh
Guard Dog (atk boost)
Gulp Missile (damage and defense decrease)
Hospitality
Ice Body
Innards Out
Intimidate
Intrepid Sword
Iron Barbs
Justified
Lightning Rod
Liquid Ooze
Mirror Armor
Motor Drive
Moxie
Opportunist
Poison Heal
Prankster
Rain Dish
Rattled
Regenerator
Rough Skin
Sap Sipper
Solar Power (sun damage)
Soul-Heart
Speed Boost
Stamina
Steadfast
Steam Engine
Storm Drain
Super Luck
Supersweet Syrup
Tangling Hair
Thermal Exchange (atk boost)
Triage
Volt Absorb
Water Absorb
Water Bubble (water damage, fire resist)
Water Compaction
Weak Armor
Well-Baked Body
Wind Rider
Cursed Body
Cute Charm
Effect Spore
Flame Body
Harvest
Healer
Poison Point
Poison Touch
Quick Draw
Shed Skin
Static
Stench
Toxic Chain
Cute Charm
Effect Spore
Flame Body
Harvest
Healer
Poison Point
Poison Touch
Quick Draw
Shed Skin
Static
Stench
Toxic Chain
Cud Chew
Dancer
Early Bird (sleep counter decrement)
Magic Bounce
Moody (boosts 2 random stats, decreases 2 random stats)
Pressure (PP deduction)
Toxic Debris
Dancer
Early Bird (sleep counter decrement)
Magic Bounce
Moody (boosts 2 random stats, decreases 2 random stats)
Pressure (PP deduction)
Toxic Debris
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I think a good way to see how it differs from flipped is to take a pokémon which has base stats different from each other. So for example with Ogerpon :OM Name: Reverse (might change name later, suggestions would be nice)
Premise: A Pokemon's highest base stat and lowest base stat swap, and their 2nd highest and 2nd lower and so forth.
Banned Pokemon: Every pokemon in the Anything Goes tier and the Ubers tier is banned.
Potential Threats: One huge threat to the metagame would be
Another huge threat would be
Q&A: Question: How would it work if a pokemon had two of the same base stats in different stats?
Answer: Pokemon like
__________^_______^_______^_______^______^_______^
______Best stat___2nd ____3rd_____6th____4th_____5th
Since Special Attack is shown first from left to right, Special Attack is Iron Hand's "worst stat" and would therefore swap with the HP stat.
Question: How does the mechanic work for pokemon that change form?
Answer:
Questions for the Community: Do you think that this metagame has too much alike with the metagame "Flipped"?
Do you have an idea for a better nickname than "Reversed"?
In Flipped :
[HP 80/Att 120/Def 84/SpA 60/SpD 96/Spe 110] ► [HP 110/Att 96/Def 60/SpA 84/SpD 120/Spe 80]
In Reversed (or Reserved Reversed for fun) :
[HP 80/Att 120/Def 84/SpA 60/SpD 96/Spe 110] ► [HP 110/Att 60/Def 96/SpA 120/SpD 84/Spe 80]
Let's just say that the contrast between Flipped and your metagame is very dependant of the Pokémon we're analyzing. Flipped just, well, "flip" base stats like a mirror while Reversed is more selective and compare lowest and highest ones. On that note, I wouldn't want to face Azumarill in your meta for sure
.Yeah, that was one mon I thought about and for sure I would either ban Azumarill or Huge Power.On that note, I wouldn't want to face Azumarill in your meta for sure
Forgot about Wonder Skin which gives us I Can't Believe It's Not Good As Gold on a Water/Psychic offensive and Bug/Poison Quiver Dancer(
)I forget. What does Wonder Skin even do?Forgot about Wonder Skin which gives us I Can't Believe It's Not Good As Gold on a Water/Psychic offensive and Bug/Poison Quiver Dancer(
!data wonder skinSo non-damaging moves that target the Pokémon have their accuracy reduced by 100%. This is like off-brand Good as Gold, that can't use the Good as Gold mechanic, patent or brand name because of copyright infringement laws
The problem is that, while it would play completely different from Inverse, it would still directly compete with it and often mixed up, and with Inverse complete lack of popularity lately I doubt it would do too well.
I could say the same I said to the previous one, but with Flipped instead of Inverse, we need stuff that doesn't directly compete with existing formats for a niche.OM Name: Reverse (might change name later, suggestions would be nice)
Premise: A Pokemon's highest base stat and lowest base stat swap, and their 2nd highest and 2nd lower and so forth.
Banned Pokemon: Every pokemon in the Anything Goes tier and the Ubers tier is banned.
Potential Threats: One huge threat to the metagame would be
Another huge threat would be
Q&A: Question: How would it work if a pokemon had two of the same base stats in different stats?
Answer: Pokemon like
__________^_______^_______^_______^______^_______^
______Best stat___2nd ____3rd_____6th____4th_____5th
Since Special Attack is shown first from left to right, Special Attack is Iron Hand's "worst stat" and would therefore swap with the HP stat.
Question: How does the mechanic work for pokemon that change form?
Answer:
Questions for the Community: Do you think that this metagame has too much alike with the metagame "Flipped"?
Do you have an idea for a better nickname than "Reversed"?
Yeah, as long as all abilities can be explained as "it just the same effect twice" then is a valid idea. I think it could be a fun format and we could further discuss it if you submit it, but would like to see what others think about the idea.
I would need to check how Wonder Skin is actually coded, but going off this definition, it would stay 50%, as it says "changed to 50%" not reduced by 50%, so first it becomes 50% then it becomes 50% again, would explain why a move with an acc than isn't 100% also become 50% with it instead of 45% or something. But again, comes down to how is actually coded to work.
I understand that the idea of base stats being moved around is a technique already used in Flipped, but the niche could be so much different.
Take
for example. In Flipped, Blissey's stat spread would be 55 HP 130 Atk 75 Def 10 SpA 10 SpD and 255 Speed. Personally, I have never played Flipped before, but from first glance, seems like it would be a suicide lead with Stealth Rocks and Serene Grace Body Slam. However in Reverse, has a stat spread of 10 HP 255 Atk 130 Def 55 SpA 10 SpD and 75 Speed and would be used as, most likely, a Choice Scarf sweeper.Also, here is another example from a comment above.
in a flipped format will fill its role as a bulky Swords Dance attacker, while in Reverse, would probably be a bulky Leech Seed and Spike setter.Again, I understand that moving base stats around is an idea currently used in Flipped, but in Reverse, many new possibilties could be discovered and it could be very much different from Flipped.
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The reasonably popular Showdown Trivia room question is that there's a status move whose accuracy is not changed by Wonder Skin, and that question's answer is Dark Void.
Depending on how Wonder Skin is coded in "Twice the Ability", it either sets accuracy to 50% twice or applies the proper accuracy difference to fleetingly set accuracy to 50% and then undershoot it (e.g. Will-O-Wisp has its accuracy changed from 85% to 50% to 15% in "Twice the Ability" if it pulls a "Magic: the Gathering defines exchanging life totals as adding and subtracting the proper life numbers from both players' life totals" except with status move accuracy).