Modifications

[Farewell]

Move this if necessary.

I am curious as to whether Smogon, as a large community whom consistently tests and even creates Pokemon / strategies / move sets, should consider employing their own (separate from their original server) Modification Server, and one that improves only existing Pokemon (not CAP reliant).

The reason for this thread / proposed server is to balance some Pokemon by adding a few things, meaning it is best to pick Pokemon with potential, rather than say Luvdisc.


*The standards set in this thread limit suggestion posts to the following per Pokemon:

1. Changes will only be applied to strengthen already good Pokemon in the lower tiers (BL Pokemon; UUs like Cresselia; NUs like Porygon2) to ensure these Pokemon have a shot at making it to the tier above their current level.
~Pokemon like Shiftry which could be used in OU or Ubers under the right conditions are allowed, with good explanations, just make sure the Pokemon doesn't feel gimmicky like: "Luvdisc could be a sweeper with Water Spout and Swift Swim under Rain Dance conditions!"

2. Changes must be fair (not overpowering), realistic (Yangmega can't use Focus Punch), and makes a positive difference worth considering (Yet another Stealth Rocker? Perhaps focus on a Rapid Spinner instead).

These are the only types of changes allowed:

A. Maximum of up to 3 Move/Attack Additions per Pokemon submitted per person. You can add your own Additions if someone else already added three suggestions on the same Pokemon you did, but your post must not exceed three. Moves must maintain their function; no move modifications.
~Additionally, picking the same additions as someone else is okay, just provide your own explanation. Having multiple people agree increases the likelihood it will get passed into the server Modifications.

B. Maximum of up 2 Alterations in Move pool Legality-
~Ensure you only add a two move formula such as; "Hypnosis + Nasty Plot = Legal on Crobat".
~Additionally, picking the same additions as someone else is okay, just provide your own explanation. Having multiple people agree increases the likelihood it will get passed into the server Modifications.


The 3 Best Move pool Additions and the 2 Best Move set Legality Formulas per Pokemon will be voted on and implemented into the server to make a fair way to modify Pokemon without changing them too much.


~Follow this format when suggesting Moveset Legality~


Pokemon Name:
Move Formula: A + B = Legal on ______

Explanation-
[2-3 sentence explanation of why this new legality makes a significant enough difference to be implemented. Explanation should include possible move sets that make this new Move Pool Legality useful, and / or how this legality improves the Pokemon overall.]


~Follow this format when suggesting moves to be added to a Pokemon's move pool~


Pokemon Name:
Move 1: _______

Explanation-
[2 sentence explanation on any combination of the following]
~Current and previous tiering history (i.e. suspect testing)
~Physical attributes (i.e. Wood Hammer on Shiftry because it is a tree)
~Game mechanics like typing/ability (i.e. Roost on a Flying or Levitate Pokemon)
~Special abilities (Pokedex/Anime/Movie demonstrations; i.e. Ninetails is said to read minds so perhaps it could get Psychic)
~Based on moves the Pokemon already knows (i.e. Suggesting Drill Peck because it already knows Peck)

Conclusion-
[2 closing sentences describing the help it will bring to this individual Pokemon (i.e. give it a much needed recovery move), and/or the current metagame itself.]

Move 2: [Repeat the above steps for as many moves as desired, with a maximum of 3 move/attack additions per Pokemon]


Here is an example of each formula-


Crobat
Move Formula: Nasty Plot + Hypnosis = Legal on Crobat

Explanation-
Crobat being able to use both Hypnosis and Nasty Plot will enable a whole new batch of move sets Crobat can use, allowing it to safely boost it's Special Attack safely after sleeping a foe or would-be-counter. Being a fast Sleep-inducer will allow Crobat to make a great lead hitting foes first, and getting good coverage even with just two attacks. Don't worry, Crobat's attacks are not too powerful, meaning Crobat wont be too overpowered, even when backed by Life Orb, and Hypnosis' shaky accuracy and Sleep Clause mean Crobat will have to be played right to get the best results. Special Attack movesets include:

Crobat:
Hypnosis
Nasty Plot
Air Slash / Hidden Power [Fighting]
Heat Wave



Crobat
Move 1: Gunk Shot

Explanation-
Crobat has an interesting tier history, as it has shown function and power in both UU and OU through testing and hovers in between them in the BL tier, yet currently only sees moderate function in the tier above it (OU). In spite of moderate OU usage, Crobat already has a usable stat distribution and typing which makes it a worthy candidate to gain a few additions in its movepool. Specifically, Crobat deserves to have Gunk Shot due to the fact that it not only has the ability to use similar moves like Sludge Bomb and Toxic, where it hurls a layer of poisonous sludge or "gunk" at a foe from afar, but because it can realistically be imagined to use such an attack based off its venomous mouth and powerful wings.

Conclusion-
Gunk Shot aids Crobat in adding another physical STAB attack to use off its already decent Attack stat, and isn't too overpowering because Poison as a type has limited coverage. Even with such limited coverage, neutral Gunk Shot can match Brave Bird in power, and even has a 30% chance to inflict the Poison status to make up for the many foes that resist it. Overall, adding Gunk Shot to Crobat's movepool would make not only Crobat a more fearsome foe, or teammate, but also makes Crobat a great candidate to put a much neglected move to good use.


I hope this formula is clear, and easy to follow, and allows Smogon users to find a great way to make minor changes to individual Pokemon that will add up to make a great effect on the current metagame.

 

[jumpluff]

My opposition to this stems from the fact that it's a suck of limited resources; also, 5th gen is coming soon enough. The idea is certainly interesting, though!

 

[Platyp]

Yeah, it's a neat idea, but you can only buff Pokemon so far by just adding moves to movepools. If you really wanted to buff existing Pokemon, you'd need to dig into stats as well, and it would be extremely difficult to learn a metagame where the stats aren't what you think they are.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

KINGDRA LEARNED THUNDER!

 

[Platyp]

I'm a firm believer in the idea that things need to be tested before they get done. Inside, I have a gut feeling that adding a couple of moves to a Pokemon's movepool isn't going to stir up the metagame a sufficient amount. I also don't think that there are enough Pokemon who need that "little push" to become OU. However, my sentiments are that I can't make that claim until they are tested.

In the same vein, however, I feel like you're placing too many limitations on your concept without collaborative testing. Why are three additions and two alterations the best numbers? If I were you, I would open it up to an unlimited amount of alterations first, and then work on limits later.

However, I would be intrigued to see something like this come into play. You've got my support.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

Brave Bird Head Smash Aerodactyl! YYYEEEAAAAH!!!!

I think it could be fun actually.

 

[Toaster]

We battle with Pokemon as it is given to us.

Not Pokemon as we want it to be.

Although this is a somewhat interesting idea, this was discussed before in a similar manner and was rejected.

don't get me started on Aqua Jet+Belly Drum Azumarill through.

EDIT: Not to mention this(Although I don't know if this applies here):

We don't want to see "make your own" or "what if <Pokémon> got <move>" threads Sometimes it is fun to dream up your own Pokémon, moves, traits, and towns. However, these type of threads detract from Smogon's focus on the competitive aspect of Pokémon, and as such, we do not want this board littered with them. If you wish to create this type of thread, PM your thread to a moderator for approval, but you can expect your request to be turned down more often than not. In addition, reobserve the forum-wide rule: "Do not create threads that do not support discussion. Creating an entire thread to ask a simple question is not acceptable; do a Google search for that stuff. All thread starters are required to provide a good basis for discussion in their opening post." This means that "what pokémon/move/ability is your favorite/is most overrated" threads should be considered with an "And why?" every time. When you remember that this is a competitive battling forum first and foremost, you will remember that this mindset will help to promote keen discussion beyond simple "x pokémon/move/ability is y/z" answers.

 

[Farewell]

Instead of opinions please keep posts strictly to suggestions / add-ons.

Here is my example for future reference.


Crobat
Move Formula: Nasty Plot + Hypnosis = Legal on Crobat

Explanation-
Crobat being able to use both Hypnosis and Nasty Plot will enable a whole new batch of move sets Crobat can use, allowing it to safely boost it's Special Attack safely after sleeping a foe or would-be-counter. Being a fast Sleep-inducer will allow Crobat to make a great lead hitting foes first, and getting good coverage even with just two attacks. Don't worry, Crobat's attacks are not too powerful, meaning Crobat wont be too overpowered, even when backed by Life Orb, and Hypnosis' shaky accuracy and Sleep Clause mean Crobat will have to be played right to get the best results. Special Attack movesets include:

Crobat:
Hypnosis
Nasty Plot
Air Slash / Hidden Power [Fighting]
Heat Wave



Crobat
Move 1: Gunk Shot

Explanation-
Crobat has an interesting tier history, as it has shown function and power in both UU and OU through testing and hovers in between them in the BL tier, yet currently only sees moderate function in the tier above it (OU). In spite of moderate OU usage, Crobat already has a usable stat distribution and typing which makes it a worthy candidate to gain a few additions in its movepool. Specifically, Crobat deserves to have Gunk Shot due to the fact that it not only has the ability to use similar moves like Sludge Bomb and Toxic, where it hurls a layer of poisonous sludge or "gunk" at a foe from afar, but because it can realistically be imagined to use such an attack based off its venomous mouth and powerful wings.

Conclusion-
Gunk Shot aids Crobat in adding another physical STAB attack to use off its already decent Attack stat, and isn't too overpowering because Poison as a type has limited coverage. Even with such limited coverage, neutral Gunk Shot can match Brave Bird in power, and even has a 30% chance to inflict the Poison status to make up for the many foes that resist it. Overall, adding Gunk Shot to Crobat's movepool would make not only Crobat a more fearsome foe, or teammate, but also makes Crobat a great candidate to put a much neglected move to good use.

 

[Cathy]

I am curious as to whether Smogon, as a large community whom consistently tests and even creates Pokemon / strategies / move sets, should consider employing their own (separate from their original server) Modification Server, and one that improves only existing Pokemon (not CAP reliant).

This isn't something we are planning on doing on Smogon.

The focus of Smogon is on competitive pokemon; that is, playing the same game as is found in the Nintendo games, possibly with additional rules, but no changes in mechanics.

We have a CAP project for creating new pokemon for playtesting competitive concepts via a community process. We aren't looking to endorse a second mod project at this time.