Most Generation PRNG Help / Information

[Scrying Stan]

ok, my dilemma:
i have a shiny zubat(now crobat) i caught on emerald
its IVs are 29/25/20/16/11/15 and is jolly
however, cant get a direct PD, as by using the PID finder on RNG reporter, i only get 1 result with these specfics, and its not shiny
despite this, i got the secret ID by convertng t to hex, then binary, adding it wth my traner bnary, and recombnng for a secret id
however, plugged ths nto the emloop japanese client, and try as might, t doesnt ht the only frame that has the aforementioned IV's and nature, which n emerald is 97150
it got to 97150, but i cant take that o be right

any ideas/help/suggestions?

Ok then... where did you find the zubat in particular should be able to find something out with that.

edit: and what you used to search for the pid is the wrong method of generation, method 1 generation pretty much handles gift pokemon and fixed encounters(legends and interactables such as say suddowoodo in the battle frontier).

 

[summerfox]

i randomly found it as a zubat n granite cave prior to going against brawley
and im looking for my special D specifically, so i can perhaps find a reasonable shiny frame a bit earlier thann 26 mnutes

 

[Scrying Stan]

When did you try to do the IV calculation by the way, just after catching it or only recently to try to find out what pid it generated with?

And what is the trainer ID and the Crobat's gender

 

[summerfox]

i cleaned out its EVs after i beat the elite four and sent a clone to a 4th gen game, then added levels until it was certain. then i used an AR, just to make absolute sure i had the most accurate IVs. so i only really checked IVs in 4th gen games. they dont change upon transferring to 4th gen games, do they?

 

[summerfox]

trainer ID is 21295, and crobat is male
its ability of course is inner focus, as thats the only ablity i think it has in gen 3

 

[Scrying Stan]

Ok I guess I wasn't thinking about everything..it seems you are correct on it being generated via method 1 as I sorta forgot(well I don't practice much gen 3 rng so wasn't thinking about this) but your zubat was generated with method H-1 which is reserved for wild encounters and it generates just like method 1 rng but for wild pokemon and is not that common, which makes the pid 1E1D36A5 anyway just like if it were generated with method 1 (and i know it is the pid since one of the possible 'encounter' slots for zubat is 3(frame + game seed affect what wild pokemon appears on what frame and zubat's slots are 0 2 and 3)

so with that ID and the Pid i guess I'll try the maths myself since I haven't had to actually do it so expect this post to be edited in a little bit.


Edit: Ok not really sure what is going on

1111000011101|000
1101101010010|100
1010011001011|110
-----------------
1000110000100

the overall secret id in binary when converted to decimal yields the number 4484 which well doesn't work.

 

[shiny finder]

trainer ID is 21295, and crobat is male
its ability of course is inner focus, as thats the only ablity i think it has in gen 3

Using the Calculate PID from IVs under the 4th gen tools, it shows that your SID is 31632 (plugging in your TID and SID results in the frame corresponding to those IVs being shiny). Incidentally, frames 97119 and 97147 have the same IVs/PID (and the occidentary of 97150).

edit: you could also finish importing it up to Gen IV and check the SID from there.

 

[summerfox]

alas, wherein lies my problem, as thats PID#505231013, which according to RNG, does create my crobat, but not a shiny one, or so it says. the secret IDi got from my math is either A.) 31632 which doesnt give me my shiny frame via the pokemon emerald loop client, or B.) 36576, which also fails to result in the frame i hit being shiny. i guess maybe the client just is wrong, possibly? or maybe i was incorrect in plugging t n which is also very possible

 

[summerfox]

Ok I guess I wasn't thinking about everything..it seems you are correct on it being generated via method 1 as I sorta forgot(well I don't practice much gen 3 rng so wasn't thinking about this) but your zubat was generated with method H-1 which is reserved for wild encounters and it generates just like method 1 rng but for wild pokemon and is not that common, which makes the pid 1E1D36A5 anyway just like if it were generated with method 1 (and i know it is the pid since one of the possible 'encounter' slots for zubat is 3(frame + game seed affect what wild pokemon appears on what frame and zubat's slots are 0 2 and 3)

so with that ID and the Pid i guess I'll try the maths myself since I haven't had to actually do it so expect this post to be edited in a little bit.


Edit: Ok not really sure what is going on

1111000011101|000
1101101010010|100
1010011001011|110
-----------------
1000110000100

the overall secret id in binary when converted to decimal yields the number 4484 which well doesn't work.

well, if thats the case it would be 04484 i believe, since the first 0 would be deleted

 

[summerfox]

Using the Calculate PID from IVs under the 4th gen tools, it shows that your SID is 31632 (plugging in your TID and SID results in the frame corresponding to those IVs being shiny). Incidentally, frames 97119 and 97147 have the same IVs/PID (and the occidentary of 97150).

edit: you could also finish importing it up to Gen IV and check the SID from there.

how do check the SID in a generation 4/5 game?

 

[Scrying Stan]

how do check the SID in a generation 4/5 game?

Far as I'm aware the only way to really just bluntly see your sid would be to send a clone of the crobat all the way up to gen 6 if you can and have someone look at it with power saves or similar.

 

[shiny finder]

how do check the SID in a generation 4/5 game?

Welcome to Smogon btw ^_^

I'd imagine that emloop is showing you the Method 1 spread and the frame corresponding to that spread, which as Scrying Stan pointed out is not strictly relevant. It does seem, however, that you got a Method H-1 spread either on frame 97119 or 97147, which have the exact same characteristics as the method 1 spread on frame 97150 (that's one of the interpretations of the occidentary). Since the Zubat was generated with Method H-1, you should basically ignore whatever the frames are for a Method 1 spread...that's not what you got. Does that make sense at all?

edit: Also, Scrying Stan, you have to add the 0 to the beginning of the binary to make it 16 bits, not the end.

 

[summerfox]

well, i guess...
does that mean that the emrald method one spreadsheet is relatively useless?
and similairly, how do find out what my other shiny frames are(plus i kinda didnt know what occidentary meant..im relatively new at RNG abuse)

 

[shiny finder]

well, i guess...
does that mean that the emrald method one spreadsheet is relatively useless?
and similairly, how do find out what my other shiny frames are(plus i kinda didnt know what occidentary meant..im relatively new at RNG abuse)

If something still doesn't click, don't be afraid to say so. That's why we're here :)

No, not at all. The spreadsheet would be useful for any Pokemon generated by Method 1 (i.e. a lot of the legends). Most of the time, wild Pokemon are generated by Method H-2, so it's not really helpful for them.

If you plug in a seed of 0, your TID and your SID into the main window of the RNG Reporter, you can click the "shiny only" checkbox to see what other frames turn out shiny. You can increase the max results to see more frames, but I take it you're on a retail cart so the really high ones aren't as useful.

The Occidentary can be interpreted a couple ways, which I describe here. The Method K part doesn't really apply here, but you can insert the appropriate method.

 

[Scrying Stan]

edit: Also, Scrying Stan, you have to add the 0 to the beginning of the binary to make it 16 bits, not the end.

well that explains it... well I don't really touch gen 3(I have tried it though) and I'v personally never ran into a shiny(well at random) prior to gen 6 besides a instance in gen 2(not the gyarados) and well I do normally read guides word for word but read that guide before so just jumped to the calculation and glanced at the part saying i had to add 0s to make up for the lack of numbers if it doesn't go to 16.

And a question of my own for gen 3 since I haven't been able to interpret this correctly when reading about it, do battle videos advance frames to the point at which they were recorded (if recorded at frame 1,000,000 then if you play it you instantly jump to frame 1,000,000) or do they accelerate you by increasing the amount of fps via the fact it is replaying a battle.

 

[shiny finder]

snip

haha no worries :) If you flip those 0s you should get the 31632. You also need the full 16 bits when you convert from Binary to Decimal to get your SID (you just assume the last 3 are 0).

They act as a save state so you'd jump up to frame 1,000,000. Here's the post in the research thread about it.

 

[summerfox]

well, given legendares are a bit hard to exactly RNG for, how would i go aabout using a synchronizer as well as a sweet scenter to obtain shnes?(since ik that synchronze unfortunately works not with stationaries)

also, does this mean that the ID and SID i got are/might be right after all?
and im still a bit confused how occidentary leads to my shny frame not beng the right one, or something><U

 

[Scrying Stan]

well, given legendares are a bit hard to exactly RNG for, how would i go aabout using a synchronizer as well as a sweet scenter to obtain shnes?(since ik that synchronze unfortunately works not with stationaries)

also, does this mean that the ID and SID i got are/might be right after all?
and im still a bit confused how occidentary leads to my shny frame not beng the right one, or something><U

If you want a blunt shiny(don't really care what it is just want sparkles) then use rng reporter with your tid and sid combo using method 2 which for you would be frame 5356 which is adamant.

synchronize in gen 3 work on a principle of if it activates it will drag you to the next frame(not nearest frame) that gives the nature so to get frame 5356 you would need to start the encounter with sweet scent between frame 5335 and 5356 pretty much giving you a 21 frame window to start the encounter (if you go before frame 5335 then it will drag you to frame 5335, after frame 5356 then it will drag you to frame 5359)

 

[summerfox]

thanks! after all the work i did for cute charm in heartgold, itll be nice to have something a bit easier^^U
now, to go get an adamant synchronzer natu

 

[shiny finder]

well, given legendares are a bit hard to exactly RNG for, how would i go aabout using a synchronizer as well as a sweet scenter to obtain shnes?(since ik that synchronze unfortunately works not with stationaries)

also, does this mean that the ID and SID i got are/might be right after all?
and im still a bit confused how occidentary leads to my shny frame not beng the right one, or something><U

To add on to what Stan said, this guide and this guide describe the process of wild encounters (with the former going into a little more detail about Sweet Scent/Synchronize). Strictly speaking, you would use method H-2 most of the time for wild Pokemon.

I believe it's safe to assume that a TID/SID of 21295/31632 will allow you to get shinies. If it would make you feel more confident and you're able to get the Crobat to gen VI, I'd be happy to check the exact SID for you. :)

If you choose Method 1 and input those IDs, you'll see that frame 97150 is in fact shiny. So those IDs do make the correct frame shiny. In reality though, the Zubat was generated either on frame 97119 or 97147 because it's a Method H-1 spread and not a Method 1 spread. Wild Pokemon are generated by Method H. You'll notice, however, that those two frames have a Occidentary of 97150, meaning they are exactly the same as Method 1 frame 97150. So the occidentary is actually telling you that your "shiny frame is the right one."

Basically, emloop is telling you that Method 1 frame 97150 is shiny. Method H-1 frames 97119 and 97147 are exactly the same as frame 97150 (as indicated by the occidentary), so they are shiny as well. Method H-1 frame 97150 is not the same as Method 1 frame 97150, so it's not shiny.

If you're still confused, feel free to PM me :)

 

[summerfox]

for the time beng, i have only one more question
if do what stan suggested, and usng a synchronzer and sweetscenter, would it be feesible that i' d get a shiny ths way?
also, thank you immensely for all the help youve given me

 

[shiny finder]

for the time beng, i have only one more question
if do what stan suggested, and usng a synchronzer and sweetscenter, would it be feesible that i' d get a shiny ths way?
also, thank you immensely for all the help youve given me

The synchronize would basically allow more frames to be shiny, so yeah it's feasible. It looks like you have a shiny spread on (Method 1 ;) ) frame 5356, so you wouldn't even have to wait that long!

You're very welcome! ^_^ Good luck!

 

[summerfox]

not to be needy, but t seems i have another problem><U
ive gotten everything necessary in regards to synchronizing and hitting the shiny frame
i got adamant 3 times, but when i went to check the IVs using an adamant filter...nothing
does synchronize just make me hit the nature, (and possibly PID) and keep the original frames IV values, or am i just messing something up?

 

[shiny finder]

not to be needy, but t seems i have another problem><U
ive gotten everything necessary in regards to synchronizing and hitting the shiny frame
i got adamant 3 times, but when i went to check the IVs using an adamant filter...nothing
does synchronize just make me hit the nature, (and possibly PID) and keep the original frames IV values, or am i just messing something up?

Having the synch does mess with the IVs/PID, so make sure you input the correct nature of your synch in the Synchronize field. Also try choosing all of the Method H spreads (i.e. H-1, H-2, H-4) and check for what you got there. It's possible you hit something other than H-2 again.

 

[summerfox]

so by hittng synch field, does that give me the frame i want to hit?