Tournament MPL Format Discussion Thread (APRIL FOOLS)

[roxie]

approved by ken
Hey everyone, it's that time of the year again! With MPL coming up we're re-opening the discussion about the tournament's format. This year me and ken will be hosting this edition. Last year's format consisted of:

previous format

SV x4
SS:
SM:
ORAS:
BW:

This year, we are open to a bunch of options but ultimately we want to focus on bringing the most competitive tournament this year. The first being thing that needs to be ironed out is how many slots we are aiming for. With the notion of Other Metagames being typically included inside of MWP, we as a community have collectively decided to make MPL our tier where we feature old generations. Furthermore, to increase the competitiveness of all Monotype old generations, ken has approved Tier Leaders for each respective generation. We will only consider the slot choices below, please do not suggest anything else in this thread.

SV
SV
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW

OR

SV
SV
SV
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW
DPP

OR

SV
SV
SV
SV Bo3
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW

OR

SV
SV
SV
SV
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW
DPP
ADV
GSC
RBY Bo3

Other Discussion Topics:
- How many retains should be allowed in a six-slot format or limited to one? How many retains do you think there should be in an eight-slot format, two maximum?
- Should all managers be the same price or should we base it on previous performances in Monotype Team Tournaments?
- Should MPL expand on old generational tiers and work on resources prior to the tournament starting


If you feel strongly about a certain format, now is the time to say so as well as why you feel this way. That means giving a proper explanation why you believe there should be 6 or 8 slots and which format you prefer. Shitposting will not be tolerated and will be punished via infraction, please use this thread to only make serious posts. This thread will be the only place to air concerns about MPL, once the final decision has been made by the mod team here, the format will not change.

This thread will stay open until April 22nd @ 10PM EDT and may close earlier if a format is decided sooner. Manager signups will open after this thread closes.

 

[boomp]

SV
SV
SV
SV
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW
DPP
ADV
GSC
RBY Bo3

I for one think this should be the MPL format. It will gather more players that really enjoys the old gens + might get new players who actually enjoys the GEN 1-4 Metagame. Like I can honestly see so much collabs with other rooms with this one. Which means we bring more to the community by having more players play.

 

[roxie]

Just want to formally post and say National Dex will not be included in MPL, ever. We are not adding madeup tiers like CAP and NDM into MPL ever so please don't bring it up as stated in the OP.

 

[adjustments]

if this isn't an april fools joke: 8 or 10 slots

SV:
SV:
SV:
SV/NDM:
SS:
USUM:
ORAS:
BW:

a good argument for NDM can be made for a replacement of SV4. NDM's a pretty established and unique meta that is very competitive as well. it is a breath of fresh air from SV, SS, and USUM, which it shares the best qualities of all 3.

in the 10 slots format, NDM and SV4 can both get in
SV:
SV:
SV:
SV:
SS:
USUM:
ORAS:
BW:
NDM:
Bo3:
MPL historically gets enough signups to support 10 slots, and with this years tournament having a custom avatar prize and being the TENTH edition of the tour, we will get enough for 10 slots once again.

i anticipate a huge movement to get NDM into the tour, but we will see. also lift sasha's manager ban PLEASE

 

[mushamu]

I strongly think Bo3 should be given more consideration into MPL. With the community growing a lot more over the past few months, having a Bo3 slot in MPL would be perfect to showcase people who are considered very consistent players and is very fun to watch as well. I don't feel like the argument that "you need to prep too much for it" is valid given that it's only 3 teams (Bo3 5 generations should be out of the question) and not too much. Yeah it might be a lot if you have one person building all the SV slots but this is a bad thing inherently and rather relates to a flaw in the team chemistry rather than a flaw in the slot itself. On the other hand, it could also promote more versatile building.

Bo3 has always been a pretty much mainstay in Monotype tournaments up until recently and personally I never got why it was removed with last (?) MPL. It has always been fun to watch, fun to prep for, fun to play, etc and offers a lot of versatility in one slot that would be extremely beneficial to the community as it stands right now. SV Bo3 probably works the best for this just because it has a bigger playerbase and worked pretty well the last time it was in a tournament (MWP 4?) but oldgens Bo3 has always been tried and true.

- Should MPL expand on old generational tiers and work on resources prior to the tournament starting

For DPP, it hasn't been developed and should need more work before including it in an official tournament like MPL. We shouldn't go before DPP though since stuff like RBY-ADV Monotype are pretty much entirely untested, way too unbalanced, and not very popular with the community. Perhaps we can do a tournament before it starts to see how it is and gauge interest in it, but for now I would personally like to see this format:

SV
SV
SV
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW
SV Bo3 / Oldgens Bo3 (SV/SS/SM)

Also please never do an odd number of slots since having no ties is really bad for the competitiveness of the tournament. 6 slots is really bad too since the variance becomes so much less, making each week less competitive.

 

[sasha]

I'm gonna respond and pray this isn't some AFD post cuz..like there's really no reason to delay this via an AFD prank (also kinda lame)

The third format listed in theory is cool I suppose, but I don't think there's enough resources or knowledge about Monotype RBY-DPP to really include them, though correct me if I'm wrong. I also don't really see why we should use MPL as a testing ground for those tiers if that's the intention behind it. I would suggest to actually get people working on those old gens and show some sort of substantial statistic that they wouldn't be some meme in MPL.

Please do not do 6 slot MPL, the last time we did a 6 slot tour was MWP 4 and it was pretty lame. That's a very subjective stance so I won't comment much more on it but I don't really see the need to have 6 slots or continue to have this discussion when I thought we as a community kind of agreed that we didn't enjoy it. I remember there was discussion of 6 slots having higher quality games but I don't even know if anyone has actually provided proof or argument that MWP 4 or the MPL that we had 6 slots in recently (idr which one, I managed the Milo's with Mushamu in it) had more competitive games but again correct me if I'm wrong.

IMO the only viable format is:
SV
SV
SV Bo3
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW

I personally dislike CG Bo3 but I can't suggest old gens Bo3 anyway so ...

We are not adding madeup tiers like CAP and NDM into MPL ever so please don't bring it up as stated in the OP.

NDM is FAR less "made up" than any Monotype tier below BW. It has its own PL, with decent attraction each year, and it is regularly included in National Dex World Cup, a tournament that attracts decent players here and there. I don't really think it should be in MPL either but I also don't want to dissuade others from trying to argue for its inclusion.

Generally think it's odd to propose a certain amount of formats (most of which are not good at all besides the one I pasted above) and firmly say that nothing else will be considered, unless this is an AFD post which, cringe if it is and if it's not, then I think it's pretty unnecessary to make a format discussion like this. It's not really a discussion, it's just "pick the lesser of all evils format" I understand it helps with keeping the discussion on track so you don't get 100 people talking about different formats but still not really a fan.

 

[ArkenCiel]

Given that we can't discuss other alternatives, there's only one logical answer to make the next MPL most enjoyable for everyone

12 slot MPL with 4 SV and all the oldgens reaching as far back to RBY

I don't think that needs an explanation

 

[juleocesar]

(please don't tell me this is an april fools joke!)

I will try and discuss all the suggested formats, based on previous editions as well as what I actually believe it would be best for the tournament:

SV
SV
SV
SS
USUM

5 slots are bad even if you are aiming for "better competitive environment". No bo3 also sounds non-ideal and unattractive. MPL is the premier league for monotype community, the team tournament feeling is simply stripped away by taking away options. SS and SM as the only oldgens format are also not that great given BW and ORAS have been included in past editions for years and those tiers have had actions taken to ensure they are playable at a higher level, so essentially it would be a waste not to have them included, especially with tournaments such as ORAS and BW cup currently ongoing to make sure talents of these tiers can be spotted.

SV
SV
SV
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW
DPP

Solid format, but sadly I don't think DPP has been given enough support for it to exist just yet, in the tournament that is meant to have Monotype played at its highest level. 8 players has been a good formula historically which could work but not sure how other players feel with DPP there, I just can't think of it being a good idea tbh. Also this format has the same issue as the above: no bo3.

SV
SV
SV Bo3
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW

Most ideal format IMO. 8 players, structure looks great, all supported oldgens featured. It has bo3 featured and it also provides balance between community involvement and having playing standards high, so definitely supporting this one anyway.

SV
SV
SV
SV
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW
DPP
ADV
GSC
RBY Bo3

Same reason as to why DPP shouldn't be included, I don't think the other older gens (ADV GSC RBY) should. Sadly Monotype can't be given the same OU treatment, it needs more development. 12 slots are also way too much, it would simply disperse the focus from monotype to players from other tiers that have experience in these old tiers which may not necessarily translate into high-stake competitive gameplay (because Monotype is different than OU, even if they are familiar with oldgens mechanics. Also remember RBY has no dark or steel monotype, dragon and ghost would also be unviable types so it would be a very limited metagame in multiple aspects). Current gen should always be the main focus of the tournament, with the developed oldgens to back the tournament up, I think more than 9 players is just going into the reverse direction. Not much to add up here especially given i've already provided my preferred format.

EDIT: I realized I misread formats number but I think 8 > 6 players and bo3 > no bo3 so my point remains

 

[lax]

I’d like Monotype LC to be in this tournament

approved by Attribute

 

[Mada]

I personally believe the 8 slots format are the best with preference on extra SV/BO3 slot rather than oldgens as the oldgens below BW feel very undeveloped.

SV
SV
SV
SV Bo3
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW

I think this format looks very great, although having 3 sv + 1 sv bo3 can be very overwhelming, although bo3 feels a good add.

The other format with DPP>BO3 also looks decent but if there were other options, I would pick mushamu's format with BO3 oldgens as this way you get a format with developed tiers, with strong understandable focus on cg, with 8 slots to give more players a chance, and you still have a BO3 format that just doesn't add on top of other 3 SV slots

 

[Vid]

As someone who played in earlier MPLs and will likely not play in future MPLs, I thought I would offer my insight.

One of the most significant issues in earlier MPLs was that Monotype was an OM, so we had undeveloped metagames in MPL (Mono STABmons, Mono AAA, etc.). The biggest issue we saw was the failure of Monotype UU, as it was effectively forced into MPL with no prior development. How does this relate to adding DPP or ADV to MPL? I would be against it because there has been no desire to develop a potential DPP or ADV Monotype metagame. For the record, I have proposed a better way to establish DPP (I have gotten some feedback, but there seems to be no desire to host a forum tournament to encourage metagame development), which would be better than forcing it into MPL and turning it into another Monotype UU situation where nobody is happy. Regarding Old Gens bringing in new people into the community, I'd like to point out that when we had Monotype Doubles, many Doubles players only stayed for MPL and left the community after. The best way to have the hypothetical metagame is through organic development within the Monotype community, and new people will come if the metagame seems appealing.

The best metagames to include, in my opinion, are:
SV
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW

The main reason is that all these metagames have been developed. I am unsure how many slots to include for each, but some more qualified people can debate that. Given the mistakes of previous MPLs, I will keep an eye on this thread since it piques my interest.

 

[Splash]

delete the 4th sv slot for a bo3


SV:
SV:
SV:
SS:
SM:
ORAS:
BW:
BO3: (idc if its SV bo3 or old gens bo3)

2 retains max and make manager pricing the same as it was last year

 

[TheWyvernKing]

SV:
SV:
SV:
SS:
SM:
ORAS:
BW:
BO3: (SV, SS, SM)

 

[Vodoom]

SV
SV
SV
SS
USUM
ORAS
BW
SV Bo3
Hopefully next gen we dont need to play bo3 since we can fill all slots, bo3 nice to watch but annoying to prep, keeping bo3 the same gen is better (3 different gen bo3 prep who tf will do that lol)