^ Except Gyarados outclasses Feraligatr completely as a Dragon Dancer, the only advantage Gatr has over Gyara is Torrent, which is really a lot more reliable on a Sub set than on a DD set.
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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 4
- Thread starter darkie
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Don't use Hidden Power Ice because Rayquaza already learns Ice Beam. Also, as chenman said, Dragon Pulse may be a better option, only hitting Groudon worse I think [out of things used in ubers].
A different leading Deoxys-S:
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 212HP/252 Spd/40 Atk
Ability: Pressure
Item: Choice Scarf
Moves:
-Taunt
-Trick
-Stealth Rock/Spikes
-Knock Off/Light Screen/Reflect/Focus Punch
A supporting lead, designed to cripple as many leads as possible. With a Choice Scarf, you are not going to be gambling your opening on a Speed tie with other Deoxys-S's (unless they also run Choice Scarf). You can outrightly Taunt them, or you can make sure they do nothing but set up Stealth Rock/Spikes by Tricking the Scarf onto them. You can also Trick someone else if you really want, such as Lugia, Giratina or any of the walls that think they can stall you. The last move is optional, you can run around Knocking Sashes, Life Orbs, Specs Off Kyogre, for the fun, or you can put up a Screen to help out your own teammates. If only this thing had U-Turn, then you'd be able to just U-Turn out of powerful leads like Kyogre, but such is life. If you decided to Trick someone Taunting you (Opposing Deoxys-S's), you would expect a switch (probably to something that would Pursuit you, like Tyranitar), and this is perfect timing for you to unleash a Focus Punch at whatever's coming in, just to do some damage, and then you can switch out.
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 212HP/252 Spd/40 Atk
Ability: Pressure
Item: Choice Scarf
Moves:
-Taunt
-Trick
-Stealth Rock/Spikes
-Knock Off/Light Screen/Reflect/Focus Punch
A supporting lead, designed to cripple as many leads as possible. With a Choice Scarf, you are not going to be gambling your opening on a Speed tie with other Deoxys-S's (unless they also run Choice Scarf). You can outrightly Taunt them, or you can make sure they do nothing but set up Stealth Rock/Spikes by Tricking the Scarf onto them. You can also Trick someone else if you really want, such as Lugia, Giratina or any of the walls that think they can stall you. The last move is optional, you can run around Knocking Sashes, Life Orbs, Specs Off Kyogre, for the fun, or you can put up a Screen to help out your own teammates. If only this thing had U-Turn, then you'd be able to just U-Turn out of powerful leads like Kyogre, but such is life. If you decided to Trick someone Taunting you (Opposing Deoxys-S's), you would expect a switch (probably to something that would Pursuit you, like Tyranitar), and this is perfect timing for you to unleash a Focus Punch at whatever's coming in, just to do some damage, and then you can switch out.
I didn't know that Rayquaza learnt Ice Beam!Now that it could,it can be replaced with Ice Beam.Thank you for pointing that out.
No, the main point of the set is to make sure you don't get into any speed ties, which almost always happen.
I think the main issue with that set is that if you trick while they taunt, both of you are forced to go out, unless you choose to pack some attack moves. Taunt is a fairly slly move for a scarfer, so I think that should go unless you really want to keep entry hazards down.
About DDzard, i used it in OU, but with 252 hp/252 atk (yeah, i really don't care about putting evs efficientely) and roost
I need to say that it can do quite well when you ditch some key pokes like bulky waters or rock pokes since it can actually survive a strong neutral hit to DD once more, maybe putting it in the Blaze range
Does even better in UU
The set i use is Dragon Dance/Roost/Fire Punch or Flare Blitz/Dragon Rush ( yes, Dragon Rush... maybe it's better to use Dragon Claw...)
I need to say that it can do quite well when you ditch some key pokes like bulky waters or rock pokes since it can actually survive a strong neutral hit to DD once more, maybe putting it in the Blaze range
Does even better in UU
The set i use is Dragon Dance/Roost/Fire Punch or Flare Blitz/Dragon Rush ( yes, Dragon Rush... maybe it's better to use Dragon Claw...)
Sub Petaya Empoleon
252 Spc Attack/252 Speed/4 HP Modest Petaya Berry
Surf
HP Dragon
Sub
Agility
Hits pretty much everything neutrally
With massive SPC attack you should ohko anything that is neutrally hit by that. Empoleon and something else are the only things that resist it. (I forgot the other thing).
252 Spc Attack/252 Speed/4 HP Modest Petaya Berry
Surf
HP Dragon
Sub
Agility
Hits pretty much everything neutrally
With massive SPC attack you should ohko anything that is neutrally hit by that. Empoleon and something else are the only things that resist it. (I forgot the other thing).
Really the HP dragon part?
That was the only change I made.
That is what was the point.
Not the sub petaya part.
I prob could have just said replace ice beam/grass knot on sub petaya emp with hp dragon
Except that Hp dragon doesnt even come near to OHKO'ing Flygon
how is replacing one move creative
Water/Ice is resisted by Water types only.
Surf + Torrent + STAB and resisted has like 107 BP anyway. Vastly superior to HP Dragon's base 70 (Dragon types are all hit harder by Ice Beam except Kingdra).
All HP Dragon can do better than Ice Beam is hit Kingdra harder (correct me if it does more). Which is pretty worthless considering that Ice Beam hits Grass types who can resist Surf.
Surf has great neutral coverage by itself.
First off I didn't think it was ground breaking or super creative, but i didn't want to start a new topic about it. Anyway, considering that there are a lot of waters that frequent OU it is fairly likely you match up with a water. And Surf/Ice Beam doesn't cut it, and your sweep becomes useless. It takes care of dragons for the most part, with the exception of Flygon who should be taken care of by Surf. Like I said if you look at it, a lot of things resist Surf/Ice Beam which is a problem. HP Dragon gives you an opportunity at the least to catch most pokemon in OU for at least neutral coverage. It is just another option, specially if your team has that problem on a whole.
Not enough people use Shaymin-S to warrant the usage of Ice Beam for that reason (Not saying Dragon Pulse is a better option though), hitting Groudon is a reason by itself I think.
I liked it. I don't know how well he can take hits but I can imagine that would do nasty things to most slower teams.
I liked the set. Dunno how viable it would be. I see it really good on an offensive team to just destroy any walls.
It's a good set for sure but a problem I could see is that once you're gimmick is revealed, killing a secondary counter to Dusknoir, you are wide open to the primary counters like Tyranitar.
Further more, anything that flies and has Substitute or Refresh can cause you problems. I am thinking Latias, sub-Rotom, etc. You are also dead against Bronzong.
Obviously no set is without it's faults but I am thinking you might get one kill per battle and it does nothing to cripple anything else. The best thing about WoW is that Dusknoir's main counters are very weakened when burned which helps your whole team.
You might be better off with WoW anyway since a trapped Tyranitar can only muster 28% with Pursuit and you can just laugh at him and Rest up. That's a guaranteed kill on a primary counter.
I like the Trap + Cripple idea though, very nice!
Great UU setup lead that can also counter Yanmega:
Mr. Mime@Light Clay/Leftovers (I use Light Clay, personally)
252 HP/252 Spe/4 SpA
Timid/Soundproof
-Taunt
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic
Beats Yanmega by being immune to Bug Buzz and with Light Screen up, Air Slash is a 4-5HKO while Psychic does it in 2-3 (varies with sets). Taunt prevents Roserade from sleeping or setting up as he speed ties with max speed Timid Roserades which hardly anyone runs anymore. Taunt also stops slower SR leads like Uxie, Mespirit, Omastar, etc. He can come in easily on unboosted special attacks later in the game to set up screens again as well.
He does, however, lose to Ambipom and Honchkrow leads so he needs to be paired with a sturdy physical tank like Regirock, Donphan, or Weezing. If a Honchkrow lead has split his atk/SpA EVs, though, a Reflect can allow you to switch out even with Pursuit.
He's best paired with setup sweepers like SD Drapion/Leafeon, NP Houndoom/Ninetails or Subpunch Kangeskhan/Poliwrath.
Mr. Mime@Light Clay/Leftovers (I use Light Clay, personally)
252 HP/252 Spe/4 SpA
Timid/Soundproof
-Taunt
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic
Beats Yanmega by being immune to Bug Buzz and with Light Screen up, Air Slash is a 4-5HKO while Psychic does it in 2-3 (varies with sets). Taunt prevents Roserade from sleeping or setting up as he speed ties with max speed Timid Roserades which hardly anyone runs anymore. Taunt also stops slower SR leads like Uxie, Mespirit, Omastar, etc. He can come in easily on unboosted special attacks later in the game to set up screens again as well.
He does, however, lose to Ambipom and Honchkrow leads so he needs to be paired with a sturdy physical tank like Regirock, Donphan, or Weezing. If a Honchkrow lead has split his atk/SpA EVs, though, a Reflect can allow you to switch out even with Pursuit.
He's best paired with setup sweepers like SD Drapion/Leafeon, NP Houndoom/Ninetails or Subpunch Kangeskhan/Poliwrath.
496 SpA Yanmega Air Slash vs Mr Mime: 145-172 HP (51.06 - 60.56%)Great UU setup lead that can also counter Yanmega:
Mr. Mime@Light Clay/Leftovers (I use Light Clay, personally)
252 HP/252 Spe/4 SpA
Timid/Soundproof
-Taunt
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic
Beats Yanmega by being immune to Bug Buzz and with Light Screen up, Air Slash is a 4-5HKO while Psychic does it in 2-3 (varies with sets). Taunt prevents Roserade from sleeping or setting up as he speed ties with max speed Timid Roserades which hardly anyone runs anymore. Taunt also stops slower SR leads like Uxie, Mespirit, Omastar, etc. He can come in easily on unboosted special attacks later in the game to set up screens again as well.
He does, however, lose to Ambipom and Honchkrow leads so he needs to be paired with a sturdy physical tank like Regirock, Donphan, or Weezing. If a Honchkrow lead has split his atk/SpA EVs, though, a Reflect can allow you to switch out even with Pursuit.
He's best paired with setup sweepers like SD Drapion/Leafeon, NP Houndoom/Ninetails or Subpunch Kangeskhan/Poliwrath.
With a flinch, you're screwed. Also has a good chance of flinching on the second hit, meaning you only get Light Screen up.
496 SpA Yanmega Shadow Ball vs Mr Mime: 206-244 HP (72.54 - 85.92%)
A 2HKO regardless of what you do.
189 Atk Yanmega U-turn vs Mr Mime: 171-204 HP (60.21 - 71.83%)
Yanmega lands a huge hit on its 'counter' and switches to its own counter.
Point being, you may beat Speed Boost versions of Yanmega, but watch out for Specs Tinted Lens versions. They're not uncommon as leads nowadays.
It's a counter to the lead version. No one leads with specs Yanmega.
Here is why HP Dragon is dumb: Suppose you are using it on other waters. A torrent boosted, STAB resisted surf gets 95*1.5*1.5*.5=107BP, like someone said before. HP Dragon gets...70. Surf hits harder. Ice Beam is vastly superior against all dragons except for Kingdra (well, and Palkia, if you want to go there). There is no pokemon you can outdamage by the Surf-HP Dragon combination than with the Surf-Ice Beam combination besides Kingdra. Any look at this: Kingdra often only carries attacks that come with the water, dragon typings! No one is going to try to take down Empoleon with a Kingdra, because that is counter-productive. So, to conclude, HP Dragon is much less viable than Ice Beam.
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