New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

[Chou Toshio]

Oohh let me feed the troll too.

Pidgeot has a stronger Heat Wave, U-Turn and Brave Bird. WOOT hahaha

Well, now let me post a nice set. I'm sure i posted this a while ago, but that's the definitive version (after some intensive testing and EV corrections):

Name set: Lead Blastoise

Blastoise @ Lum Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 184 HP / 252 SpA/ 72 Spe
Nature: Modest
-Hydro Pump
-Aqua Jet
-Rapid Spin
-Ice Beam/Yawn/Mirror Coat

Very simple and effective lead.
It acts like a mix of Starmie and Empoleon leads. It has reasonably high bulk and good power (to remember: Modest Blastoise has almost the same sp.atk from Timid Starmie).
It can't set SR up and doesn't have Empoleon's power: keep in mind that it can clear the field from SR while still defeating most leads (including Machamp, Infernape and Smeargle ones, that Empoleon can't beat).

Moves: Hydro Pump is necessary to grab the needed 2HKO on Machamp, Azelf, Jirachi and Metagross leads. Also provides you with a reasonably powerful attack.
Aqua Jet is to pick off weakened leads like Azelf or Smeargle before they do something mean to you.
Rapid Spin is crucial to the set. Since most leads are inclined to set up SR , you can get rid of them when needed while preserving some precious health by dealing a 2HKO on most of them.
The other move is up to you: Ice Beam is the best choice. It has good coverage, only missing water pokes. Also deals with Dragonite leads.
Yawn serves as a "phazer" or to cripple something resisting your STAB.
Mirror Coat is there for only one purpose: defreating problematic leads that Blastoise couldn't normally take, like... Empoleon and Starmie. Small world, huh O_o.
Lum Berry saves you from Machamp confusion hax, Spore, or any other crippling move out there.

EVs: The speed EVs lets you to outspeed troll Machamps with max speed, along with some other pokes like bulky Breloom. Max special attack is obvious. The rest goes to HP to further it's nice bulk.

One thing to keep in mind: if you have this poke at full health and Rotom-A is against you, if you want to, don't hesitate: Thunderbolt won't KO you, and puts you on Torrent range. It deals 94.6% - 111.6% on 4/0 versions, leaving it open for Aqua Jet. Sweet huh?
You need to be sure that you can spin rocks away before that, of course.

Wow, this is actually pretty cool. I think I would seriously consider running this.

edit: Just finished breeding a 31 / 31 / 31 / 30 / 31 / 31 modest squirtle with aqua jet. lol

 

[Efemera]

Stop feeding the troll.

As for the Blastoise, I'm agreeing with ChouToshio. That set actually looks pretty usable in OU. I like Spin leads because they render suicide leads useless. The best thing about Blastoise is probably that it doesn't lose to Metagross, Infernape, and a few of the other Pokemon that make Starmie and Empoleon less effective leads. Great set.

 

[STEELDRAGON]

I was testing many sets with the theme of +2, +1 in speed and an attacking stat, and this set has been far, the most successful set so far. It capitalizes on Latias's ban and possibly(hopefully) Salamence's ban.

Infernape @ Salac Berry/Petaya Berry
Nature: Modest/Timid
Ability: Blaze
Ivs: 30 HP
6 Def/252 Sp. Atk/Spe 252
~Substitute
~Nasty Plot
~Fire Blast
~Vacuum Wave/Grass Not/HP Ice/Focus Blast

Salac berry is the preferred berry because then it can outpace Gengar, Starmie, and just about everything else that isnt scarfed. I have 6-0ed entire teams with set, and with Vacuum Wave, Weavile and Lucario can't stop you with their priority moves, providing the Salac berry is activated. I have even beat a entire rain dance team with this monkey alone. It usually gets at least one nasty plot, and with Blaze and possibly another boost with Petaya berry, it can OHKO even Pokemon that resist it.

 

[Baldafor]

I was testing many sets with the theme of +2, +1 in speed and an attacking stat, and this set has been far, the most successful set so far. It capitializes on latias's ban and possibly(hopfeully) salamence's ban.

Infernape @Salac berry or Petaya berry
Modest/Timid Nature
Iv: 30 HP
Evs: 4 Def/ SpA 252 / Spe 252
-Substitute
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast
-Vacuum wave/Grass Not/Hidden Power Ice

Salac berry is the preferred berry because then it can outpace gengar, starmie, and just about everything else that isnt scarfed. I have 6-0ed entrire teams with set, and with Vaccuum Wave, Weavile and Lucario can't stop you with their priorty moves, provviding the salac berry is activiated. I have even beat a entire rain dance team with this monkey alone. It usally gets at least one nasty plot, and with blaze and possibly another boost with petaya berry, it can OHKO even pokemon that resist it.

I have to say, the idea is nice, but where's the coverage? You get one plot, and that's not quite enough to break everything. Vaporeon would probably stall you out of Fire Blast PP, Heatran isn't OHKO'd by Vacuum Wave.

You would need the Salac boost most definitely, any priority is gonna take you down. I am thinking it's just a bit too weak to destroy a team though, it would have to be severely crippled first, and a standard NP Ape would get that extra coverage needed to take it down.

 

[lacerta]

Infernape @Salac berry or Petaya berry
Modest/Timid Nature
Iv: 30 HP
Evs: 4 Def/ SpA 252 / Spe 252
-Substitute
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast
-Vacuum wave/Grass Not/Hidden Power Ice

Despite its accuracy, Focus Blast might actually be the best fourth move here. More or less every team these days has at least two fire resists, with the rise of Heatran, and Vacuum Wave won't be enough to break most of them...Focus Blast OHKOs Vaporeon, Swampert and Suicune and Heatran at +2.

Also, I really like the look of that Blastoise set, M-Blade.

SubSwagger Weavile
@Leftovers
Pressure
Jolly, 224HP/100SpD/184Spe
- Substitute
- Swagger
- Taunt/Punishment
- Focus Punch/Punishment

This is an unusual set, but one that can be successful under the right conditions. Whilst Swagger confuses the opponent and boosts their Attack, Substitute allows Weavile to avoid any damage incurred from that, as well as giving it a platform for subpunching. By Swaggering the opponent multiple times, even physical walls can fall to Weavile, while frail sweepers 1-2HKO themselves -fully utilising the tactic of "Stop hitting yourself".

As with all Weaviles, this Weavile's biggest problems are finding a safe switch in, and Scizor. The former is difficult, and Weavile will often have to enter on a KO, bluffing the CB Revenge Killer set. But once there, Tyranitar, Salamence, Flygon, Dragonite, Starmie and Celebi are all forced out by the threat of Ice Punch/Shard, Night Slash or Low Kick, and Weavile has an easy time setting up a substitute.
Substitute and Swagger are the platform of this set; Taunt prevents bulky Pokemon from outstalling you - Skarmory can't Whirlwind, Roost or obstinately set up hazards, Vaporeon can't Wish, Snorlax can't Curse, etc. Focus Punch takes advantage of the substitute, and has decent power and neutral coverage for a sole attack. Punishment is an option over Focus Punch - or with Focus Punch, over Taunt. It allows Weavile to use the stat boosts it gives to its own gain, becoming more powerful as Swagger is used. However it is not the preferred option, due to its poor reliability and low PP.

The EVs alow it to reach a speed of 365, outspeeding the base 115 group as well as the ubiquitous ScarfTar. Base 120s are uncommon in Standard play, but if desired the Speed EVS can be boosted to 216 in order to beat Sceptile and Dugtrio. 224 HP EVs give Weavile a total of 337 HP - a Leftovers number plus one - allowing it to make five consecutive substitutes with Leftovers recovery and no Sandstorm. This is quite important, as Swagger doesn't reliably incapacitate the opponent, so Weavile will often find itself making consecutive substitutes.
This also allows use of its ability, Pressure, to stall out low-PP moves such as ScarfTran's Fire Blast or ScarfTar's Stone Edge, before it runs out of HP for subs. The remaining EVs are placed into the better of Weavile's defense stats, allowing it to more comfortably take resisted or weak special hits.

This Weavile appreciates hazard support, especially Spikes, as Swagger forces a lot of switches; with this it can become a real pain for the opponent's team. However, a fast Hazer or physical wall would be appreciated in backup, as gambling with the RNG might occasionally leave this tiny mustelid staring down a +6 Metagross...

Also sorry for writing so much...

 

[Shizzle]

@lacerta, the basic idea behind that set looks nice, I just don't think its appropriate on Weavile, he cannot take a hit whatosever, and he doesn't get many chances to have 2 free moves.

Although a set like this works well on Regigas, with Thunder Wave and Swagger, Substitute as well, it used to work rather well, not sure how it will fare in today's metagame though :(

 

[lacerta]

With HP and Special Defense EVs, it can take resisted hits...but ideally, that Weavile wouldn't be taking a hit at all. It sets up a substitute as the opponent switches out, then Swaggers the opponent, using Substitute until they hit themselves, then repeats. Or Focus Punches, depending on the pokemon.

Regigigas works differently; Parafusion attempts to incapacitate the opponent and prevent them from moving, giving Regigigas the turns it needs to "get going". Sub/Swagger is a more offensive approach to confusion, encouraging the opponent to KO themselves whilst being unable to hit Weavile. It doesn't matter if Weavile isn't bulky enough to make an unbreakable Substitute, or if its subs are broken, because it can outspeed and make a new one whilst the other Pokemon hurts itself.

Having thought about that though, maybe the SpD EVs would be better placed in Attack...
I've tested the set a bit, although admittedly on Sneasel rather than Weavile, and it doesn't fare too badly...using Taunt means that there isn't really any way to beat it other than outspeeding with a Scarfer or Priority, or just wading through the hax.

Thanks for commenting though :)

 

[UltiMario]

@Anzu: Magnezone doesn't need to be scarfed at all, it can get ALL of its Kills with just lefties on it, it outspeeds what it needs to all the same.

@Shizzle: Actually, they have equal attack.

 

[lacerta]

It's best to just ignore him. He's just trying to wind you up with the Fearow thing, he isn't being sincere. Anyway, it isn't just Crobat versus Fearow - it's Crobat Zapdos Staraptor Dodrio Honchcrow Pidgeot versus Fearow, I don't think you even have to argue who wins there...

lol y u mad tho?

These kind of trolls are the worst kind of trolls.

 

[Instinctive]

@Anzu: Magnezone doesn't need to be scarfed at all, it can get ALL of its Kills with just lefties on it, it outspeeds what it needs to all the same.

I would say it needs scarf to kill non-scarf heatrans

 

[PI-Dimension]

Oohh let me feed the troll too.

Pidgeot has a stronger Heat Wave, U-Turn and Brave Bird. WOOT hahaha

Well, now let me post a nice set. I'm sure i posted this a while ago, but that's the definitive version (after some intensive testing and EV corrections):

Name set: Lead Blastoise

Blastoise @ Lum Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 184 HP / 252 SpA/ 72 Spe
Nature: Modest
-Hydro Pump
-Aqua Jet
-Rapid Spin
-Ice Beam/Yawn/Mirror Coat

Very simple and effective lead.
It acts like a mix of Starmie and Empoleon leads. It has reasonably high bulk and good power (to remember: Modest Blastoise has almost the same sp.atk from Timid Starmie).
It can't set SR up and doesn't have Empoleon's power: keep in mind that it can clear the field from SR while still defeating most leads (including Machamp, Infernape and Smeargle ones, that Empoleon can't beat).

Moves: Hydro Pump is necessary to grab the needed 2HKO on Machamp, Azelf, Jirachi and Metagross leads. Also provides you with a reasonably powerful attack.
Aqua Jet is to pick off weakened leads like Azelf or Smeargle before they do something mean to you.
Rapid Spin is crucial to the set. Since most leads are inclined to set up SR , you can get rid of them when needed while preserving some precious health by dealing a 2HKO on most of them.
The other move is up to you: Ice Beam is the best choice. It has good coverage, only missing water pokes. Also deals with Dragonite leads.
Yawn serves as a "phazer" or to cripple something resisting your STAB.
Mirror Coat is there for only one purpose: defeating problematic leads that Blastoise couldn't normally take, like... Empoleon and Starmie. Small world, huh O_o.
Lum Berry saves you from Machamp confusion hax, Spore, or any other crippling move out there.

EVs: The speed EVs lets you to outspeed troll Machamps with max speed, along with some other pokes like bulky Breloom. Max special attack is obvious. The rest goes to HP to further it's nice bulk.

One thing to keep in mind: if you have this poke at full health and Rotom-A is against you, if you want to, don't hesitate: Thunderbolt won't KO you, and puts you on Torrent range. A boosted Hydro Pump deals 94.6% - 111.6% on 4/0 versions, leaving it open for Aqua Jet. Sweet huh?
You need to be sure that you can spin rocks away before that, of course.

I actually run a very similar Blastoise set. Surf over Hydro Pump, and Water Spout over Ice Beam (I hate accuracy issues with Hydro Pump). It's a VERY effective set. I might try Hydro Pump/Ice Beam, as that takes care of Roserade/Dragonite leads I usually lose to.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Actually thinking more, Roserade seems like the biggest issue for Blastoise. I mean, Leaf Storm does 140% MINIMUM. There's very little that wants to try switching into roserade's storm OR sleep powder too. Obviously, if blast stayed in and ice beamed against powder, it'd win, but leaf storm is a problem.

 

[M BLADE]

Yeah, Roserade is a problem for Blastiose.

You have to make sure you can afford to take a Sleep Powder with some other poke.
I paired it with DD Cleric Dragonite so i can afford to take Sleep Powder with something else AND take a Leaf Storm. But i know not everyone is thrilled to use Clerics so...
Also, you can come later and spin Toxic Spikes away with Toise when you have a chance.
But Roserade is still a bad matchup for Blastoise, unfortunately.

 

[Chou Toshio]

That seems to be the ONLY major hole in Blastoise's armor though, so it's still impressive. Things like Celebi leads can be patched up much more easily.

 

[blasphemy1]

Any RestTalking Flying-type can patch up those issues for Blastoise. Zapdos seems to be a good candidate, as it isn't 4x weak to HP Ice (like Dragonite) in case Roserade decides to use Sleep Powder turn 1. Heatran is probably the best or next best option, too.

 

[jc104]

Obviously, if blast stayed in and ice beamed against powder, it'd win, but leaf storm is a problem.

Well it wouldn't KO (not even close.) I think you are underestimating Roserade's special defense.

Anyway, Blastoise is a fantastic lead. I wonder if you could increase the speed to outrun Defensive Rotom-A, as this will let you 2HKO it on the switch as it tries to block Rapid Spin, before it cripples you with Thunderbolt.

Blasphemy - why would you use Sleep Talk on Zapdos? It has Roost, making Rest a poor option. Heatran is a far better choice.

 

[A.K. Swashbuckler]

(_)_)=======D~~

No, seriously, I respect your efforts, I really do, and you're quite effective here, but that's because, lol, smogon. If you try to troll anyone else, you wouldn't know what hit ya. Try being more subtle, really, but it's something that comes with practice.

 

[blasphemy1]

Well it wouldn't KO (not even close.) I think you are underestimating Roserade's special defense.

Anyway, Blastoise is a fantastic lead. I wonder if you could increase the speed to outrun Defensive Rotom-A, as this will let you 2HKO it on the switch as it tries to block Rapid Spin, before it cripples you with Thunderbolt.

Blasphemy - why would you use Sleep Talk on Zapdos? It has Roost, making Rest a poor option. Heatran is a far better choice.

On the suspect ladder Breloom and Roserade are really annoying, and Roost gets rid of its grass/fighting resistances. RestTalk Zapdos can also rid itself of status conditions.

 

[Ace Emerald]

SubSwagger Weavile
@Leftovers
Pressure
Jolly, 224HP/100SpD/184Spe
- Substitute
- Swagger
- Taunt/Punishment
- Focus Punch/Punishment

This is an unusual set, but one that can be successful under the right conditions. Whilst Swagger confuses the opponent and boosts their Attack, Substitute allows Weavile to avoid any damage incurred from that, as well as giving it a platform for subpunching. By Swaggering the opponent multiple times, even physical walls can fall to Weavile, while frail sweepers 1-2HKO themselves -fully utilising the tactic of "Stop hitting yourself".

As with all Weaviles, this Weavile's biggest problems are finding a safe switch in, and Scizor. The former is difficult, and Weavile will often have to enter on a KO, bluffing the CB Revenge Killer set. But once there, Tyranitar, Salamence, Flygon, Dragonite, Starmie and Celebi are all forced out by the threat of Ice Punch/Shard, Night Slash or Low Kick, and Weavile has an easy time setting up a substitute.
Substitute and Swagger are the platform of this set; Taunt prevents bulky Pokemon from outstalling you - Skarmory can't Whirlwind, Roost or obstinately set up hazards, Vaporeon can't Wish, Snorlax can't Curse, etc. Focus Punch takes advantage of the substitute, and has decent power and neutral coverage for a sole attack. Punishment is an option over Focus Punch - or with Focus Punch, over Taunt. It allows Weavile to use the stat boosts it gives to its own gain, becoming more powerful as Swagger is used. However it is not the preferred option, due to its poor reliability and low PP.

The EVs alow it to reach a speed of 365, outspeeding the base 115 group as well as the ubiquitous ScarfTar. Base 120s are uncommon in Standard play, but if desired the Speed EVS can be boosted to 216 in order to beat Sceptile and Dugtrio. 224 HP EVs give Weavile a total of 337 HP - a Leftovers number plus one - allowing it to make five consecutive substitutes with Leftovers recovery and no Sandstorm. This is quite important, as Swagger doesn't reliably incapacitate the opponent, so Weavile will often find itself making consecutive substitutes.
This also allows use of its ability, Pressure, to stall out low-PP moves such as ScarfTran's Fire Blast or ScarfTar's Stone Edge, before it runs out of HP for subs. The remaining EVs are placed into the better of Weavile's defense stats, allowing it to more comfortably take resisted or weak special hits.

This Weavile appreciates hazard support, especially Spikes, as Swagger forces a lot of switches; with this it can become a real pain for the opponent's team. However, a fast Hazer or physical wall would be appreciated in backup, as gambling with the RNG might occasionally leave this tiny mustelid staring down a +6 Metagross...

Also sorry for writing so much...

I like the set, looks it could do some damage. I might try it sometime.

 

[nygerman]

this thing is a f-uking monster

Machamp@Flame Orb
Guts
Adament, 252 in HP and ATK 4 in spd

Close Combat
Payback
Bullet Punch
Rest

Close Combat is so powerful after a guts boost. It can 2HKO every that doesn't resist it. 2HKOs Skarmory, Forretress, and even Hippowdon. Rest is for the Flame Orb recoil. Just as your opponent sees that Machamp is fucked, it rests. Bullet Punch for Priorty and Payback 2HKOs Dusknoir after guts boost.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Any RestTalking Flying-type can patch up those issues for Blastoise. Zapdos seems to be a good candidate, as it isn't 4x weak to HP Ice (like Dragonite) in case Roserade decides to use Sleep Powder turn 1. Heatran is probably the best or next best option, too.

Rest-Talk :/

. . . very :/

Also a rest talker cannot be depended on to take down roserade before it sets up spikes/toxic spikes. Even less dependable if you are using Fire Blast Heatran.

 

[Myrmidon]

SubSwagger Weavile
@Leftovers
Pressure
Jolly, 224HP/100SpD/184Spe
- Substitute
- Swagger
- Taunt/Punishment
- Focus Punch/Punishment

Love the premise of it, and I may make a knockoff of it for an anger point Primeape...

very curious about the EVs, though; got any calcs for this? I'm especially interested in seeing how the defensive EVs let it take hits...

 

[Mazaki Anzu]

I would say it needs scarf to kill non-scarf heatrans

Or luke or agilitytross.

Anyways, most Magnezones are Scarfed for that reason I think, but that's not the point.

No, seriously, I respect your efforts, I really do.

But this is one of the few places where I can talk about Fearow for competitive batles

That weavile seems interesting, but very tricky.

I tried similar strategies (altought I never tought about Punishment to be honest) and it works sorta well

However, altought punishment seems sexy, after one swagger the power goes only from 60 base to 100 base, so goes from shitty power to decent power, nothing expectacular in the first boost.

Another interesting option could be PSYCH UP.

 

[Chap_in_Da_Hood]

Salamence
(Bulky Mence 2)
Toxic
Fly
Earthquake
Roost
Leftovers
Intimidate
Brave
252 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 4 def

Concept toxic opponent fly up in the air and stall.
If Switch, Use Earthquake to cover common switches. Most counters to this set will be faster than Salamence so when it is the second turn of fly they will go first then u can use fly and then do good damage and switch out. Also while toxic stalling in the air u will receive Leftovers. Lastly one can roost when u switch in when they plan on sending in their counter. For this set to work effectively u will want a pokemon like Flygon to come in and outspeed ur common counters which will usually be Steel, and Electric which Flygon can easily counter. Also to counter possible slow ice counters u will want to have a scizor that can easily revenge kill with bullet punch or set up a Swords Dance after ur Salamence has passed on.



Please comment on what u think could make this better. Please though do not give me comments that would make this build identical to the original bulky salamence build.

 

[STEELDRAGON]

I have to say, the idea is nice, but where's the coverage? You get one plot, and that's not quite enough to break everything. Vaporeon would probably stall you out of Fire Blast PP, Heatran isn't OHKO'd by Vacuum Wave.

You would need the Salac boost most definitely, any priority is gonna take you down. I am thinking it's just a bit too weak to destroy a team though, it would have to be severely crippled first, and a standard NP Ape would get that extra coverage needed to take it down.

This set definitly has potential, to give you and idea how powerful a +2 Blaze fireblast it can OHKO offensvie starmie and gyarados(after Stealthrock). It is faster and more powerful than a Subpetaya+agility Empeolon. However, it is much more vulnerable though. That can be aided with magnezone who can trap scizor, and keep away suicune and other bulky water types. Heatran can at least be nealry OHKOed with a +2 vaccuum wave+stealth rock. The last move depends on what you want not get walled by. Grassnot is mainly for the bulky water/ground/rock types. This can 2ko blissey after Stealth rock, This set allows infernape to be a great late game sweeper. If you have a sub up, and +2 boost, +1 speed there's almost nothing that can beat you one on one. The exception is choice scarf starmie, and therefore a pursuiter would be a excellent partner.