Metagame NP: NU (beta): Welcome to the NU Age (Combusken Banned)

[Quite Quiet]

For those that don't follow the RU UU news (Don't know why you wouldn't) I'm leaving this link here:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...l-next-salamence.3502404/page-31#post-5459376

So no more Venomoth I guess, I can't say I immediately think of anything that got notably worse with this...

Edit: I suck, don't mind me.

 

[Aragorn the King]

For those that don't follow the RU news (Don't know why you wouldn't) I'm leaving this link here:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...l-next-salamence.3502404/page-31#post-5459376

So no more Venomoth I guess, I can't say I immediately think of anything that got notably worse with this...

Well, it's actually UU news. But yeah, so sad :'( RIP moth.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Grass-types are now a bit better I guess? But then again they still have to worry about Vivillon. (And Masquerain usage increase?)

 

[TM13IceBeam]

rip moth lololololol (it was funny when i got notifs that ppl kept liking my post on the first page >_>)

doubt masquerain's usage is going to increase considering it has like lower speed and no tinted lens to actually do something outside of passing. intimidate and hydro pump might be interesting though, but its probably still better off just doing sticky web

 

[WhiteDMist]

Also did anyone try out Fletchinder yet? It seems rly cool since the ladder is filled w/ rly offensive teams (where Priority Acrobatic can come in handy) and isn't stopped by one of the best Normal/Flying resist (Doublade, it can cripple Rhydon if it runs Will-O-Wisp too :o).

The first team member of the first team I made Soulgazer :>. I know people may knock it for lacking stuff like Flare Blitz, bulk, and high Atk. But I have no qualms about comparing it as a revenge killer with BW Kangaskhan. The devastation it may cause to frail teams on its own is already amazing. I've already listed stuff like Venomoth, Vivillion, Fighting-types, Virizion, and other frail Pokemon as victims of Fletchinder. Nabbing a Swords Dance isn't impossible either, even against more offensive teams. The amazing thing is that unlike Kangaskhan, it doesn't have to rely on outpredicting an opponent with Sucker Punch. Kangaskhan might arguably be the better overall revenge killer, but it can't sweep bulky teams on its own; in comparison, Fletchinder can actually set up on some of the less threatening walls (without having to rely on the weak and slow boosting of Power-Up Punch or Work Up) and then blow holes with its itemless Acrobatics. Sure, it can't break through Rock or Steel types on its own, but none of them like taking a Will-O-Wisp on the switch. At near full HP, I've used Fletchinder to stall out burnt Doublade as well (252+ Atk burned Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Fletchinder: 90-106 (33.9 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO). Even if it can't help you too much in a battle, it can still provide some excellent chip damage for more immediately threatening teammates to ease their own sweep. As for the comment from Barton about not using max Speed because it doesn't help with anything, I beg to disagree. Max Speed allows you to outpriortize stuff like Jolly Samurott, Adamant Feraligatr, Jolly Cacturne, and Speed tie with opposing max Speed Fletchinder (this is just a list of relevant Pokemon with priority that you miss out on when not running max Speed, not saying there aren't slower or faster priority users).

 

[rob.]

Meowstic (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Thunder Wave
- Imprison

Having trouble getting past opposing Dual Screen Meowstics? Angry because Meowstic can't access taunt? Well there's a simple solution for that. Use Imprison, it prevents all opponents from using any move which is also known by the user. It's not taunt but you can still screw over Dual Screen Meowstics. You could switch up the evs in whatever way you want, the simulator generated that spread.

 

[barton]

As for the comment from Barton about not using max Speed because it doesn't help with anything, I beg to disagree. Max Speed allows you to outpriortize stuff like Jolly Samurott, Adamant Feraligatr, Jolly Cacturne, and Speed tie with opposing max Speed Fletchinder (this is just a list of relevant Pokemon with priority that you miss out on when not running max Speed, not saying there aren't slower or faster priority users).

yeah you do have a point (although i didnt realize people actually used jolly cacturne, if thats a thing, how grim) but since Gatr and Samurott are so bulky you're not doing much to them without an sd up, and most of the other common priority users are outsped anyways or would outspeed even w/max speed. i just like having the added bulk since it lets you set up on doublade much easier and generally makes switching in on things a little more comfortable, since fletchinder is so frail

 

[WhiteDMist]

yeah you do have a point (although i didnt realize people actually used jolly cacturne, if thats a thing, how grim) but since Gatr and Samurott are so bulky you're not doing much to them without an sd up, and most of the other common priority users are outsped anyways or would outspeed even w/max speed. i just like having the added bulk since it lets you set up on doublade much easier and generally makes switching in on things a little more comfortable, since fletchinder is so frail

Adamant Cacturne also outspeeds uninvested Fletchinder btw. Yeah, you may not be able to beat them without a boost, but its not that difficult to boost up. Even without a boost, Acrobatics does a hearty 39 - 46.4% to max HP Samurott (if anyone runs that much bulk at least) and a 43.2 - 51.2% chunk to 4 HP Feraligatr (since I doubt people invest in HP most of the time). A single boost and some Stealth Rock support guarantees the OHKO on Feraligatr, while having a 37.5% chance to OHKO max HP Samurott. If you burn it, Fletchinder still has to risk the Doublade boosting up since against no HP/no Def investment Fletchinder, a burnt Doublade still needs +2 to 2HKO with Shadow Claw, but a +2 burned Doublade still does 54.8 - 64.6% to max HP Fletch, meaning that Fletchinder isn't a reliable check to Doublade regardless. Yeah, max HP gives you a greater likelihood of stalling out weakened Doublade, but the cost of losing no matter what to the aforementioned threats makes it less effective in the long run, especially considering Fletchinder's poor bulk as it is. If you want to argue for max HP, please inform me of the important 2HKOs and OHKOs that it helps Fletchinder avoid so that I (and everyone else) may have a better reference to compare to.

 

[Ranger Mike]

First of all yay we don't have to run sleep talk on every mon get hyped! Second of all grass types look buffed and needed with moth squashed on one hand they were immune to sleep powder on the other they were hit hard by bug buzz. Now on to smashpass

 

[Shog]

Throh @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 96 HP / 160 Def
Adamant Nature
- Circle Throw
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Knock Off

I like NU. And I like this set. The End

 

[Ranger Mike]

Throh @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 96 HP / 160 Def
Adamant Nature
- Circle Throw
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Knock Off

I like NU. And I like this set. The End

Why would I use throh over gurdurr? Knock off might be bad but having throh's lefties knocked off is to be quite honest worse then having gurdurr's eviolite, in addition to this gurdurr has drain punch. Throh is incredibly outclassed the only niche I have found for it is on the pokebattle sets (Desperate I know) and it cites throh as an assault vest phazer tried it out on showdown it gets worn down so easily, and as a phazer it is very much so outclassed by poliwrath. (btw what do thos evs do)

 

[brightobject]

Throh @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 96 HP / 160 Def
Adamant Nature
- Circle Throw
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Knock Off

I like NU. And I like this set. The End

throh is more of a defensive pokemon, so besides knock off you'd be much better running gurdurr or something
tbh throh does much better as a mixed wall/phazer-- this is the only real set I find it can run effectively

Throh @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpDef
Careful Nature
-Circle Throw
-Bullk Up
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

Basically, take a hit, start setting up bulk ups, rest when low, and repeat. Between Rests, and Sleep Talks, Circle Throw grow in power when burned, etc. Best to use this after all ghosties have been taken out and rocks are up (obviously). Circle Throw repeatedly once at around +3, as rng will almost guarantee you some bulk ups during sleep talk anyway. Circle Throw can also take out some pokes weakened by rocks, etc on the switch-in.

 

[Arhops]

So Sceptile is NU right now, and it seems like a pretty threatening sweeper:

@ Watmel Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Natural Gift
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Rock Slide / Acrobatics​

So unless you have any idea what Natural Gift is you are probably thinking "wtf is this nub saying lmao". So for those who don't know Natural Gift is a 100 Base Power physical move that changes type based on the held berry. Watmel berries are fire type. So what this set does is you send in Sceptile and make something force a switch, during that switch you use Swords Dance. Then you can use a +2 100 base power physical fire move on the bug or other grass type that will switch in. After this you lose the berry unburden activates and you can sweep. Watch out for Fletchin-Derp and Fire Type switch ins to swords dance.

And yes Natural gift consumes the berry so its a one time thing, however it should kill at +2 so it doesnt matter. This is actually good of course because of unburden.IF YOU SEE STEELIX FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT STAY IN UNLESS YOUR AT +2

Importable:

Sceptile @ Watmel Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Natural Gift
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Rock Slide

 

[Evilfaic]

I've found AV Hariyama to be really useful. I tend to use it over Gurdurr, although Gurdurr does get Drain Punch and Mach Punch (just give Hariyama Drain Punch already, Trollfreak ;.;). At least it gets Bullet Punch and Fake Out for some priority options.

 

[skies]

One really fun Pokemon I've been experimenting with is Purugly! Purugly isn't exactly the first thing that comes to mind when you're teambuilding, but it certainly does the job! It has two cool abilities: Thick Fat and Defiant. Thick Fat is cool if you need a Fire- and Ice-type resist, while Defiant is my favorite. Defiant is cool because you know, it's Defiant. Purugly has access to STAB Return, which hurts at +2. Purugly has a blazing fast Speed of 112 as well, meaning it can get a few hits in. Fake Out / Return / Knock Off (or Sucker Punch) / U-turn is my favorite set as of right now, and it's worked nicely! It's lack of bulk and resistances really sucks tho, but it's an overall cool Pokemon I'd recommend to everyone to play around with for a bit!

 

[Ranger Mike]

no idea how it is that fast e.e anyways I was planning on giving the fat cat a spin as it seems very potent

 

[SotheBlacKnight]

So Venomoth is gone (Good!), now maybe we can hope that Durant will be banned from RU (yeah right) so we don't have to deal with it either. Oh why are there so many broken things in this tier? Ah well it's still fun.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

rip broken bug, now Vivillon and something else might be able to shine...

Gorebyss @ White Herb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Hydro Pump
- coverage move

The coverage move can be used to defeat whatever Gorebyss's teammates have trouble with. Basically Gorebyss can set up and weaken the opponent with boosted Hydro Pumps, before passing to a teammate to finish the wreckage. SmashPass's advantage is that any recipient, from physical to special attackers, can take advantage of the boosts. Good teammates could include things like CB Pangoro or Dual Screens Uxie / Mesprit to allow easier setup and passing. And of course, powerful threats like Magmortar or Durant are compulsory teammates. I'm not sure if this is the optimal EV spread, but if you don't want Gorebyss to do any sweeping you could go with max HP / max Speed.

 

[DopestDope]

snip

​

​

I was planning on using this but I was wondering what the 30 IVs in Atk and Def are for

 

[Marxman]

So Sceptile is NU right now, and it seems like a pretty threatening sweeper:

@ Watmel Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Natural Gift
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Rock Slide​

So unless you have any idea what Natural Gift is you are probably thinking "wtf is this nub saying lmao". So for those who don't know Natural Gift is a 100 Base Power physical move that changes type based on the held berry. Watmel berries are fire type. So what this set does is you send in Sceptile and make something force a switch, during that switch you use Swords Dance. Then you can use a +2 100 base power physical fire move on the bug or other grass type that will switch in. After this you lose the berry unburden activates and you can sweep. Watch out for Fletchin-Derp and Fire Type switch ins to swords dance.

Importable:

Sceptile @ Watmel Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Natural Gift
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Rock Slide

This is the first Sceptile set I've seen that I thought looked worthwhile. Losing your item is big, but having such a huge BP Fire attack will surprise-OHKO many common switch-ins to Sceptile, and that would allow a pretty high chance to sweep after a SD.

 

[Laurant]

Just wanted to add to the whole sand discussion but yes sand is very very strong in NU right now. Ive been running it since NU released and a lot of teams have problem standing up to sand by because of sheer power and speed. Many games are decided right from the start if you dont have something that can resist Stoutlands return. Hippo is indeed completely useless but allowing Stoutland and Sandslash to decimate things is a trade off that im honestly okay with.

 

[Arhops]

I was planning on using this but I was wondering what the 30 IVs in Atk and Def are for

That is an accident. :S
Sorry guys.

This is the first Sceptile set I've seen that I thought looked worthwhile. Losing your item is big, but having such a huge BP Fire attack will surprise-OHKO many common switch-ins to Sceptile, and that would allow a pretty high chance to sweep after a SD.

Not sure if you meant to word this differently but the item loss is to activate unburden.

 

[Rosen]

I just started NU a few days ago, and I thought it would be a piece of cake to ladder on. I was very wrong (my OU mindset proved to be quite useless). I haven't read through the entire thread so I don't know if this has been discussed, but here's what my still-on-OU-mode mind came up with:

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled

I used the Clefable equivalent pretty frequently, and this actually does okay down here. It doesn't hit nearly as hard after all the boosts, but still hard enough, and Magic Guard is wonderful. With Eviolite, Clefairy actually takes hits better than its fully evolved counterpart.

So, thoughts, opinions? Or has this already been covered?

 

[Marxman]

Not sure if you meant to word this differently but the item loss is to activate unburden.

Right, I brain-farted on Unburden.

Because Sceptile is so fast anyways, I would prefer a Life Orb for a more typical set over something to activate Unburden. He outspeeds every non-scarfer except Accelgor. This set looks great though, I'll give it a shot over the next few days.

 

[jake]

Lilligant (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SDef / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Petal Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Healing Wish
- Hidden Power [Rock]

shake-inspired. this has been really fun to use, and puts at least one poke out of commission every match. it's a great cleaner with SR support + something that chips away a little at the fire- and flying-types, since petal dance is so strong you can punch through a lot of them. also checks the shell smashers, barring jolly barb. fourth move is very rarely used, you can use whatever HP coverage you need or even another filler move like aromatherapy if you want.

additional notes:

1. why the fuck is every cool move illegal with protean on kecleon. aqua tail, knock off, drain punch... literally everything i would want to use is illegal with it. if a lot of good tutors come with ORAS, expect kecleon king.
2. durant is SO strong. a well-structured team with durant can punch through literally anything. crunch on durant is amazing right now too, since everyone is relying just on doublade to check it. it works well in many, many offensive cores.
3. golem isn't bad. i like it as an sr setter again this gen, even without custap boom.