I finally got
reqs after not being able to play much last week (I could've done it before but, since I knew I was gonna get them today, I took my time), so I guess it's time I post my thoughts.
When I read about the possibility of suspecting Hydra in last np thread, the first thing that came to mind was "Ugh, not again". I read
Hogg 's well-thought-out post and I could see he made some good points, but I still didn't (read: don't) think Hydreigon was broken. He mentioned that one of the reasons to test it now and not before was that, in past metas, Scarf was the most common one so obviously that wasn't gonna be broken, but I tried to remember the time we retested it two years ago and what the meta was like. As far as I know, pink core (Florges-Slowbro-Mew, although there were some variations) was still a thing back then, and it made sense for people to use Wallbreaking Hydra against those, be it LO or Specs. There was also the fact that this meta is more offensive, so if anything it had a better speed tier than now (for example, Cobalion wasn't too common, and iirc Infernape and Lucario only dropped a bit later, along with Blissey). So I had to check what was said during the
Council votes. I gotta say I dislike my post, particularly because I mention it being unable to cover everything, which isn't true because even back then 4 attacks was perfectly viable—just that Roost granted it more durability so as to actually switch in more often. However, there was next to no doubt that it was balanced back then. It's hard to think that it'd get less balanced the higher the check number, or that it's the one causing the unbalance.
One thing to mention is that, not long before testing Hydra, we'd allowed Mega Doom back saying that it wasn't that lethal because it could be rk'd, but then Limitless started using Flame Charge + NP, and some asked for it to be banned. With Hydra in, that never happened again. So I expected Dog to receive higher usage in this ladder, but I didn't find it in all of my 55 games (I did face more Haxorus, particularly Band ones, than what's healthy).
I used the same team for the last three suspects, and it was logically easier to get reqs the less threats there were, particularly when we're talking about to amazing mons such as Mence and Hydra. The only changes I did between them were trading Pursuit for EQ on Aero and Pursuit for Taunt (+ BlackGlasses) on Krook between the Zam and Mence tests, and the Celebi speed tier since I got annoyed at being so threatened by Kyurem and I didn't need the bulk to tank LO Dark Pulse anymore. Still though, my team had three mons slower than LO Hydra and none faster than Scarf so it's fair to say it was a big threat. I think that fast-paced offense needs to have at least half the team faster than the Wallbreaker sets, but that's not so much overcentralizing as adapting. Now, the only thing it could switch in risk-free was Celebi, since it didn't want to get burned by Sacred Fire/Knocked Off. However, I actually used that to my advantage (particularly when the presence of Sylveon meant Stallbreaker Hydra was less common) since it could tank the hit and, if avoiding the flinch, passing a Weakness Policy boost. Obviously, a good Hydra player should be able to not put themselves in that position, but I only laddered so that wasn't an issue. I also think that, if it didn't make the game unbalanced in the hands of a worse player, that is a small point to it not being broken. Scarf Hydra, on the other hand, was totally a non-issue. Scarf Darmanitan was a much bigger threat, since it could 2-shot my whole team with one move, lmao.
Similarly to Mence, I don't think Hydreigon is broken even if it's really really good, and has been since it came back. To the ones saying that Sylveon had really high usage in the Open... well yea, it's a great mon and Fairy is a really useful typing with or without Hydra (I don't actually remember if Florges was #1 before the Dragon's retest, but I could bet it was; and Sylveon is a complete upgrade to XY Florges). So is Conkeldurr, which in the replays
dodmen posted ended up doing much more. I guess you can say that the fact that, unlike Mega Shark for example, those drops didn't make Hydreigon lose viability, is a testament to its presence in the tier and its offensive and defensive prowess. Still though, as I said before, the threat that is Sylveon means that more Hydras are running coverage for it, which comes with cost. That is, LO with Iron Tail is forced to play carefully against bulky Water-types and Entei since getting burned is a much bigger deal (not that it appreciated it much before) and Specs is locked into an unSTAB 80 BP move that can be taken advantage of by a much higher number of setup mons than its other moves, so your team has to cover much more—plus you lose longevity. Obviously if taking out Sylveon paves the way for another mon to sweep then the cost-benefit ratio is in its favor, but that's still something to take into account. I realize nothing I said here is new to anyone so it's not gonna change you guys' minds, but I just wanted to mention it.
Finally, I think we have to take into account that, unlike DD Mence, it's not that hard to revenge kill. Like, I understand that it's a Wallbreaker, not a sweeper, but considering the offensive meta it resides in, it's still important. Salamence could turn a game around against offensive teams without Ice Shard pretty easily while being checked defensively by bulky Water-type with Ice Beam + Fairy, but the state of the meta made it thrive even more. I still voted to keep it, but it was still better imo.
I also agree that Celebi is a big elephant in the room, using SD Pass for the past months has shown me the amount of options it has. It doesn't even need to be to sweep, you can use a +2 Entei to wallbreak and pave the way for something else to clean later. It clearly has many, many checks, but it can still do a lot. Hell, yesterday I beat a freaking Roar K9 defensive team by playing more recklessly with Krookodile against Mola (in the same day, I got 6-0'd by misplaying turn 3 against a U-turn team and then giving up on doing anything at all, lmao). The fact that it's so versatile, even if you can see from team preview if it's gonna be a passer or Offensive NP, plus with all the resist Berries at its disposal, makes it pretty deadly, even if it doesn't look so threatening at first.
Tl;dr: This was fun, but I want Hydra back :'(