np: ORAS UU Stage 7 - Turn It Out

[Sam]

Conkeldurr and Sylveon have dropped to UU for the first time ever, with Celebi return after a long absence. Mega Alakazam and Mega Altaria also dropped, but they have been banned in previous stages of UU. Zapdos rose to OU, as did Amoonguss and Quagsire (who were not UU but seen regularly). Enjoy.

song: Death From Above 1979 - Turn It Out

 

[Nightingales]

Yay. Time to see if these things are actually broken. Mostly Sylveon since fairy is strong af.

Also rip zapdos.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Interesting song.

I'm just happy that Celebi's back. It was a good Pokemon when it was here, and now it's back to be probably the most solid answer to Suicune at the moment.

In terms of managing Offensive waters in the tier, I don't know how to feel about the trade-off between Zapdos and Celebi. Gyarados and Craw will have more breathing room by losing a hard check and gaining a less reliable check. Gyara + Celebi's going to be an interesting core to toy around with.

Don't know what to say about Conkeldurr and Sylveon. Neither of them really impress me as Pokemon. A lot of people are going to go ahead and mess with Specs Sylveon. Although potent, I feel like Specs really wastes Sylveon's potential to be an incredible defensive pivot that has strong damage output.

 

[Sun]

im glad to see Celebi back to uu, and 2 new toys called Sylveon and Conk, i hope this tier became better with these drops. :)

 

[Ununhexium]

Sharpedo is getting a whole lot better

 

[Euphonos]

>inb4 Shiba gets very excited with the Celebi drop

Anyway, this tier change is a pretty interesting one; Zapdos found its way home in UU to a point it's becoming one of the most integral Pokemon in any team due to its typing that served as a glue but it's so sad to be gone. While Amoonguss and Quagsire aren't seen as much as Zapdos, they're quite a formidable force to reckon with thanks to their defensive prowess and their distinctive abilities (Regenerator and Unaware, respectively), and it's quite sad to see them gone; Stall-inclined people have other options to deal with that anyway.

Conkeldurr, while not being the greatest drop, ever, deserves a big welcome in this tier due to its STAB priority move in Mach Punch (which definitely sets it apart from most bulky Fighting-types in the tier) and pretty nice bulk. I actually expect Guts being one of the most common abilities for Conkeldurr as it allows him to absorb most Status conditions and annoys most utility Pokemon. A stern warning to everyone though: while Conkeldurr is welcome in the UU tier, never underestimate Machamp with its No Guard-boosted Dynamic Punch.

Sylveon, on the other hand, is one of the most notable drops in the tier; it will definitely carry most roles Florges usually do: its higher HP means more HP will be gained by teammates from Wishing, and its Pixilate-boosted Hyper Voice dealing more damage than Florges's Moonblast despite Florges having marginally higher Special Attack (in which Choice Specs is one of the most potent sets for Sylveon). The only thing that Florges sets apart from Sylveon is its access to Synthesis which is one of the huge selling points for a Calm Mind user. I actually expect Sylveon to bring a huge impact in the tier, but not outright broken.

Finally, Celebi is pretty unpredictable in terms of movesets; its access to a plethora of moves including Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, Baton Pass, among other things makes all players facing a Celebi engage in mind games, especially by scouting sets. The reason why I said in the beginning post that Shiba would be very happy for that Celebi drop is because of the infamy of the Swords Dance + Baton Pass combination to Sharpedo that made it a popular core in the early XY era; once executed properly it will spell doom to most unprepared teams that way unless there's a Vacuum Wave / Mach Punch / Prankster Will-O-Wisp user. I expect a huge impact in here, but not outright broken.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Jesus Christ, that Honchkrow was disgusting!
So we lost Zapdos to OU, which sucks. But this makes Crawdaunt's job a whole lot easier lol.

Conk and Sylveon were discussed in the old thread, so I won't mention them. Celebi is going to be a nice addition to the tier, giving us a Baton Passer that doesn't suck and has good offensive potential. Seriously, I feel NP Sweeper Celebi should be a thing.

EDIT: We also lost Amoonguss (YES SCREW THAT STUPID ASS MUSHROOM) and Quagsire (wtf OU).

 

[Nightingales]

I can realistically see Celebi fitting on almost every playstyle due to even stat distribution and a freaking insane movepool. Balance, Stall, and Offense all stand something to gain from the flying onion.

Also, can we ban SD Pass early?

 

[Kink]

I can realistically see Celebi fitting on almost every playstyle due to even stat distribution and a freaking insane movepool. Balance, Stall, and Offense all stand something to gain from the flying onion.

Also, can we ban SD Pass early?

Sets can't be banned. There will be no complex banning on Celebi sets.

 

[Funbot28]

I think Celebi will be a good defensive pivot in the tier, as although it has 7 weaknesses, it has key resistances to common types in Water and Fighting. Stealth Rock / Giga Drain / Recover / Baton Pass is a set that I will be trying out when the ladder is updated. It can check stuff like Suicune, Mega Swampert, and non Bounce Gyarados.

Sylveon will be another cool pivot that can dish out a lot of damage at the same time. Calm Mind sets could also work as the better physical bulk and HP could work in its favor most of the time compared to Florges (it also KO'es stuff way earlier). Specs is cool, but it's kinda too slow to be hurting any offensive mons, and can only really threaten balance and maybe stall.

Conkeldurr is a cool drop that kinda reminds me of the Mamoswine, as they are both very powerful bulky hitters (but Mamo is faster and has better STABs). Guts will destroy Sableye and will make you think twice when clicking Scald with Cune. Sheer Force will also be a cool set for that immediate power, but I think guts will suit it better tbh. Assault Vest may be something to look into also. Will see how it goes, but j definitely think it will give Machamp a run for its money.

The lost of Zapdos sucks as we lost a staple mon on offence and balance that could have literally been slapped on any team and just be effective. This definitely helps Gyarados and Crawdaunt sweep better.

These are cool shifts and I think the meta will develop quite a by because of this. Victini suspect please :)

 

[57west]

I'm just so thrilled that I'll have to rebuild all my teams that had Zapados
I think the new drops are interesting, I use Celebi quite a bit in OU, and I think it will do great here as its pretty much a direct upgrade of Shaymin, and comes in freely on quite a few staples like Chesnaught, Swampert and Blissey
Sylveon doesnt add much to the tier, it does the same things as Florges and Gardevoir, though it doesnt completely outclass either since Florges has Synthesis and is a better Calm minder
Lastly even though Conkeldurr is new and shiny please don't stop using Machamp, I dont want that thing in RU

 

[Sun]

With these new drops the tier will definitely become more interesting, I predict a fall in bulky waters, given the presence of Celebi, which probably will become the best water check of the tier, for his bulk, for his movepool comprising Leaf storm + Nasty plot, Recover, ThunderWave, Baton pass (which is very useful to generate momentum), in addition to all this is a great status absorber thanks to natural cure, this ability allows Celebi to be a good scald absorber, and to enter on twave or on Toxic by part of Blissey for example. Celebi will definitely have a good use in almost all styles of building, the Nasty / SD Pass will certainly have a great use for Bulky offense, allowing pokemon like Mega Sharpedo, or mega Aerodactyl to have an increase in attack, so as to sweep more easily the opposing team; for himself Celebi, is a great Stallbreaker, manages to beat the fatty core using a combination natural cure + boosting move that allows Celebi to sweep without being limited by toxic, or a burn. Celebi is also a good glue for balance teams, coupled with the very famous Florges +Forretress + Pert core can not solve the threat CM Cune, also offering a twave support, status an absorber, an impulse generator coupled with Forretress works really well. Celebi has a great utility even in stall teams, unable as I said above to absorb status, providing S.rocks, Thunder wave, baton pass momentum, all of which are very good in a stall, which make it less passive. Our green onion has a very good speed tier, which allows to overcome various common threats in UU, as a band entei (forced to use the adamant, because it was not released in other ways, lol) LO / Specs Hydreigon, that having 98 speed base can not exceed a possible offensive celebi with max speed (what I think will be very rare, but still usable), Nidoking, just use Psychic to do great damage to this pokemon, Finally is a great check to Crawdaunt, I hope not to see Scarf Crawdaunt around to lure celebi, lol, just a giga drain to knock him out, if it is locked by the band with a water move becomes even more easy to control. I hope not to vervi bored with this analysis, now just see how it behaves and what impact it will have on the back tier, I hope that the face become more fun than before, good evening everyone :)

 

[Meru]

I just wanna use a simple SR set on celebi everybody calm down

 

[Aquadext]

| 5 | Forretress | 13.626% |

Interesting how Forretress is said by many to be worse in this meta since Zapdos (rip), Sableye and friends dropped, and overall mediocre, and yet it's one of the most used mons in the tier, even ahead of Empoleon (14th) and Tentacruel (28th), which are higher ranked hazard removers on VR (I know, usage and viability are not related, but still)

 

[Saria]

Stealth Rock user with U-turn, that you can use in offense and balance and doesn't give a shit about Scald / bulky waters. Celebi is amazing.

Now people have even less reasons to use the garbage toad with water absorb, that kinda "beats" crocune (loses to all other cunes) with PuP!!!

 

[Slowbroman]

Wait, so Amoog + Quagsire are now OU? Isn't Quag going NU-->OU the biggest rise ever?

 

[EonX]

Welp, let's dive head-first into this

Zapdos - This leaving kinda sucks. It could fit onto almost any playstyle, was a fantastic check to potent attackers in Gyarados and Crawdaunt, and was pretty reliable at virtually anything it tried to do. Will definitely be missed, but I think it will help with diversity in the tier.

Amoonguss - Not a common sight in UU, but the typing was definitely nice for quite a few teams. It was definitely getting worse with Alakazam in the tier, but it was a common sight on defensive builds.

Quagsire - Kinda sucks to lose a Water-type with reliable recovery, but there's definitely some better Water-types out there so it shouldn't be missed too much.



Conkeldurr - Conkeldurr is looking like a cool drop with priority Mach Punch, Guts to absorb status, and solid overall bulk. While Fighting is not the best defensive typing out there, especially with Alakazam, Conkeldurr has the power and coverage to discourage Psychic- and Flying-types from switching in at will. While AV is definitely going to be a viable item on Conkeldurr, its lack of special resistances makes me think something like Expert Belt or Black Belt may end up being more beneficial due to super effective coverage and tendency to spam Fighting-type moves, respectively. Sheer Force Life Orb may also be a set, but not being able to absorb status sucks when Scald is so common imo.

Sylveon - Sylveon dropping is pretty significant as it gives the tier an incredibly useful offensive answer to Hydreigon that has much more longevity and firepower than Whimsicott. What sets Sylveon apart is Pixilate, thus allowing it to use Hyper Voice. This means that Sub + DD Gyara (which got better with no Zapdos btw) can't setup reliably as Sylveon has the bulk to handle a +1 Waterfall in a pinch and KO back with Specs Hyper Voice. Its defensive set benefits similarly as it hits through Sub boosters thanks to Hyper Voice and has slightly higher HP than Florges to pass Wishes with. That said, Florges's CM set will still give it a very strong niche as a bulky Fairy that checks Dark and Fighting mons while also acting as a wincon, which is something Sylveon simply can't do that well since it lacks recovery outside of Wish.

Celebi - Definitely a surprise as I don't think very many of us saw this actually happening. We knew there was a chance, but most of us just kind of thought "nah, it'll barely hang on to torment us." Well, that didn't happen and Celebi promises to be one of the most diverse Pokemon the tier has. It was amazing in early XY (finally, a Pokemon I'm familiar with!) and it should be able to act as a supporter, sweeper, wallbreaker, and revenge killer. Great support moves in Stealth Rock, Baton Pass, U-turn, and Heal Bell alongside reliable recovery in Recover promise to allow Celebi to act as a reliable supporter and pivot. It can Baton Pass SD and NP boosts and can also use Recover with those sets to attempt it multiple times. While it's a bit difficult to sweep with SD due to a general lack of coverage, Nasty Plot is a different story as Celebi has good enough Speed, solid coverage in Earth Power, and good STAB coverage in conjuntion with Earth Power. Celebi's access to Leaf Storm also makes all-out attacker and Choice Scarf sets possible to act as a wallbreaker and revenge killer, respectively. Its best sets will probably be Baton Pass, Stealth Rock and / or Heal Bell support, and Nasty Plot. Scarf might be interesting thanks to Leaf Storm, but I kind of seeing that being confined to very specific teams that struggle with shit like Mega Beedrill and Mega Sceptile.

 

[Olly]

Stall gets absolutely smacked by these changes. Amoonguss was pretty much a stall staple and Quagsire was still a setup mon stop.

Sharpedo is getting a whole lot better

Problem is Conkeldurr will get high usage, at least initially which is a huge obstacle to sweeping with Sharpedo.

 

[Ramses]

Sylveon - Sylveon dropping is pretty significant as it gives the tier an incredibly useful offensive answer to Hydreigon that has much more longevity and firepower than Whimsicott.

Yeah, but Whimsicott is still going to remain pretty viable even with Sylveon roaming the tier. Encore + U-turn, hell even Switcheroo is enough to set it apart from it that it's viability won't be negatively impacted too much. Specs Whimi sets will probably fall out of favor, but apart from that it's still good as ever. Ntm that Sylveon is slow as bricks and Iron Tail has a tendency to hit when you least expect it, and since you said offensive answer I'm assuming you mean Specs. Specs Sylve also has no outside source of longevity, unless you do decide to run a set outside of Specs

I'm waiting for people to realize that Conkeldurr virtually has no special niche at all since Heracross does the whole Guts status absorber piece so much better than Conkeldurr ever could with it's speed and access to Swords Dance. Machamp also gives it a bit of competition since it's marginally faster and you don't miss too much power, the only difference is Drain Punch which gives it that slight edge. This literally means that it's only niche is an AV user that has recovery + a relatively powerful Mach Punch or a Sheer Force attacker. That's it.

Zapdos leaving is really going to shake the place. A lot of mons lost a very solid check that ensured they can't get too out of hand, such as Cobalion. SD + SR sets will get back into favor since Zapdos was such an omnipresent force. It's kinda ironic how a few Water-types lost a decent check to a full blown counter in Celebi (to an extent).

I just want to use a Stealth Rock set on Celebi too. Tired of all my setters losing to Suicune.

 

[Thisbemyalt]

Yeah, no. Whimsicott is still going to remain pretty viable even with Sylveon roaming the tier. Encore + U-turn, hell even Switcheroo is enough to set it apart from it that it's viability won't be negatively impacted too much. Specs Whimi sets will probably fall out of favor, but apart from that it's still good as ever. Ntm that Sylveon is slow as bricks and Iron Tail has a tendency to hit when you least expect it, and since you said offensive answer I'm assuming you mean Specs. Specs

I'm waiting for people to realize that Conkeldurr virtually has no special niche at all since Heracross does the whole Guts status absorber piece so much better than Conkeldurr ever could with it's speed and access to Swords Dance. Machamp also gives it a bit of competition since it's marginally faster and you don't miss too much power, the only difference is Drain Punch which gives it that slight edge. This literally means that it's only niche is an AV user that has recovery + a relatively powerful Mach Punch or a Sheer Force attacker. That's it.

Zapdos leaving is really going to shake the place. A lot of mons lost a very solid check that ensured they can't get too out of hand, such as Cobalion. SD + SR sets will get back into favor since Zapdos was such an omnipresent force. It's kinda ironic how a few Water-types lost a decent check to a full blown counter in Celebi (to an extent).

I just want to use a Stealth Rock set on Celebi too. Tired of all my setters losing to Suicune.

He wasn't saying whims would become unviable just that sylveon does give us a great offensive answer to hydrei

 

[rs]

So I'm obviously excited for the drops (Celebi mostly).

Losing Zapdos - Even though we did get a few cool drops, this one is really gonna hurt. Being a fantastic check to some of UU's most prominent physical attackers and also being one of the few Defoggers in the tier was a blessing for UU. It really sucks for it to leave since it was actually starting to gain some real popularity last month, being the 2nd most used Pokemon in the tier behind Salamence. I hope we can maybe get this Pokemon back in the future since it was finally starting to make its place as one of the best Pokemon in the tier

Conkeldurr - Conk is going to be an interesting addition, it actually has relatively reliable recovery with a STAB Drain Punch coming off of a base 140 Attack and an insane amount of bulk which allows it to take a hit then proceed to gain a portion of its HP back. I'm not sure what kind of set will be the most popular (as I don't think the AV set will be all that relevant in UU tbh we'll see), but looking forward to what people come up with. A Sheer Force set will be interesting just because of the insane movepool Conk actually has, with access to elemental punches, Poison Jab, etc and a Guts set will also be cool by acting as a Status absorber for all the spreaders around the tier (bulky waters central). The Speed tier obviously hurts it a bit but I could see it being another Crawdaunt, a really slow Pokemon with little to no switch-ins and access to strong priority.

Sylveon - Okay so Sylveon won't be your average wallbreaker. I see Specs being one of the most common variants, and unlike other wallbreakers like Mamoswine and Crawdaunt, Sylveon has fantastic typing (offensive AND defensive), and access to Baton Pass, which acts as a way to pivot to other teammates as counters/checks come in. Because of the aforementioned bulk and typing, I don't see its Speed tier being a huge problem at all, because it can easily take a few hits then proceed to fire off a Hyper Voice or any of its other coverage moves (Shadow Ball, Psyshock, or even HP Fire). As others have said, it kinda mitigates Florges' roles as a defensive cleric just because of the better overall bulk and access to a Pixilate Hyper Voice, which makes even uninvested Sylveon a very strong Pokemon. Florges will still have a niche over Sylveon as a CM user just because of its 1-turn recovery with Synthesis, but expect its viability to go down with the addition of Sylveon to the tier.

Celebi - To be quite honest with you guys, I wasn't expecting this to drop at all with Keldeo running rampant in OU, but regardless KING CELEBI IS BACK. I'm probably going to play around a ton a ton with this Pokemon because, its versatility, like all the other Pixie Pokemon (base 100 stat across the board Pokemon) is incredible. With access to Stealth Rock, Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, U-turn, Baton Pass, Thunder Wave, etc, there will be no way to fully know any of the sets without scouting first in game. It's typing and ability (Natural Cure) are also blessings in a tier where Waters like Suicune and status spreaders like any Scald user, Sableye, or Porygon2 are on a large majority of teams. Everyone should expect offensive and defensive sets alike to be extremely good in the current meta.

Don't really care for Pokemon like Amoonguss and Quagsire leaving, as they weren't that relevant to begin with. As EonX said, Amoonguss was losing viability with Zam and while Quagsire had reliable recovery + Unaware for set-up sweepers, with all the status spreaders, it was hard to fit on a lot of teams as a bulky water/ground when Stealth Rock setter + the bulkier Swampert was in the tier.

 

[flowsociety]

abr stall

 

[Martin]

I'd just like to make a note that Sylveon faces very heavy competition from Gardevoir in the role of a wallbreaker. While its Fairy-type STAB is weaker than that of Sylveon, its much higher SpA stat (making its coverage that much more potent) combined with STAB on Psyshock as well as not being complete bait for Steels due to the fact that it has access to Focus Blast as opposed to a painfully-weak HP Fire--giving it the edge in terms of move BP as well--just makes it very threatening when compared to Sylveon. Additionally, being able to run moves like Trick, Wisp and Taunt just give it a lot more utility with regards to what it can do to support its teammates, and with how incredibly mediocre steel trapping is in UU Baton Pass can't be used to its fullest potential like it can in OU. All of this combined with the higher speed tier just makes Gardevoir look more appealing in general than Specs Sylveon does.

That said, with Sylveon luring out stuff like Bronzong and Forry I could see this core as an example of where Sylveon works over Gardevoir:

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Baton Pass
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball / Hidden Power [Fire]

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe OR 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive / Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Close Combat / Vacuum Wave
- Grass Knot

There's prolly a better Sylve spread, but w/e I'm lazy. It uses BP in conjunction with Sylveon's ability to bait out fat steels like Forretress, Bronzong etc. who want to eat its Hyper Voices to get Infernape in on them and use the forced switch to net a free Nasty Plot and proceed to tear through stuff. This is an example of a different way of using Baton Pass to what is done in OU, using it to provide oportunities for teammates as opposed to being used in order to guarantee a trap versus a fat steel, in addition to its bog-standard momentum-grabbing utility.

 

[iNuclearCreeper]

Sylveon probably gonna be here for like 2 weeks then it's gonna be like I'm out but celebi it's like I'm staying forever aahahahaha

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

Wohoo, I'm incredibly happy that Sylveon dropped. Bulky Offense just got a new Fairy to play around with. Hopefully Sylveon will make an impact in this tier.

I'm not so hyped for Conkeldurr, but it still may have some kind of impact. Sheer Force and AssaultGuts may be fun sets to use.

Celebi dropping is unexpected, but a pretty interesting addition. I'd imagine it's going to be found on a lot of teams due to it's versatility.

RIP Thunderbird.