not as much so as u seem 2 think the alts r 2 keep those records that enable suspect votes in this case or in others just the general record safe from vaguely similar slumps (a tactic 4 the weak minded imo not 2 be rude) while still being able 2 ladder (remember ranking doesn't decrease w/ inactivity on PO)
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 1 - ...wait, I'm not Jumpman16!
- Thread starter Philip7086
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V-Generate is a physical move... Also, it's not allowed in Standard, which is what we're talking about.
This is not about entitlement. In fact, if you're a consistent player for whom the rating predicts your results correctly, then you'll have a low volatility and your CRE will decay less over time. Having a very crude approximation of someone's skill level is ultimately detrimental to the integrity of the process, whether the larger competitive Pokémon community realizes it or not.
What this boils down to, like just about everything between PO and Shoddy/PL, is that a great mechanic in Shoddy/PL got "replaced" (as it were) with an inferior but "good enough" and "easy to understand" mechanic. People honestly put too much meaning into the CRE because that was how the leaderboard was set up, without really getting what CRE means in the grand scheme of things. Shoddy's rating system knows exactly what it's saying; there's a "mean rating" (take the average of the range of ratings) that measures how good you're "expected" to be, the "volatility" represents the discrepancy between the actual results of battles and the predictions implied, and the "deviation" (take half the difference between the ratings) represents how sure it is of the mean rating. That's a lot of information! So if Kevin Garrett has rating 1682-1842, for example (I picked all of those off the top of my head lol), one could interpret that as meaning that Kevin Garrett is quite good, roughly leaderboard material, but a deviation of 160 means that he hasn't battled much and so we're not that sure of how good he is, so maybe he's not deserving of leaderboard status right now. That is all condensed into the 1442 CRE that the account has.
This is not about entitlement. In fact, if you're a consistent player for whom the rating predicts your results correctly, then you'll have a low volatility and your CRE will decay less over time. Having a very crude approximation of someone's skill level is ultimately detrimental to the integrity of the process, whether the larger competitive Pokémon community realizes it or not.
Agreeing with everyone for the brazillionth time. I've never gotten close to a major ranking, but I had 1200, hax lost, went on tilt, and was down to 1050 in four losses.
I'm really late to the party, but I'd like to share my thoughts on some of the potential suspects if that's ok:
Manaphy - Needs to be tested.
I know that there's a power creep and all this gen, but 100 across the board still seems pretty good, and when coupled with instant 100% heal, Tail Glow, inability to be stopped by status, and the great offensive type that is water, I think Manaphy at the very least needs to be tested, if not banned.
Skymin - Needs to be tested.
Great speed, Great special attack, good coverage, and the insanity that is Seed Flare when coupled with Serene Grace, this thing should probably be banned.
Attack Form Deoxys/Normal Form Deoxys - Unsure
Frailty + Power Creep seems to balance these guys out a bit, but does it really? I mean, yeah, there are things that can OHKO 'em or maybe even wall 'em, but 150/150/150 and 180/180/150 is still pretty insane offensive stats. I can understand if they stick 'round for another round, but I think they'll eventually need to be banned. The fact that they have Extreme Speed means that they ain't as weak to priority as some other frail sweepers are, unless said priority user is a ghost.
Defense Form Deoxys/Speed Form Deoxys - Fine for now
I don't really think these guys are that bad right now. Though Speed Form Deoxys in theory is still a great lead, leading in general ain't what it used to be and though it's bulkier then the other offensive forms, is incredibly fast on it's own, and has above average offensive stats, it's still fairly frail and probably has difficulty doing much of anything outside of support or being banded/specs. Defense Form is just a giant wall and seems like it would be the least broken of the Deoxys Forms assuming any of them are truly broken. I think these guys should stick 'round a little longer and see what happens.
Dory... Mole thing - Unsure
Weak to many forms of Priority and can have difficulty getting 'round certain walls may help balance the mole a bit, but being bulky enough to take most forms of priority like a champ and having ways around some of it's counters coupled with it's ability to be stupid fast in the sand and being able to hit decently hard even without setup (and even harder with setup )... I dunno. I'd say leave it for now and see what happens.
Darkrai - Needs to be tested
He hits pretty hard and fast, has really good coverage in two moves (given, one of those moves just so happens to be one of the most trolly moves in the game <_< ), and an accurate sleep move (when compared with most others ) makes for a pain of a 'mon. I'm not sure if it needs to be banned, but it should at least be tested.
Drizzletoad - Fine
This is probably just Yugioh logic coming in, but in my eyes, Rain is only as broken as the 'mons that abuses it. Now, thanks to lurking alot awhile back, Rain seems to me like it'll always be borderline on being broken since it does give some incredible support to it's abusers, but that's my outlook on it. Now, if everything or most of everything that abuses rain is broken, then... Have fun with that, guys XD
Inconsistent - Needs to be tested
I could see Inconsistent being banworthy, but not because it lacks counters, is difficult to deal with, or because it breaks Evasion Clause. I can see it being banworthy because it's simply outright bad for the game, or at least it seems to be bad for the game. It's like a double barreled game of Russian Roulette where one of the barrels just happens to be pointed at the user, and who likes that? The only sure fire counter to it seems to be luck itself... And maybe Perish Song... And I suppose Unaware could be good... Erm, point is, it introduces a lot of luck into a game that's already luck based and while removing all luck would be unreasonable (Though, I'm sure that many probably wouldn't care ), some luck can and should be removed from the game and I think Inconsistent is ok to be removed, even if abilities have never been banned before. Now, I don't think the Inconsistent users themselves should be banned do to most of them being pretty poor pokémon in general (Though, Bibarel's an awesome 'mon ) and there really not being any problems with the 'mons themselves outside of Inconsistent.
Everything else seems fine for now... Either that, or I don't really have an unbiased opinion 'bout 'em. Note that I have only been playing off and on for the past couple of days and that I'm not the best of players in general, I just figured that I'd share my opinion on things while I still had the chance :)
Manaphy - Needs to be tested.
I know that there's a power creep and all this gen, but 100 across the board still seems pretty good, and when coupled with instant 100% heal, Tail Glow, inability to be stopped by status, and the great offensive type that is water, I think Manaphy at the very least needs to be tested, if not banned.
Skymin - Needs to be tested.
Great speed, Great special attack, good coverage, and the insanity that is Seed Flare when coupled with Serene Grace, this thing should probably be banned.
Attack Form Deoxys/Normal Form Deoxys - Unsure
Frailty + Power Creep seems to balance these guys out a bit, but does it really? I mean, yeah, there are things that can OHKO 'em or maybe even wall 'em, but 150/150/150 and 180/180/150 is still pretty insane offensive stats. I can understand if they stick 'round for another round, but I think they'll eventually need to be banned. The fact that they have Extreme Speed means that they ain't as weak to priority as some other frail sweepers are, unless said priority user is a ghost.
Defense Form Deoxys/Speed Form Deoxys - Fine for now
I don't really think these guys are that bad right now. Though Speed Form Deoxys in theory is still a great lead, leading in general ain't what it used to be and though it's bulkier then the other offensive forms, is incredibly fast on it's own, and has above average offensive stats, it's still fairly frail and probably has difficulty doing much of anything outside of support or being banded/specs. Defense Form is just a giant wall and seems like it would be the least broken of the Deoxys Forms assuming any of them are truly broken. I think these guys should stick 'round a little longer and see what happens.
Dory... Mole thing - Unsure
Weak to many forms of Priority and can have difficulty getting 'round certain walls may help balance the mole a bit, but being bulky enough to take most forms of priority like a champ and having ways around some of it's counters coupled with it's ability to be stupid fast in the sand and being able to hit decently hard even without setup (and even harder with setup )... I dunno. I'd say leave it for now and see what happens.
Darkrai - Needs to be tested
He hits pretty hard and fast, has really good coverage in two moves (given, one of those moves just so happens to be one of the most trolly moves in the game <_< ), and an accurate sleep move (when compared with most others ) makes for a pain of a 'mon. I'm not sure if it needs to be banned, but it should at least be tested.
Drizzletoad - Fine
This is probably just Yugioh logic coming in, but in my eyes, Rain is only as broken as the 'mons that abuses it. Now, thanks to lurking alot awhile back, Rain seems to me like it'll always be borderline on being broken since it does give some incredible support to it's abusers, but that's my outlook on it. Now, if everything or most of everything that abuses rain is broken, then... Have fun with that, guys XD
Inconsistent - Needs to be tested
I could see Inconsistent being banworthy, but not because it lacks counters, is difficult to deal with, or because it breaks Evasion Clause. I can see it being banworthy because it's simply outright bad for the game, or at least it seems to be bad for the game. It's like a double barreled game of Russian Roulette where one of the barrels just happens to be pointed at the user, and who likes that? The only sure fire counter to it seems to be luck itself... And maybe Perish Song... And I suppose Unaware could be good... Erm, point is, it introduces a lot of luck into a game that's already luck based and while removing all luck would be unreasonable (Though, I'm sure that many probably wouldn't care ), some luck can and should be removed from the game and I think Inconsistent is ok to be removed, even if abilities have never been banned before. Now, I don't think the Inconsistent users themselves should be banned do to most of them being pretty poor pokémon in general (Though, Bibarel's an awesome 'mon ) and there really not being any problems with the 'mons themselves outside of Inconsistent.
Everything else seems fine for now... Either that, or I don't really have an unbiased opinion 'bout 'em. Note that I have only been playing off and on for the past couple of days and that I'm not the best of players in general, I just figured that I'd share my opinion on things while I still had the chance :)
Time For an update on my own personal ban list. What I feel is and isnt uber.
Yes For Ban:
Latios, Skymin, Darkrai, Inconsistent
Inconsistent: It's more for the fact that evasion is a bitch to get through. Get an evasion, defense, and Speed boost and it's gg. As I said before, "The only true counter to Inconsistent is luck." It brings otherwise useless pokes to potential uber and can 6 - 0 teams with enough stall. It's an unfair ability. It needs to be tested for Uber or banned outright.
Skymin: Fuck Skymin. This thing is the bane of my existence. Back in 4th gen I thought this thing might've had a chance at ou because I never faced it and the thing seemed so innocent. Now it's 5th gen and I hate it. Unlike Jirachi, Skymin has a semi fair Signature move in Seed Flare that it can abuse to it's hearts content. To make matters worse Air Slash is a Flinch Hax that's special which (to me) seems to make it much more of a problem with the lack of Special walls that can really wall this thing. (Nattorei can be brought down with enough hax which has plauged me more than once.) Let this thing get a sub up if you don't agree with me. You'll be pulling your hair out at the amount of times you get 6 - 0ed at this innocent little Dog hedgehog thing of hell.
Latios: It's really hard to prepare for Latios. It's got insane power and Monstrous sets that can decimate through your team. Latios has broken my team more often than not and not is pretty much nonexistant. Draco Meteor is a bitch to overcome. Period
Darkrai: People say that Darkrai is easy to take care of by priority fighting. I say that all it really has to do is get a Dark Void up and switch to a bulky Ghost. It's done it's job already. It's crippled one of your pokes to the point of uselessness and, with teammates, has gotten past your silly counter. Darkrai is a beast in the offensive role with Nasty Plot but monstrous under the supporting role with Dark Void.
On The Fence:
Deoxys Attack/Normal, Manaphy, Latias, Doryuzuu
Manaphy: I only say manaphy because I havent faced enough of them to really have an opinion. I don't see very many of these and I can usually just phase it away when it comes in. When I face more I'll have an opinion.
Deoxys Attack/Normal: Their annoying but manageable. Try and get past the fact that their Attack is off the charts and look at their Defense. It's possible to play around them with enough skill and prediction.
Latias: Once more I havent faced enough of these. Probably because there are so many Latios' running around, Latias hasn't had it's fun in the sun.
Doryuzuu: It really depends on my situation. It's got counters, it can be stopped with a simple burn and really bulky stuff can break it. However, I try not to underestimate the fact that it has one of the highest Speed stats in weather. (Isnt Floatzel faster than it with swift swim?)
No To Ban:
Drizzletoed, Droughtails, Deoxys Speed/Defense
Drizzletoed: Ok I hate rain teams. I mean really hate rain teams but the members arent as broken as you say. (Except mabye Manaphy) I say leave it alone for now.
Droughtails: This may be because I havent faced any real good Sun teamz but I honostly dont see anything wrong with it. They're kinda easy to get past.
Deoxys Defense/Speed: Magic Mirror totally walls any attempts Deoxys makes to set up in these formes. Seriously it's pathetic. I've had Zero Problems with these things. Zero Problems.
Yes For Ban:
Latios, Skymin, Darkrai, Inconsistent
Inconsistent: It's more for the fact that evasion is a bitch to get through. Get an evasion, defense, and Speed boost and it's gg. As I said before, "The only true counter to Inconsistent is luck." It brings otherwise useless pokes to potential uber and can 6 - 0 teams with enough stall. It's an unfair ability. It needs to be tested for Uber or banned outright.
Skymin: Fuck Skymin. This thing is the bane of my existence. Back in 4th gen I thought this thing might've had a chance at ou because I never faced it and the thing seemed so innocent. Now it's 5th gen and I hate it. Unlike Jirachi, Skymin has a semi fair Signature move in Seed Flare that it can abuse to it's hearts content. To make matters worse Air Slash is a Flinch Hax that's special which (to me) seems to make it much more of a problem with the lack of Special walls that can really wall this thing. (Nattorei can be brought down with enough hax which has plauged me more than once.) Let this thing get a sub up if you don't agree with me. You'll be pulling your hair out at the amount of times you get 6 - 0ed at this innocent little Dog hedgehog thing of hell.
Latios: It's really hard to prepare for Latios. It's got insane power and Monstrous sets that can decimate through your team. Latios has broken my team more often than not and not is pretty much nonexistant. Draco Meteor is a bitch to overcome. Period
Darkrai: People say that Darkrai is easy to take care of by priority fighting. I say that all it really has to do is get a Dark Void up and switch to a bulky Ghost. It's done it's job already. It's crippled one of your pokes to the point of uselessness and, with teammates, has gotten past your silly counter. Darkrai is a beast in the offensive role with Nasty Plot but monstrous under the supporting role with Dark Void.
On The Fence:
Deoxys Attack/Normal, Manaphy, Latias, Doryuzuu
Manaphy: I only say manaphy because I havent faced enough of them to really have an opinion. I don't see very many of these and I can usually just phase it away when it comes in. When I face more I'll have an opinion.
Deoxys Attack/Normal: Their annoying but manageable. Try and get past the fact that their Attack is off the charts and look at their Defense. It's possible to play around them with enough skill and prediction.
Latias: Once more I havent faced enough of these. Probably because there are so many Latios' running around, Latias hasn't had it's fun in the sun.
Doryuzuu: It really depends on my situation. It's got counters, it can be stopped with a simple burn and really bulky stuff can break it. However, I try not to underestimate the fact that it has one of the highest Speed stats in weather. (Isnt Floatzel faster than it with swift swim?)
No To Ban:
Drizzletoed, Droughtails, Deoxys Speed/Defense
Drizzletoed: Ok I hate rain teams. I mean really hate rain teams but the members arent as broken as you say. (Except mabye Manaphy) I say leave it alone for now.
Droughtails: This may be because I havent faced any real good Sun teamz but I honostly dont see anything wrong with it. They're kinda easy to get past.
Deoxys Defense/Speed: Magic Mirror totally walls any attempts Deoxys makes to set up in these formes. Seriously it's pathetic. I've had Zero Problems with these things. Zero Problems.
I've been playing a bit on PO and Smogon server for a while, but now I quit playing.
It's so annoying:
-Bibarel/Octillery's Inconsistent ripping a 6-0. Inconsistent should be banned, not the pokes.
-CM Manaphy is more broken than the tail glow everyone is talking about
-Deoxys A with the greatest Atk in the game and extremespeed. It's a beast that can virtually wallbreak anything.
-Skymin's seed flare rips even spdef skarmbliss off. Ban it now, plz :(
-Dory IMO is the best offensive pkmn in the 5th gen. In the sand he makes a lot of people cry, but we should give more time to him. I bet he'll overcentralize the metagame as did Garchomp last gen.. These two plus TTar.. :(
-Latios is a beast. Just spamming specs draco meteors and boom, u lose.
-Politoad..c'mon guys. Every player who ever played a rain team always dreamt with something like that besides Kyogre. The only problem is Manaphy abusing it.
I didn't said anything new, but we needed to go back to the suspects.
That's all folks.
It's so annoying:
-Bibarel/Octillery's Inconsistent ripping a 6-0. Inconsistent should be banned, not the pokes.
-CM Manaphy is more broken than the tail glow everyone is talking about
-Deoxys A with the greatest Atk in the game and extremespeed. It's a beast that can virtually wallbreak anything.
-Skymin's seed flare rips even spdef skarmbliss off. Ban it now, plz :(
-Dory IMO is the best offensive pkmn in the 5th gen. In the sand he makes a lot of people cry, but we should give more time to him. I bet he'll overcentralize the metagame as did Garchomp last gen.. These two plus TTar.. :(
-Latios is a beast. Just spamming specs draco meteors and boom, u lose.
-Politoad..c'mon guys. Every player who ever played a rain team always dreamt with something like that besides Kyogre. The only problem is Manaphy abusing it.
I didn't said anything new, but we needed to go back to the suspects.
That's all folks.
To everyone who is complaining about Darkrai:
It seems like the major problem you have is with a fast, accurate sleep. It would actually be possible to counter him without it, but with it, he incapacitates one of your pokes automatically. But that does not mean he is broken. I think that sleep is the suspect and is what should be banned here. No more of this Sleep Clause soft-ban (not even able to be replicated ingame!) stuff.
It seems like the major problem you have is with a fast, accurate sleep. It would actually be possible to counter him without it, but with it, he incapacitates one of your pokes automatically. But that does not mean he is broken. I think that sleep is the suspect and is what should be banned here. No more of this Sleep Clause soft-ban (not even able to be replicated ingame!) stuff.
I dont know if you were serious, but yeah, the world would ne nicer w/out sleep
@ arc tech
So you are suggesting that we ban sleep entirely? or are you being saracastic?
b/c banning sleep seems to me a little drastic... i think that it actually is darkrai that is the problem. no one complains (much) about breloom, or gengar, or venusaur. its just what you said: a fast, accurate sleep on a very powerful 'mon.
So you are suggesting that we ban sleep entirely? or are you being saracastic?
b/c banning sleep seems to me a little drastic... i think that it actually is darkrai that is the problem. no one complains (much) about breloom, or gengar, or venusaur. its just what you said: a fast, accurate sleep on a very powerful 'mon.
I think that banning sleep is going a little to far. I have not found anyother sleep abusers to be close to Uber and that darkrai is the true problem here.
Darkrai-The fact that Darkrai can survive Mach Punches that don't have Technician Life Orb power (Hitmontop/Breloom), with a deadly sleep move which is essentially instant death now unless your lucky, plus Nasty Plot to tear through things with Dark Pulse, can destroy the things that wall Dark with Focus Blast (although it will have a habit of missing when you don't want it to which sucks), plus insane speed that can carry Trick-Scarf at times to debilitate things is pretty tough. It isn't nearly as frail as people make it out to be and it is blazing fast. It is a bit too strong for OU.
Skymin dude-ban it as well. The suckiness this guy can give is annoying as heck.
Inconsistent-BAN IT!!! This thing is worse than all the others. When something that has "Counters" (and even then those moves are limited/useless/weak) can still win and turns things like Bidoof in 6-0s, the ability is banned. There is nothing wrong with banning an ability since moves have been banned, items, and it's not like the pokemon themselves would anywhere be near as powerful without it. Plus, Smeargle gets Inconsistent and can pass it. This thing is a monster. With luck this thing can put the game in the bag, or even with moderate luck, it can still be trouble. Unless fate happens to be against you, Inconsistent will always be a holy terror. And it will always be win-win, forcing the opponent to run otherwise useless stuff to counter it when you have more helpful stuff than they do. And even with counters, this thing will still turn games around and easily win. Almost all the counters are circumstantial or will rely on luck since Roar/Whirlwind can miss and the others are limited.
Manaphy-major poweful in rain with Tail Glow/Calm Mind with a 100% recovery move with rain and across the board defenses. And with defenses invested, only Stabbed Choice Specs Thunder is going to be killing (even Latios can't ohko with Specs Meteor with max hp and a ton of special defense while +3 Icebeam koes back).
Latios-High speed, high power, Draco Meteor Specs. WAY Powerful. Virtually nothing can survive and it isn't Deoxys frail.
Deoxys-A-High power and will always be at least one for one. While priority will do heavy damage, you can't rely on Mach Punch because it can survive Mach Punches even with those defenses unless it is a Breloom Punch. Plus, Psycho Boost 2 hit koes pretty much everything, Superpower rips Tyranitar/Nattorei, Extremespeed revenge kills, and it is really tough to take hits from. It can be potentally played around but you play a dangerous game since the only safe switch in is Spiritomb which is the only Pokemon that can completely destroy this (immune to Super Power, Psycho Boost, and Extremespeed while everything else is unstabbed and weaker off of Spirtombs high Special defense). Choice Scarf can revenge kill but...it is pretty obvious that you're going to be sending in a Choice Scarf/Priority in which case, Deoxys-A is just going to switch out and come back in later. It has a really good chance of taking out multiple Pokemon and it honestly doesn't care about hazards since it's not like it has much surviveability to anything anyways.
Deoxys-S is one of the best revenge killers. It can Spike but people expect that and seem to forget that it can revenge kill with good coverage as well. Plus it's fast. When people automatically assume and send in their Erufuun's, Magic Coaters, etc, you get a free hit and it can take on Deoxys-A.
Deoxys-D I guess is fine. Toxic will destroy if it lands, speedier boosts boost it, Taunt can be layed but watch out for their Taunt/Magic Coat. But compared to the others...
Skymin dude-ban it as well. The suckiness this guy can give is annoying as heck.
Inconsistent-BAN IT!!! This thing is worse than all the others. When something that has "Counters" (and even then those moves are limited/useless/weak) can still win and turns things like Bidoof in 6-0s, the ability is banned. There is nothing wrong with banning an ability since moves have been banned, items, and it's not like the pokemon themselves would anywhere be near as powerful without it. Plus, Smeargle gets Inconsistent and can pass it. This thing is a monster. With luck this thing can put the game in the bag, or even with moderate luck, it can still be trouble. Unless fate happens to be against you, Inconsistent will always be a holy terror. And it will always be win-win, forcing the opponent to run otherwise useless stuff to counter it when you have more helpful stuff than they do. And even with counters, this thing will still turn games around and easily win. Almost all the counters are circumstantial or will rely on luck since Roar/Whirlwind can miss and the others are limited.
Manaphy-major poweful in rain with Tail Glow/Calm Mind with a 100% recovery move with rain and across the board defenses. And with defenses invested, only Stabbed Choice Specs Thunder is going to be killing (even Latios can't ohko with Specs Meteor with max hp and a ton of special defense while +3 Icebeam koes back).
Latios-High speed, high power, Draco Meteor Specs. WAY Powerful. Virtually nothing can survive and it isn't Deoxys frail.
Deoxys-A-High power and will always be at least one for one. While priority will do heavy damage, you can't rely on Mach Punch because it can survive Mach Punches even with those defenses unless it is a Breloom Punch. Plus, Psycho Boost 2 hit koes pretty much everything, Superpower rips Tyranitar/Nattorei, Extremespeed revenge kills, and it is really tough to take hits from. It can be potentally played around but you play a dangerous game since the only safe switch in is Spiritomb which is the only Pokemon that can completely destroy this (immune to Super Power, Psycho Boost, and Extremespeed while everything else is unstabbed and weaker off of Spirtombs high Special defense). Choice Scarf can revenge kill but...it is pretty obvious that you're going to be sending in a Choice Scarf/Priority in which case, Deoxys-A is just going to switch out and come back in later. It has a really good chance of taking out multiple Pokemon and it honestly doesn't care about hazards since it's not like it has much surviveability to anything anyways.
Deoxys-S is one of the best revenge killers. It can Spike but people expect that and seem to forget that it can revenge kill with good coverage as well. Plus it's fast. When people automatically assume and send in their Erufuun's, Magic Coaters, etc, you get a free hit and it can take on Deoxys-A.
Deoxys-D I guess is fine. Toxic will destroy if it lands, speedier boosts boost it, Taunt can be layed but watch out for their Taunt/Magic Coat. But compared to the others...
my picks for round 1 suspect if i had 2 ban are:
darkrai-80% accuracy sleep move w/ 125 speed mean it can reliably tranq a large # of pokes w/o taking a hit + 135 spa is never something u laugh @especially w/ the coverage from focus blast + dark pulse.
skymin-subseed 101 subs no less it has an instant 2/3 max hp regen in sun; scarfmin take scarf-rachi improve it's movepool some + put it on steriods, oh + throw in a move that has a 80% chance of halving the opponent's spd.
manafy- + 3 tail glow + unstatusable in rain, rest is a no downsides 100% regen in rain.
deoxys a/n-offences + speed are insane don't forget access to extreme speed + an exeptional movepool they need 2 go enough said.
inconsistant- remove 80% OF THE SKILL FROM THE GAME Y DON"T YA
latios-i'm actually borderline here in all honesty for this stage anyway u try eating STAB specks boosted draco meteors off of 130 base special ATK + not being seriously dented, now even more capable of topping blissy than ever.
options to be further tested @ a later time:
deoxys d-incredible defences + access 2 recover to offset it's pathetic base 50 hp as well as screens + countercoat as a lesser option.
deoxys s- from personal experience i know how dam good this thing is @ setting up hazards rocks + spikes as well as dual sceening, taunting, + magic coat it's 180 base speed lets it function as an amazing support mon.
dory- in sand it is a beast jolly 252 it hits 604 speed adamant 550 speed adamant 252 405 atk however as was previously mentioned dory's meager defences make it harder 4 it 2 do it's job (again i speak as 1 who has used it himself)
chomp-actually has been ballenced by the new additions that out-speed it (although dory has 2 give chomp home field advantage 2 do so) an the addition of the balloon means that it is harder 2 spam eq than it was during it's reign of terror + locking yourself into outrage 2 ground heatran is a great idea.
kingdra-yes u r reading this right kingdra. w/ perma-rain kingdra now can abuse the fact that only 2 pokes wall it's stabs (not counting shedinja due 2 it dying 4 switching in2 rocks) empoleon + natorii + swift swim doubling it's speed yea chesto-rest kingdra in particular could develop in2 an issue.
mew- if i actually need 2 go in2 this there is something wrong.
i figure that should do it.
darkrai-80% accuracy sleep move w/ 125 speed mean it can reliably tranq a large # of pokes w/o taking a hit + 135 spa is never something u laugh @especially w/ the coverage from focus blast + dark pulse.
skymin-subseed 101 subs no less it has an instant 2/3 max hp regen in sun; scarfmin take scarf-rachi improve it's movepool some + put it on steriods, oh + throw in a move that has a 80% chance of halving the opponent's spd.
manafy- + 3 tail glow + unstatusable in rain, rest is a no downsides 100% regen in rain.
deoxys a/n-offences + speed are insane don't forget access to extreme speed + an exeptional movepool they need 2 go enough said.
inconsistant- remove 80% OF THE SKILL FROM THE GAME Y DON"T YA
latios-i'm actually borderline here in all honesty for this stage anyway u try eating STAB specks boosted draco meteors off of 130 base special ATK + not being seriously dented, now even more capable of topping blissy than ever.
options to be further tested @ a later time:
deoxys d-incredible defences + access 2 recover to offset it's pathetic base 50 hp as well as screens + countercoat as a lesser option.
deoxys s- from personal experience i know how dam good this thing is @ setting up hazards rocks + spikes as well as dual sceening, taunting, + magic coat it's 180 base speed lets it function as an amazing support mon.
dory- in sand it is a beast jolly 252 it hits 604 speed adamant 550 speed adamant 252 405 atk however as was previously mentioned dory's meager defences make it harder 4 it 2 do it's job (again i speak as 1 who has used it himself)
chomp-actually has been ballenced by the new additions that out-speed it (although dory has 2 give chomp home field advantage 2 do so) an the addition of the balloon means that it is harder 2 spam eq than it was during it's reign of terror + locking yourself into outrage 2 ground heatran is a great idea.
kingdra-yes u r reading this right kingdra. w/ perma-rain kingdra now can abuse the fact that only 2 pokes wall it's stabs (not counting shedinja due 2 it dying 4 switching in2 rocks) empoleon + natorii + swift swim doubling it's speed yea chesto-rest kingdra in particular could develop in2 an issue.
mew- if i actually need 2 go in2 this there is something wrong.
i figure that should do it.
People have talked enough about WHY this and WHY that . . . so I don't think I'd need to go into detail . . .
To Ban [must] (in order . . .):
Inconsistant
Darkrai
Shaymin-S
Don't need to ban possibly but the game definitely would be better without (read: really deserve bans frankly):
Latios (really ought to get banned!!!)
Manaphy (should be banned)
Dory (I'd be happy to see it banned, but . . . :S)
Kingdra (personally don't think but . . . but I can appreciate the anti-sentiment)
borderline:
Deoxys-A (really dunno about deo-n, I'll wait until I actually fight one . . .)
Wobb
Not even on the radar now:
Mew
Chomp
Mence
I'd really prefer toad, tales and latias all stay in the meta, because I think they do realy good things for it. Same with Nattorei and Gliscor, who are not being talked about (for good reason) despite their omni-present level of dominance.
To Ban [must] (in order . . .):
Inconsistant
Darkrai
Shaymin-S
Don't need to ban possibly but the game definitely would be better without (read: really deserve bans frankly):
Latios (really ought to get banned!!!)
Manaphy (should be banned)
Dory (I'd be happy to see it banned, but . . . :S)
Kingdra (personally don't think but . . . but I can appreciate the anti-sentiment)
borderline:
Deoxys-A (really dunno about deo-n, I'll wait until I actually fight one . . .)
Wobb
Not even on the radar now:
Mew
Chomp
Mence
I'd really prefer toad, tales and latias all stay in the meta, because I think they do realy good things for it. Same with Nattorei and Gliscor, who are not being talked about (for good reason) despite their omni-present level of dominance.
i really only mentioned chomp 1 i had 3 stops to it on the chopping block w/ 3 more on the way in mine + it's status of first non legend banished 2 ubers w/o shadow tag.
+ i wouldn't be suprised if manaphy goes first round. the deoxys a/n (sounds like if 1 goes they both go) r 2 powerful + dory/kingdra will be a couple rounds till they hit the forefront.
Im pretty well in agreement to Kingdra. It's a lot like dory, no real perfect counter and just pretty much fucks shit up.
Well I'd definitely say Dory is easier to counter than Kingdra. The only thing is that when Dory's counters go down, the game ENDS. Where as when Kingdra's counters go down, there's still some room to fight as long as you still have ttar/hippo (if you are using rain, and your Kingdra falls to the enemy's kingdra, gg).
Agreed, my strategy is to stall out and hope he dies to LO.
imo Specs Kingdra is Kingdra's scariest set . . .
Fuck yea. He only really needs Surf to decimate teams (Which is practically Draco Meteor's power with perfect accuracy and no drawback) in the rain.
EDIT:
On the topic of Kingdra, I'm wondering how everyone is EVing their Wobbuffets these days. Last night my Modest Specs Kingdra in the rain hit an opposing Wobb with Hydro Pump for 84% damage. To put it into perspective, Wobbuffet can take the same Hydro Pump from Timid Specs Palkia in the rain. Today my Politoed in the rain (252 SpA Modest, without boosting items), 2HKOed an opposing Wobbuffet in the rain. It really shouldn't do that much.
Are you guys even setting your rating limits? Mine is at 50 almost all the time. If I'm not getting any matches when I really want to play, I increase by another 50. The only way I ever lose that many points in one sitting is if I get impatient and impose no limit at all. You get that instantaneous match, but you're almost guaranteed to face noob405 with his Shedinja team or whatever. You don't know what the fuck he's gonna do, and a good crit or two could send you packing.
I wised up to that shit a long time ago. Don't turn your limit off unless you like to gamble. If you do decide to put your cards on the table, don't get angry when you have to fold.
Also, put Deoxys-A on that "must ban" list please, for the sake of my sanity. Nothing hits as hard as him. Offense can't handle him and stall sure as fuck can't handle him. If it's not Scizor, there's a good chance it's gonna die. And Scizor can't switch in on him to save his life. I don't care how many people misplay him, he's broken. Direct all arguments regarding it to the matches you play with him on your team, because I'm tired of hearing this shit about "priority/Scizor beats him" when he has priority too. Espeed has singlehandedly cost me games. Once I lose that token Steel or whatever, it's GG. All the time. No one should have to go through that.
I've been experiencing pretty much the same thing. Wobbuffet is getting decimated by a good number of Pokemon, most of which were OU in Gen IV, which makes my head spin; how the heck is Wobb suddenly taking so much damage? The only reason I can come up with is that most Pokemon have taken a more offensive turn, but even that doesn't make too much sense. As an example, my 252/252 Bold Wobb took ~40% from Tyranitar's Crunch, which seems quite ridiculous.
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