np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

[New World Order]

I have +2 Adamant Life Orb Excadrill OHKOing max defense Impish Rhyperior.

810 Attack+Life Orb+Earthquake vs. 364 Def+434Hp+Solid Rock 99.54%-117.05%

Guaranteed OHKO with 2 prior damage dealt. Which can be achieved by anything except maybe tackle from like a lvl Pidgey or something.

I use Psypoke for my calcs, so it might be outdated. Someone confirm please.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

I have +2 Adamant Life Orb Excadrill OHKOing max defense Impish Rhyperior.

810 Attack+Life Orb+Earthquake vs. 364 Def+434Hp+Solid Rock 99.54%-117.05%

Guaranteed OHKO with 2 prior damage dealt. Which can be achieved by anything except maybe tackle from like a lvl Pidgey or something.

I use Psypoke for my calcs, so it might be outdated. Someone confirm please.

I only have it doing 76.04% - 90.09% to max HP/max Defense Rhyperior with a +2 Earthquake and Rhyperior's ability being Solid Rock (Excadrill is Adamant)

This is the calculator I'm using: http://masara.byethost15.com/SilverlightDmgCalcTestPage.html

252 +2 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def Rhyperior: 76.04% - 90.09%
2 hits to KO

 

[Jaetheho]

why r u doing rhyperior calcs?
rhyperior is supposed to be a dragonite counter, according to the previous posts -_-

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

why r u doing rhyperior calcs?
rhyperior is supposed to be a dragonite counter, according to the previous posts -_-

Yeah, but some guy said Rhyperior could wall/counter Excadrill iirc.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

I only have it doing 76.04% - 90.09% to max HP/max Defense Rhyperior with a +2 Earthquake and Rhyperior's ability being Solid Rock (Excadrill is Adamant)

This is the calculator I'm using: http://masara.byethost15.com/SilverlightDmgCalcTestPage.html

252 +2 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def Rhyperior: 76.04% - 90.09%
2 hits to KO

Strange, I got 810 Atk vs 364 Def & 434 HP (100 Base Power): 465 - 549 (107.14% - 126.50%) on Cherubi's calculator.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Strange, I got 810 Atk vs 364 Def & 434 HP (100 Base Power): 465 - 549 (107.14% - 126.50%) on Cherubi's calculator.

Did you have Rhyperior's ability as Lightningrod or Solid Rock? New World Order and I were using Solid Rock, iirc.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Did you have Rhyperior's ability as Lightningrod or Solid Rock? New World Order and I were using Solid Rock, iirc.

I used Solid Rock.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

But Azumarill doesn't do anything BUT check Excadrill or Volcarona. Outside of that, it's garbage. So many more Pokemon can do Azumarill's job of checking Excadrill so much better, with Balloon Heatran being just one of them.

Well it also takes down Terrakion and Landorus. Azumarill makes an exellent rain sweeper if it is properly supported. Also its a better Excadrill counter for offensive teams that doesn't wish to rely on the shanky effectiveness a balloon has on countering Excadrill.

FYI, they are both right, 99% - 117% for adamant / life orb, and 76% - 91% for adamant / air balloon.

 

[Tobes]

Can't believe I'm doing this calc...

LO Adamant +2 252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs Solid Rock 252/252 Def Rhyperior: 99.5% - 117.1%

So yeah, by no means a counter.
(ninja'd)

 

[El Guapo]

Ludicolo, Kingdra,and Kabutops are still viable if you give them a rain dance to set up with, and they can go for 8 turns in the rain with great coverage, and that doubled speed,
Outspeeding most things that threaten them
(note that most things that threaten them, they have a move that is going to do either a 2ko or a ohko on them.)

 

[Shurtugal]

Excadrill with Life Orb vs standard Conkeldurr will be 2-3hko on conkeldurr, so he can drain punch for the win.

Life Orb Excadrill rock slide is 5-6hko. On +2 its a 3hko. So GLiscor can easily 1hko it with EQ.

Just off the top of my head, but as long as you are skilled enough to keep them alive excadrill isn't as threatning as everyone says it is.

 

[Drifloon]

Excadrill with Life Orb vs standard Conkeldurr will be 2-3hko on conkeldurr, so he can drain punch for the win.

Life Orb Excadrill rock slide is 5-6hko. On +2 its a 3hko. So GLiscor can easily 1hko it with EQ.

Just off the top of my head, but as long as you are skilled enough to keep them alive excadrill isn't as threatning as everyone says it is.

Sure, it has counters, but make a team with a hyper offensive playstyle. Then get back to me.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

See user X5Dragon

EDIT: Here's the link for you http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3454642

 

[Jaetheho]

air balloon says hi

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Sure, it has counters, but make a team with a hyper offensive playstyle. Then get back to me.

Yeah that is what gets me, a good chunk of sanstorm teams are hyper offensive, so sure your Gliscor will beat that Excadrill, but its going to be fodder for Terrakion or Landorus, meaning your forced for run 2 of the things, this is made worse if your only way of dealing with Excadrill is some balloon pokemon.

 

[Deaga]

Sure, it has counters, but make a team with a hyper offensive playstyle. Then get back to me.

huh, then don't play hyper offense? There's no rule saying that Hyper offensive teams should be viable. Hell, nobody even used that style before DPP.

 

[ginganinja]

See user X5Dragon

EDIT: Here's the link for you http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3454642

Actually, having played that team many times when he was using it, I was able to completely screw him over with Sandstorm as I switched in Tar to Pursuit Starmie, switched out, switched back in and Sand was up (and then incidentally, my LO Adamant Excadrill swept him clean)

I hate to say it but Hyper Offence is really hard to build with Excadrill around as it just outspeeds and Kos pretty much everything unless you back a fuckton of Priority which limits your team diversity.

 

[Jaetheho]

air balloon

 

[badabing]

is not a reliable way to check exca due to rock slide flinches... not to mention you essentially sacrifice a poke defensively to keep it intact.

 

[Tobes]

Your air ballon is popped. What do you do now?

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

is not a reliable way to check exca due to rock slide flinches... not to mention you essentially sacrifice a poke defensively to keep it intact.

Try Ballon Lucario. You can't flinch-hax your way through Inner Focus.
Plus most people would be okay with sacrificing a Pokemon to get their balloon mon in if it meant screwing over the other person's sandstorm team.

 

[-Tsunami-]

Your air ballon is popped. What do you do now?

Agreed. "OMG Lucario is the best check to Excadrill because of AIR BALLOON!" "Oops I accidentally got hit by a Volt Switch from a Forretress...and now my balloon is gone...fuck Excadrill!"
To beat Excadrill, you need counters like Gliscor and / or weather changers; balloon just doesn't cut it.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Agreed. "OMG Lucario is the best check to Excadrill because of AIR BALLOON!" "Oops I accidentally got hit by a Volt Switch from a Forretress...and now my balloon is gone...fuck Excadrill!"
To beat Excadrill, you need counters like Gliscor and / or weather changers; balloon just doesn't cut it.

Who switches in a balloon mon against something that probably has Volt Switch/U-turn?

Yes, Air Balloon is shaky, but it's the only way for HO to deal with Excadrill while retaining offensive momentum. Using Gliscor or weather changers does not retain offensive momentum.

 

[NoUserName]

But, at the same time, it is difficult to bring Excadrill to battle bar Revenge Kill. Against the rare Porygon2 is maybe the best bet or in a double switch. On the Air Balloon set, bringing to a CB EQ, but too risky, due to a bad prediction makes a broken (and useless) balloon.

 

[Gideon]

Agreed. "OMG Lucario is the best check to Excadrill because of AIR BALLOON!" "Oops I accidentally got hit by a Volt Switch from a Forretress...and now my balloon is gone...fuck Excadrill!"
To beat Excadrill, you need counters like Gliscor and / or weather changers; balloon just doesn't cut it.

I don't necessarily agree. With team preview, you can see if the guy has a Excadrill at the beginning and plan accordingly. You can hide the Luke to from attacks and make sure he doesn't get hit.

Also, Excadrill's Rock Slide is not that strong at all. It definitely suffers from it. Stuff not weak to rock that fly can check it. The obvious ones are Skarm and Gliscor who wall it pretty easily, but a Landorus can also take a +2 Rock Slide.

Here is a Calc for 252 Atk Excadrill with an SD Boost against 4 Def Landorus.
810 Atk vs 217 Def & 319 HP (75 Base Power): 201 - 237 (63.01% - 74.29%)

Here is a Calc for 252 Atk Excadrill with an SD Boost against 252 Hp Latias.
810 Atk vs 216 Def & 364 HP (75 Base Power): 202 - 238 (55.49% - 65.38%)

Latias can then use Surf or Hidden Power Fire to finish the Excadrill.


And these calculations assume the Excadrill uses SD on the switch, which most of the time it doesn't. Usually when an Excadrill is sent in it doesn't even use SD unless it comes in on a resisted choice move or something. If it uses Earthquake on the switch. Latias and Landorus can even set up...